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2018 Red Sox roster building
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Post by carl4sox on Jan 1, 2018 16:44:07 GMT -5
Why not Nick Castellanos?
From MLB Trade Rumors today:
"The Tigers pursued an extension with outfielder Nicholas Castellanos “to no avail” following the 2017 season, MLB.com’s Jason Beck reports. The 25-year-old slugger (26 in March) posted a very solid .272/.320/.490 batting line in a breakout campaign at the plate and gave the Tigers room for further optimism; Castellanos ranked fifth in the Majors in hard-contact rate (among qualified hitters), and Statcast credited him for the 10th-highest number of barreled balls in MLB. He has a projected arbitration salary of $7.6MM, per MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz, and is still under club control for another two seasons. Defensive question marks abound with Castellanos, as he’s rated poorly both at third base and in right field, but there’s plenty of value in his bat. The inability to come to terms on an extension only furthers the chance that the rebuilding Tigers trade Castellanos before he reaches free agency."
What would it take? I think I'd prefer him to JDM or Manny. No huge financial considerations at this point. Let him be the DH?
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 1, 2018 17:39:17 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 1, 2018 19:20:08 GMT -5
Why not Nick Castellanos? From MLB Trade Rumors today: "The Tigers pursued an extension with outfielder Nicholas Castellanos “to no avail” following the 2017 season, MLB.com’s Jason Beck reports. The 25-year-old slugger (26 in March) posted a very solid .272/.320/.490 batting line in a breakout campaign at the plate and gave the Tigers room for further optimism; Castellanos ranked fifth in the Majors in hard-contact rate (among qualified hitters), and Statcast credited him for the 10th-highest number of barreled balls in MLB. He has a projected arbitration salary of $7.6MM, per MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz, and is still under club control for another two seasons. Defensive question marks abound with Castellanos, as he’s rated poorly both at third base and in right field, but there’s plenty of value in his bat. The inability to come to terms on an extension only furthers the chance that the rebuilding Tigers trade Castellanos before he reaches free agency." What would it take? I think I'd prefer him to JDM or Manny. No huge financial considerations at this point. Let him be the DH? Castellanos is a 1.5 WAR guy who's about to start making real money in arbitration. He should call the Tigers back about that extension. (re: his Statcast numbers, there's a lot of talk that the gun was hot in Detroit this year. Miguel Cabrera was playing with two herniated discs this year and he certainly hit like it, but he had good Statcast numbers as well.) |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 1, 2018 21:39:05 GMT -5
Start believing the Machado rumors, I guess. The White Sox make sense. They could use his production in 2 years when they are probably ready to start contending again. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 1, 2018 22:22:02 GMT -5
Why not Nick Castellanos? From MLB Trade Rumors today: "The Tigers pursued an extension with outfielder Nicholas Castellanos “to no avail” following the 2017 season, MLB.com’s Jason Beck reports. The 25-year-old slugger (26 in March) posted a very solid .272/.320/.490 batting line in a breakout campaign at the plate and gave the Tigers room for further optimism; Castellanos ranked fifth in the Majors in hard-contact rate (among qualified hitters), and Statcast credited him for the 10th-highest number of barreled balls in MLB. He has a projected arbitration salary of $7.6MM, per MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz, and is still under club control for another two seasons. Defensive question marks abound with Castellanos, as he’s rated poorly both at third base and in right field, but there’s plenty of value in his bat. The inability to come to terms on an extension only furthers the chance that the rebuilding Tigers trade Castellanos before he reaches free agency." What would it take? I think I'd prefer him to JDM or Manny. No huge financial considerations at this point. Let him be the DH? Not a horrible option. His bat is very good for 3B or even the OF, but it's not great for a DH. Unless you think it's going to improve. Most likely he cost 2 years 18 million or something like that. So the money is ok, but you then need to trade for him. The Tigers won't give him away, they probably want a good amount for him. So for me you can get more cost effective options for that money, without trading anything. An example would be Duda. If you didn't have to trade for him I wouldn't mind adding him if you were saving your money for super star over Martinez. |
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danr
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Post by danr on Jan 1, 2018 23:05:40 GMT -5
I've been a lifelong Sox fan but I also am a Baltimore fan, just not nearly as fanatical. I went to college and law school in Baltimore and married a Baltimore girl. When I was with United Press International in Baltimore I covered the Oriole World Series in 1966, 69 and 71. A feature I did on the Orioles in 1969 was reprinted in the World Series Program. I was at the game when Ripken broke the consecutive game record. Now that I am in Oregon, I am losing touch with the Orioles, but not with the Sox - and I am not going to become a Mariners fan! I hope Portland gets an expansion team. This is a fast-growing, dynamic and very progressive city.
