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Red Sox vs. Astros 2017 ALDS Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 6, 2017 17:10:52 GMT -5
That was close.
Tito up 3-2 3rd.
Crap
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 6, 2017 17:12:15 GMT -5
tough loss, start. That is 5 playoff losses in a row. We need the guys to get a win on Sunday, if for nothing else, to not have that hanging over their heads. Series isn't over. One inning at a time.
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:14:31 GMT -5
I'll be sure to remind you about Brentz next year when he's hitting 30 HR for Tampa after we let him leave as a minor league free agent. I hope you'll remind me if he turns out to be a career AAAA player, too. But I doubt it...
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Post by jbuttah on Oct 6, 2017 17:18:50 GMT -5
Alot of the current problems with this team are due to Cherington...
1) Not trading Lester/Lackey for prospects 2) Signing Sandoval and Ramirez
DD's trade of Shaw is #3. And yes, I wanted Shaw gone, but I'm not paid millions to know better. DD not replacing Farrell with Lovullo is #4. Lovullo just seemed to have a better rapport with the young players and rarely made in game decisions that made you say WTF.
I also think the injury to Nunez played a huge role. He definitely provided a spark to the whole team, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Devers started to struggle after Nunez got injured.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 6, 2017 17:19:50 GMT -5
I'll be sure to remind you about Brentz next year when he's hitting 30 HR for Tampa after we let him leave as a minor league free agent. I hope you'll remind me if he turns out to be a career AAAA player, too. But I doubt it... Feel free to remind me. Remember, it only cost a 40-man roster spot to find out.
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Post by jbuttah on Oct 6, 2017 17:20:32 GMT -5
I'll be sure to remind you about Brentz next year when he's hitting 30 HR for Tampa after we let him leave as a minor league free agent. I hope you'll remind me if he turns out to be a career AAAA player, too. But I doubt it... There's probably a 90% chance he turns out to be a AAAA player, but he never even had an opportunity to go for the 10% chance he could be more.
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:22:27 GMT -5
Cherington held them to a fault. If he traded them like Dombrowski does, Dombrowski wouldn't have had anyone to trade. Nothing more indicative of the nature of this board - or the DD hate - than blaming him for guys he "would have traded" or "will definitely trade". If Cherington had done more than only hang on to prospects maybe they wouldn't have finished last two years running. We have no idea who DD would have traded or kept, yet its still held against him. He kept Devers. He kept Benintendi. He clearly values prospects against one another, keeps the ones he thinks will be players and trades the ones he thinks are overvalued. His track record is pretty good. His Red Sox track record already looks pretty good as far as the guys he's traded - with the exception of Margot and Koepech (and you have to trade value to get value).
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:24:36 GMT -5
I hope you'll remind me if he turns out to be a career AAAA player, too. But I doubt it... Feel free to remind me. Remember, it only cost a 40-man roster spot to find out. I would have loved to have seen Brentz up here - but you're losing a player off the 40-man (value), so that Brentz can come up and park it next to Travis while Farrell plays Young. DD can't GM in a vacuum. I see it as another Farrell issue more than anything else. If not, they are aware of Brentz' numbers and know him better than anyone - if anyone is in a position to determine it may not be real its the Red Sox, regardless of GM.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 6, 2017 17:24:45 GMT -5
yikes Kluber rocked.
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Post by jbuttah on Oct 6, 2017 17:25:08 GMT -5
Alot of the current problems with this team are due to Cherington... 1) Not trading Lester/Lackey for prospects 2) Signing Sandoval and Ramirez DD's trade of Shaw is #3. And yes, I wanted Shaw gone, but I'm not paid millions to know better. DD not replacing Farrell with Lovullo is #4. Lovullo just seemed to have a better rapport with the young players and rarely made in game decisions that made you say WTF. I also think the injury to Nunez played a huge role. He definitely provided a spark to the whole team, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Devers started to struggle after Nunez got injured. For Cherington, I also forgot, not resigning Miller. Then we still have Margot who's trending up, while Bradley is trending down.
