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Patriots 2017 season thread
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 5, 2018 15:43:53 GMT -5
Until they say differently --preferably with the truth-- I'm assuming this was personal between BB and Butler. Malcomb isn't sick and played throughout the playoffs. To suddenly come to the conclusion that Butler was less able than the other secondary choices has no credibility. Bill's lying. I don't think certain players will go along with it. Others and Ownership probably will. This is what I am worried about, it can have implications down the road. The "In Bill I Trust" belief could be taking a hit. I just find it hard to believe he would make a decision that would reduce the chances of winning. But given much of the information it is a good question. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 5, 2018 15:50:21 GMT -5
I don't get betting against your team, heck you make it sound like you did it because you knew they would lose. That doesn't sound like you didn't care. If you didn't care, pick the Celtics to win it all. That has to be a massive payout compared to this game. Die hardfans don't bet against there teams! That seems pretty unfair. He already said he was closing the account and said previously that he didn't like the way the game set up for the Pats. If you have those thoughts, and you have to bet it a certain way, it seems like the smart thing to do is make the bet to try and win some money. The fact that the Pats are his favorite team is incidental, in this situation. I am pretty sure he would not have cared if he lost the cash. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 5, 2018 15:53:44 GMT -5
Look, Foles and the Eagles won the game more than the Patriots lost it. The 4th down play on the Foles TD reception was as ballsy as it gets. Belichick deserves better than what he is getting from the fan base. Friggin' guy is a genius.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2018 16:00:40 GMT -5
Reports before the game said he wasn't 100% and because he missed a day of practice. Then after the story blows up someone leaks those other reasons, yet Bill won't even talk about it. Come on that is fishy. If he broke team rules why not say that he broke team rules? He then says he played the players he thought would give us the best chance. Again making it sound like Butler was injured, yet he says he wasn't.
I'm sorry but smoking weed and missing curew isn't some serious thing, every year players do it. They are never benched for the whole game. Butler has always shown up to play on game day. I get making a point, but this was something more. This seemed personal, like Bill trying to show Butler wasn't that good and we didn't need him and it back fired. Otherwise, why not just say what happened ? They did the samething with Collins after he left, bunch of unnamed reports started coming out trashing him, hence why we traded him. I don't buy unnamed reports that come out after fans are upset and questioning our coaches moves.
Then you don't even tell the player what's going on? Come on, that makes no sense. Bill messed up and his comments after the game seem to show he knows he did.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 5, 2018 16:06:50 GMT -5
Reports before the game said he wasn't 100% and because he missed a day of practice. Then after the story blows up someone leaks those other reasons, yet Bill won't even talk about it. Come on that is fishy. If he broke team rules why not say that he broke team rules? He then says he played the players he thought would give us the best chance. Again making it sound like Butler was injured, yet he says he wasn't. I'm sorry but smoking weed and missing curew isn't some serious thing, every year players do it. They are never benched for the whole game. Butler has always shown up to play on game day. I get making a point, but this was something more. This seemed personal, like Bill trying to show Butler wasn't that good and we didn't need him and it back fired. Otherwise, why not just say what happened ? They did the samething with Collins after he left, bunch of unnamed reports started coming out trashing him, hence why we traded him. I don't buy unnamed reports that come out after fans are upset and questioning our coaches moves. Then you don't even tell the player what's going on? Come on, that makes no sense. Bill messed up and his comments after the game seem to show he knows he did. But we don't know if the outcome is any different if he plays. Foles was making some tough throws in traffic. And they ran the ball efficiently. I saw a game where both defenses did not have the answers. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2018 16:11:21 GMT -5
I don't get betting against your team, heck you make it sound like you did it because you knew they would lose. That doesn't sound like you didn't care. If you didn't care, pick the Celtics to win it all. That has to be a massive payout compared to this game. Die hardfans don't bet against there teams! That seems pretty unfair. He already said he was closing the account and said previously that he didn't like the way the game set up for the Pats. If you have those thoughts, and you have to bet it a certain way, it seems like the smart thing to do is make the bet to try and win some money. The fact that the Pats are his favorite team is incidental, in this situation. I am pretty sure he would not have cared if he lost the cash. No its not, he could bet on any team, any sport, anytime. He basically came on bragging after they lost that he knew it was going to happen because this was the weakest Pats team in recent memory. He bet on them because he thought it was the right bet. I don't think any die hard fan should ever bet against his team or any real fan for that matter. It's not like the odds were even that great, if you really don't care about losing your money, he could have picked a ton of things were he could have made some real cash. Not caring about losing his money is BS after his first comments anyway, he clearly said he thought this was a weak team, hence why he bet the way he did. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2018 16:15:32 GMT -5
