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2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 26, 2017 12:50:03 GMT -5
I agree with Eric's last few posts and to me that's why the Mets match up since Blevins is a quality LHP. We would need some money paid down to get both he and Duda though. I agree too, which is why I think why the Sox should work a deal for Bour using a significant asset. That might be the best option. Probably, Travis is a piece, but you'd need more. They'll mention Chavis and Mata. If the price is too steep, I'd be happy to get Adams for cheap and hope he stays hot. I haven't looked at LHR yet and if I do ... well, read my tagline! |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 26, 2017 14:09:55 GMT -5
Bour has 3 years until free agency. Getting him for Chavis+ would probably be a steal. He's probably worth Groome, but it doesn't make sense for us to give him up IMO.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2017 14:46:07 GMT -5
I agree too, which is why I think why the Sox should work a deal for Bour using a significant asset. That might be the best option. Probably, Travis is a piece, but you'd need more. They'll mention Chavis and Mata. If the price is too steep, I'd be happy to get Adams for cheap and hope he stays hot. I haven't looked at LHR yet and if I do ... well, read my tagline! I'm of the mind that we don't know what next year will bring and if you're this close, you need to go for it. As such I actually would go as far as offering Erod straight up, which would hurt (if Miami went for it), but: Postives 1) It gets you a player who is near elite at first base, a position of need, who is also controllable for next three years and allows the lux tax re-set. 2) Miami gets a #3/2A-ish starter with control. That he's a Latino may be a bonus for their marketing under new ownership deal. 3) Allows the Sox to purse this year's playoffs with 4 quality starters, and with the reset, they can go get one more starter if they want in the off season such as Alex Cobb, Jamie Garcia, etc or trade for one, or go with Johnson/Wright/Velazquez. Meanwhile serves the "3 year window" without adding significant costs. Negatives 1) you're losing a cheap starter who is a 3-type guy who, if healthy could be a 2/2A and on some days a 1. 2) your #5 for the rest of the year is some combination of Hector Velazquez/Brian Johnson/Doug Fister. |
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Post by bnich on Jul 26, 2017 16:36:11 GMT -5
Bour was just placed on the DL yesterday.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 26, 2017 17:05:05 GMT -5
Bour was just placed on the DL yesterday. Ouch. Missed that. Oblique strain, out 3 to 4 weeks. Pretty much takes him out of the picture. Meanwhile, Matt Adams' great run with Atlanta is due entirely to unprecedented huge success against curves, changes, and cutters. He's been less good vs. FB that usual. The slider is still his nemesis, and he's been just a bit better with that. Overpaying for Smoak? |
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2017 18:27:50 GMT -5
Bour was just placed on the DL yesterday. Crap |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 26, 2017 18:50:01 GMT -5
Bour was just placed on the DL yesterday. Ouch. Missed that. Oblique strain, out 3 to 4 weeks. Pretty much takes him out of the picture. Meanwhile, Matt Adams' great run with Atlanta is due entirely to unprecedented huge success against curves, changes, and cutters. He's been less good vs. FB that usual. The slider is still his nemesis, and he's been just a bit better with that. Overpaying for Smoak? Smoak's value is really hard to gauge because of his short track record, but with his contract being so cheap, Toronto has no reason to trade him without an overpay. It would hurt badly to send a potential star their way for Smoak to revert back to a pumpkin. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 26, 2017 20:58:36 GMT -5
Ouch. Missed that. Oblique strain, out 3 to 4 weeks. Pretty much takes him out of the picture. Meanwhile, Matt Adams' great run with Atlanta is due entirely to unprecedented huge success against curves, changes, and cutters. He's been less good vs. FB that usual. The slider is still his nemesis, and he's been just a bit better with that. Overpaying for Smoak? Smoak's value is really hard to gauge because of his short track record, but with his contract being so cheap, Toronto has no reason to trade him without an overpay. It would hurt badly to send a potential star their way for Smoak to revert back to a pumpkin. Well, you'd certainly do a lot of deep analysis to figure out to what degree he's a different hitter, in order to judge his value. And I will now try to resist doing any of that! Edit: Especially since Jeff Sullivan did the work already. He's learned which pitches to swing at with two strikes and has gone from subpar to great. |
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 26, 2017 21:48:09 GMT -5
Neshek won't be shipping up to Boston
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 26, 2017 21:55:14 GMT -5
Dang I liked him.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 26, 2017 23:04:15 GMT -5
I was hoping the Sox would wind up with Neshek, just like I was hoping for Frazier.
