SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 9:14:23 GMT -5
The Sox have a hole in the lineup, more than they have a hole on the field. This team desperately needs a clutch cleanup hitter. The only one on the roster is Betts, who leads the team in HRs and RBIs, yet for some reason is batting leadoff. Why??? Couldn't Xander, or Beni, or Pedroia bat leadoff, and have Betts hit 4th? I believe having a solid power bat hitting 4th will help Ramirez, who I believe is suffering from not having a Ortiz hitting in front of him. Ramirez is clearly a no 5 hitter, and needs a good bat hitting in front of him to give him better pitches to look at. Also I do think the Sox have plenty of assets to go get that power bat that this team sorely lacks. I would not be against trading Beni, one of the starting pitchers besides Sale, either Swihart or Vazquez, B. Johnson (who's ready to pitch in the Major Leagues for someone imo), and a couple of prospects to get that cleanup hitter this team so desperately needs. Let's go get Trout! I'm sure that'll never happen, but I do think the Sox have plenty of assets to trade for a player who can cure what ails this team. Plus that kind of bat will also take pressure of Devers when he comes up, as obviously everyone is gonna want to stick him in the cleanup spot. Which could be way too much for a 20 year old to take on in the heat of a pennant race, and possibly the playoffs. I'll give full marks for bold thinking, but Benintendi would have to either get you a third baseman with OBP and power who has at least 2-3 years on his deal, or an OF with the same 2-3 years left, better OBP and more pop than Beni. All those type of third basemen are on playoff contenders right now. Then you'd likely have a platoon of Young and Brentz in LF for the rest of the year then have to go shopping for a LF bat in the off season with the reset. For OF's, the LF with that kind of profile who is not on a contender would be Marcel Ozuna, which would be an intriguing target. But is it worth giving up 5 years of Benintendi for 2.3 years of Ozuna? Most would say no, but if you're really predicated on the "3-year window," then maybe the calculus becomes a bit more favorable to such a deal. However, that still leaves you with a gap at a position of need. Certainly adding Ozuna to the current line-up would give it some pop, but, barring Devers forcing his way onto the MLB roster soon, you're still likely looking at a platoon at 3rd of Marrero/Holt/Lin (I prefer Lin because I am eating the hype with a ladle, and because he's a good glove, can play 3 positions and is a contact hitter). I can say with zero inside information but 99.99% certainty that LAA is not trading Trout. |
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2017 9:28:56 GMT -5
The Red Sox aren't going over the luxury tax limit, so any move they make will be made without putting them over which eliminates Abreu and the fantasy of Trout.
If we're going to fantasize, depending upon what's going on in Miami with ownership, as huge as Giancarlo Stanton's contract is, he'd be a helluva fit in the middle of the lineup, albeit as a converted 1b or a DH for the 2018 season and beyond. Don't know how much talent it would take to acquire with that price tag he carries, but I wouldn't think it would be prohibitive, but his price tag is, but then again, aren't the Red Sox staying under the luxury tax limit so they can be free to go over it in the future? And if they're not in on Harper, Machado, or Donaldson down the road, then who are they going to spend that money on?
You figure that they'll let Porcello walk and allocate that money for Sale? They might have David Price's money freed up if he pitches well enough he wants to escape Boston where he doesn't appear to be happy.
They'll need to load up for Betts - losing Hanley's $ and being out from under Panda will help. I doubt they do for JBJ and if Xander doesn't develop the power or stay an effective SS, I doubt they go all in for Xander as well. I'm sure they'll need money to replace those guys down the road, but at some point the Red Sox are going to need a legit cleanup hitter, somebody with massive HR power and Stanton, if he stays healthy enough - the huge caveat with him, is somebody who would fit that bill, particularly moving from Miami to Boston, but despite that huge price tag, I can't imagine Miami dumping him for nothing.