Reports before the game said he wasn't 100% and because he missed a day of practice. Then after the story blows up someone leaks those other reasons, yet Bill won't even talk about it. Come on that is fishy. If he broke team rules why not say that he broke team rules? He then says he played the players he thought would give us the best chance. Again making it sound like Butler was injured, yet he says he wasn't. I'm sorry but smoking weed and missing curew isn't some serious thing, every year players do it. They are never benched for the whole game. Butler has always shown up to play on game day. I get making a point, but this was something more. This seemed personal, like Bill trying to show Butler wasn't that good and we didn't need him and it back fired. Otherwise, why not just say what happened ? They did the samething with Collins after he left, bunch of unnamed reports started coming out trashing him, hence why we traded him. I don't buy unnamed reports that come out after fans are upset and questioning our coaches moves. Then you don't even tell the player what's going on? Come on, that makes no sense. Bill messed up and his comments after the game seem to show he knows he did. But we don't know if the outcome is any different if he plays. Foles was making some tough throws in traffic. And they ran the ball efficiently. I saw a game where both defenses did not have the answers. That was a very close game. One of two plays could have changed the game, Butler is clearly better than anyone besides Gilmore. Our D went from playing fairly good to crap. Rowe wasn't even prepared to play the #2 cornerback spot, only found out a few hours before. Come on. Foles made some good throws, but also had a crap load of easy wide open guys. They picked on Rowe all game long! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2018 16:18:10 GMT -5
I've never seen a team pickon Butler, yes great receivers can make great catches on great throws, but he doesn't leave guys wide open. He's one of the better man to man cover corners in the game.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 5, 2018 16:22:14 GMT -5
Butler also knows how to tackle, which would’ve made a difference last night.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 5, 2018 16:24:37 GMT -5
The Eagles, just like the Patriots, find weaknesses and exploit them. If Butler were playing, they would have done something else, probably run a lot more and played a ball control game. They also probably would have leaned on Ertz a lot more than they did. But I have to give credit to Foles also, because Rowe wasn't exactly getting burned that I remember. That Jeffery TD catch couldn't have been defended better (Rowe was covering him) and the pass couldn't have been more perfect.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2018 17:24:46 GMT -5
It's not always coverage, but about what the QB thinks of the defender. The Eagles didn't fear Rowe one bit, didn't respect him at all and weren't scared he could make a play. After they switched Gilmore on Jeffrey, he was taken out of the game. I don't think he had another catch all game, after 3 for like 75 yards and a TD to start the game. Butler is a respected player, Foles knows who he is and would respect him. A few more missed passes or PD and this could be a totally different game. Butler didn't need to do much to change this game, heck stoping one third down could have won the game for the Pats.
Them running more would have really helped us and took away their highly efficient passing attack. They never tried to run it down our throats, just a ton of very well timed runs. Things would have been very different if they acted like the Bills or Seahawks and been a run first team. Big difference getting a team in passing D and running and trying to run against a teams run D. Heck that's why Lewis was so good for us, he got a ton of runs against passing D and caught the other team off-guard. Just like Woodhead years ago.
Ertz was targeted 9 times, for 7 catches. Not sure how much more they could involve him. Nevermind with Butler, you could have matched up Rowe against him. Butler just changes everything! Gives you so many more options and adds a playmaker, to a D that doesn't have many.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 5, 2018 17:52:07 GMT -5
Whoa no one was bragging - i actually posted about putting the money down before the game... it already explained how it was worthless money which is still worthless bc i need to bet more before i can touch it. Was somewhat of an emotional hedge tho.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 5, 2018 18:19:07 GMT -5
People are quick to forget that there were 2 sensational catches in the endzone for the Eagles that easily could have been incomplete, each catch was about an inch or 2 from being broken up. Then you have the strip sack by Grahame which essentially ends the game. Yes of course their were more plays to consider but any of those 3 don't happen and the outcome could have been different, if 2 out 3 didn't happen the Pats probably win the game.
Pats put up over 600 yards of offense, first time in history a team has done that and not won the game. Yes the D was terrible but give the Eagles credit, they were just good enough to win.
