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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 22, 2017 11:02:54 GMT -5
Bill is playing chess and the rest are playing checkers but the Pats do not have the most talent year after year. They win with undrafted FA's, guys from Rutgers and other teams cast offs while most players who leave the Pats don't find the same level of production elsewhere. It is all about coaching players up and BB is the master. The reason why the Pats have been great for all this time is the coaching and the culture, it's called the Patriot Way. They work harder, they are more focused and they love football. As BB says all the time "football is important to him", which is how he describes players. When the goat is the hardest worker on the team and everyone follows suit it is a culture that leads to success. As for the rest of the league, they get outcoached, outworked and out smarted by the Pats. How many games do the Pats give away with stupid play? We were all shocked by the defensive mistakes to start the year. Blown coverages and a leaky front seven. How long did that last? Other teams don't fix those things but the Pats did even with out Hightower. That bad play happens around the league every week. I remember one high profile DB a few years back that didn't make much of an effort on a tackle during the preseason, maybe 5,6 years ago. Like he didn't really want to get his nose in there. I saw it pretty clearly but the announcers said nothing. That guy was cut the following week and he had been in the league starting for another team. Who was the high profile WR from Indy that quit because the Pats practices were too hard? It's the Patriot Way!! or the highway I just don't agree. We have the most talent and the most depth. Our coaching helps gets the most out of them, but the next man up way only works when you have talent. Undrafted guys like Butler, Jones and the rookie Butler this year. We can over come Hightower's injury because we have Van Noy and a solid Vet in Harris on the bench. We are most likely going to let Butler leave and we can because we have Jones. The guy was a burner coming out of College and was rated as a mid to late round pick. We traded Jones, a great talent. The reason was simple, you can't have great depth when paying too many guys mega deals. Bill the GM is just as good as Bill the coach and that's the scary thing. I think this post confused me because you wrote: “I just don’t agree. The Patriots have the most talent and depth...” Now I think you meant to say “I just don’t agree that the Patriots have the best talent and depth.” There is a misplaced period in your post. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 22, 2017 13:49:13 GMT -5
I'm the other guy and I never said players were bad. But if you don't think there is a talent difference between undrafted FA's and guys out of Rutgers vs high draft picks and players from out of the SEC well I really don't know what to say. I am pretty sure teams around the league universally covet there draft picks especially the high ones. The Pats have pretty much gone without high picks and have had a few taken away yet they win year in year out. Yes the Pats have better depth because of how BB manages the cap but the performance of the team and the players has more to do with coaching than pure talent. BB is one of those guys that can beat you with his and he can beat you with yours. Except of course for Brady. Undrafted guys can easily be better than 1st round picks. The whole way you are looking at this is wrong. Where a player was drafted and what school they come from doesn't matter. Only how good the players are. McCourty and Harmon are Rutger guys. Andrews our starting center was undrafted out of the SEC, Adam Butler undrafted from SEC. Malcolm Butler undrafted and better than handfuls of first and second round picks, out of South Alabama. A stud like Flowers in 4th round, a very good young player in Wise in the 4th round. Bill is just better at finding good players late in draft or after the draft than other teams are. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 22, 2017 13:50:11 GMT -5
I just don't agree. We have the most talent and the most depth. Our coaching helps gets the most out of them, but the next man up way only works when you have talent. Undrafted guys like Butler, Jones and the rookie Butler this year. We can over come Hightower's injury because we have Van Noy and a solid Vet in Harris on the bench. We are most likely going to let Butler leave and we can because we have Jones. The guy was a burner coming out of College and was rated as a mid to late round pick. We traded Jones, a great talent. The reason was simple, you can't have great depth when paying too many guys mega deals. Bill the GM is just as good as Bill the coach and that's the scary thing. I think this post confused me because you wrote: “I just don’t agree. The Patriots have the most talent and depth...” Now I think you meant to say “I just don’t agree that the Patriots have the best talent and depth.” There is a misplaced period in your post. Nope. I meant what was said. |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 22, 2017 15:26:11 GMT -5
I'm the other guy and I never said players were bad. But if you don't think there is a talent difference between undrafted FA's and guys out of Rutgers vs high draft picks and players from out of the SEC well I really don't know what to say. I am pretty sure teams around the league universally covet there draft picks especially the high ones. The Pats have pretty much gone without high picks and have had a few taken away yet they win year in year out. Yes the Pats have better depth because of how BB manages the cap but the performance of the team and the players has more to do with coaching than pure talent. BB is one of those guys that can beat you with his and he can beat you with yours. Except of course for Brady. Undrafted guys can easily be better than 1st round picks. The whole way you are looking at this is wrong. Where a player was drafted and what school they come from doesn't matter. Only how good the players are. McCourty and Harmon are Rutger guys. Andrews our starting center was undrafted out of the SEC, Adam Butler undrafted from SEC. Malcolm Butler undrafted and better than handfuls of first and second round picks, out of South Alabama. A stud like Flowers in 4th round, a very good young player in Wise in the 4th round. Bill is just better at finding good players late in draft or after the draft than other teams are. Bill is also pretty terrible at finding good players early in the draft. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 22, 2017 16:08:32 GMT -5
