SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Patriots 2017 season thread
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 31, 2017 15:02:32 GMT -5
Based on Belichick's quotes today and Albert Breer's reporting, sounds like one main reason the Patriots traded Garoppolo now as opposed to over the offseason was they they genuinely wanted to and thought they had a good chance of re-signing him. |
|
|
|
Post by kingofthetrill on Oct 31, 2017 19:10:48 GMT -5
I'm more surprised that they traded him for an asset that won't help the team win this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 31, 2017 23:15:54 GMT -5
The Hoyer thing is a good point. It really shows you how bad they messed this up. They had almost no leverage because without Hoyer I don't know if you can make a trade. So it really limited the teams to one team. Wonderful.
The Bengals were going to give up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for AJ, yet the Browns messed even that up. AJ is a free agent just like Jimmy. Browns finally caught a break, that looked to be a bad trade. I like a few of the Browns young QBs, yet they have no WRs or OL. It's a joke really. They do have Coleman who I like, but he is always injured. Get some protection and weapons for your QBs. Tom Brady would struggle to get that team a few wins. Jimmy is lucky. Goes to a good offensive coach and they have a few weapons. Unlike my guy Kizer, why couldn't they just sit him for a year. The Browns just made AJ a ton of money. No way he looked good on that team.
So I just don't get the process. How on earth couldn't they work this stuff out in the offseason? A young guy wanting to play, it's not shocking. Tom Brady keeps talking about how long he wants to play. The writing was on the wall. When they didn't trade him at first I thought they had worked out a plan to keep him. Not just hope we can get a young player to sign long-term to play backup to the greatest QB ever. A guy that keeps talking about playing 3 or more years. I get keeping him for insurance, or keeping him at all cost as the future QB, I don't get this. Let's not sell high on a big asset because we hope we can workout an extension so a young guy won't play.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Nov 1, 2017 6:00:04 GMT -5
I get why Bill didn’t trade him in the offseason. We do not know what the contract extension talks were like but Bill obviously thought there was a chance it could get done. Do you blame bill for that or Jimmy and his agent or is it just one of those things?
The fact is, the QB spot is by far the most important in all of sports. If Bill believed in Jimmy he had to do everything possible to keep him even if that means not maximizing the return on him in trade. It’s way too important and cannot be looked at the same way you would another position.
|
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Nov 1, 2017 7:09:35 GMT -5
The Hoyer thing is a good point. It really shows you how bad they messed this up. They had almost no leverage because without Hoyer I don't know if you can make a trade. So it really limited the teams to one team. Wonderful. The Bengals were going to give up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for AJ, yet the Browns messed even that up. AJ is a free agent just like Jimmy. Browns finally caught a break, that looked to be a bad trade. I like a few of the Browns young QBs, yet they have no WRs or OL. It's a joke really. They do have Coleman who I like, but he is always injured. Get some protection and weapons for your QBs. Tom Brady would struggle to get that team a few wins. Jimmy is lucky. Goes to a good offensive coach and they have a few weapons. Unlike my guy Kizer, why couldn't they just sit him for a year. The Browns just made AJ a ton of money. No way he looked good on that team. So I just don't get the process. How on earth couldn't they work this stuff out in the offseason? A young guy wanting to play, it's not shocking. Tom Brady keeps talking about how long he wants to play. The writing was on the wall. When they didn't trade him at first I thought they had worked out a plan to keep him. Not just hope we can get a young player to sign long-term to play backup to the greatest QB ever. A guy that keeps talking about playing 3 or more years. I get keeping him for insurance, or keeping him at all cost as the future QB, I don't get this. Let's not sell high on a big asset because we hope we can workout an extension so a young guy won't play. I think Bill played this situation as best as he could. In the spring the pats had an ace to play by trading JG. Several teams needed qb's. Brady is another year older. When does his skill set fall off the cliff? Bill really thought he had a chance to sign JG and delayed it as long as he could. If he did not think he had a good chance Bill would not have traded Brissett. So the answer then and thru the summer was I can keep them both. Now, the need for starting qb's is REALLY high. Brady is playing like the Brady of old. The defense has been clobbered with injuries. JG's agent see's a huge pay day coming next spring. Making it difficult for the pats to sign him. Brady still seems to be the super bowl player with no signs of letting up. Brady is also the only one available to lead the team to the super bowl and overcome the short comings of the defense. End result is Bill took what he could get cause now he can not afford to keep them both. A second round pick, that will be very high, and the high probability of getting Hoyer, who is familiar with the system. Hoyer right now has higher value to Bill than a 3rd next year and getting someone else to play backup, because they are still trying to win the super bowl this year. Then next spring they will have to worry about the qb situation. Very risky plan. But probably the best available to the pats with a chance to play for the super bowl this year. How many more chances do you get with Brady? If they do not get hoyer the level of risk jumps much higher and yes they probably should have called the browns. |
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2017 7:20:44 GMT -5
Trading Brissett also looks like a worse move now.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Nov 1, 2017 10:10:21 GMT -5
They clearly didn’t think the Jacoby could be the guy.