The Orioles screwed up by not trading Machado sooner. With only one year before FA, no team with any sense is going to make a strong offer because he almost certainly will test free agency. I would not trade Bogaerts for him. I wouldn't trade anybody for him. He won't be around in another year. It would be a total waste of resources.
Also, I think there is a fair chance that Bogaerts will be better than Machado in a couple of years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 2, 2018 1:27:37 GMT -5
I don't know about the fact that Xander could ever be better than Machado at the short stop position, either defensively or offensively. Machado is a massive upgrade when healthy over Xander. You can question his knees all you want going into his 30's and that's fair, but Xander is only a year younger than Manny. I'd take Machado's ceiling over Xander's any day of the week. Manny is a superstar, Xander is a good player.
As to Umass's post, signing Mitch Moreland and Duda to multi-year contracts would be a massive fail to the off-season. Just no way around that.
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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jan 2, 2018 1:45:11 GMT -5
I don't know about the fact that Xander could ever be better than Machado at the short stop position, either defensively or offensively. Machado is a massive upgrade when healthy over Xander. You can question his knees all you want going into his 30's and that's fair, but Xander is only a year younger than Manny. I'd take Machado's ceiling over Xander's any day of the week. Manny is a superstar, Xander is a good player. As to Umass's post, signing Mitch Moreland and Duda to multi-year contracts would be a massive fail to the off-season. Just no way around that. I see where you’re coming from, as the Liklihood of that happening and Xander becoming better than machado is not very high. However, when it comes to ceilings, it’s possible machado has hit his already, as you can’t improve much on what he’s done without approaching Harper/trout level, which I don’t think he’s going to become after 5 seasons of pretty consistent output. What makes me think Xander may have not reached his is that he’s shown the ability to hit for both average (.320 is much higher than anything machado has produced) and power, as 21 bombs for a SS is a good number t think he may even improve on- albeit he has shown these abilities in different seasons. With the new hitting coach being the one that improved the dodgers so drastically, If he can put those together than the difference between he and machado is minuscule |
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jan 2, 2018 3:22:23 GMT -5
I don't know about the fact that Xander could ever be better than Machado at the short stop position, either defensively or offensively. Machado is a massive upgrade when healthy over Xander. You can question his knees all you want going into his 30's and that's fair, but Xander is only a year younger than Manny. I'd take Machado's ceiling over Xander's any day of the week. Manny is a superstar, Xander is a good player. As to Umass's post, signing Mitch Moreland and Duda to multi-year contracts would be a massive fail to the off-season. Just no way around that. I think you may be perseverating about Machado who, despite his talent, is very unlikely to come to his least favorite city and team. You have previously talked, at various times, about chemistry and leadership and fiscal responsibility and extending the core, and rebuilding a productive farm. I get wanting a player like Machado on the Red Sox. But having him for one year is a waste of resources. And extending him to a mega long term contract will require tearing apart this amazing winning team and its young core, AND further deplete the farm, all while preventing extensions to the core and creating serious LT issues. IMO the Sox and Machado are, barring a miracle, mutually exclusive at this time. I am truly excited about seeing how this talented home grown core (kids we watched develop) get healthy and back on track as a leading offensive force. Most experts express similar views. I have more confidence in and affection for this Sox team's Rotation and Pen and Bench and the offense and defense of Beni, Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Devers, Pedroia, Vasquez, etc. than most Sox teams during decades of following the Sox. I hope and pray that the Sox cling to our best prospects. If DDo can add JDM's bat to Moreland's 20+HR, 30+ doubles and above average 1B glove, great. If not, then using the money refused by Boras to ADD some combination like Duda at DH + Nunez + RP + Extension #1 to this 