All I know is when I imagine a lineup with a Betts having an on-year, a maturing Benintendi and Devers surrounding Stanton in the middle and still having JBJ, Xander, and Pedroia, and even Hanley for another season, that's a pretty intriguing lineup.
|
|
|
|
Post by sparkygian on Jul 23, 2017 11:18:00 GMT -5
Oh I know that the Angels aren't trading Trout, besides they've got a slim chance to make the playoffs. I was trying to make a point that this team has more than enough assets to make serious offers for even the biggest of superstars out there. If the Sox try to trade for another impact bat, besides Trout, I don't think the Sox would need to give up as much. This team definitely has a lot of talent that can be useful to getting better in area the team needs right now.
I love Benintendi. At this point of his rookie campaign he's looking like a very good major leaguer, no doubt. I mentioned him as right now his offense is a bit redundant with the other hitters in the Sox lineup. It would take a huge talent like him to really make a serious offer for a big-time power bat that I feel would put this team over the top, and could seriously take on the Astros and Indians in the playoffs. Right now I don't see the Sox having a chance against the Astros, or Dodgers. This team was built to win a world series in the immediate future, as DD mortgaged a lot of this team's future to go for it now. Unless another hitter besides Betts blossoms into a superstar, I think the Sox will be good, but not a complete team. In another year or two, if Devers matures into the player we all think he's capable of being, then I think the Sox will be more complete.
In the meantime I wish Farrell would put Betts into the cleanup spot of the lineup.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,020
|
Post by ericmvan on Jul 23, 2017 14:00:45 GMT -5
Where are you getting your numbers? Baseball Reference and Fan Graph aren't even close to what you are saying. Nevermind you're acting like Marrero is a lefty killer in under 50 ABs. He wasn't good at that in 2015 or 2016, it's too small of a sample size. It literally means nothing. The margin of error in what you are claiming Marrero, Lin and Devers can do is sky high. You get a solid Vet on the cheap and see what Devers can do. All of the defensive numbers are DRS per 1315 innings, which is 150 games' worth of innings. That's the key, because sometimes (and Nunez is a poster child) players get into a lot of games as a defensive replacement. In that case, using games instead of innings->games dilutes the goodness or badness. I'm not saying Marrero is any kind of lefty-killer; I'm saying that he can likely put up a 70 wRC+, which is fairly pathetic, and which would still make him as good overall vs. LHP as Nunez. The odds of a 65 wRC+ guy randomly putting up a 158 (with a .326 Iso!) in 47 PA are very, very small. Over three seasons he's put 53 balls in play in his career versus LHP, with a .358 LD%, which is stupid good (Daniel Murphy leads MLB with .289), and a .352 hard (better than average) and .185 soft (average). He uses the whole field, which is part of why he hasn't sucked. All we're asking him going forward, to make Nunez pointless, is not to be awful. It's true that having Lin, Marrero, and Holt on the roster precludes adding a bat and moving Moreland to the bench, rather than dealing him. (It's also true that we all hope and most of us half-expect Devers to render this moot.) The ideal guy to add would be a LH 1B who would be significantly better than Moreland, and would be a better option than Young in LF versus RHP. Alas, that guy doesn't appear to exist. Lucas Duda is a butcher in LF, and Yonder Alonso has been even worse. If you traded for either, it's very unclear that Moreland would get any PT barring an injury to Hanley or the guy you just dealt for. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 14:05:01 GMT -5