I would guess now the Sox will be going hard after Addison Reed or Justin Wilson. I would think Wilson would be expensive to obtain. I imagine Shawayrn or maybe even Mata would wind up dealt. I don't want to see that happen. I'd think Reed would be a lot cheaper to obtain, but I've read that Terry Collins has been working him very hard and he's been going multiple innings at times.
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Post by tizzle on Jul 27, 2017 0:01:17 GMT -5
I really didn't want us to pay the price for Neshek, because I remember how Farrell underused Zeigler, and figured we'd see more of the same.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2017 1:39:26 GMT -5
The Sox have enough right handed relievers to fill an entire bullpen.
Workman
Kimbrel
Smith
Kelly
Boyer
Barnes
Hembree
They probably just need a left handed reliever to fill one more role that they currently don't have. Neshek isn't really needed in this bullpen.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2017 8:56:05 GMT -5
The Sox have enough right handed relievers to fill an entire bullpen. Workman Kimbrel Smith Kelly Boyer Barnes Hembree They probably just need a left handed reliever to fill one more role that they currently don't have. Neshek isn't really needed in this bullpen. Boyer needs to go. Kelly is injured. Smith hasn't pitched at all this year. Hembree is a great depth piece, but not sure I want him pitching in postseason. We need another reliever, a guy to pencil in behind Kimbrel. Thus pushing Barnes and Kelly down an inning in postseason. That would be a very good pen. Abad has been his normal great self against lefties. Come playoffs I would guess Pomeranz goes to pen. All reports have use linked to RHR and it makes sense. |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 27, 2017 9:07:45 GMT -5
The Sox have enough right handed relievers to fill an entire bullpen. Workman Kimbrel Smith Kelly Boyer Barnes Hembree They probably just need a left handed reliever to fill one more role that they currently don't have. Neshek isn't really needed in this bullpen. . Kelly is injured. Smith hasn't pitched at all this year. Hembree is a great depth piece, but not sure I want him pitching in postseason. We need another reliever, a guy to pencil in behind Kimbrel. Thus pushing Barnes and Kelly down an inning in postseason. That would be a very good pen. Abad has been his normal great self against lefties. Come playoffs I would guess Pomeranz goes to pen. All reports have use linked to RHR and it makes sense. Boyer has been pitching pretty effectively so why does he have to go? I guess if they can upgrade from him then sure he can go but just cutting him would seem a bad move. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 27, 2017 9:20:33 GMT -5
Boyer wouldn't be the guy to go if they acquired a Neshek type so I don't really get this.
Not trading for Neshek because you don't like the price is fine. Not trading for Neshek because of Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree and the amorphous presence of a potential comeback of Carson Smith? Nah.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2017 9:22:03 GMT -5
Boyer needs to go. Kelly is injured. Smith hasn't pitched at all this year. Hembree is a great depth piece, but not sure I want him pitching in postseason. We need another reliever, a guy to pencil in behind Kimbrel. Thus pushing Barnes and Kelly down an inning in postseason. That would be a very good pen. Abad has been his normal great self against lefties. Come playoffs I would guess Pomeranz goes to pen. All reports have use linked to RHR and it makes sense. Boyer has been pitching pretty effectively so why does he have to go? I guess if they can upgrade from him then sure he can go but just cutting him would seem a bad move. We need better. Simple. He gets hit a ton and doesn't strikeout a ton of guys. You really want him and his 1.4 plus WHIP pitching when it matters? |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 27, 2017 9:24:49 GMT -5
Do I want Boyer pitching in high leverage situations? No, do I think he is more than capable of handling low to mid leverage situations? Yes I do.
