SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Red Sox vs. Astros 2017 ALDS Thread
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 16:46:15 GMT -5
I would also be ready to move on from Dombrowski. On a team that has been desperate for power all year, not playing Brentz in September is the dumbest move I've ever seen and that's even on top of all of the trades for relief pitchers. That's not to say Brentz would save the team, but still why not see if he's worth keeping?
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 6, 2017 16:47:21 GMT -5
And what should they have done differently? Everyone wanted so badly to hate DD the minute he arrived because of his reputation - he has been just fine and without Price/Sale/Pomeranz/Kimbrel they likely don't even have to worry about making the playoffs and flaming out the last two seasons. We could easily be looking at 4-straight last-place Farrell/Cherington finishes. It is specifically his moves that have overcome Farrell's coaching and managing ineptitude and put the Sox in a position to win two divisions. The simple fact that you have to give away prospects to get stars seemingly ruins some SoxProspects posters' lives no matter the outcome... The one trade you could argue he clearly lost was the Milwaukee trade, but Thornburg's injury was an unfortunate fluke and EVERYONE hated Shaw at the end of last year and NO ONE wanted him to be the regular at 3B. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and not true. I was here to read all your posts. I would have loved to have seen Encarnacion sign here (or picked up JD Martinez for a AZ type return) - but that was clearly an ownership directive NOT to go over the luxury tax. Now it has reset and he can spend. Sale has been great. Pomeranz has been great. Kimbrel has been great. Price has been good (but not elite, so people hate him). Smith has been good since healthy. Moreland was a good signing. Fister was a great value pick-up. What hurt this team, in addition to the coaching and injury, was the B's not living up to offensive expectations. There is nothing the front-office could have done about that. If the team was hurt by any front office moves this season, it was Cherington hold-overs (Sandoval especially) killing the team's ability to spend in FA or at the deadline or not performing (Porcello, Ramirez). It wasn't DD who signed a fat guy who was never any good to begin with or ruined Blake Swihart, etc. Dombrowski has been just fine. He's vilified here simply because he works with a focus on the MLB club and not for the mission statement of this website... There is a lot of truth in this post.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 16:48:01 GMT -5
Yeah I think that the people making the baseball decisions need to seriously be questioned too. The front office of the Sox has put the Sox in baseball purgatory basically. Good enough to compete but not good enough to win yet. That is a very bad place to be. No good draft picks and no payroll space to work with either. And what should they have done differently? Everyone wanted so badly to hate DD the minute he arrived because of his reputation - he has been just fine and without Price/Sale/Pomeranz/Kimbrel they likely don't even have to worry about making the playoffs and flaming out the last two seasons. We could easily be looking at 4-straight last-place Farrell/Cherington finishes. It is specifically his moves that have overcome Farrell's coaching and managing ineptitude and put the Sox in a position to win two divisions. The simple fact that you have to give away prospects to get stars seemingly ruins some SoxProspects posters' lives no matter the outcome... The one trade you could argue he clearly lost was the Milwaukee trade, but Thornburg's injury was an unfortunate fluke and EVERYONE hated Shaw at the end of last year and NO ONE wanted him to be the regular at 3B. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and not true. I was here to read all your posts. I would have loved to have seen Encarnacion sign here (or picked up JD Martinez for a AZ type return) - but that was clearly an ownership directive NOT to go over the luxury tax. Now it has reset and he can spend. Sale has been great. Pomeranz has been great. Kimbrel has been great. Price has been good (but not elite, so people hate him). Smith has been good since healthy. Moreland was a good signing. Fister was a great value pick-up. What hurt this team, in addition to the coaching and injury, was the B's not living up to offensive expectations. There is nothing the front-office could have done about that. If the team was hurt by any front office moves this season, it was Cherington hold-overs (Sandoval especially) killing the team's ability to spend in FA or at the deadline or not performing (Porcello, Ramirez). It wasn't DD who signed a fat guy who was never any good to begin with or ruined Blake Swihart, etc. Dombrowski has been just fine. He's vilified here simply because he works with a focus on the MLB club and not for the mission statement of this website... Bryce Brentz wasn't given a chance to see if his new hitting mechanics could work in the majors. Sale's workload was not managed. They went with Pablo Sandoval over Travis Shaw.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
|
Post by wcp3 on Oct 6, 2017 16:50:20 GMT -5
