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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2017 22:08:16 GMT -5
Or. Hear me out. Reed and kimbrel may be unavailable. As I was saying Why give up good prospects if you're not going to use Reed the same way the Mets have this year?!! This still frustrates the h*ll out of me.
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Post by station13 on Aug 21, 2017 22:08:24 GMT -5
It's not the home-road splits for Barnes that are the most troubling, it's these (not including tonight): High-leverage: 83 PA, .273/. 390/.364/754, 14BB, 20K Medium-leverage: 70 PA, .172/.243/.313/555, 6 BB, 22 K Low-leverage: 90 PA, .181/.244/.293/.497, 6BB, 24K. High-leverage: 83 PA, 11 BB; medium/low-leverage: 160 PA, 12BB 11 meltdowns.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2017 22:08:57 GMT -5
Then why the f*ck did he pitch Kimbrel last night when it was 5-1? He was already warming before they scored the extra runs.
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Post by p23w on Aug 21, 2017 22:09:27 GMT -5
The loss goes to Workman with an assist from Holt. Whether this takes place as a walk-off or in the 8th inning is moot. I'm more upset with Vasquez breaking into a home run trot on an off the OF wall hit that wound up as a single. I think he (or a pinch runner) would have scored given the next two ABs.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2017 22:09:38 GMT -5
Or. Hear me out. Reed and kimbrel may be unavailable. Then Farrell is a moron for pitching Kimbrel last night. I would bet a year's salary he would have pitched if the Red Sox scored in the 9th. I have zero problem with Kimbrel pitching yesterday after he got warm. A four-run lead is far from insurmountable, and not using your best pitcher, who is rested and warmed up, because it's a four-run game, would be the same sort of managing to the save that we criticize Farrell for on the other end. I do think Kimbrel was available tonight, and I might have used him in the ninth. Looking at the matchups though, trying to save him for the 10th when you have a good option in Workman isn't crazy either. Barnes and Workman didn't get the job done tonight. That's not on Farrell. I'll kill Farrell when he deserves it, believe me. The "Reed should have been available" argument is weird to me. Despite the talk here, this wasn't a playoff game, or decisive of anything. Farrell not chewing through guys would be a step in the right direction in the post-Tazawa era.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2017 22:10:10 GMT -5
Why give up good prospects if you're not going to use Reed the same way the Mets have this year?!! This still frustrates the h*ll out of me. Sure. He can abuse reeds arm in the regular season. Only problem with that is he could turn into tazawa 2.0 in the playoffs if you over use him. Having a rubber arm doesn't mean you are immune to hitting a brick wall
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2017 22:10:40 GMT -5
Then why the f*ck did he pitch Kimbrel last night when it was 5-1? He was already warming before they scored the extra runs. So what!!!! He could have been used tonight in the 8th with runners on 1st and 2nd with 0 outs instead! Of course that isn't possible because Farrell won't allow it to be.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2017 22:10:49 GMT -5
Why give up good prospects if you're not going to use Reed the same way the Mets have this year?!! This still frustrates the h*ll out of me. Yeah if you're not going to use the guy in the same manner as that genius Terry Collins and that championship organization in Flushing, what's even the point of being a manager? Come on.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2017 22:12:05 GMT -5
Then Farrell is a moron for pitching Kimbrel last night. I would bet a year's salary he would have pitched if the Red Sox scored in the 9th. I have zero problem with Kimbrel pitching yesterday after he got warm. A four-run lead is far from insurmountable, and not using your best pitcher, who is rested and warmed up, because it's a four-run game, would be the same sort of managing to the save that we criticize Farrell for on the other end. I do think Kimbrel was available tonight, and I might have used him in the ninth. Looking at the matchups though, trying to save him for the 10th when you have a good option in Workman isn't crazy either. Barnes and Workman didn't get the job done tonight. That's not on Farrell. I'll kill Farrell when he deserves it, believe me. The "Reed should have been available" argument is weird to me. Despite the talk here, this wasn't a playoff game, or decisive of anything. Farrell not chewing through guys would be a step in the right direction in the post-Tazawa era. You left out Hembree.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2017 22:12:24 GMT -5
Why give up good prospects if you're not going to use Reed the same way the Mets have this year?!! This still frustrates the h*ll out of me. Yeah if you're not going to use the guy in the same manner as that genius Terry Collins and that championship organization in Flushing, what's even the point of being a manager? Come on. The fact is Reed can handle this amount of workload and has done it in the past and he's a friggen rental. You're not trying to save him for anything but this stretch run.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2017 22:14:27 GMT -5
Does anyone argue that with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs in the 8th inning with a 1 run lead, the best option to face a LHB is Hembree?