93W team would also be great. After such traumas as Crawford, Gonzales, Panda, Hanley, Castillo, Lackey, even Price, Kimbrel, Thornburg, I am pretty sure I would lose interest in a team willing to sacrifice our core or farm or financial flexibility or chemistry for one year or one decade of Machado machismo. In all seriousness, "losing" a dozen top farmhands over the past few years, justified or not, has been painful. Tearing up this core to create a "fantasy baseball" team would be unacceptable. I would sadly cancel the NESN subscription and trade my Red Sox hat and apparel for ones from local colleges and high schools. They could better use my support, their games are fun, and their hot dogs taste just as good at 5x less $$. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 2, 2018 4:05:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised to see Bogaerts become the better hitter between the two. First half of 2016, even the start of 2017 before the injury shows you his upside. At the same time Machado has only hit over .300 at age 17 at rookie ball and low A. Came close in 2016, but I do worry a little bit about him as a hitter for a guy that will cost what he will cost to sign long-term. Overall though I don't see Bogaerts becoming any better than average at SS and Machado most likely would be very good, maybe even great. Lets be real Bogaerts being even average seems like a long shot. Makes me wonder if DD is thinking about Bogaerts playing 2B while Pedroia is out. Might be the best position for him long-term. I just don't know what you then do with Pedroia when he comes back. It's fun to dream about this, but it seems far fetched to say the least.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 2, 2018 8:09:15 GMT -5
I don't know about the fact that Xander could ever be better than Machado at the short stop position, either defensively or offensively. Machado is a massive upgrade when healthy over Xander. You can question his knees all you want going into his 30's and that's fair, but Xander is only a year younger than Manny. I'd take Machado's ceiling over Xander's any day of the week. Manny is a superstar, Xander is a good player. As to Umass's post, signing Mitch Moreland and Duda to multi-year contracts would be a massive fail to the off-season. Just no way around that. I think you may be perseverating about Machado who, despite his talent, is very unlikely to come to his least favorite city and team. You have previously talked, at various times, about chemistry and leadership and fiscal responsibility and extending the core, and rebuilding a productive farm. I get wanting a player like Machado on the Red Sox. But having him for one year is a waste of resources. And extending him to a mega long term contract will require tearing apart this amazing winning team and its young core, AND further deplete the farm, all while preventing extensions to the core and creating serious LT issues. IMO the Sox and Machado are, barring a miracle, mutually exclusive at this time. I am truly excited about seeing how this talented home grown core (kids we watched develop) get healthy and back on track as a leading offensive force. Most experts express similar views. I have more confidence in and affection for this Sox team's Rotation and Pen and Bench and the offense and defense of Beni, Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Devers, Pedroia, Vasquez, etc. than most Sox teams during decades of following the Sox. I hope and pray that the Sox cling to our best prospects. If DDo can add JDM's bat to Moreland's 20+HR, 30+ doubles and above average 1B glove, great. If not, then using the money refused by Boras to ADD some combination like Duda at DH + Nunez + RP + Extension #1 to this 93W team would also be great. The Sox are going to have to face these decisions either way in a year or two. The Sale and Mookie contracts are going to hurt and are going to cripple your payroll. Machado will at least be worth the money if you have it to him. That's what all about for me. Making smart financial decisions, spending money on the players who will be worth the contracts. You can rebuild a farm system with 2 good drafts and 2 good international signing periods (within a year). It takes years and years to get rid of bad contracts. Manny wouldn't and shouldn't be a bad contract. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2018 8:14:32 GMT -5
