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2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
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Post by jbuttah on Jul 25, 2017 8:54:46 GMT -5
Yikes!! In that case, DD has really painted this team into a corner! The Sox are out of serious moves, other than pinning their hopes on a 20 year old who's never even played in the Big Leagues, let alone the playoffs. I pray that he doesn't feel like he needs to be the one to bail this team out. That could possibly be devastating to his development. If ownership and management are more focused on avoiding financial penalties, and the potential loss of signing long-shot IFAs by going over the salary structure, than we're forced to punt the season away, unless a couple of players get red-hot offensively, and somebody else besides Sale steps up to be a shut-down starting pitcher. Cherinton did most of the painting with Pablo and Hanley (and a few other gems). Dombrowski just did the trim work and got rid of most of the doors (prospects) that get you outof the corner. Those 2 signings were so odd, especially coming on the heels of the relief provided by being able to trade away Crawford and Beckett.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 25, 2017 10:54:22 GMT -5
There hasn't been one name mentioned yet as a trade candidate who is going to be the answer to the offensive woes. DD might as well stand pat and finish off the season with what they have. How much better is Nunez or Lowrie really going to make them, when you still have a lineup full of guys struggling. Even if they are able to make the playoffs they are going to get shut down every game when they have to face top starters each game. Going into 2018, they better hope for some significant improvement out of their young hitters and pray the Devers/Travis are the real deal. If Mitch Moreland continues to put up a 486 OPS (24 wRC+) because he's trying to hit with a broken toe, then there are any number of 1B who would provide a substantial upgrade. July deals to upgrade a slightly subpar position seldom make a difference, or any sense. You deal to fix black holes. Right now 1B is a black hole, and because it's injury-based, there's no assurance it starts emitting light any time soon. It's also unfilled for next year. This offensive swoon seems to have been triggered by injuries to Moreland and then Xander. We've scored 53 runs in the last 17 games, which is 2.9 R/9 innings. That swoon started July 5, the day before Xander got his hand whacked by a pitch. In the previous 17 games we had averaged exactly 6.0. People forget that. Xander was hitting .308 / .363 / .455 when he got hurt. Since then, he's hit .167 / .222 / .214. His wRC+ is down 103 points, exactly the same as Moreland. In Xander's case, his strike zone judgment seems unchanged but he's completely stopped hitting the ball hard. He has three line drives in his 10 starts since the HBP. GdHnd BdHnd PA 342 45 BA .308 .167 OBP .363 .222 SA .455 .214 wRC+ 113 10 K .184 .178 BB .070 .067 BABIP .367 .206 HR/FB .087 .000 Hard .328 .147 LD .216 .088 GB .508 .471 PU .052 .030 Pull .452 .324 Opp .240 .265 wRC+ during the swoon: 144 Pedroia 89 Hanley 83 Betts 54 Lin 46 Leon 34 Bogaerts 33 JBJ 24 Young 18 Benintendi 10 Marrero -10 Moreland -47 Vazquez You have to assume they've been facing very good pitching. Pedey's been white hot, Hanley OK (his numbers at 1B are much worse than at DH), Mookie slumping a little, JBJ, Benny, and CV mired in deep slumps, and Moreland and X are hurt.
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Post by jbuttah on Jul 25, 2017 11:14:53 GMT -5
Didn't think Travis Shaw would have the kind of year he's having, but trading him away could single-handedly cost the Sox a playoff spot.