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Post by dakotaskye on Feb 5, 2018 18:37:29 GMT -5
Reports before the game said he wasn't 100% and because he missed a day of practice. Then after the story blows up someone leaks those other reasons, yet Bill won't even talk about it. Come on that is fishy. If he broke team rules why not say that he broke team rules? He then says he played the players he thought would give us the best chance. Again making it sound like Butler was injured, yet he says he wasn't. I'm sorry but smoking weed and missing curew isn't some serious thing, every year players do it. They are never benched for the whole game. Butler has always shown up to play on game day. I get making a point, but this was something more. This seemed personal, like Bill trying to show Butler wasn't that good and we didn't need him and it back fired. Otherwise, why not just say what happened ? They did the samething with Collins after he left, bunch of unnamed reports started coming out trashing him, hence why we traded him. I don't buy unnamed reports that come out after fans are upset and questioning our coaches moves. Then you don't even tell the player what's going on? Come on, that makes no sense. Bill messed up and his comments after the game seem to show he knows he did. But we don't know if the outcome is any different if he plays. Foles was making some tough throws in traffic. And they ran the ball efficiently. I saw a game where both defenses did not have the answers. True - we didn’t “know” - but the Pats didn’t play their #2 CB in a game where one 3rd down stand could’ve made the difference. As people have said, once Gilmore was put on Jeffrey, he was completely shut down. Putting Butler on Agholor wouldn’t have necessarily completely shut him down, but outside of one play, Rowe didn’t do anything yesterday - which I don’t necessarily think was his fault - he wasn’t planning on starting. A little bit of pressure could’ve changed the game. A couple of calls going the Pats way could’ve changed the game. Brady checking down to a short receiver before being strip sacked could’ve changed the game. All a bunch of “coulds” - but I think the strongest “could” of them all is that if the Pats played their #2 CB (the guy who, prior to signing Gilmore, was their #1 CB, and who played a higher percentage of downs on D this year than anyone on the Pats), their defense could’ve performed better. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2018 23:40:01 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 6, 2018 15:27:33 GMT -5
I so far have read nothing that would've justified benching him for the game. On the rules violations, they all seem like one quarter or one half things. And if he sucked at practice, well guess what... the guys playing ahead of him sucked IN THE GAME, so maybe going to the next option was warranted?
What a huge f-up.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 6, 2018 19:11:43 GMT -5
Coaching malpractice.
That’s not something I ever thought I’d say about this staff, but what we saw was inexplicable.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 6, 2018 19:15:12 GMT -5
So true and so concerning moving forward.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2018 21:30:31 GMT -5
LOL McDaniels coming back to the Pats, what the heck is going on? He had hired 3 assistants with the Colts as well who are already in that organization, this is not what I'd call morally acceptable.
Unless there's something missing.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2018 23:31:07 GMT -5
I guess you can say pretty definitively we know the identity of the next Head Coach of the Patriots once Belichick does retire. I think they're grooming McDaniels for the job, so in that regard the Patriots do have a clear line of succession.
Of course we thought at one point they might have had that too in a QB when it looked like eventually Jimmy G would ultimately succeed Brady, but Brady decided to play better than ever for a little while longer so the identity of the next starting QB is still unknown as that player is not in the organization.
Well at least one question is answered. I'm glad McDaniels is sticking around. If Patricia was on-board with the plan to sit Butler then I'm fine with him being gone. That was an atrocious defense they played during the superbowl.
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Post by marrcus on Feb 7, 2018 1:43:41 GMT -5
I haven't seen it yet but I've heard it reported that Brady has tweeted in support of Butler. If it's accurate that would be a rebuke of Bill that you would never expect.
As for the McDaniels flip I have to believe that Kraft must have assured him that BB will be in his final year.I don't think it's about money.
If I was Kraft I would insist on draft approval given the way BB has handled the JimmyG transaction and the Butler benching. Both were unacceptable. I am not suggesting that BobK have anything to do with the pick. This team is in need of transitional moves and as owner I would like to know what the plans were. Kraft can not be happy with either the JimmyG deal or Butler affair.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 7, 2018 4:29:49 GMT -5
Hyperbole
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 7, 2018 7:38:53 GMT -5
It's really unprofessional to hire people and make them move only to back out of the deal at the last second. That's not how a real man/woman would do it.
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Post by costpet on Feb 7, 2018 8:04:30 GMT -5
I think what scared him off was the condition of Luck. Luck might not be ready next year or ever. No one knows. So, going into that kind of situation, where he would be guaranteed a losing season or two, gave him second thoughts. Plus, Kraft sweetened his pay check and assured him the long term plan of him being the next head coach of the Pats. He also mentioned something about moving his family, but I don't think that was high on his list. The bottom line is that someday he will take over a really great organization and continue to be able to win. Kraft sat him down, told him all of that, then added a million or two to his salary. How do you say no to that?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 7, 2018 8:10:31 GMT -5
I think what scared him off was the condition of Luck. Luck might not be ready next year or ever. No one knows. So, going into that kind of situation, where he would be guaranteed a losing season or two, gave him second thoughts. Plus, Kraft sweetened his pay check and assured him the long term plan of him being the next head coach of the Pats. He also mentioned something about moving his family, but I don't think that was high on his list. The bottom line is that someday he will take over a really great organization and continue to be able to win. Kraft sat him down, told him all of that, then added a million or two to his salary. How do you say no to that? It's not hard to say no if Brady won't be around for it. The next Pats coach isn't going to be in a great situation to put it lightly with a fanbase that expects Super Bowl wins and no quarterback. But good for McDaniels anyway if that's what he wants. |
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