And what should they have done differently? Everyone wanted so badly to hate DD the minute he arrived because of his reputation - he has been just fine and without Price/Sale/Pomeranz/Kimbrel they likely don't even have to worry about making the playoffs and flaming out the last two seasons. We could easily be looking at 4-straight last-place Farrell/Cherington finishes. It is specifically his moves that have overcome Farrell's coaching and managing ineptitude and put the Sox in a position to win two divisions. The simple fact that you have to give away prospects to get stars seemingly ruins some SoxProspects posters' lives no matter the outcome... The one trade you could argue he clearly lost was the Milwaukee trade, but Thornburg's injury was an unfortunate fluke and EVERYONE hated Shaw at the end of last year and NO ONE wanted him to be the regular at 3B. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and not true. I was here to read all your posts. I would have loved to have seen Encarnacion sign here (or picked up JD Martinez for a AZ type return) - but that was clearly an ownership directive NOT to go over the luxury tax. Now it has reset and he can spend. Sale has been great. Pomeranz has been great. Kimbrel has been great. Price has been good (but not elite, so people hate him). Smith has been good since healthy. Moreland was a good signing. Fister was a great value pick-up. What hurt this team, in addition to the coaching and injury, was the B's not living up to offensive expectations. There is nothing the front-office could have done about that. If the team was hurt by any front office moves this season, it was Cherington hold-overs (Sandoval especially) killing the team's ability to spend in FA or at the deadline or not performing (Porcello, Ramirez). It wasn't DD who signed a fat guy who was never any good to begin with or ruined Blake Swihart, etc. Dombrowski has been just fine. He's vilified here simply because he works with a focus on the MLB club and not for the mission statement of this website... There is a lot of truth in this post. There is. He had a rough first year, but he's done some good things overall. However, it seems like this team is built to be good, but without the resources internally to make the next step. Sure, they can go out and spend, but spending big on FAs rarely seems to pan out (for the Sox or anyone). My biggest concern is the lack of player development. I got blasted for saying that before, but their young guys just aren't taking the necessary steps forward.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 16:55:01 GMT -5
I don't see how any team beats Houston, including the Indians or any team in the NL. It would only happen if they all got cold at the same time. Even Kimbrel couldn't get swings and misses.
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Oct 6, 2017 16:55:02 GMT -5
Im sorry, but Dombrowski isn't going to get fired because he didn't call up Bryce Brentz. That's crazy talk.
Besides, Dom hasn't been given a chance to win with "his guy" as the manager. I assume that happens next season.
|
|
|
Post by aznpopsical on Oct 6, 2017 16:56:00 GMT -5
Yeah I think that the people making the baseball decisions need to seriously be questioned too. The front office of the Sox has put the Sox in baseball purgatory basically. Good enough to compete but not good enough to win yet. That is a very bad place to be. No good draft picks and no payroll space to work with either. And what should they have done differently? Everyone wanted so badly to hate DD the minute he arrived because of his reputation - he has been just fine and without Price/Sale/Pomeranz/Kimbrel they likely don't even have to worry about making the playoffs and flaming out the last two seasons. We could easily be looking at 4-straight last-place Farrell/Cherington finishes. It is specifically his moves that have overcome Farrell's coaching and managing ineptitude and put the Sox in a position to win two divisions. The simple fact that you have to give away prospects to get stars seemingly ruins some SoxProspects posters' lives no matter the outcome... The one trade you could argue he clearly lost was the Milwaukee trade, but Thornburg's injury was an unfortunate fluke and EVERYONE hated Shaw at the end of last year and NO ONE wanted him to be the regular at 3B. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and not true. I was here to read all your posts. I would have loved to have seen Encarnacion sign here (or picked up JD Martinez for a AZ type return) - but that was clearly an ownership directive NOT to go over the luxury tax. Now it has reset and he can spend. Sale has been great. Pomeranz has been great. Kimbrel has been great. Price has been good (but not elite, so people hate him). Smith has been good since healthy. Moreland was a good signing. Fister was a great value pick-up. What hurt this team, in addition to the coaching and injury, was the B's not living up to offensive expectations. There is nothing the front-office could have done about that. If the team was hurt by any front office moves this season, it was Cherington hold-overs (Sandoval especially) killing the team's ability to spend in FA or at the deadline or not performing (Porcello, Ramirez). It wasn't DD who signed a fat guy who was never any good to begin with or ruined Blake Swihart, etc. Dombrowski has been just fine. He's vilified here simply because he works with a focus on the MLB club and not for the mission statement of this website... Disagree with this totally. I don't like dombrowski because he's old and has been in the game too long. Give me a gm who's in their 30s any day, for a lot of reasons.
|
|
|
Post by Coreno on Oct 6, 2017 16:56:54 GMT -5
Can't get in the way of the prophecy. ... Yeah, they had a great strategy at building this team. Tank for 10 years and gather 10 top 5 picks. FWIW, Correa and Bregman are the only top 5 picks on the roster.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 16:58:12 GMT -5
Im sorry, but Dombrowski isn't going to get fired because he didn't call up Bryce Brentz. That's crazy talk. Besides, Dom hasn't been given a chance to win with "his guy" as the manager. I assume that happens next season. That's just one example of being stupid. It didn't even cost anything but a 40-man roster spot. They had about 15 relief pitchers on the 40-man but couldn't find room for Brentz? And they were DH'ing Pedroia when he could barely run and had zero power.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 16:59:02 GMT -5
Yeah, they had a great strategy at building this team. Tank for 10 years and gather 10 top 5 picks. FWIW, Correa and Bregman are the only top 5 picks on the roster. Let me bitch. They still tanked for way too long and didn't even try.