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Post by oilcan73 on Jul 25, 2017 16:07:14 GMT -5
There hasn't been one name mentioned yet as a trade candidate who is going to be the answer to the offensive woes. DD might as well stand pat and finish off the season with what they have. How much better is Nunez or Lowrie really going to make them, when you still have a lineup full of guys struggling. Even if they are able to make the playoffs they are going to get shut down every game when they have to face top starters each game. Going into 2018, they better hope for some significant improvement out of their young hitters and pray the Devers/Travis are the real deal. If Mitch Moreland continues to put up a 486 OPS (24 wRC+) because he's trying to hit with a broken toe, then there are any number of 1B who would provide a substantial upgrade. July deals to upgrade a slightly subpar position seldom make a difference, or any sense. You deal to fix black holes. Right now 1B is a black hole, and because it's injury-based, there's no assurance it starts emitting light any time soon. It's also unfilled for next year. This offensive swoon seems to have been triggered by injuries to Moreland and then Xander. We've scored 53 runs in the last 17 games, which is 2.9 R/9 innings. That swoon started July 5, the day before Xander got his hand whacked by a pitch. In the previous 17 games we had averaged exactly 6.0. People forget that. Xander was hitting .308 / .363 / .455 when he got hurt. Since then, he's hit .167 / .222 / .214. His wRC+ is down 103 points, exactly the same as Moreland. In Xander's case, his strike zone judgment seems unchanged but he's completely stopped hitting the ball hard. He has three line drives in his 10 starts since the HBP. GdHnd BdHnd PA 342 45 BA .308 .167 OBP .363 .222 SA .455 .214 wRC+ 113 10 K .184 .178 BB .070 .067 BABIP .367 .206 HR/FB .087 .000 Hard .328 .147 LD .216 .088 GB .508 .471 PU .052 .030 Pull .452 .324 Opp .240 .265 wRC+ during the swoon: 144 Pedroia 89 Hanley 83 Betts 54 Lin 46 Leon 34 Bogaerts 33 JBJ 24 Young 18 Benintendi 10 Marrero -10 Moreland -47 Vazquez You have to assume they've been facing very good pitching. Pedey's been white hot, Hanley OK (his numbers at 1B are much worse than at DH), Mookie slumping a little, JBJ, Benny, and CV mired in deep slumps, and Moreland and X are hurt. Still not seeing/hearing any names which inspire any confidence in this becoming a consistent run-scoring lineup. Save
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Post by geostorm on Jul 25, 2017 17:34:48 GMT -5
What about adding RPs...anyone know a bit more on this guy, who is apparently available, and wouldn't seem to profile as too costly -
"After signing a minor league deal with a $900K base salary this offseason, the 31-year-old Swarzak has broken out with the best season of his career. In 48 1/3 innings with the South Siders, he’s averaged 9.7 K/9 against 2.4 BB/9 with a 40.5 percent ground-ball rate en route to a 2.23 ERA. The former second-round pick is averaging 94.5 mph on his heater this year and has posted a 14 percent swinging-strike rate that dwarfs his previous career-high of 10.6 percent. Swarzak’s 71.9 percent contact rate sits nearly six percentage points below the league average of 77.5 percent.
Swarzak picked up the first save of his career in yesterday’s win over the Cubs, though his stint as the de facto closer in Chicago may not last all that long, as he’s a free agent at season’s end and is widely expected to be traded. The Brewers are known to be on the lookout for bullpen help, and Swarzak’s status as a rental and lack of a dominant track record should make him a reasonably affordable piece to acquire via trade, even with this year’s exceptional results."
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Post by jdb on Jul 25, 2017 17:37:25 GMT -5
I definitely think we'll get a RP. I'd kick the tires on a Duda and J Blevins (LH) package from NYM. I'm hopeful Workman is for real and we get Smith in a few weeks.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 25, 2017 17:56:12 GMT -5
I definitely think we'll get a RP. I'd kick the tires on a Duda and J Blevins (LH) package from NYM. I'm hopeful Workman is for real and we get Smith in a few weeks. Evergreen comment.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2017 18:27:28 GMT -5
I definitely think we'll get a RP. I'd kick the tires on a Duda and J Blevins (LH) package from NYM. I'm hopeful Workman is for real and we get Smith in a few weeks. Evergreen comment. Meanwhile according to MLBTradeRumors.com the Yankees are progressing towards a deal with Oakland that would get them Yonder Alonso and Sonny Gray without costing them Torres, C. Frazier, Sheffield, or Chance Adams. Apparently the A's like young OF Estevan Florial and Jorge Mateo would be part of that deal. I imagine the Yanks would have to add some serious pitching in a deal like that, too. Not that Gray is a superstar, but if the Yankees swing that deal that gives them four viable starters for the post-season, a fantastic powerful lineup and a strong deep bullpen. That would put even more pressure on Dombrowski. Frankly Alonso is the only hitter available worth picking up at this point although I guess you could add Jay Bruce as a DH if Hanley played 1b, but that could cause more problems that it could solve.