I think you may be perseverating about Machado who, despite his talent, is very unlikely to come to his least favorite city and team. You have previously talked, at various times, about chemistry and leadership and fiscal responsibility and extending the core, and rebuilding a productive farm. I get wanting a player like Machado on the Red Sox. But having him for one year is a waste of resources. And extending him to a mega long term contract will require tearing apart this amazing winning team and its young core, AND further deplete the farm, all while preventing extensions to the core and creating serious LT issues. IMO the Sox and Machado are, barring a miracle, mutually exclusive at this time. I am truly excited about seeing how this talented home grown core (kids we watched develop) get healthy and back on track as a leading offensive force. Most experts express similar views. I have more confidence in and affection for this Sox team's Rotation and Pen and Bench and the offense and defense of Beni, Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Devers, Pedroia, Vasquez, etc. than most Sox teams during decades of following the Sox. I hope and pray that the Sox cling to our best prospects. If DDo can add JDM's bat to Moreland's 20+HR, 30+ doubles and above average 1B glove, great. If not, then using the money refused by Boras to ADD some combination like Duda at DH + Nunez + RP + Extension #1 to this 93W team would also be great. The Sox are going to have to face these decisions either way in a year or two. The Sale and Mookie contracts are going to hurt and are going to cripple your payroll. Machado will at least be worth the money if you have it to him. That's what all about for me. Making smart financial decisions, spending money on the players who will be worth the contracts. You can rebuild a farm system with 2 good drafts and 2 good international signing periods (within a year). It takes years and years to get rid of bad contracts. Manny wouldn't and shouldn't be a bad contract. How do you know that Machado will be worth his contract when we're talking about an unprecedented contract? He had a 102 wRC+ last year. If he's paid like an 8 WAR player and plays like a 4 WAR player, that is an epic failure of a contract, especially if Xander is a 4 WAR player making half as much money. Plus you have to factor in the acquisition cost and the costs of other players that they have to fill via free agency because they won't have prospects ready to play on the 25 man roster. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2018 8:26:13 GMT -5
Start believing the Machado rumors, I guess. The White Sox make sense. They could use his production in 2 years when they are probably ready to start contending again. Start believing that Boras is still pumping false info. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 2, 2018 9:56:17 GMT -5
It seems to have gone unnoticed that Xander described the Sox as his family since he was 16. By all reports he is a thoughtful hardworking kid, kind of sounds like a guy who will want to stay in Boston and someone we want around.
I am still very hopeful he hasn't come close to his potential yet.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 2, 2018 10:27:30 GMT -5
The Sox are going to have to face these decisions either way in a year or two. The Sale and Mookie contracts are going to hurt and are going to cripple your payroll. Machado will at least be worth the money if you have it to him. That's what all about for me. Making smart financial decisions, spending money on the players who will be worth the contracts. You can rebuild a farm system with 2 good drafts and 2 good international signing periods (within a year). It takes years and years to get rid of bad contracts. Manny wouldn't and shouldn't be a bad contract. How do you know that Machado will be worth his contract when we're talking about an unprecedented contract? Machado's defense is worth a extra 10-20 runs saved compared to Xander. Factor in that his worst year as a pro was last year (outside of a short stint in 2012 when he was a rookie) and also factoring in that Xander's best year offensively as a pro was 102 +wRC in 2017. Yeah I'm betting that the value of Machado increases at short stop with the plus offense and defense. In fact, I'm betting that Machado can become one of the 5 most valuable players in the sport at short stop. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 2, 2018 10:37:36 GMT -5