Where are you getting your numbers? Baseball Reference and Fan Graph aren't even close to what you are saying. Nevermind you're acting like Marrero is a lefty killer in under 50 ABs. He wasn't good at that in 2015 or 2016, it's too small of a sample size. It literally means nothing. The margin of error in what you are claiming Marrero, Lin and Devers can do is sky high. You get a solid Vet on the cheap and see what Devers can do. All of the defensive numbers are DRS per 1315 innings, which is 150 games' worth of innings. That's the key, because sometimes (and Nunez is a poster child) players get into a lot of games as a defensive replacement. In that case, using games instead of innings->games dilutes the goodness or badness. I'm not saying Marrero is any kind of lefty-killer; I'm saying that he can likely put up a 70 wRC+, which is fairly pathetic, and which would still make him as good overall vs. LHP as Nunez. The odds of a 65 wRC+ guy randomly putting up a 158 (with a .326 Iso!) in 47 PA are very, very small. Over three seasons he's put 53 balls in play in his career versus LHP, with a .358 LD%, which is stupid good (Daniel Murphy leads MLB with .289), and a .352 hard (better than average) and .185 soft (average). He uses the whole field, which is part of why he hasn't sucked. All we're asking him going forward, to make Nunez pointless, is not to be awful. It's true that having Lin, Marrero, and Holt on the roster precludes adding a bat and moving Moreland to the bench, rather than dealing him. (It's also true that we all hope and most of us half-expect Devers to render this moot.) The ideal guy to add would be a LH 1B who would be significantly better than Moreland, and would be a better option than Young in LF versus RHP. Alas, that guy doesn't appear to exist. Lucas Duda is a butcher in LF, and Yonder Alonso has been even worse. If you traded for either, it's very unclear that Moreland would get any PT barring an injury to Hanley or the guy you just dealt for. Meet Justin Bour www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9744&position=1B |
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2017 14:11:23 GMT -5
All of the defensive numbers are DRS per 1315 innings, which is 150 games' worth of innings. That's the key, because sometimes (and Nunez is a poster child) players get into a lot of games as a defensive replacement. In that case, using games instead of innings->games dilutes the goodness or badness. I'm not saying Marrero is any kind of lefty-killer; I'm saying that he can likely put up a 70 wRC+, which is fairly pathetic, and which would still make him as good overall vs. LHP as Nunez. The odds of a 65 wRC+ guy randomly putting up a 158 (with a .326 Iso!) in 47 PA are very, very small. Over three seasons he's put 53 balls in play in his career versus LHP, with a .358 LD%, which is stupid good (Daniel Murphy leads MLB with .289), and a .352 hard (better than average) and .185 soft (average). He uses the whole field, which is part of why he hasn't sucked. All we're asking him going forward, to make Nunez pointless, is not to be awful. It's true that having Lin, Marrero, and Holt on the roster precludes adding a bat and moving Moreland to the bench, rather than dealing him. (It's also true that we all hope and most of us half-expect Devers to render this moot.) The ideal guy to add would be a LH 1B who would be significantly better than Moreland, and would be a better option than Young in LF versus RHP. Alas, that guy doesn't appear to exist. Lucas Duda is a butcher in LF, and Yonder Alonso has been even worse. If you traded for either, it's very unclear that Moreland would get any PT barring an injury to Hanley or the guy you just dealt for. Meet Justin Bour www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9744&position=1BThe guy who played 6 1/3 innings in LF in AA in 2012? |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 14:15:04 GMT -5
The guy who played 6 1/3 innings in LF in AA in 2012? Sure - Erik was talking about a LH hitter to play first. I assumed he was talking about a better hitter than Young vs. LHP as a DH. Then again, there's Votto, who does the same thing at a higher OBP and better 1st base D. Only for bazillions more dollars. |
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 23, 2017 14:29:35 GMT -5
I don't get why we would want to trade Benintendi. The guy is a smart hitter who probably even gets better. Solid defense and base running. Some pop and OBP. Isn't he the kind of guy we want on this team? We don't have a perfect team ever. I say use Lin for now, wait for Devers in September and sign this guy next Winter (Eric Hosmer ): mlbfarm.com/player.php?player_id=543333&position=1B |
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Jul 23, 2017 14:53:11 GMT -5
I think Matt Adams would be a cheaper alternative to Bour and the Braves more than likely will deal him.
|
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 23, 2017 17:13:55 GMT -5
SO I guess we won't be trading for a 3B.....
