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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on May 4, 2018 8:36:26 GMT -5
Given the context of things, it’s great what’s going on, but let’s win a game on the road. Yes, I’m really hung up on the fact that over the years we cannot win playoff games on the road. One real win last year game 3 in Cleveland but that was after dropping the first 2 at home and we lost the series in 5 so I kind of put that on Cleveland losing more than us winning. Yes, there were injuries Stevens has yet to have a healthy team in the playoffs.
The Sixers are young, they are talented and they have cap space and more high picks. Plus, Fultz sitting there not playing after a lost year. Even a healthy Celtics squad is going to struggle with them over the next few years. Just pray they don’t land A superstar guy with this cap room.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 4, 2018 8:41:45 GMT -5
Hate to be a buzzkill here but with the Cavs and the Warriors or Rockets coming up, its hard for me to get too excited about this. Another round of playoff experience for the young guys would be nice but how helpful would it be really. Secondly - do we sell high on Rozier this offseason? If so, what would be the desired return? The more playoff rounds the better for these guys. I can’t put an answer on how helpful as I think guys like Tatum and Brown and Rozier have proven to themselves they can be aggressive and be a go to type guy and shouldn’t hesitate which is what we wanted them to get. But it’s also just fun watching them. If someone is going treat Rozier like a future All-star/ James Harden in a trade, then hell yes you trade him, but anything short of that then no. For example if you can get Leonard for something like him, Smart and Morris while keeping Brown and Tatum because Rozier is suddenly a substitute for one of them then surely you deal him. By the way, yes you can lose both Smart and Rozier if you added Leonard. Not happening but that’s just my example. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2018 8:50:39 GMT -5
In regards to Rozier and the future. I would trade him and whatever future pick it would cost to move up in this draft to get the bigman of the future. This draft has a lot of them and it is the last piece of the puzzle to become the dominant team in the league for years. Add one more cost effective star at a position of need to this team and forgetaboutit!!
This draft has more bigmen in it than any I can remember and I have been following for a long time. Robert Williams is intriguing, no outside shot but fits defensively and many other ways. He isn't projected high so he would be available via trade with all the assets Danny has and it wouldn't be very costly. There are bigs up and down this draft and the C's should go get one of them regardless the cost if they want to shoot for the moon or a mid round guy. I really just think it is time for Danny to use an asset or 2 to get what this team needs to go over the top for the next 6+ years. And Rozier has just given him another really strong asset to use for the good of the team.
Then again the C's could get beyond lucky with the 2.9% chance they have with the Laker pick of getting 2 or 3. The way things have been going here in Boston I wouldn't be surprised.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2018 9:03:38 GMT -5
Given the context of things, it’s great what’s going on, but let’s win a game on the road. Yes, I’m really hung up on the fact that over the years we cannot win playoff games on the road. One real win last year game 3 in Cleveland but that was after dropping the first 2 at home and we lost the series in 5 so I kind of put that on Cleveland losing more than us winning. Yes, there were injuries Stevens has yet to have a healthy team in the playoffs. The Sixers are young, they are talented and they have cap space and more high picks. Plus, Fultz sitting there not playing after a lost year. Even a healthy Celtics squad is going to struggle with them over the next few years. Just pray they don’t land A superstar guy with this cap room. Not long ago I was touting the Sixers as being tough for us to beat in the future and you were debating that they wouldn't be able to deal with all our great wings. Now you flip to pointing out there strengths. Bottom line is we are both right. The Sixers and the Celtics are going to be very good in the future. I do have to say that I am surprised at how effective they have been defending Simmons who had been a triple double machine for weeks. That would be why I am more confident in the C's future right now, lets see if he can adjust but the C's have locked him down. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2018 9:20:08 GMT -5
