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2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
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Post by Smittyw on Jul 28, 2017 18:14:06 GMT -5
I have no clue what they see in Fister. I am convinced Velazquez could fill that role and not be any worse. He's a vizzled greteran. A fizzled veteran? |
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 28, 2017 18:25:54 GMT -5
Helickson was scratched from his start tonight with many speculating that he may be traded soon.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 28, 2017 21:08:46 GMT -5
Please make a trade for Jay Bruce tonight.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 28, 2017 21:18:38 GMT -5
Please make a trade for Jay Bruce tonight. He hit another HR tonight. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 28, 2017 21:32:41 GMT -5
Please make a trade for Jay Bruce tonight. He hit another HR tonight. It all depends on the cost. I don't think Jay Bruce will be given away or else somebody would already have him. I hope the Sox get him but I'd be concerned that the value coming back might be pretty steep for a rental. It's funny - I'd consider trading Sam Travis for Reed and Bruce, but I wouldn't deal Chavis. Perhaps Dombrowski would do the opposite. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 28, 2017 22:09:29 GMT -5
Has to be posturing. Fister probably doesn't even want to be in the rotation at this point. He's getting paid this year, everything's else from here on out is just mental torture as he gets destroyed. Interesting thought. Other teams might believe we see something in Fister that we can correct, and that might give DDo a bit of leverage should trade talks happen. Meanwhile, I'm with those who think Velazquez is a better option, and an adequate one. |
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Post by marrcus on Jul 28, 2017 23:16:34 GMT -5
Bruce --.847 OPS-- has a no trade to RS according to Cots. Probably a good idea to put the RS down on any list to eventually get more money in a deal.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 29, 2017 7:23:19 GMT -5
Pedro or chris, somebody, have a good idea what we have left for money under the cap? That is the key. Dave is not going to go over that number. The front office and Dave are looking at the reset savings so they are able to spend for the winter of 18. Second key is I do not think that Dave makes any big packages of prospects. He and his staff have done an excellent job of rebuilding the base on the farm. Whether it bears fruit remains to be seen. It is likely that Dave moves some of his surplus relief to get something, maybe a bat, but still follows guidelines of the first key.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 29, 2017 7:57:52 GMT -5
Pedro or chris, somebody, have a good idea what we have left for money under the cap? That is the key. Dave is not going to go over that number. The front office and Dave are looking at the reset savings so they are able to spend for the winter of 18. Second key is I do not think that Dave makes any big packages of prospects. He and his staff have done an excellent job of rebuilding the base on the farm. Whether it bears fruit remains to be seen. It is likely that Dave moves some of his surplus relief to get something, maybe a bat, but still follows guidelines of the first key. The Sox have around 6.5 million until the luxury tax threshold. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 29, 2017 8:12:16 GMT -5
Pedro or chris, somebody, have a good idea what we have left for money under the cap? That is the key. Dave is not going to go over that number. The front office and Dave are looking at the reset savings so they are able to spend for the winter of 18. Second key is I do not think that Dave makes any big packages of prospects. He and his staff have done an excellent job of rebuilding the base on the farm. Whether it bears fruit remains to be seen. It is likely that Dave moves some of his surplus relief to get something, maybe a bat, but still follows guidelines of the first key. The Sox have around 6.5 million until the luxury tax threshold. Thanks. That's a lot more than I thought. So does Jay Bruce's salary remaining fit under that number? |
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 29, 2017 8:23:48 GMT -5
My feeling with this year's team is, I don't want to mortgage any [more] of the future to try to salvage something. If the team sinks, it sinks. Too many injuries, too many less-than-anticipated performances out of what are thought to be more productive offensive players. If the team can right itself as it is, fine. If it can't, so be it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 29, 2017 8:32:36 GMT -5
The Sox have around 6.5 million until the luxury tax threshold. Thanks. That's a lot more than I thought. So does Jay Bruce's salary remaining fit under that number? Jay Bruce is owed 4.5 million the rest of the season, so yes. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 8:40:59 GMT -5
My feeling with this year's team is, I don't want to mortgage any [more] of the future to try to salvage something. If the team sinks, it sinks. Too many injuries, too many less-than-anticipated performances out of what are thought to be more productive offensive players. If the team can right itself as it is, fine. If it can't, so be it. Couldn't agree more. DD has to be smart here and realize that it's just not happening this year. Ride it out. Maybe add a bullpen piece, but other than that, see if you can make the postseason as is. Take a step back and see the whole picture this offseason. Don't do anything short-sighted these next couple of days. |
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Post by artfuldodger on Jul 29, 2017 9:15:43 GMT -5
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 29, 2017 10:08:42 GMT -5
40-man roster thoughts:
At some point, Carson Smith and Roenis Elias (who just started a rehab assignment) will likely be coming off the 60-day DL, and we want to select Jalen Beeks.