It seems to have gone unnoticed that Xander described the Sox as his family since he was 16. By all reports he is a thoughtful hardworking kid, kind of sounds like a guy who will want to stay in Boston and someone we want around. I am still very hopeful he hasn't come close to his potential yet. I get the sense that he's actually the one free agent that really wants to stay with the Sox. Usually I've been against the idea because I don't believe that he can stay at SS long-term and that Boras will be demanding a ridiculous contract, but even if he doesn't take the big step forward we hope for, Bogaerts actually could slide over to 2b once Pedroia's playing time ends or fades away down the road. Bogaerts would be a good hitting 2b even if he didn't become the power hitting .300 hitter we thought he could be. It'll come down to Xander's desire to stay in Boston versus how reasonable his agents' demands are, and yes I know Boras works for Xander. It would have to be a Jason Varitek type situation where he tells his agent - get me the best deal you can get me - but with Boston only. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2018 11:44:50 GMT -5
How do you know that Machado will be worth his contract when we're talking about an unprecedented contract? Machado's defense is worth a extra 10-20 runs saved compared to Xander. Factor in that his worst year as a pro was last year (outside of a short stint in 2012 when he was a rookie) and also factoring in that Xander's best year offensively as a pro was 102 +wRC in 2017. Yeah I'm betting that the value of Machado increases at short stop with the plus offense and defense. In fact, I'm betting that Machado can become one of the 5 most valuable players in the sport at short stop. That doesn't mean he'll be worth his contract if he's given 10/$400M. You have no way of knowing that. I'm not comparing Xander to Machado as much as I'm comparing Machado to Machado's free agent contract. Xander's best year offensively wasn't in 2017 either. He had a 111 in 2015 and a 115 in 2016. Machado has exceeded those wRC+ in a grand total of 2 seasons. I'm not saying that Machado isn't a great player. He is. But there's just no way in hell that anyone can know that he'll be worth his next contract. If anyone knows that is a fact then he probably didn't get enough. He's not anywhere close to ARod. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 2, 2018 12:10:19 GMT -5
Machado's defense is worth a extra 10-20 runs saved compared to Xander. Factor in that his worst year as a pro was last year (outside of a short stint in 2012 when he was a rookie) and also factoring in that Xander's best year offensively as a pro was 102 +wRC in 2017. Yeah I'm betting that the value of Machado increases at short stop with the plus offense and defense. In fact, I'm betting that Machado can become one of the 5 most valuable players in the sport at short stop. That doesn't mean he'll be worth his contract if he's given 10/$400M. You have no way of knowing that. I'm not comparing Xander to Machado as much as I'm comparing Machado to Machado's free agent contract. Xander's best year offensively wasn't in 2017 either. He had a 111 in 2015 and a 115 in 2016. Machado has exceeded those wRC+ in a grand total of 2 seasons. I'm not saying that Machado isn't a great player. He is. But there's just no way in hell that anyone can know that he'll be worth his next contract. If anyone knows that is a fact then he probably didn't get enough. He's not anywhere close to ARod. Just a few points to consider: 1) Machado's two best seasons of 130 and 135 wRC+ are a great deal better than any season Bogaerts has ever had, so let's be clear on that. Those were top 30 and top 20 finishes by those metrics, whereas Bogaerts' finishes in his best two seasons were top 65. As I understand it at least, because of the way wRC+ works, you're looking at something of a bell curve as the number gets better, so it's not just "a difference of 20 points" or something. 2) To piggyback on that point, I think it's kind of silly to argue who the better player is currently between the two and who is likely to be the better player going forward. I can't believe there's any reason to think that Bogaerts will be a better player or hitter than Machado (the latter of which I note is a different point than the one made by pedrofan that it wouldn't surprise him if Bogaerts wound up being better - duly noted). That's especially once you factor in defense. The point is-if I can tweak the point jimed made a bit-how good the players will be relative to their presumptive free agent contracts. 3) And that tweak is my last point - there's no way to know if Machado will be worth his next contract, but the exact same thing can be said about Bogaerts. With the young shortstop renaissance we're enjoying right now, I think we're going to see that a rising tide is going to lift all boats. No, Bogaerts probably isn't quite Lindor or Seager or Correa, but he's still a top young shortstop, and with two seasons that are merely very good, never mind two seasons of finally reaching his heady potential, he's going to get paid in two years. None of the above is advocacy in one direction or the other, just some thoughts on the subject to think about. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 2, 2018 12:25:06 GMT -5