Hate to be a buzzkill here but with the Cavs and the Warriors or Rockets coming up, its hard for me to get too excited about this. Another round of playoff experience for the young guys would be nice but how helpful would it be really. Secondly - do we sell high on Rozier this offseason? If so, what would be the desired return? "hard for me to get too excited" The C's have won 6 out of 9 games in the playoffs primarily with a 20 and 21 year old along with a 24 yr old guy who to begin the season was an afterthought. Now that afterthought is a legit player/asset that makes your team that much stronger for the future. What the C's are doing right now IMO puts them right there with the best teams in the league next year. A healthy Celtic team next year will be able to beat those teams you mentioned and what is happening right now is why I feel comfortable in saying that. How much more do you need to be excited? "how helpful would it be really" I'm not in the NBA so I can only speak to what I have heard and or read but everyone in the NBA says learning how to win in the postseason is huge. Everyone makes a big deal about it so I'm very happy to see what is going on. Yes we sell high on Scary Terry!! The desired return would be a bigman out of this draft. How high they try to go to target who they want IDK, but I wouldn't hesitate to include him, the Philly/Sac/LA pick and whatever to get Bagley. Might not be feasible but I want a big from this draft, period. Bagley would make this team scary for the rest of the league for a long time. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 9:33:18 GMT -5
This team doesn't have LeBron James still. Which means that there is a ceiling for them. I think that's what he meant by that. All of this is exciting, especially beating what should be a better team, but LeBron alone could just stomp the Eastern conference.
It's pretty incredible, but yet predictable and boring to some, but it is what it is.
I don't know how to get past the LeBron James problem personally. He is so good in the postseason. You need like 3 or 4 elite scorers, like with Garnett, Pierce, and Allen.
The hope is Irving, Hayward, and Tatum gives you a shot at it. If LeBron has a team full of shooters, then you still might not get there. He is one of the 5 greatest ever to play, so there is that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 9:43:37 GMT -5
I know everyone here thinks LeBron is a bad fit for Philly because Simmons and LeBron are a little bit of the same player, but I wouldn't want to face them with LeBron. You'd have Simmons cutting to the basket with LeBron passing it to him. You'd have Simmons doing the same to LeBron. You'd have both of them feeding Embid in the post. Nevermind if they get a couple of shooters around those other three. It'll be interesting to see if he goes there this off-season.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2018 9:55:31 GMT -5
I know everyone here thinks LeBron is a bad fit for Philly because Simmons and LeBron are a little bit of the same player, but I wouldn't want to face them with LeBron. You'd have Simmons cutting to the basket with LeBron passing it to him. You'd have Simmons doing the same to LeBron. You'd have both of them feeding Embid in the post. Nevermind if they get a couple of shooters around those other three. It'll be interesting to see if he goes there this off-season. I agree with most of what you are saying and you are right, if Lebron moved to Philly they would probably be the best. But given that Simmons can't shoot and by taking the ball out of his hands you minimize his value. But even if the fit wasn't ideal Lebron on Philly is a very good team. One of the reasons I keep saying the C's need a bigman out of this draft. There are 5,6,7 that could be very good for the C's especially against Philly. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 10:00:47 GMT -5
I know everyone here thinks LeBron is a bad fit for Philly because Simmons and LeBron are a little bit of the same player, but I wouldn't want to face them with LeBron. You'd have Simmons cutting to the basket with LeBron passing it to him. You'd have Simmons doing the same to LeBron. You'd have both of them feeding Embid in the post. Nevermind if they get a couple of shooters around those other three. It'll be interesting to see if he goes there this off-season. I agree with most of what you are saying and you are right, if Lebron moved to Philly they would probably be the best. But given that Simmons can't shoot and by taking the ball out of his hands you minimize his value. But even if the fit wasn't ideal Lebron on Philly is a very good team. One of the reasons I keep saying the C's need a bigman out of this draft. There are 5,6,7 that could be very good for the C's especially against Philly. I don't think Simmons value would go down. He'd be playing a lot more minutes than LeBron and would probably be playing more with the other players on the team more often and he'd still have the ball a large majority of that time. They really are one LeBron away from becoming a title threat. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 4, 2018 10:07:00 GMT -5