On the flip side, I think we all agree that Fister is worth a DFA, and Nunez plus the surprising competence of Marrero make Josh Rutledge expendable.
And you don't really need four RHR at Pawtucket on the roster. Kyle Martin (whom I didn't think was worth protecting) would probably clear waivers, as might Noe Ramirez, and I don't think that losing one would seriously harm your depth.
You already have, for four roster spots if you have two LHR in the pen, Barnes, Kelly, [Smith], Workman, Boyer, and Hembree. That's already a scenario where Smith has to wait until 9/1 and either Workman has to go back to AAA or you go with one LHR, if everyone's healthy.
And should they lose Martin and then suffer a rash of injuries, there's Jamie Callahan, who's been great his last 5 weeks / 9 outings (13.1 11 4 4 4 18, 2.70, .567 OPS) and is a guy you'll be protecting anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 11:14:43 GMT -5
The Sox need Cuevas back. They should trade for him and call him up to use him as a long relief pitcher while Kyle Martin is still developing. The only long relief pitcher they have is Abad, and he's a free agent at the end of the season. And for bonus points but Bogaerts and Moreland on the DL and stop pretending that they're in slumps.
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Post by Canseco on Jul 29, 2017 11:22:32 GMT -5
My feeling with this year's team is, I don't want to mortgage any [more] of the future to try to salvage something. If the team sinks, it sinks. Too many injuries, too many less-than-anticipated performances out of what are thought to be more productive offensive players. If the team can right itself as it is, fine. If it can't, so be it. Bingo. This is my exact philosophy as it pertains to this year's club. It is a flawed roster with a wave of offensive down years happening at once. Let the farm recover and fight with what we have. IF we can scratch and claw our way into a postseason spot, anything can happen with Sale at the front of the rotation. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 29, 2017 11:24:44 GMT -5
I am ready to sink or swim with this team. I don't see the point for doing much of anything else, unless it is a major injury issue. This team is talented enough. The 2004 Sox were 56-47 and they ended up with 98 wins. Just need to play better.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2017 11:56:52 GMT -5
I sure don't want to drain the system. Luckily it's a buyers market. We don't have to drain the system to get another bat and relief pitcher. It just makes sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 12:01:01 GMT -5
Here are some young players and prospects that I think the Red Sox should be very careful about trading, they may have all-star potential.
Already Debuted Players:
E-Rod, Hembree, Workman, Vazquez, Devers, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Bradley, Betts, Marrero, Wright, B. Johnson, Scott, Maddox, K-Mart, Travis, Lin, and Swihart
Yet To Debut:
Beeks, Buttrey, De La Guerra, Mars, Kent, Matheny, Lovullo, Groome, Chatham, Houck, Aybar.