I expect the pick they got from San Fran to be used on a QB in some way shape or form.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 1, 2017 10:33:49 GMT -5
The Hoyer thing is a good point. It really shows you how bad they messed this up. They had almost no leverage because without Hoyer I don't know if you can make a trade. So it really limited the teams to one team. Wonderful. The Bengals were going to give up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for AJ, yet the Browns messed even that up. AJ is a free agent just like Jimmy. Browns finally caught a break, that looked to be a bad trade. I like a few of the Browns young QBs, yet they have no WRs or OL. It's a joke really. They do have Coleman who I like, but he is always injured. Get some protection and weapons for your QBs. Tom Brady would struggle to get that team a few wins. Jimmy is lucky. Goes to a good offensive coach and they have a few weapons. Unlike my guy Kizer, why couldn't they just sit him for a year. The Browns just made AJ a ton of money. No way he looked good on that team. So I just don't get the process. How on earth couldn't they work this stuff out in the offseason? A young guy wanting to play, it's not shocking. Tom Brady keeps talking about how long he wants to play. The writing was on the wall. When they didn't trade him at first I thought they had worked out a plan to keep him. Not just hope we can get a young player to sign long-term to play backup to the greatest QB ever. A guy that keeps talking about playing 3 or more years. I get keeping him for insurance, or keeping him at all cost as the future QB, I don't get this. Let's not sell high on a big asset because we hope we can workout an extension so a young guy won't play. I think Bill played this situation as best as he could. In the spring the pats had an ace to play by trading JG. Several teams needed qb's. Brady is another year older. When does his skill set fall off the cliff? Bill really thought he had a chance to sign JG and delayed it as long as he could. If he did not think he had a good chance Bill would not have traded Brissett. So the answer then and thru the summer was I can keep them both. Now, the need for starting qb's is REALLY high. Brady is playing like the Brady of old. The defense has been clobbered with injuries. JG's agent see's a huge pay day coming next spring. Making it difficult for the pats to sign him. Brady still seems to be the super bowl player with no signs of letting up. Brady is also the only one available to lead the team to the super bowl and overcome the short comings of the defense. End result is Bill took what he could get cause now he can not afford to keep them both. A second round pick, that will be very high, and the high probability of getting Hoyer, who is familiar with the system. Hoyer right now has higher value to Bill than a 3rd next year and getting someone else to play backup, because they are still trying to win the super bowl this year. Then next spring they will have to worry about the qb situation. Very risky plan. But probably the best available to the pats with a chance to play for the super bowl this year. How many more chances do you get with Brady? If they do not get hoyer the level of risk jumps much higher and yes they probably should have called the browns. I wanted to trade Jimmy in the offseason. One of the main reasons was to add as much talent as we could for Brady's last years. Bill thinking he could sign Jimmy was a mistake. Let's be frank, the wanting to play thing didn't just come from no where for Jimmy. The Pats new this. Really the only way this would have worked is if you did what the Packers did. Move on from Brady, after this year or maybe after next year. He was never going to sign away his prime years when he has no clue when Brady will retire. |
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Nov 1, 2017 11:35:06 GMT -5
I think Bill played this situation as best as he could. In the spring the pats had an ace to play by trading JG. Several teams needed qb's. Brady is another year older. When does his skill set fall off the cliff? Bill really thought he had a chance to sign JG and delayed it as long as he could. If he did not think he had a good chance Bill would not have traded Brissett. So the answer then and thru the summer was I can keep them both. Now, the need for starting qb's is REALLY high. Brady is playing like the Brady of old. The defense has been clobbered with injuries. JG's agent see's a huge pay day coming next spring. Making it difficult for the pats to sign him. Brady still seems to be the super bowl player with no signs of letting up. Brady is also the only one available to lead the team to the super bowl and overcome the short comings of the defense. End result is Bill took what he could get cause now he can not afford to keep them both. A second round pick, that will be very high, and the high probability of getting Hoyer, who is familiar with the system. Hoyer right now has higher value to Bill than a 3rd next year and getting someone else to play backup, because they are still trying to win the super bowl this year. Then next spring they will have to worry about the qb situation. Very risky plan. But probably the best available to the pats with a chance to play for the super bowl