Given the context of things, it’s great what’s going on, but let’s win a game on the road. Yes, I’m really hung up on the fact that over the years we cannot win playoff games on the road. One real win last year game 3 in Cleveland but that was after dropping the first 2 at home and we lost the series in 5 so I kind of put that on Cleveland losing more than us winning. Yes, there were injuries Stevens has yet to have a healthy team in the playoffs. The Sixers are young, they are talented and they have cap space and more high picks. Plus, Fultz sitting there not playing after a lost year. Even a healthy Celtics squad is going to struggle with them over the next few years. Just pray they don’t land A superstar guy with this cap room. Not long ago I was touting the Sixers as being tough for us to beat in the future and you were debating that they wouldn't be able to deal with all our great wings. Now you flip to pointing out there strengths. Bottom line is we are both right. The Sixers and the Celtics are going to be very good in the future. I do have to say that I am surprised at how effective they have been defending Simmons who had been a triple double machine for weeks. That would be why I am more confident in the C's future right now, lets see if he can adjust but the C's have locked him down. The way I remember it was you arguing the Celtics needed to change and get a big man who could be like Embiid and I was arguing you don’t change your identity to counter what another team can do when you can be great doing what you’re doing. That’s where I said good luck dealing with out wings. Never meant that to mean Philly couldn’t compete. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 4, 2018 10:07:54 GMT -5
I know everyone here thinks LeBron is a bad fit for Philly because Simmons and LeBron are a little bit of the same player, but I wouldn't want to face them with LeBron. You'd have Simmons cutting to the basket with LeBron passing it to him. You'd have Simmons doing the same to LeBron. You'd have both of them feeding Embid in the post. Nevermind if they get a couple of shooters around those other three. It'll be interesting to see if he goes there this off-season. I agree with most of what you are saying and you are right, if Lebron moved to Philly they would probably be the best. But given that Simmons can't shoot and by taking the ball out of his hands you minimize his value. But even if the fit wasn't ideal Lebron on Philly is a very good team. One of the reasons I keep saying the C's need a bigman out of this draft. There are 5,6,7 that could be very good for the C's especially against Philly. LeBron isn’t a great 3 point shooter but he’s pretty solid now. Close to 37% on a high volume. |
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Post by sarasoxer on May 4, 2018 13:02:42 GMT -5
In regards to Rozier and the future. I would trade him and whatever future pick it would cost to move up in this draft to get the bigman of the future. This draft has a lot of them and it is the last piece of the puzzle to become the dominant team in the league for years. Add one more cost effective star at a position of need to this team and forgetaboutit!! This draft has more bigmen in it than any I can remember and I have been following for a long time. Robert Williams is intriguing, no outside shot but fits defensively and many other ways. He isn't projected high so he would be available via trade with all the assets Danny has and it wouldn't be very costly. There are bigs up and down this draft and the C's should go get one of them regardless the cost if they want to shoot for the moon or a mid round guy. I really just think it is time for Danny to use an asset or 2 to get what this team needs to go over the top for the next 6+ years. And Rozier has just given him another really strong asset to use for the good of the team. Then again the C's could get beyond lucky with the 2.9% chance they have with the Laker pick of getting 2 or 3. The way things have been going here in Boston I wouldn't be surprised. Makes sense. Reverse the Bias curse. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2018 13:42:05 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you are saying and you are right, if Lebron moved to Philly they would probably be the best. But given that Simmons can't shoot and by taking the ball out of his hands you minimize his value. But even if the fit wasn't ideal Lebron on Philly is a very good team. One of the reasons I keep saying the C's need a bigman out of this draft. There are 5,6,7 that could be very good for the C's especially against Philly. I don't think Simmons value would go down. He'd be playing a lot more minutes than LeBron and would probably be playing more with the other players on the team more often and he'd still have the ball a large majority of that time. They really are one LeBron away from becoming a title threat. Yes they would be a title threat with Lebron but in what world does Simmons play a lot more minutes than Lebron? |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2018 13:50:58 GMT -5