|
|
|
|
Post by bnich on Jul 23, 2017 17:15:03 GMT -5
It's Devers time!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2017 17:22:01 GMT -5
SO I guess we won't be trading for a 3B..... Good. There's nothing available who is guaranteed to be better than Devers. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 23, 2017 17:49:35 GMT -5
Where are you getting your numbers? Baseball Reference and Fan Graph aren't even close to what you are saying. Nevermind you're acting like Marrero is a lefty killer in under 50 ABs. He wasn't good at that in 2015 or 2016, it's too small of a sample size. It literally means nothing. The margin of error in what you are claiming Marrero, Lin and Devers can do is sky high. You get a solid Vet on the cheap and see what Devers can do. All of the defensive numbers are DRS per 1315 innings, which is 150 games' worth of innings. That's the key, because sometimes (and Nunez is a poster child) players get into a lot of games as a defensive replacement. In that case, using games instead of innings->games dilutes the goodness or badness. I'm not saying Marrero is any kind of lefty-killer; I'm saying that he can likely put up a 70 wRC+, which is fairly pathetic, and which would still make him as good overall vs. LHP as Nunez. The odds of a 65 wRC+ guy randomly putting up a 158 (with a .326 Iso!) in 47 PA are very, very small. Over three seasons he's put 53 balls in play in his career versus LHP, with a .358 LD%, which is stupid good (Daniel Murphy leads MLB with .289), and a .352 hard (better than average) and .185 soft (average). He uses the whole field, which is part of why he hasn't sucked. All we're asking him going forward, to make Nunez pointless, is not to be awful. It's true that having Lin, Marrero, and Holt on the roster precludes adding a bat and moving Moreland to the bench, rather than dealing him. (It's also true that we all hope and most of us half-expect Devers to render this moot.) The ideal guy to add would be a LH 1B who would be significantly better than Moreland, and would be a better option than Young in LF versus RHP. Alas, that guy doesn't appear to exist. Lucas Duda is a butcher in LF, and Yonder Alonso has been even worse. If you traded for either, it's very unclear that Moreland would get any PT barring an injury to Hanley or the guy you just dealt for. Where do the numbers come from? From what you are using it seems it Baseball Reference. Thing is those numbers are per 1200 innings and 135 games, not what you are claiming. They also mean almost nothing as defensive numbers in a small sample size are never good at predicting future performances with high accuracy. You know this. With Marrero we have no other info so ok, but with Nunez we have 240 games. His career numbers are -4 DRS per 135 games or 1200 innings. Thing is neither player will come even close to those totals. Yet you have both almost maxed out to show this big huge gap in D. Nunez has played 48 games at 3B and started 44 of them. So how is Nunez a poster child for being a defensive replacement ? That just makes no sense, he's more of a pinch hitter, but he has played in almost all there games. It's more likely Nunez is a -1 to -2 DRS guy to finish out the season, not a -3 to -4 like you claim. If you get him on the cheap, he is a great Vet to pair with Devers. Lets Holt be a super utility guy again. Also Nunez would be a big upgrade over Marrero, Lin or Holt this Year with his bat as a pinch hitter if Devers just does awesome. You keep acting like Marrero has hit lefties well for 3 years, but he hasn't. Only this year. It's such a small sample size it means nothing. You always do this, read way to much into very small sample sizes. Your track record on this is well documented and proves why people don't take small sample sizes that are way out of norm for the player as anything more than a hot streak. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 20:09:55 GMT -5
I don't get why we would want to trade Benintendi. The guy is a smart hitter who probably even gets better. Solid defense and base running. Some pop and OBP. Isn't he the kind of guy we want on this team? We don't have a perfect team ever. I say use Lin for now, wait for Devers in September and sign this guy next Winter (Eric Hosmer ): mlbfarm.com/player.php?player_id=543333&position=1BI don't want to, but I would trade one of Pomeranz or Erod if I thought it could get them a near elite, controllable first baseman (like Bour). |
|
|
|
Post by oilcan73 on Jul 24, 2017 3:19:31 GMT -5
I'm glad that they are giving Devers a shot at 3B rather than trading for one of the less than exciting name being mentioned. Trading for Lowrie or Nunez is NOT going to fix the lack of run-scoring as they sit in the 9 hole. If DD really wants to fix the issue he needs to tell Farrell to move Betts to the 3 spot and trade for a big-hitting 1B/DH to hit 4th and move Moreland to the bench as a LH pinch-hitter and late-game defensive replacement. The problem is there doesn't seem to be many big hitters on the market, so what they have is what they might be heading down the stretch with. I am starting to think the Yankees are the more well rounded team that is going to win the division.
|
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 24, 2017 5:32:58 GMT -5
I'm still holding out hope for Alonso with Moreland going to the A's as part of the package. That shouldn't take a huge haul to give up. Maybe a Lin or two or three.