Undrafted guys can easily be better than 1st round picks. The whole way you are looking at this is wrong. Where a player was drafted and what school they come from doesn't matter. Only how good the players are. McCourty and Harmon are Rutger guys. Andrews our starting center was undrafted out of the SEC, Adam Butler undrafted from SEC. Malcolm Butler undrafted and better than handfuls of first and second round picks, out of South Alabama. A stud like Flowers in 4th round, a very good young player in Wise in the 4th round. Bill is just better at finding good players late in draft or after the draft than other teams are. Bill is also pretty terrible at finding good players early in the draft. His record in the first round is as good as it gets. Sure he has some duds, but that is going to happen. He has made a bunch of so-so picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, but he stocks up on those picks and because of that overdrafts players. At the same time he has picked a ton of good players in those rounds. Bill also adjusts. He clearly realized that he was overdrafting guys with all those higher picks and lately has been moving down and stocking up on mid round picks. Overall Bill realizes draft picks are a lottery ticket. So the more the better. In his eyes 4 4th round picks will give you more than a late first round pick will or two second round picks instead of a first rounder. Now other teams have tried this, but it only works if you can judge talent. He's the only guy that trades out of the first round because he doesn't believe there is first round talent there. Then will trade up if there is value. The way he controls the draft is a thing of beauty. He finds the value and goes after it. Nevermind has any team received more value from trading picks for players? Year after year, he turns draft picks into Vets. He creates so much depth that he ends up cutting a bunch of players. Thing is thats what he wants. More competition and depth in case of injury. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 23, 2017 21:40:04 GMT -5
I'm the other guy and I never said players were bad. But if you don't think there is a talent difference between undrafted FA's and guys out of Rutgers vs high draft picks and players from out of the SEC well I really don't know what to say. I am pretty sure teams around the league universally covet there draft picks especially the high ones. The Pats have pretty much gone without high picks and have had a few taken away yet they win year in year out. Yes the Pats have better depth because of how BB manages the cap but the performance of the team and the players has more to do with coaching than pure talent. BB is one of those guys that can beat you with his and he can beat you with yours. Except of course for Brady. Undrafted guys can easily be better than 1st round picks. The whole way you are looking at this is wrong. Where a player was drafted and what school they come from doesn't matter. Only how good the players are. McCourty and Harmon are Rutger guys. Andrews our starting center was undrafted out of the SEC, Adam Butler undrafted from SEC. Malcolm Butler undrafted and better than handfuls of first and second round picks, out of South Alabama. A stud like Flowers in 4th round, a very good young player in Wise in the 4th round. Bill is just better at finding good players late in draft or after the draft than other teams are. Undrafted guys can easily be better than 1st round picks!! I wonder on a percentage basis how often that happens?? I guess teams should just get rid of there scouting depts. How many undrafted free agents would you like for your 1st round pick Mr Dumbass GM? I will give you all the undrafted FA's that you want for your 1st rounder what do you say? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 24, 2017 0:04:06 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000567319www.dailynorseman.com/2017/4/12/15274148/most-nfl-draft-picks-are-bustswww.denverpost.com/2013/10/12/nfl-full-of-players-who-go-from-undrafted-to-unstoppable/You can call me names all you want, but the facts are the facts. Now things differ from draft to draft, but I would say on average you will have certain undrafted guys out performing 25 to 50 % of first round picks. NFL picks bust at a very high rate, even first round picks and there are sooo many more undrafted guys it's simply a numbers game. First round picks are safer overall, but the number of solid to good to great undrafted guys every year is a lot higher than you think. Look at the article I posted showing the quality of undrafted guys on only a few teams. Add in the Patriots guys now. Add in the rest of the league. Judging talent based off draft position or former school is a very bad way at judging how good those players are and how much depth that team has. The Patriots don't have good depth because because they have a bunch of undrafted guys and guys from Rutgers is about as bad a way to judge a team as you can get. Our two Rutger guys are quality players that can start for tons of teams. Our undrafted players are quality players that can play for tons of teams. Malcolm Butler is waaay better than Jutin Gilbert, even though Gilbert was a high first round pick. Your idea about first round picks is laughable and doesn't even make sense. You can't trade undrafted free agents, they are free agents and can sign with any team. Nevermind my point was very simple undrafted free agents can be quality players and easily better than first round picks. You get one first round pick and you sign 30-40 undrafted free agents. Out of those 40 guys you find the best 2-3 players every year. The Patriots seem to get one to two starters every year from undrafted guys.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 25, 2017 9:43:41 GMT -5
I’ve kind of lost this conversation but judging how good or talented a guy is during his career based on his rating coming out of college is silly. Why don’t we just go back to their college recruiting ratings while we are at it?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 27, 2017 5:37:34 GMT -5
I really hope that the Patriots and Dion Lewis can find a number that they can come to a extension with. He's having a elite season. Who knows how much other teams will value Lewis with his injury history, but I love watching the guy run with the football. Must see t.v. is what Dion Lewis is.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 4, 2017 13:19:49 GMT -5
That Gronk hit sure is getting a lot of air time today. It was definitely a stupid move after frustration boiled over, but some people are acting like it was premeditated murder. He'll get a huge fine, and if he's suspended next week, it's not a huge deal. If he gets more than that it'll just be another opportunity for the NFL to make an example of the Patriots with no precedent.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451 
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Post by ianrs on Dec 4, 2017 15:18:15 GMT -5
That Gronk hit sure is getting a lot of air time today. It was definitely a stupid move after frustration boiled over, but some people are acting like it was premeditated murder. He'll get a huge fine, and if he's suspended next week, it's not a huge deal. If he gets more than that it'll just be another opportunity for the NFL to make an example of the Patriots with no precedent. Meh, it was pretty screwed up and bordered on assault honestly. I hope he's punished accordingly. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 4, 2017 15:33:07 GMT -5
Gronk suspended one game for the late hit.