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2017 22:14:43 GMT -5
They used Kelly, Barnes, Hembree and Scott with a 1 run lead while Reed and Kimbrel didn't pitch. You can figure out every way possible to defend Farrell, but you're doing more work than he is. Because they're tired from a difficult series against their direct division rival. A tense series. A dramatic series. That the Red Sox won! At this point I'm not even defending Farrell. You said Kimbrel shouldn't have pitched last night. Now this is some preposterous historical revisionism because nobody complained about it as it happened. He was praised for using Kimbrel in what wasn't a save situation. This entire board would be screaming bloody murder if he used some other dude who found a way to give up the lead. Given their recent history with the Yankees, that was not improbable. Reed was not available, Workman was tired and it showed, Kimbrel can't pitch every inning, it happens.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2017 22:15:46 GMT -5
They used Kelly, Barnes, Hembree and Scott with a 1 run lead while Reed and Kimbrel didn't pitch. You can figure out every way possible to defend Farrell, but you're doing more work than he is. Because they're tired from a difficult series against their direct division rival. A tense series. A dramatic series. That the Red Sox won! At this point I'm not even defending Farrell. You said Kimbrel shouldn't have pitched last night. Now this is some preposterous historical revisionism because nobody complained about it as it happened. He was praised for using Kimbrel in what wasn't a save situation. This entire board would be screaming bloody murder if he used some other dude who found a way to give up the lead. Given their recent history with the Yankees, that was not improbable. Reed was not available, Workman was tired and it showed, Kimbrel can't pitch every inning, it happens. At least they're all rested for the Fister start.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2017 22:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah if you're not going to use the guy in the same manner as that genius Terry Collins and that championship organization in Flushing, what's even the point of being a manager? Come on. The fact is Reed can handle this amount of workload and has done it in the past and he's a friggen rental. You're not trying to save him for anything but this stretch run. You're using "the fact is" when clearly stating your opinion. He wasn't available, and they need him healthy and not overworked in the playoffs. Which I will bet my avatar that they are going to.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 21, 2017 22:18:03 GMT -5
4th time this season Barnes enters and fails to record an out.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2017 22:18:24 GMT -5
The fact is Reed can handle this amount of workload and has done it in the past and he's a friggen rental. You're not trying to save him for anything but this stretch run. You're using "the fact is" when clearly stating your opinion. He wasn't available, and they need him healthy and not overworked in the playoffs. Which I will be my avatar that they are going to. Reed has pitched 3 outings in a row 3 different times once again. It is a fact. I'm not making this up.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2017 22:18:47 GMT -5
The fact is Reed can handle this amount of workload and has done it in the past and he's a friggen rental. You're not trying to save him for anything but this stretch run. You're using "the fact is" when clearly stating your opinion. He wasn't available, and they need him healthy and not overworked in the playoffs. Which I will bet my avatar that they are going to. But he has a rubber arm!!!!!! He can never tire out!