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Post by swingingbunt on Oct 6, 2017 17:30:41 GMT -5
I hope you'll remind me if he turns out to be a career AAAA player, too. But I doubt it... There's probably a 90% chance he turns out to be a AAAA player, but he never even had an opportunity to go for the 10% chance he could be more. It's probably more like a 98%-2% (if that)
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:32:00 GMT -5
Alot of the current problems with this team are due to Cherington... 1) Not trading Lester/Lackey for prospects 2) Signing Sandoval and Ramirez DD's trade of Shaw is #3. And yes, I wanted Shaw gone, but I'm not paid millions to know better. DD not replacing Farrell with Lovullo is #4. Lovullo just seemed to have a better rapport with the young players and rarely made in game decisions that made you say WTF. I also think the injury to Nunez played a huge role. He definitely provided a spark to the whole team, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Devers started to struggle after Nunez got injured. I don't know that you could claim DD chose Farrell over anyone. In my own 'reading between the lines' I see a manager thrust onto a coach following a cancer battle. He wasn't in a position to pick his own guy as a result. Then they finish first last year. They couldn't force Lovullo to stick around and wait. I'd expect that Farrell is gone if they go out like this (despite back-to-back division titles) and, at least to me, that indicates that DD never thought of him as 'his' guy. Unfortunately, timing didn't work out for Lovullo because he was too hot a candidate...
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Post by jbuttah on Oct 6, 2017 17:33:31 GMT -5
There's probably a 90% chance he turns out to be a AAAA player, but he never even had an opportunity to go for the 10% chance he could be more. It's probably more like a 98%-2% (if that) He was a high draft pick and there was a specific tweak to his swing that completely changed his stats.
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 17:41:37 GMT -5
It's probably more like a 98%-2% (if that) He was a high draft pick and there was a specific tweak to his swing that completely changed his stats. A tweak made and observed continuously by the Red Sox organization... I'm done arguing about Brentz though. I think focusing on a minor, back-end of the 40-man move, and not all of the moves DD has made that have directly and positively influenced the MLB roster and finish prove my premise that many hated him upon arrival and refuse to give him any credit...
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 6, 2017 17:44:20 GMT -5
How do you guys like my new signature?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 6, 2017 18:01:59 GMT -5
What a horrible day for baseball.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Oct 6, 2017 19:41:47 GMT -5
This Houston team clearly is better than the the Sox. They have a historically outstanding team. Right now the Sox do not. Houston has an edge or more at almost every position except, maybe, right field and catcher when Vazquez is catching. On paper the Sox looked better with pitching. The only way the Sox were going to beat Houston was for the pitchers to be at the top of their game and for the hitters to actually hit. Neither has happened. Even the bullpen has not met expectations.
The Sox have the potential to be a historically outstanding team in a year or two, as these young players get more experience. The talent is there. The experience isn't. But it will be.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,446
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Post by ianrs on Oct 6, 2017 19:54:13 GMT -5
Bryce Brentz wasn't given a chance to see if his new hitting mechanics could work in the majors. Sale's workload was not managed. They went with Pablo Sandoval over Travis Shaw. Not to mention ruining Blake Swihart.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 6, 2017 21:04:24 GMT -5
It's all kind of a glass half empty/half full thing, isn't it?
Two years in a row we finish first. Two years in a row we struggle in the playoffs. We have a great core of young talent. That young talent is going through times that really should be expected - expectations too high, perhaps? We have great starters - Sale, Pomeranz, ERod, Price, and a solid bullpen. And...the season was long, extra innings games made it a 168 plus game season, not 162. The starters are struggling at a bad time. We are down 2-0 - but we have a game three, and it is at Fenway.
I am sure we all bleed Red Sox red here. This is tough to watch....but hey - we are in the playoffs. Let's see what happens next...and next year, when this young core gets one more year of experience under their belts, and when the bumps and bruises heal.
One more thing - this is not at all a typical Red Sox team - can't even really remember a version of the team that has to depend on near perfect pitching to win due to the lack of power and propensity for so many in the line up to go into prolonged slumps....and yet all of those exciting late wins.
All in all, we are pretty lucky to be fans of this franchise. That's how I've felt over my 50 years of rooting for this team.