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Oct 6, 2017 16:59:16 GMT -5
Im sorry, but Dombrowski isn't going to get fired because he didn't call up Bryce Brentz. That's crazy talk. Besides, Dom hasn't been given a chance to win with "his guy" as the manager. I assume that happens next season. That's just one example of being stupid. It didn't even cost anything but a 40-man roster spot. They had about 15 relief pitchers on the 40-man but couldn't find room for Brentz? And they were DH'ing Pedroia when he could barely run and had zero power. I'm not saying it was smart, but he has zero chance of being fired this off-season.
|
|
|
Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 16:59:42 GMT -5
And what should they have done differently? Everyone wanted so badly to hate DD the minute he arrived because of his reputation - he has been just fine and without Price/Sale/Pomeranz/Kimbrel they likely don't even have to worry about making the playoffs and flaming out the last two seasons. We could easily be looking at 4-straight last-place Farrell/Cherington finishes. It is specifically his moves that have overcome Farrell's coaching and managing ineptitude and put the Sox in a position to win two divisions. The simple fact that you have to give away prospects to get stars seemingly ruins some SoxProspects posters' lives no matter the outcome... The one trade you could argue he clearly lost was the Milwaukee trade, but Thornburg's injury was an unfortunate fluke and EVERYONE hated Shaw at the end of last year and NO ONE wanted him to be the regular at 3B. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and not true. I was here to read all your posts. I would have loved to have seen Encarnacion sign here (or picked up JD Martinez for a AZ type return) - but that was clearly an ownership directive NOT to go over the luxury tax. Now it has reset and he can spend. Sale has been great. Pomeranz has been great. Kimbrel has been great. Price has been good (but not elite, so people hate him). Smith has been good since healthy. Moreland was a good signing. Fister was a great value pick-up. What hurt this team, in addition to the coaching and injury, was the B's not living up to offensive expectations. There is nothing the front-office could have done about that. If the team was hurt by any front office moves this season, it was Cherington hold-overs (Sandoval especially) killing the team's ability to spend in FA or at the deadline or not performing (Porcello, Ramirez). It wasn't DD who signed a fat guy who was never any good to begin with or ruined Blake Swihart, etc. Dombrowski has been just fine. He's vilified here simply because he works with a focus on the MLB club and not for the mission statement of this website... Bryce Brentz wasn't given a chance to see if his new hitting mechanics could work in the majors. Sale's workload was not managed. They went with Pablo Sandoval over Travis Shaw. Bryce Brentz is a minor move that, however frustrating, doesn't remotely undo all of the 'impact' he's brought to the team. I'm not sure how it makes sense to activate Brentz, anyway, if DD knew Farrell would continue to go to Young. Sale's workload is managed by the manager and pitching coach. Travis Shaw (as everyone here noted) was an absolute disaster down the stretch last season and he was traded in part because Devers was close. I also forgot in my previous post the very good trade for Nunez...
|
|
|
Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:00:58 GMT -5
And what should they have done differently? Everyone wanted so badly to hate DD the minute he arrived because of his reputation - he has been just fine and without Price/Sale/Pomeranz/Kimbrel they likely don't even have to worry about making the playoffs and flaming out the last two seasons. We could easily be looking at 4-straight last-place Farrell/Cherington finishes. It is specifically his moves that have overcome Farrell's coaching and managing ineptitude and put the Sox in a position to win two divisions. The simple fact that you have to give away prospects to get stars seemingly ruins some SoxProspects posters' lives no matter the outcome... The one trade you could argue he clearly lost was the Milwaukee trade, but Thornburg's injury was an unfortunate fluke and EVERYONE hated Shaw at the end of last year and NO ONE wanted him to be the regular at 3B. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and not true. I was here to read all your posts. I would have loved to have seen Encarnacion sign here (or picked up JD Martinez for a AZ type return) - but that was clearly an ownership directive NOT to go over the luxury tax. Now it has reset and he can spend. Sale has been great. Pomeranz has been great. Kimbrel has been great. Price has been good (but not elite, so people hate him). Smith has been good since healthy. Moreland was a good signing. Fister was a great value pick-up. What hurt this team, in addition to the coaching and injury, was the B's not living up to offensive expectations. There is nothing the front-office could have done about that. If the team was hurt by any front office moves this season, it was Cherington hold-overs (Sandoval especially) killing the team's ability to spend in FA or at the deadline or not performing (Porcello, Ramirez). It wasn't DD who signed a fat guy who was never any good to begin with or ruined Blake Swihart, etc. Dombrowski has been just fine. He's vilified here simply because he works with a focus on the MLB club and not for the mission statement of this website... Disagree with this totally. I don't like dombrowski because he's old and has been in the game too long. Give me a gm who's in their 30s any day, for a lot of reasons. Explain how and what you and your 'young' GM would do differently. Cherington was 'young' and he is the one responsible for a lot of this team's issues. I'll take a GM who puts a play-off team on the field and then take my chances with a better manager...