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2017 22:20:05 GMT -5
You're using "the fact is" when clearly stating your opinion. He wasn't available, and they need him healthy and not overworked in the playoffs. Which I will bet my avatar that they are going to. But he has a rubber arm!!!!!! He can never tire out! Maybe it will help if they pitch him every time he warms up instead of not doing that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2017 22:20:44 GMT -5
You're using "the fact is" when clearly stating your opinion. He wasn't available, and they need him healthy and not overworked in the playoffs. Which I will bet my avatar that they are going to. But he has a rubber arm!!!!!! He can never tire out! I can live with Reed s*cking next year with someone else and completely burning him this year.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2017 22:21:02 GMT -5
At least they're all rested for the Fister start. I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. If they were used when they shouldn't have been available they would have lost the game anyway because that's what happens when you manage your guys RnR poorly. They pitch like sh*t. The winning run scored off Workman after he gave up a leadoff double to a guy that can't hit righties.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2017 22:21:05 GMT -5
You're using "the fact is" when clearly stating your opinion. He wasn't available, and they need him healthy and not overworked in the playoffs. Which I will be my avatar that they are going to. Reed has pitched 3 outings in a row 3 different times once again. It is a fact. I'm not making this up. Maybe if Terry Collins hadn't pushed him to work so many worthless Mets games then he'd have been available tonight. EDIT: I'm serious, "he should've been available" is a stupid complain-y argument. "He shouldn't be fatigued because he was worked so hard earlier in the year which proves you can work him hard" spits in the face of all logic. It's like if Chris Sale threw 130 pitches for three straight starts, then went on the DL and being all "he can't be hurt, look at how many pitches he threw!"
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2017 22:22:45 GMT -5
At least they're all rested for the Fister start. I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. If they were used when they shouldn't have been available they would have lost the game anyway because that's what happens when you manage your guys RnR poorly. They pitch like sh*t. The winning run scored off Workman after he gave up a leadoff double to a guy that can't hit righties. You know damn well that Kimbrel would have been pitching if they scored in the 9th. But at least now he's rested for a Fister start. I know the world would have ended if Kimbrel pitched in a non-save situation because he automatically doesn't care if he gets anyone out if it's not for a save since he only cares about saves and not winning.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 21, 2017 22:28:05 GMT -5
Very discouraging game - leaving the bullpen management aside...
concerns - Nunez is swinging from the heels at everything - 19 pitches in 5 AB. 6 walks, lots of baserunners, only 4 runs (two homers)...Mookie, Xander, Brock, Devers, JBJ rough nights as well...and why wasn't Vazquez on 2nd?
my main concern - not convinced we match up all that well with this team that we are likely to meet in the playoffs - and Francona must be having a laugh over the bullpen mgt.
The positives - ERod pitched well enough to win, Robby Scott 2 big Ks, Kelly looked good (though beaning the ump is a no no) and Beni and Hanley big HRs.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2017 22:29:18 GMT -5
Reed has pitched 3 outings in a row 3 different times once again. It is a fact. I'm not making this up. Maybe if Terry Collins hadn't pushed him to work so many worthless Mets games then he'd have been available tonight. EDIT: I'm serious, "he should've been available" is a stupid complain-y argument. "He shouldn't be fatigued because he was worked so hard earlier in the year which proves you can work him hard" spits in the face of all logic. It's like if Chris Sale threw 130 pitches for three straight starts, then went on the DL and being all "he can't be hurt, look at how many pitches he threw!" I'm happy that you care about Reed's long term health with his next team. Maybe Reed and you can send a thank you card to John Farrell for saving his arm later in his career. Terry Collins was pitching a pitcher like as if he was a rental pitcher, as like he should have been to try and win ballgames.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2017 22:29:58 GMT -5
You know damn well that Kimbrel would have been pitching if they scored in the 9th. But at least now he's rested for a Fister start. I know the world would have ended if Kimbrel pitched in a non-save situation because he automatically doesn't care if he gets anyone out if it's not for a save since he only cares about saves and not winning. He pitched in a pretty key non save situation last night. And he would have pitched in the 9th if they had the lead. He was getting 3 outs one way or another, who should get the other 3?
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