Machado's defense is worth a extra 10-20 runs saved compared to Xander. Factor in that his worst year as a pro was last year (outside of a short stint in 2012 when he was a rookie) and also factoring in that Xander's best year offensively as a pro was 102 +wRC in 2017. Yeah I'm betting that the value of Machado increases at short stop with the plus offense and defense. In fact, I'm betting that Machado can become one of the 5 most valuable players in the sport at short stop. That doesn't mean he'll be worth his contract if he's given 10/$400M. You have no way of knowing that. I'm not comparing Xander to Machado as much as I'm comparing Machado to Machado's free agent contract. Xander's best year offensively wasn't in 2017 either. He had a 111 in 2015 and a 115 in 2016. Machado has exceeded those wRC+ in a grand total of 2 seasons. I'm not saying that Machado isn't a great player. He is. But there's just no way in hell that anyone can know that he'll be worth his next contract. If anyone knows that is a fact then he probably didn't get enough. He's not anywhere close to ARod. I think he'll be worth closer to the mega contract than anyone on this team currently. That probably includes Mookie. He's not A-Rod, but he is probably the closest thing to A-Rod this sport has seen, if he plays short stop. As Chris just mentioned, there is probably a increase in overall batting value when he moves to short stop full time. There just isn't many if any short stops in baseball with Manny's ceiling at the short stop position. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 2, 2018 13:10:24 GMT -5
That doesn't mean he'll be worth his contract if he's given 10/$400M. You have no way of knowing that. I'm not comparing Xander to Machado as much as I'm comparing Machado to Machado's free agent contract. Xander's best year offensively wasn't in 2017 either. He had a 111 in 2015 and a 115 in 2016. Machado has exceeded those wRC+ in a grand total of 2 seasons. I'm not saying that Machado isn't a great player. He is. But there's just no way in hell that anyone can know that he'll be worth his next contract. If anyone knows that is a fact then he probably didn't get enough. He's not anywhere close to ARod. I think he'll be worth closer to the mega contract than anyone on this team currently. That probably includes Mookie. He's not A-Rod, but he is probably the closest thing to A-Rod this sport has seen, if he plays short stop. As Chris just mentioned, there is probably a increase in overall batting value when he moves to short stop full time. There just isn't many if any short stops in baseball with Manny's ceiling at the short stop position. The thing is he's not even close to A-Rod. A-Rod was a free agent a year earlier, was one of the best hitters in all of Baseball and played very good D. At Machados age he had already won a batting title, hit over .300 4 times, had an OPS over .900 4 times and an OPS over 1.0 twice. I'd give a young A-Rod 10 years 400 million, not Machado. That's the thing with Machado great young player, but clearly a notch below an A-Rod or a Trout type player. I would also worry about his D, because the minute that starts to decline his value will tank, unless he improves his hitting. A-Rod's D started declining around age 28-29. If I had to pick between Betts or Machado, I take Betts all day long. Both are great defensive players, but I like Betts bat more. |
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Post by soxjim on Jan 2, 2018 13:13:12 GMT -5
It seems to have gone unnoticed that Xander described the Sox as his family since he was 16. By all reports he is a thoughtful hardworking kid, kind of sounds like a guy who will want to stay in Boston and someone we want around. I am still very hopeful he hasn't come close to his potential yet. I'm not so sure. Though I'd like to make it clear I don't think it "bad" if he doesn't think of Sox as his family. He has every right not to. But -- the Sox offered a long-term. The below from Boras suggests he is going into FA. I really don't think XB looks at Sox "as his family" like many of us would like to think. I'm sure his teammates are his "family." boston.cbslocal.com/2017/05/05/scott-boras-xander-bogaerts-jackie-bradley-extensions/ |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 2, 2018 13:14:54 GMT -5