|
|
|
Post by dirtdog on Oct 6, 2017 17:01:30 GMT -5
Two years in a row the lights have seemed to bright for some in the post season. Last year a lot of 1 for 11 batting lines for the Cleveland series. I think this year year will be similar. There was talk beginning of the year that Mookie was 2nd best player in the game. If post season is any indication the answer is no and I am a huge Mookie fan. In any sport your bones are really made in the post season and this squad as constructed doesnt look like they have it.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 17:01:32 GMT -5
That's just one example of being stupid. It didn't even cost anything but a 40-man roster spot. They had about 15 relief pitchers on the 40-man but couldn't find room for Brentz? And they were DH'ing Pedroia when he could barely run and had zero power. I'm not saying it was smart, but he has zero chance of being fired this off-season. I doubt he will either, but I'm on the record saying I am not confident that he'll ever get it done. And he's going to leave us with a total disaster, unlike Cherington.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 6, 2017 17:01:46 GMT -5
There is. He had a rough first year, but he's done some good things overall. However, it seems like this team is built to be good, but without the resources internally to make the next step. Sure, they can go out and spend, but spending big on FAs rarely seems to pan out (for the Sox or anyone). My biggest concern is the lack of player development. I got blasted for saying that before, but their young guys just aren't taking the necessary steps forward. Yes, but 40 million is tied up with Sandoval and Hanley. That is a lot of money. And really, it may be the Astro's year. We should understand when a team is so good and other teams run into a buzz saw. It is a crap shoot here,and it isn't over. Maybe new management staff will help with development.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
|
Post by wcp3 on Oct 6, 2017 17:03:20 GMT -5
Cherington is also largely responsible for this team's young core...
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 17:03:32 GMT -5
Two years in a row the lights have seemed to bright for some in the post season. Last year a lot of 1 for 11 batting lines for the Cleveland series. I think this year year will be similar. There was talk beginning of the year that Mookie was 2nd best player in the game. If post season is any indication the answer is no and I am a huge Mookie fan. In any sport your bones are really made in the post season and this squad as constructed doesnt look like they have it. Did you see about 10 minutes ago that Mookie can barely take his batting glove off? No one can hit when their hands are hurt.
|
|
|
Post by dirtdog on Oct 6, 2017 17:04:25 GMT -5
I would also be ready to move on from Dombrowski. On a team that has been desperate for power all year, not playing Brentz in September is the dumbest move I've ever seen and that's even on top of all of the trades for relief pitchers. That's not to say Brentz would save the team, but still why not see if he's worth keeping? I am more neutral on DD but doubt Henry is ready to move on from him at this point. Another stinker year, then possibly.
|
|
|
Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:05:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 17:05:42 GMT -5
I'll be sure to remind you about Brentz next year when he's hitting 30 HR for Tampa after we let him leave as a minor league free agent.
|
|
|
Post by dirtdog on Oct 6, 2017 17:05:58 GMT -5
Two years in a row the lights have seemed to bright for some in the post season. Last year a lot of 1 for 11 batting lines for the Cleveland series. I think this year year will be similar. There was talk beginning of the year that Mookie was 2nd best player in the game. If post season is any indication the answer is no and I am a huge Mookie fan. In any sport your bones are really made in the post season and this squad as constructed doesnt look like they have it. Did you see about 10 minutes ago that Mookie can barely take his batting glove off? No one can hit when their hands are hurt. What happened last year, and again I am a huge Mookie fan.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 6, 2017 17:06:18 GMT -5
We got em right where we want em. They are getting complacent. Nice job JBJ
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 17:06:52 GMT -5
Cherington held them to a fault. If he traded them like Dombrowski does, Dombrowski wouldn't have had anyone to trade.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 17:08:57 GMT -5
Did you see about 10 minutes ago that Mookie can barely take his batting glove off? No one can hit when their hands are hurt. What happened last year, and again I am a huge Mookie fan. This is like calling Yaz and Ted Williams chokers. You need a sample size larger than 3 games.
|
|
|