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Post by geostorm on Jul 25, 2017 18:31:57 GMT -5
What about adding RPs...anyone know a bit more on this guy, who is apparently available, and wouldn't seem to profile as too costly - "After signing a minor league deal with a $900K base salary this offseason, the 31-year-old Swarzak has broken out with the best season of his career. In 48 1/3 innings with the South Siders, he’s averaged 9.7 K/9 against 2.4 BB/9 with a 40.5 percent ground-ball rate en route to a 2.23 ERA. The former second-round pick is averaging 94.5 mph on his heater this year and has posted a 14 percent swinging-strike rate that dwarfs his previous career-high of 10.6 percent. Swarzak’s 71.9 percent contact rate sits nearly six percentage points below the league average of 77.5 percent. Swarzak picked up the first save of his career in yesterday’s win over the Cubs, though his stint as the de facto closer in Chicago may not last all that long, as he’s a free agent at season’s end and is widely expected to be traded. The Brewers are known to be on the lookout for bullpen help, and Swarzak’s status as a rental and lack of a dominant track record should make him a reasonably affordable piece to acquire via trade, even with this year’s exceptional results." Never mind Dan Hayes of CSN Chicago reports (via Twitter) that the Brewers are sending outfield prospect Ryan Cordell to the White Sox in exchange for Swarzak. Cordell spent less than a full season in the Brewers’ system, as he’d previously been acquired as the player to be named later in last summer’s Jonathan Lucroy/Jeremy Jeffress trade with the Rangers.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 25, 2017 23:25:55 GMT -5
Rosenthal
Rosenthal is reporting Nunez to the Sox. Ken RosenthalVerified account @ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Source: Eduardo Nunez to #RedSox.
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Post by shoccoe on Jul 25, 2017 23:26:28 GMT -5
Lots of chatter Eduardo Nunez has been traded possibly/probably to the RedSox. Guess we will see shortly.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 25, 2017 23:38:05 GMT -5
NightengaleBob NightengaleVerified account @bnightengale 4m4 minutes ago The #SFGiants receive two minor league pitchers from #Redsox for Nunez Alex Speier @alexspeier 3m3 minutes ago More Alex Speier Retweeted The Boston Globe The Red Sox are sending RHP Shaun Anderson (3.99 ERA in HiA Salem) and 17-yr-old RHP Gregory Santos (0.90 ERA in 30 IP in the DSL) to SF.
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Post by oilcan73 on Jul 26, 2017 0:43:37 GMT -5
Meanwhile, the Yankees are discussing a trade with Oakland for Gray and Alonso, running their trade haul to 5 impact players in the month of July. The Sox big move is to bring in Nunez. Fighting for a wild card spot any day now once the Yankees go past.
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Post by jdb on Jul 26, 2017 6:57:34 GMT -5
So this puts us about $5.5ish under the luxury tax correct? I could see a bullpen move but I think this may take us out of the LHH 1B market. It gives us some flexibility and Devers could get some DH time when Hanleys at 1B.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2017 7:25:53 GMT -5
Rosenthal
Rosenthal is reporting Nunez to the Sox. Ken RosenthalVerified account @ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Source: Eduardo Nunez to #RedSox. Yeah, that'll fix it.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 26, 2017 7:38:51 GMT -5
I am a little confused at to what some posters on here want the Red Sox to do this deadline. There is a mini meltdown when they trade top prospects and there is now a meltdown that they aren't being linked to any of the big names. Is Eduardo Nunez a sexy player? No, but he is at least an average player that will help them down the stretch. Also everyone acting like the Yankees have already acquired Alonso and Gray, last I checked that deal has not been made yet so why act like it is a done deal?
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2017 9:14:06 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2017 9:30:37 GMT -5
In other news. Screw fox sports for forcing Rosenthal to write all his articles on Facebook. Im sure that going video only will be a Huge success for them.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 26, 2017 9:54:49 GMT -5
I would be happy with Bruce or Alonso. They could DL Moreland with his toe injury and bring him back when the roster expands, giving them a nice PH vs RHP in the playoffs.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 26, 2017 10:47:53 GMT -5
Matt Barnes was ridiculously good again last night: six batters, six outs; two strikeouts, four ground balls (one for a 1B, one for a GDP).
Since changing his delivery he's faced 22 LHB and has given up 3 singles and 3 BB while fanning 9, for .158 / .273 / .158. The ten guys who put the ball in play: 7 GB, 2 OF FB, 1 LD.
He's faced 34 RHB (one of whom sacrificed) and gotten 33 outs. He's given up 3 singles and 2 walks while fanning 8, for .097 / .152 / .097. The 23 guys who put the ball in play : 17 GB (including 4 GDP), 2 LD, 3 OF FB, 1 PU.
If they trade for a RHR who can get ground balls, the supposed bullpen need (hey, Ken Rosenthal!), I'll hurl objects.
What they need is a LHR who can pair with Kelly in the 7th (or the 6th if Smith comes back and is his old self). Kelly shows no signs of getting LHB out consistently, but he's dominated RHB.
Kimbrel Barnes Kelly LHR X Smith or Hembree (who is traded if everyone gets healthy simultaneously) Abad Boyer
ml depth: Workman (who'll often be on the roster unless Smith come back), Scott, Beeks, Velazquez, Maddox, Taylor ...
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 26, 2017 12:12:42 GMT -5
Adding a bat.