this year. How many more chances do you get with Brady? If they do not get hoyer the level of risk jumps much higher and yes they probably should have called the browns. I wanted to trade Jimmy in the offseason. One of the main reasons was to add as much talent as we could for Brady's last years. Bill thinking he could sign Jimmy was a mistake. Let's be frank, the wanting to play thing didn't just come from no where for Jimmy. The Pats new this. Really the only way this would have worked is if you did what the Packers did. Move on from Brady, after this year or maybe after next year. He was never going to sign away his prime years when he has no clue when Brady will retire. WOW very bold statement. You going to be the guy who stands up in front of the fans and the media and says we have cut ties with Brady? That's assuming you get it by Kraft first. Of course Jimmy wanted to start. The pats would not have wanted him so bad if wanted to be a second stringer all his career. If Bill in April was sure that Brady was going to play like he has so far this season I am sure he would have traded Jimmy. But, who knows when a player will hit the cliff where they fall off skill wise. No metrics can tell you that. In hind sight it looks like Bill could have made a better deal. I do not think I would want to be Bill at the weekly press conference trying to explain why Brady is playing as well has he has so far this season , for someone else, and Jimmy is struggling. Having an icon nearing the end of their career is always tough to handle. |
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Nov 1, 2017 11:49:56 GMT -5
I think Bill wanted to see what Brady had left this season. If he was clearly going down hill, they would have signed Jimmy long term and let Brady go after this season. When he saw Brady hadn't missed a step, it was okay to let Jimmy go. I think Bill looked at Tommy and saw another 2 years at a high level. That gives them time to develop someone else in year 3 or 4. They have the draft picks to do that in a good qb draft class.
On the other hand, if Brady goes down in the next few games, the season is done. Cross your fingers and toes.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 1, 2017 14:03:55 GMT -5
I wanted to trade Jimmy in the offseason. One of the main reasons was to add as much talent as we could for Brady's last years. Bill thinking he could sign Jimmy was a mistake. Let's be frank, the wanting to play thing didn't just come from no where for Jimmy. The Pats new this. Really the only way this would have worked is if you did what the Packers did. Move on from Brady, after this year or maybe after next year. He was never going to sign away his prime years when he has no clue when Brady will retire. WOW very bold statement. You going to be the guy who stands up in front of the fans and the media and says we have cut ties with Brady? That's assuming you get it by Kraft first. Of course Jimmy wanted to start. The pats would not have wanted him so bad if wanted to be a second stringer all his career. If Bill in April was sure that Brady was going to play like he has so far this season I am sure he would have traded Jimmy. But, who knows when a player will hit the cliff where they fall off skill wise. No metrics can tell you that. In hind sight it looks like Bill could have made a better deal. I do not think I would want to be Bill at the weekly press conference trying to explain why Brady is playing as well has he has so far this season , for someone else, and Jimmy is struggling. Having an icon nearing the end of their career is always tough to handle. Not at all, but unless Bill was going to do that he should have traded Jimmy. I always said they will never kick Brady to the curb, for Jimmy that is a huge problem. I don't get the we kept Brady to make sure he didn't fall off a cliff. If that was the case you keep Jimmy. Franchise him, because in reality Brady could fall off a cliff at anytime. |
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Nov 2, 2017 6:44:43 GMT -5
WOW very bold statement. You going to be the guy who stands up in front of the fans and the media and says we have cut ties with Brady? That's assuming you get it by Kraft first. Of course Jimmy wanted to start. The pats would not have wanted him so bad if wanted to be a second stringer all his career. If Bill in April was sure that Brady was going to play like he has so far this season I am sure he would have traded Jimmy. But, who knows when a player will hit the cliff where they fall off skill wise. No metrics can tell you that. In hind sight it looks like Bill could have made a better deal. I do not think I would want to be Bill at the weekly press conference trying to explain why Brady is playing as well has he has so far this season , for someone else, and Jimmy is struggling. Having an icon nearing the end of their career is always tough to handle. Not at all, but unless Bill was going to do that he should have traded Jimmy. I always said they will never kick Brady to the curb, for Jimmy that is a huge problem. I don't get the we kept Brady to make sure he didn't fall off a cliff. If that was the case you keep Jimmy. Franchise him, because in reality Brady could fall off a cliff at anytime. I believe if you franchise him you would be paying $20 plus mil for a backup qb. Big chunk of money against the cap to a backup. Very true Tom could fall off at anytime. But the pats are playing for this year. With what they know now, this is their best chance to win. Bill is now delaying the qb question until next spring. You are already building a bridge to the next qb after Brady with the 3 yr deal for hoyer. Hoyer is an NFL qb but probably not good enough to win the super bowl. I think at this stage Bill deserves the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing. We still do not really know whether Jimmy is a NFL franchise qb. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Nov 2, 2017 9:50:41 GMT -5