I am excluding some players that there may not be room for, such as Chavis, Tobias, Ockimey, etc.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 29, 2017 12:04:40 GMT -5
I am ready to sink or swim with this team. I don't see the point for doing much of anything else, unless it is a major injury issue. This team is talented enough. The 2004 Sox were 56-47 and they ended up with 98 wins. Just need to play better. I agree guys...this roster is flawed and the room under the luxury cap is not that much. DD will NOT go over the cap, and I agree and would be upset if he did. In some ways DD has backed us into a corner IMO. We have some HUGE contracts and are certainly going for it, but our line-up as constructed is collectively having "down" years. Going into this season, I did not envision Betts and Xander slipping so much. Betts will still have a lot of extra base hits, but his inconsistency has been shocking. One game he has 3 hits, and the next 3 games he has a total of one hit. I know Xander is hurt, but even before he wasn't getting some big hits. Benny will be better next year, but I'm not sure we are going to see an explosion this season. Bradley is Bradley. We have almost no offense coming from 1st base, catcher, and 3rd. I thought they would at least be league average. Chris Young has been no help either. I never count on too much from Hanley. Peddy has been solid! DD has no patience and it shows. I really thought 15 to 18 months ago, we were sitting pretty....and now somehow the Yankees are the ones with the top farm system and many young stars hitting on all cylinders. That in conjunction with our poor play has me ready to jump off a roof. Not once have I chimed in about Farrell being fired or DD doing a bad job. BUT I'm close! There is no way that DD should move any of our top 5 - 6 top prospects this year. I'd love to have Alfonzo playing 1st, but our financial situation and depleted farm system have us handcuffed. I've said this to other Sox fans....this team is pretty dang boring unless Sale is on the hill. I hope DD sits down this offseason and makes better decisions going forward. Sincerely, Unhappy Camper |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 29, 2017 12:51:48 GMT -5
Here are some young players and prospects that I think the Red Sox should be very careful about trading, they may have all-star potential. Already Debuted Players: E-Rod, Hembree, Workman, Vazquez, Devers, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Bradley, Betts, Marrero, Wright, B. Johnson, Scott, Maddox, K-Mart, Travis, Lin, and Swihart Yet To Debut: Buttrey, Jerez, Dahlstrand, De La Guerra, Mars, Kent, Matheny, Lovullo, Groome, Goetze, Chatham, Houck, Fisher, Aybar, Wren, and Rusconi. I am excluding some players that there may not be room for, such as Chavis, Tobias, Ockimey, etc. Most of those young guys have zero "all-star potential" other than the ones who have already been all-stars in Betts, Bradley, and Wright who isn't that young. Hembree, Vazquez, and Workman, and eventually Swihart and Travis can be productive players, but hardly all-stars. They're hardly untradeable. E-Rod, if he could stay healthy, could become an all-star some day and I would anticipate Benintendi will, but everybody else is the just about the definition of fungible and highly tradeable, even if I really don't want to see Chavis go. Some of those others you mentioned may never even sniff the majors or be fringy if they do. You can't hold onto all these guys and I don't know why you would want to. Like, why would you be careful about trading Rusconi or Wren? Are they even wanted by anybody else? |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 29, 2017 15:11:39 GMT -5
My feeling with this year's team is, I don't want to mortgage any [more] of the future to try to salvage something. If the team sinks, it sinks. Too many injuries, too many less-than-anticipated performances out of what are thought to be more productive offensive players. If the team can right itself as it is, fine. If it can't, so be it. Bingo. This is my exact philosophy as it pertains to this year's club. It is a flawed roster with a wave of offensive down years happening at once. Let the farm recover and fight with what we have. IF we can scratch and claw our way into a postseason spot, anything can happen with Sale at the front of the rotation. In case people didn't see my liking the original post, indeed bingo. Even without Price they have a solid postseason rotation, and Velazquez, Johnson and Beeks aren't going to kill you as the 5th guy. And maybe Price is healthy. The difference between Justin Wilson and Beeks (or, for that matter, Robby Scott) as a second LHR isn't worth the cost. I looked at the 1B candidates and there was no one who projected well enough to be worth the cost as an upgrade to Moreland, assuming he'll be healthy at some point. If Moreland and Xander can get healthy and hit as expected / hoped, and Devers continues to contribute and if Benintendi can finish as strong as he obviously can, they can win the division. Fangraphs has our playoff odds at 90% (67.7% for the division). BP has 71.6% (50.9% division). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 15:57:10 GMT -5