In regards to Rozier and the future. I would trade him and whatever future pick it would cost to move up in this draft to get the bigman of the future. This draft has a lot of them and it is the last piece of the puzzle to become the dominant team in the league for years. Add one more cost effective star at a position of need to this team and forgetaboutit!! This draft has more bigmen in it than any I can remember and I have been following for a long time. Robert Williams is intriguing, no outside shot but fits defensively and many other ways. He isn't projected high so he would be available via trade with all the assets Danny has and it wouldn't be very costly. There are bigs up and down this draft and the C's should go get one of them regardless the cost if they want to shoot for the moon or a mid round guy. I really just think it is time for Danny to use an asset or 2 to get what this team needs to go over the top for the next 6+ years. And Rozier has just given him another really strong asset to use for the good of the team. Then again the C's could get beyond lucky with the 2.9% chance they have with the Laker pick of getting 2 or 3. The way things have been going here in Boston I wouldn't be surprised. Makes sense. Reverse the Bias curse. The Bias curse and the Duncan miss all reversed at once. Could you imagine Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Hayward, Smart and one more really good big. There are 5 or 6 in this draft that I think would fit that spot and the C's can get 1 if they want. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 4, 2018 13:53:41 GMT -5
Few things from last game. Best way to kill the Celtics offense is to crowd the three point line. The Bucks did it in stretches and that's what the Sixers did to get their big lead. It takes away all our ball movement, which is basically side to side above the three point line. At the same time it opens up the paint, which is why teams can only do it in stretches. I hope Stevens is letting them know next time they do that, go right at the basket and stop trying to move the ball above the three point line.
Not long ago people were questioning Rozier ability to run the offense. Do you still feel that way? I'm just as impressed by how he runs the offense as I am with his scoring. He keeps the perfect tempo, keeps the ball moving, and his drives when he kicks it out for wide open threes or to Tatum for a driving dunk are huge for the offense. The two on one fast break where he threw a lob to Tatum, just shows how far he's come. The Rozier that entered the league would have just tried to score, but not Scary Terry. He's the engine to our offense right now. When he struggles, it takes away easy baskets and good looks for other players and the team struggles.
The Sixers being young and not really knowing how to win was on full display in game two. They had no clue how to react to the Celtics run. Why in the world does Embiid just stop posting up? Even though Embiid can shot, I love watching him take threes and turn around jumpers from 18 feet. It takes away his offensive rebounding. I also have to laugh at Simmons thinking it wasn't the Celtics and it was just him. The Celtics played him crazy physical and frankly got away with a ton of fouls, but that's playoff basketball.
Simmons lack of shooting is why I'd make him a point power forward. I mean he's not even Rondo or Smart, he won't even try shooting. I can't remember any full-time PG that won't even try shooting. The other issues is Fultz also acted like he can't shoot. I don't know if it was his injury, but that shocked me given his freshman season. If Fultz isn't a great shooter, that pairing doesn't work at all. You need a great shooter like Reddick next to Simmons.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 4, 2018 13:59:19 GMT -5
His nickname is Jay Smooth but feel free to change it and come up with a new one That reminds me of Rozier being T-RO, nothing special. Now Scary Terry is great. Tatum needs a very good nickname because he's going to be special. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 4, 2018 14:10:46 GMT -5