As Chris just mentioned, there is probably a increase in overall batting value when he moves to short stop full time. There just isn't many if any short stops in baseball with Manny's ceiling at the short stop position. Correa, Seager, Lindor are all in the same category easily. Also, I never said what you just said I did. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2018 13:16:00 GMT -5
That doesn't mean he'll be worth his contract if he's given 10/$400M. You have no way of knowing that. I'm not comparing Xander to Machado as much as I'm comparing Machado to Machado's free agent contract. Xander's best year offensively wasn't in 2017 either. He had a 111 in 2015 and a 115 in 2016. Machado has exceeded those wRC+ in a grand total of 2 seasons. I'm not saying that Machado isn't a great player. He is. But there's just no way in hell that anyone can know that he'll be worth his next contract. If anyone knows that is a fact then he probably didn't get enough. He's not anywhere close to ARod. I think he'll be worth closer to the mega contract than anyone on this team currently. That probably includes Mookie. He's not A-Rod, but he is probably the closest thing to A-Rod this sport has seen, if he plays short stop. As Chris just mentioned, there is probably a increase in overall batting value when he moves to short stop full time. There just isn't many if any short stops in baseball with Manny's ceiling at the short stop position. No one on this team currently is set to make anywhere close to Machado. Why are you comparing them and then saying "Machado will be worth his contract unlike anyone on the Red Sox?" I mean if we want to actually make a valid comparison on player values and contracts, how about this? What would you rather have? Machado at 10 years/$400 million or Xander at 7 years/$140 million? |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 2, 2018 13:16:52 GMT -5
I think he'll be worth closer to the mega contract than anyone on this team currently. That probably includes Mookie. He's not A-Rod, but he is probably the closest thing to A-Rod this sport has seen, if he plays short stop. As Chris just mentioned, there is probably a increase in overall batting value when he moves to short stop full time. There just isn't many if any short stops in baseball with Manny's ceiling at the short stop position. The thing is he's not even close to A-Rod. A-Rod was a free agent a year earlier, was one of the best hitters in all of Baseball and played very good D. At Machados age he had already won a batting title, hit over .300 4 times, had an OPS over .900 4 times and an OPS over 1.0 twice. I'd give a young A-Rod 10 years 400 million, not Machado. That's the thing with Machado great young player, but clearly a notch below an A-Rod or a Trout type player. I would also worry about his D, because the minute that starts to decline his value will tank, unless he improves his hitting. A-Rod's D started declining around age 28-29. If I had to pick between Betts or Machado, I take Betts all day long. Both are great defensive players, but I like Betts bat more. To head this off before it happens, I'm not sure of the point in arguing Machado vs. A-Rod, especially in this thread with that level of granularity. If you two would like to continue doing that, do so in throwdown or something, please. As for the simple point he's nowhere near as good as ARod, point made, let's move on. Also, I'm fairly certain nobody has brought up Betts vs. Machado, so I'm not sure of your point. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2018 13:18:15 GMT -5
The thing is he's not even close to A-Rod. A-Rod was a free agent a year earlier, was one of the best hitters in all of Baseball and played very good D. At Machados age he had already won a batting title, hit over .300 4 times, had an OPS over .900 4 times and an OPS over 1.0 twice. I'd give a young A-Rod 10 years 400 million, not Machado. That's the thing with Machado great young player, but clearly a notch below an A-Rod or a Trout type player. I would also worry about his D, because the minute that starts to decline his value will tank, unless he improves his hitting. A-Rod's D started declining around age 28-29. If I had to pick between Betts or Machado, I take Betts all day long. Both are great defensive players, but I like Betts bat more. I'm not sure of the point in arguing Machado vs. A-Rod, especially in this thread. If you two would like to continue doing that, do so in throwdown or something, please. Also, I'm fairly certain nobody has brought up Betts vs. Machado, so I'm not sure of your point. Pedro brought up that Machado will be worth his contract more than anyone on the Red Sox will. That's where the disagreement comes from considering no one knows what anyone is going to sign for. |
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