Here are some young players and prospects that I think the Red Sox should be very careful about trading, they may have all-star potential. Already Debuted Players: E-Rod, Hembree, Workman, Vazquez, Devers, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Bradley, Betts, Marrero, Wright, B. Johnson, Scott, Maddox, K-Mart, Travis, Lin, and Swihart Yet To Debut: Buttrey, Jerez, Dahlstrand, De La Guerra, Mars, Kent, Matheny, Lovullo, Groome, Goetze, Chatham, Houck, Fisher, Aybar, Wren, and Rusconi. I am excluding some players that there may not be room for, such as Chavis, Tobias, Ockimey, etc. Most of those young guys have zero "all-star potential" other than the ones who have already been all-stars in Betts, Bradley, and Wright who isn't that young. Hembree, Vazquez, and Workman, and eventually Swihart and Travis can be productive players, but hardly all-stars. They're hardly untradeable. E-Rod, if he could stay healthy, could become an all-star some day and I would anticipate Benintendi will, but everybody else is the just about the definition of fungible and highly tradeable, even if I really don't want to see Chavis go. Some of those others you mentioned may never even sniff the majors or be fringy if they do. You can't hold onto all these guys and I don't know why you would want to. Like, why would you be careful about trading Rusconi or Wren? Are they even wanted by anybody else? I'm not saying that they should not trade them, they will have to trade some of them, but just make sure they get the right price. For example, I may have added Moncada to this list last year, but the Red Sox got a good price for him (and some other prospects), in Chris Sale. Rusconi and Wren are way underrated, so if no one else wants them then that's good for us. Wren is streaky, and can be on or off, but as we've seen with JBJ, that can be worth it. Rusconi, well, he wasn't their 4th pick for nothing. The Sox were reckless trading Shaw, Dubon, and Pennington for Thornburg and you've seen where that's gotten us. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 29, 2017 16:21:04 GMT -5
Most of those young guys have zero "all-star potential" other than the ones who have already been all-stars in Betts, Bradley, and Wright who isn't that young. Hembree, Vazquez, and Workman, and eventually Swihart and Travis can be productive players, but hardly all-stars. They're hardly untradeable. E-Rod, if he could stay healthy, could become an all-star some day and I would anticipate Benintendi will, but everybody else is the just about the definition of fungible and highly tradeable, even if I really don't want to see Chavis go. Some of those others you mentioned may never even sniff the majors or be fringy if they do. You can't hold onto all these guys and I don't know why you would want to. Like, why would you be careful about trading Rusconi or Wren? Are they even wanted by anybody else? I'm not saying that they should not trade them, they will have to trade some of them, but just make sure they get the right price. For example, I may have added Moncada to this list last year, but the Red Sox got a good price for him (and some other prospects), in Chris Sale. Rusconi and Wren are way underrated, so if no one else wants them then that's good for us. Wren is streaky, and can be on or off, but as we've seen with JBJ, that can be worth it. Rusconi, well, he wasn't their 4th pick for nothing. The Sox were reckless trading Shaw, Dubon, and Pennington for Thornburg and you've seen where that's gotten us. I get your point but I think you're vastly overrating the talent level of many of those on your list. A lot of those guys have minimal value, like Rusconi and Wren, whom the Red Sox drafted only because of his father and they knew he'd take the minimum amount of money to sign thus allowing them to sign others like Aaron Perry for example. Like on your yet to debut list, some of those guys are so marginal. Groome, Houcke, Buttrey, and Mars are differing levels of talent with Groome obviously their best prospect and Houcke a valuable commodity as their first round pick. Mars might make it as a #4 OF and Buttrey could make a bullpen, but likely just a fungible relief arm. The rest are questionable. Chatham keeps having injury issues or he'd be a guy with a legit chance. As far as the Shaw deal, it's turned out awfully bad, but if Shaw had been any good at all last season, they wouldn't have dealt him. He was bad enough to lose his job. Dubon is a good prospect. Pennington probably won't amount to much. They also gave up a young SS Coca, who is quite young, but has a legit shot, but really the deal is mostly Shaw. If Shaw and Thornburg had performed the way they did in 2016 nobody would be complaining. Shaw is not some 22 year old kid. He's 27 and this is his career year, kind of what Phil Plantier did back in 1993. |
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