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Post by mattpicard on Jul 27, 2017 9:48:51 GMT -5
Just noticed Boyer's K/9 was 3.5 in 66 IP last season. That's the lowest season K/9 by a reliever since 2010, and the 11th lowest since 2000. He's more than doubled it this season, to 7.5.
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 27, 2017 10:03:47 GMT -5
Just noticed Boyer's K/9 was 3.5 in 66 IP last season. That's the lowest season K/9 by a reliever since 2010, and the 11th lowest since 2000. He's more than doubled it this season, to 7.5. If he can double it again then we're in good shape! |
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Post by mannofsteele on Jul 27, 2017 10:47:16 GMT -5
I know that the Sox have been stung so consistently on trading for relievers recently, but the bullpen is such a concern.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 27, 2017 11:11:54 GMT -5
The Sox have enough right handed relievers to fill an entire bullpen. Workman Kimbrel Smith Kelly Boyer Barnes Hembree They probably just need a left handed reliever to fill one more role that they currently don't have. Neshek isn't really needed in this bullpen. There is one pitcher that I would rather have than Neshek on that list. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 27, 2017 11:17:36 GMT -5
Just noticed Boyer's K/9 was 3.5 in 66 IP last season. That's the lowest season K/9 by a reliever since 2010, and the 11th lowest since 2000. He's more than doubled it this season, to 7.5. If he can double it again then we're in good shape! Well we've already seen him do it, so we know he's capable. I think a 1B/DH is a bigger need than a reliever personally. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 27, 2017 12:37:54 GMT -5
Even if you think Barnes is for real, Neshek wouldn't have been replacing him - there are enough high-leverage innings for both. And freeing Barnes up to work more games where they are tied or behind would probably be a blessing. The bullpen needs another guy beyond Barnes and Kimbrel - whether that's an internal option I don't know, but Neshek didn't cost a ton.
On the other hand, I can't blame the Sox for sitting out another setup reliever with a weird delivery and a long injury history, though.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 27, 2017 13:16:52 GMT -5
Even if you think Barnes is for real, Neshek wouldn't have been replacing him - there are enough high-leverage innings for both. And freeing Barnes up to work more games where they are tied or behind would probably be a blessing. The bullpen needs another guy beyond Barnes and Kimbrel - whether that's an internal option I don't know, but Neshek didn't cost a ton. On the other hand, I can't blame the Sox for sitting out another setup reliever with a weird delivery and a long injury history, though. Yes to the bullpen needing another guy, and the key relevant statement of fact is Fernando Abad is your best LHR. He ranks 29th out 182 relievers against them (wOBA allowed), but 105th out of 163 against RHB. You have an actual vacant position: the LHR who is solid against RHP and is thus not a specialist. Meanwhile, vs. RHB, Kimbrel is 2nd, Kelly is 5th, and Barnes is 24th. Neshek was 14th. I'd rather upgrade the spot that ranks 105th. The obvious targets are Justin Wilson and Brad Hand. Both are overqualified for the role as Kelly's running mate, but if you're going to add a stud, it's beyond insane to look at any RHP when either of those guys would give you a bullpen with much better balance and flexibility. Kimbrel Wilson or Hand Barnes Kelly & Abad Smith or Hembree or Workman Boyer or Hembree That's a tremendous bullpen. Edit, more food for thought (double edit: because the asking price for Wilson and Hand is reportedly sky-high). Jalen Beeks' OPS allowed over his three years: Vs LHB: 652, 752, 656 Vs RHB: 777, 793, 588. 125, 41, -68 split. |
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