I strongly disagree with the media notion that we can add an OF or DH because Hanley can play 1B. That's a nice flexibility option, but there are four actual 1B on the market who would be as better defensively than Hanley's -6 R/150, and would keep him at DH where he is once again, as always, hitting much better than at 1B.
The guy that might be the best fit has maybe gotten the least ink -- Lucas Duda. Unlike Smoak, Alonso, and Bour, he's a good defender. Unlike Smoak, Alonso, and Adams, he's not having a breakout season, so there's less downside. Here's wRC+ this year, career, and ROS projection. The last number is DRS career per 150 games.
127, 122, 118 Duda (+4) FA 152, 102, 116 Smoak (-3) 1/$4.1M + $6M option 139, 106, 110 Alonso (+4 but -9 the last 2 years, which is what scouts are seeing) FA 133, 121, 111 Bour (-4) 3 YRS 125, 112, 103 Adams (+6) 1 YR (125 = with Braves)
Smoak would cost more as an intra-division guy, Bour even more given the 3 years of control. Alonso's defense is a deal-breaker for me.
All is not rosy with Duda, however. He's struggled in his career in challenge situations, so he's losing value when he joins a better-hitting lineup, and he's feasted in low leverage, which suggests that he's fattened his numbers against subpar pitching. The more I think about those two factors, the less desirable he seems (yes, I'm running the numbers as I type this up!)
Bour is neutral in that regard, and has been terrific with RISP and very good in high leverage.
Adams has good leverage splits and has thrived in challenge situations.
What I don't know and won't look into, at least not today: whether deep metrics indicate Adams has really figured something out with the Braves, and how each of these three guys would ft in Fenway.
Edit: Smoak, in his career, has had awful challenge / pitch-around splits, which is to say he's suffered from protection. I have no idea if that's still true. His leverage splits are solid.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2017 12:17:59 GMT -5
Adding a bat. I strongly disagree with the media notion that we can add an OF or DH because Hanley can play 1B. That's a nice flexibility option, but there are four actual 1B on the market who would be as better defensively than Hanley's -6 R/150, and would keep him at DH where he is once again, as always, hitting much better than at 1B. The guy that might be the best fit has maybe gotten the least ink -- Lucas Duda. Unlike Smoak, Alonso, and Bour, he's a good defender. Unlike Smoak, Alonso, and Adams, he's not having a breakout season, so there's less downside. Here's wRC+ this year, career, and ROS projection. The last number is DRS career per 150 games. 127, 122, 118 Duda (+4) FA152, 102, 116 Smoak (-3) 1/$4.1M + $6M option139, 106, 110 Alonso (+4 but -9 the last 2 years, which is what scouts are seeing) FA133, 121, 111 Bour (-4) 3 YRS125, 112, 103 Adams (+6) 1 YR (125 = with Braves) Smoak would cost more as an intra-division guy, Bour even more given the 3 years of control. Alonso's defense is a deal-breaker for me. All is not rosy with Duda, however. He's struggled in his career in challenge situations, so he's losing value when he joins a better-hitting lineup, and he's feasted in low leverage, which suggests that he's fattened his numbers against subpar pitching. The more I think about those two factors, the less desirable he seems (yes, I'm running the numbers as I type this up!) Bour is neutral in that regard, and has been terrific with RISP and very good in high leverage. Adams has good leverage splits and has thrived in challenge situations. What I don't know and won't look into, at least not today: whether deep metrics indicate Adams has really figured something out with the Braves, and how each of these three guys would ft in Fenway. Thanks for this Eric!
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Post by jdb on Jul 26, 2017 12:41:11 GMT -5
I agree with Eric's last few posts and to me that's why the Mets match up since Blevins is a quality LHP. We would need some money paid down to get both he and Duda though.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2017 12:43:16 GMT -5
I agree with Eric's last few posts and to me that's why the Mets match up since Blevins is a quality LHP. We would need some money paid down to get both he and Duda though. I agree too, which is why I think why the Sox should work a deal for Bour using a significant asset.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 26, 2017 12:44:36 GMT -5
Matt Adams's batted bat profile hasn't changed at all, vertically. He's just getting much better results on FB. This compares his two off years in StL plus the start of this season, to Atlanta.
wOBA wOBA FB .449 .408 .445 .603 LD .193 .658 .206 .708 GB .358 .214 .348 .146 This doesn't mean he hasn't fixed a flaw in mechanics, but it does mean that he hasn't changed his swing path.
Eyeballing spray charts, he may be pulling the ball more (being shifted against more might explain the worse results on GB, too). So he loses value in Femway.
There's no perfect fit here at all, alas.
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