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Post by aznpopsical on Oct 6, 2017 21:05:45 GMT -5
How come I get the feeling that danrehawk is dombrowski himself pulling a Durant
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 6, 2017 21:33:01 GMT -5
How come I get the feeling that danrehawk is dombrowski himself pulling a Durant To be fair, DD's job security shouldn't even be put into question. This franchises badly needs some stability, there's a chance that Farrell is fired after the playoffs (I disagree with that, but my opinion really doesn't mean anything) and yet I highly doubt they would hire anyone over Gary DiSarcina. I understand why people complain about losing Lovullo, but DiSarcina is also a very well regarded future manager and I feel he was hired as a bench coach to eventually take the main gig. The Red Sox are in it for the long run with that Mookie/Xander/Rafa/Christian/Benny/Bradley core. That's not a bad thing at all, however it will only work with continuity in the FO. Unless DD displays some incredible level of incompetence which he hasn't thus far IMO he's here for the long run as well.
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 6, 2017 21:59:35 GMT -5
How come I get the feeling that danrehawk is dombrowski himself pulling a Durant That's a couple posts now without ANY insight into what he's done you don't like or what you would have done differently. Sure seems like you just don't like him, weren't willing to give him a chance and won't. If he was 30-something you'd like him though? If you want to fire him, make your case. And do better than Brentz not getting a shot...
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Post by soxfando on Oct 7, 2017 0:20:53 GMT -5
Travis Shaw (as everyone here noted) was an absolute disaster down the stretch last season and he was traded in part because Devers was close. by this logic we should trade Sale this offseason - and hope we can get back Moncada and Kopech and then trade Pedroia because Moncada is close
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 7, 2017 7:09:15 GMT -5
The worst part about getting swept is going to be Farrell not getting fired.
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Post by notguilty on Oct 7, 2017 8:15:52 GMT -5
How come I get the feeling that danrehawk is dombrowski himself pulling a Durant To be fair, DD's job security shouldn't even be put into question. This franchises badly needs some stability, there's a chance that Farrell is fired after the playoffs (I disagree with that, but my opinion really doesn't mean anything) and yet I highly doubt they would hire anyone over Gary DiSarcina. I understand why people complain about losing Lovullo, but DiSarcina is also a very well regarded future manager and I feel he was hired as a bench coach to eventually take the main gig. The Red Sox are in it for the long run with that Mookie/Xander/Rafa/Christian/Benny/Bradley core. That's not a bad thing at all, however it will only work with continuity in the FO. Unless DD displays some incredible level of incompetence which he hasn't thus far IMO he's here for the long run as well. I find reactions to be a little excessive on both fronts. It’s silly to say DD should be fired. I’m no DD fan, and I don’t like the way the season has turned out, but I see no fireable offense in what he’s done. But I also think it’s really keeping blinders on to say DD has done a great job, and this team is in a great position for the future. DD has done precisely what he does. He’s put this team in a position to contend the past two years he’s been here. He’s done some great trades. It’s tough to quibble about the Sale trade; even the Pomeranz deal looks good for DD, and I hated that deal. If you want to live in the here and now (as most people do), it’s honestly difficult to do a lot better than Dombrowski. To me, the problem isn’t him per se – it’s that the Red Sox ditched an approach to team-building and sustainable winning that wasn’t easy to implement (see last place finishes), for one that like cocaine, gives you some pretty high highs over a shorter-term window, with some pretty hard crashes. And right now, other than winning the offseason talk, the “high” feels pretty crappy. I preferred the previous approach to sustainable winning, so I’m admittedly biased. People talk of how there’s such a great core and long-term future, if only so and so would hit or play to their capabilities. Really? I see a team with some good, not great young players whose salaries are increasing (I mean, I love Bogaerts – but I see Correa, and I’m like damn..), a bunch of overpaid veterans, dead contracts, substantial injury risk (yes, you, David Price) and a pretty tough payroll/Luxury tax situation. And that’s without even getting into the analytics or the manager thing. I fully expect DD to make some big moves again this winter that’ll make people feel good, to bring a big veteran hitter or two here – be it showing the money to JD Martinez, or trading one of the young guys + some of what’s left in the farm. And he should probably do that, because with his approach, once you’ve started, you just have to keep doing it until you don’t have the money or the farm system any more. DD has done exactly what I thought he would do. And I just shudder, thinking of the Detroit-like state in which he will leave the Red Sox. Hopefully we run into a World Series before that happens, but boy, the likelihood of that just isn’t very good right now, and the window to do it is just getting tighter and tighter. But this is the bed we chose to make. We’ll just have to sleep in it for a little while.
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