I don't see other teams looking for a first base only first baseman.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jul 24, 2017 6:17:07 GMT -5
I don't get why we would want to trade Benintendi. The guy is a smart hitter who probably even gets better. Solid defense and base running. Some pop and OBP. Isn't he the kind of guy we want on this team? We don't have a perfect team ever. I say use Lin for now, wait for Devers in September and sign this guy next Winter (Eric Hosmer ): mlbfarm.com/player.php?player_id=543333&position=1BI don't want to, but I would trade one of Pomeranz or Erod if I thought it could get them a near elite, controllable first baseman (like Bour). I think you're way over-rating the 29 year old Bour. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jul 24, 2017 6:27:51 GMT -5
Regarding Stanton; he's borderline unreadable with that contract. I'll stop short of saying no one will give up anything of value for that because there are dumb trades made all the time, but that is a salary dump type contract. He's been healthy this year and he's only 27, but his games played for his career going backwards starting with 2016 are: 119, 74, 145, 116, 123, 150, 153.
Worse than that is the fact that this is his remaining contract:
10 years/ 295m (2018-2027 his age 28-37 season)
Baseball is trending younger and betting on a guy to stay healthy in his 30s who hasn't in his 20s is a bad bet.
The Marlins are trying to sell; he gets expensive next year so a team willing to take on the money may be able to get him for basically just that.
|
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jul 24, 2017 7:19:57 GMT -5
There are rumblings in N.Y. that a Stanton acquisition is at least being explored.
|
|
|
|
Post by oilcan73 on Jul 24, 2017 7:32:27 GMT -5
Man, can you imagine the 2-3-4 punch of Sanchez, Judge and Stanton? Ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by oilcan73 on Jul 24, 2017 7:34:36 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what do people think it would take to get Stanton to Fenway? I can't imagine giving up much after taking on that monstrosity of a contract. Never gonna happen, but he would mash in Fenway.
|
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 24, 2017 7:49:49 GMT -5
There are rumblings in N.Y. that a Stanton acquisition is at least being explored. that was denied by MIA |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,533
|
Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2017 8:14:32 GMT -5
I'm still holding out hope for Alonso with Moreland going to the A's as part of the package. That shouldn't take a huge haul to give up. Maybe a Lin or two or three. I don't see other teams looking for a first base only first baseman. I would like this, but I don't know if Oakland would even have any use for Moreland if nobody is looking for 1B types anyway. Alonso is having a monster year and appears to have completely changed as a hitter. I wouldn't mind giving him a 3 year deal or something of that nature, and his short track record won't get him all too much money. However, I think I'd rather keep lin than give him up for 2 months of Alonso. I think he's Holt's super UTIL replacement. |
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Jul 24, 2017 9:04:06 GMT -5
A power hitting 1st baseman would be nice. Joey Votto? Cincinnati is going nowhere this season. Moreland surprised early in the season. Now he's a hole. It would probably take a Chavis to get him along with a pitcher or two. That trade could solve a lot of problems. One week to go to the trading deadline. Should be a fun week.
|
|
|
|
Post by mandelbro on Jul 24, 2017 9:11:56 GMT -5
A power hitting 1st baseman would be nice. Joey Votto? Cincinnati is going nowhere this season. Moreland surprised early in the season. Now he's a hole. It would probably take a Chavis to get him along with a pitcher or two. That trade could solve a lot of problems. One week to go to the trading deadline. Should be a fun week. Votto is a great player, but his contract is an albatross. Unless you have a really high tolerance for paying sunk cost (i.e. the Dodgers) he's not worth it. |
|
|