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Post by costpet on Dec 4, 2017 15:43:25 GMT -5
Whew. At least he won’t be hurt for the Pittsburgh game. He will never do that again. The good thing he is now making the refs aware of all the holding against him every game.. maybe they’ll start calling it.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 4, 2017 19:30:01 GMT -5
That Gronk hit sure is getting a lot of air time today. It was definitely a stupid move after frustration boiled over, but some people are acting like it was premeditated murder. He'll get a huge fine, and if he's suspended next week, it's not a huge deal. If he gets more than that it'll just be another opportunity for the NFL to make an example of the Patriots with no precedent. Meh, it was pretty screwed up and bordered on assault honestly. I hope he's punished accordingly. I've seen this a lot today and I'm not really sure why. It's Football. 95% of plays result in an interaction that would constitute as assault if a stranger came up to you in the street and touched you in the same manner. I've also seen it referred to as the most egregious hit in the NFL this year by a handful of people who apparently have never seen Vontaze Burfict play football. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 5, 2017 7:24:34 GMT -5
Sorry that Gronk hit was dirty - he was frustrated and got mugged again (should have been pass interference on White) and Gronk got pissed there wasn’t a flag AND the guy got the INT. He reacted and did something stupid that fortunately didn’t turn into a major injury. He should have been thrown out of the game - fined and suspended a game. He handled it correctly post game - not making excuses and apologizing. He’s not a dirty player but the NFL can’t let those things happen. Imagine if Brady was on the ground like that and some lineman did that same thing to him? Can’t have that stuff regardless of if it happens or not.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 5, 2017 7:27:04 GMT -5
The Patriots likely have to win out to take the 1 seed. I worry about this weekends game against the dolphins. We always seem to struggle in Miami and they are terrible covering tight ends and now we don’t have our tight end target - plus we don’t have many wide receivers so offensively I’m sure we will try to run the ball a lot. That may be difficult when Miami knows we have to.
Hollister is going to show up this week with 5 catches
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Post by costpet on Dec 8, 2017 9:03:40 GMT -5
Miami might ignore our tight ends As no threat. Bill might take advantage of that. Hollister can catch, like we saw in preseason. You never can count on Bill to do what you think he’ll do. Anyway, should be an interesting game with a lot at stake. Then comes the biggest game of the year.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 8, 2017 9:32:04 GMT -5
Hogan might play, he's back at practice (limited). That could help.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2017 17:09:40 GMT -5
Patriots close to reaching a 2 year deal with Kenny Britt. Not a bad idea to add a bigger WR that has made big plays in the past.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 12, 2017 18:18:29 GMT -5
I feel like BB just control F's "Rutgers" and then goes back to work.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 12, 2017 18:43:59 GMT -5
Patriots close to reaching a 2 year deal with Kenny Britt. Not a bad idea to add a bigger WR that has made big plays in the past. I have a hard time believing that he could contribute anything this season. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 17, 2017 19:06:16 GMT -5
Can Superman come back with 2 minutes to go, down by 5?!!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 17, 2017 19:15:48 GMT -5
Can Superman come back with 2 minutes to go, down by 5?!!! And the Patriots clown defensive unit gives up 2 plays for a touchdown. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 17, 2017 19:19:42 GMT -5
Can Superman come back with 2 minutes to go, down by 5?!!! And the Patriots clown defensive unit gives up 2 plays for a touchdown. WIN LOL!!!! |
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 17, 2017 19:22:48 GMT -5
Had it all the way. Just wanna say "HAHAHAHA" to any Steelers whiners.
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