The Patriots really need to nail some draft picks in this next draft. You can only have so many mediocre drafts before your team is depleted a few years later. Accounting for the trade of Brissett (which doesn't look good), Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Malcolm Mitchell, Derek Rivers, and Antonio Garcia are five of the top six NE draft picks over the past two years. They are all likely out for the season with injuries, and several are on their way out of the league.
I don't understand all this Tom Brady falling off a cliff talk. Brady's arm is as strong as ever, and he would be a serviceable starter even without it (see Philip Rivers).
I'm more concerned with the Patriots inability to acquire healthy and long term contributors through the draft.
|
|
|
|
Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 2, 2017 11:56:50 GMT -5
The Patriots really need to nail some draft picks in this next draft. You can only have so many mediocre drafts before your team is depleted a few years later. Accounting for the trade of Brissett (which doesn't look good), Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Malcolm Mitchell, Derek Rivers, and Antonio Garcia are five of the top six NE draft picks over the past two years. They are all likely out for the season with injuries, and several are on their way out of the league. I don't understand all this Tom Brady falling off a cliff talk. Brady's arm is as strong as ever, and he would be a serviceable starter even without it (see Philip Rivers). I'm more concerned with the Patriots inability to acquire healthy and long term contributors through the draft.[/b] I agree with the larger point, they need to hit on the next few draft classes, but I'm not worried about their ability to draft based on the past few classes. Between the traded picks and the stripped picks they haven't exactly been in a position to nail the draft the past few years. Of the picks you named only Cyrus looks like a true bust, and only Mitchell has an injury situation that causes real concern for his future (beyond missing valuable development time). Another way of looking at it is Rivers and Garcia are bonus talents for the next crop of rookies, and both should be at full strength next season. When you don't have first round picks and you pick at the end of the rounds you need to gamble on sketchy health situations sometimes, but even having said that it's not like all these guys were red flagged with injuries, they've had some bad luck too. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 2, 2017 12:30:21 GMT -5
Not at all, but unless Bill was going to do that he should have traded Jimmy. I always said they will never kick Brady to the curb, for Jimmy that is a huge problem. I don't get the we kept Brady to make sure he didn't fall off a cliff. If that was the case you keep Jimmy. Franchise him, because in reality Brady could fall off a cliff at anytime. I believe if you franchise him you would be paying $20 plus mil for a backup qb. Big chunk of money against the cap to a backup. Very true Tom could fall off at anytime. But the pats are playing for this year. With what they know now, this is their best chance to win. Bill is now delaying the qb question until next spring. You are already building a bridge to the next qb after Brady with the 3 yr deal for hoyer. Hoyer is an NFL qb but probably not good enough to win the super bowl. I think at this stage Bill deserves the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing. We still do not really know whether Jimmy is a NFL franchise qb. The franchise cost and winning now are all reasons why he should have been traded in the offseason. I thought the best offer was a first and second from Browns, reports are now saying the #12 pick and most likely a 4th was the best offer. Patriots kept demanding the #12 and another first or their high second. Why Bill is usually right, he does make mistakes and this is one of those rare cases. Bill messed this whole thing up. Hoyer is a good backup QB, but that's about it. You aren't winning a title with him. Jimmy is good enough that Bill played a game he normally doesn't. Don't sell high and just hope you can keep the player. Even though the chances were always tiny that he would stick around with Brady saying he wants to play till he basically can't. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Nov 2, 2017 14:39:37 GMT -5
The Patriots really need to nail some draft picks in this next draft. You can only have so many mediocre drafts before your team is depleted a few years later. Accounting for the trade of Brissett (which doesn't look good), Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Malcolm Mitchell, Derek Rivers, and Antonio Garcia are five of the top six NE draft picks over the past two years. They are all likely out for the season with injuries, and several are on their way out of the league. I don't understand all this Tom Brady falling off a cliff talk. Brady's arm is as strong as ever, and he would be a serviceable starter even without it (see Philip Rivers). I'm more concerned with the Patriots inability to acquire healthy and long term contributors through the draft.[/b] I agree with the larger point, they need to hit on the next few draft classes, but I'm not worried about their ability to draft based on the past few classes. Between the traded picks and the stripped picks they haven't exactly been in a position to nail the draft the past few years. Of the picks you named only Cyrus looks like a true bust, and only Mitchell has an injury situation that causes real concern for his future (beyond missing valuable development time). Another way of looking at it is Rivers and Garcia are bonus talents for the next crop of rookies, and both should be at full strength next season. When you don't have first round picks and you pick at the end of the rounds you need to gamble on sketchy health situations sometimes, but even having said that it's not like all these guys were red flagged with injuries, they've had some bad luck too.[/quote] Yeah, unfortunately the NFL is not a league where you can fumble a couple drafts, injury luck or not. This isn't baseball where you can sign a left side of an infield and be competitive. One major free agent signing is a significant hit on the cap and you still have 52 other positions that need filling due to attrition and impending free agency. You can call it bad luck or bad scouting, but the Patriots need to nail some of these picks or they simply won't have the depth for playoff runs in the near future. Check out the 2006 and 2007 New England Patriots drafts. The only good picks in those drafts were Gostkowski and (reaching) Meriweather. What happens in 2009? 10-6, blown out by Ravens in the Playoffs. |
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Nov 9, 2017 15:41:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2017 16:23:49 GMT -5
Patriots claim TE Martellus Bennett off waivers.
Welcome back big man.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 9, 2017 16:40:27 GMT -5
That is awesome. I wanted them to trade for him. Then he got released and was hoping they would sign him. This is better. He knows the system and Brady trusts him. They have good chemistry. We have been winning but the offense never looked right with Edleman and Mitchell out. Just not enough weapons. Dorsett had that good game, got injured and has done nothing since.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2017 16:57:12 GMT -5
He is making nothing the rest of the year too. 420 thousand or something like that. It's really a no brainer to bring him back.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2017 17:00:39 GMT -5
It affects Kraft mote than anything. The Patriots payroll won't be affected due to this. I'm almost 99 percent sure of that. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Nov 9, 2017 17:04:12 GMT -5
I’m cautiously optimistic but understand this is a guy who’s sucked this year and has stated he’s going to retire after the year. He played motivated last season. If he’s not motivated he’s not going to be any good. It’s just the way it is with football.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 9, 2017 18:17:14 GMT -5
Is there a team or coach that are a better fit? Having a chance to win back to back Superbowls is enough to get almost anyone motivated. He won't be here long if he isn't motivated and we gave up nothing for him. I haven't watched him play this year, but his catches are normal. It's his yards and TDs that are way down. In Bill we trust, makes his move after the deadline and gives up nothing!
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Nov 9, 2017 19:17:07 GMT -5
Is there a team or coach that are a better fit? Having a chance to win back to back Superbowls is enough to get almost anyone motivated. He won't be here long if he isn't motivated and we gave up nothing for him. I haven't watched him play this year, but his catches are normal. It's his yards and TDs that are way down. In Bill we trust, makes his move after the deadline and gives up nothing! I’m very happy they claimed him. I just doubt we are getting the same player from last year. But totally worth the add |
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Nov 10, 2017 6:53:54 GMT -5
Is there a team or coach that are a better fit? Having a chance to win back to back Superbowls is enough to get almost anyone motivated. He won't be here long if he isn't motivated and we gave up nothing for him. I haven't watched him play this year, but his catches are normal. It's his yards and TDs that are way down. In Bill we trust, makes his move after the deadline and gives up nothing! I’m very happy they claimed him. I just doubt we are getting the same player from last year. But totally worth the add Once again, he'll struggle to remain playable while being questionable with nagging injuries every week. |
|
|