Hate to be a buzzkill here but with the Cavs and the Warriors or Rockets coming up, its hard for me to get too excited about this. Another round of playoff experience for the young guys would be nice but how helpful would it be really. Secondly - do we sell high on Rozier this offseason? If so, what would be the desired return? The more playoff rounds the better for these guys. I can’t put an answer on how helpful as I think guys like Tatum and Brown and Rozier have proven to themselves they can be aggressive and be a go to type guy and shouldn’t hesitate which is what we wanted them to get. But it’s also just fun watching them. If someone is going treat Rozier like a future All-star/ James Harden in a trade, then hell yes you trade him, but anything short of that then no. For example if you can get Leonard for something like him, Smart and Morris while keeping Brown and Tatum because Rozier is suddenly a substitute for one of them then surely you deal him. By the way, yes you can lose both Smart and Rozier if you added Leonard. Not happening but that’s just my example. How do you play Horford , Irving, Hayward, Tatum, Brown and Leonard? He's a very good player, but I don't get that mix at all. Frankly given Tatum, Brown and Hayward not sure why everyone keeps bringing up Leonard. You also have to question his injury, which seemed minor but cost him the year. The value makes sense, even though the money doesn't. You'd have to add a bunch more players to match salary. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 14:15:02 GMT -5
I don't think Simmons value would go down. He'd be playing a lot more minutes than LeBron and would probably be playing more with the other players on the team more often and he'd still have the ball a large majority of that time. They really are one LeBron away from becoming a title threat. Yes they would be a title threat with Lebron but in what world does Simmons play a lot more minutes than Lebron? LeBron will be 34 next year, I believe. His next team and contract will or should have a minutes restriction in season. Got to keep him fresh as he gets older, especially in time for the playoffs. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 14:21:36 GMT -5
Steven A. Smith was bringing up Kyrie for Leonard trade ideas earlier. Thought that was all interesting. Defense would be even better, which is scary to think about.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on May 4, 2018 15:43:16 GMT -5
Edit: for some reason the quoted text vanished. What follows is in response to the question about Terry Rozier "running the offense." Yes. I question his ability to "run the offense." I don't see him presently "running the offense." I see him advance the ball across half court (slowly), dribble for a bit before someone sets a screen, dribble, hand off to a teammate, wander off. The pass to Tatum was nice, but also came on a 3-1 fast break though many similar fast breaks have been botched this year). Running a FB is a real opportunity of improvement for Rozier, and the C's in general. I would caution looking at assist totals and claiming he's mastered the position. Assists are incredibly easy to come by in Boston. The official scorer is most generous. Did you hear the PA announcement on Al's driving bucket with 8 seconds left? "Assisted by Rozier." I don't mean to knock him though. He's playing good ball and by all accounts seems to be a good dude. But when you have a team with a lot of good offensive players you don't necessarily need someone to "run it." I think Al runs it as much as anyone, including Kyrie. Tony Parker doesn't/didn't run the Spurs offense. Did Dennis Johnson run the 86 C's offense? Did Larry Bird? I'm real pleased with how Rozier is playing. Let's hope he keeps it up. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 15:55:03 GMT -5
Yeah I agree benogliviesbrother, if anything Horford and Tatum are running the offense (mostly Horford) and Rozier's game compliments them.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 4, 2018 16:25:40 GMT -5
Hate to be a buzzkill here but with the Cavs and the Warriors or Rockets coming up, its hard for me to get too excited about this. Another round of playoff experience for the young guys would be nice but how helpful would it be really. Secondly - do we sell high on Rozier this offseason? If so, what would be the desired return? We can beat the Cavs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 4, 2018 16:27:40 GMT -5
Edit: for some reason the quoted text vanished. What follows is in response to the question about Terry Rozier "running the offense." Yes. I question his ability to "run the offense." I don't see him presently "running the offense." I see him advance the ball across half court (slowly), dribble for a bit before someone sets a screen, dribble, hand off to a teammate, wander off. The pass to Tatum was nice, but also came on a 3-1 fast break though many similar fast breaks have been botched this year). Running a FB is a real opportunity of improvement for Rozier, and the C's in general. I would caution looking at assist totals and claiming he's mastered the position. Assists are incredibly easy to come by in Boston. The official scorer is most generous. Did you hear the PA announcement on Al's driving bucket with 8 seconds left? "Assisted by Rozier." I don't mean to knock him though. He's playing good ball and by all accounts seems to be a good dude. But when you have a team with a lot of good offensive players you don't necessarily need someone to "run it." I think Al runs it as much as anyone, including Kyrie. Tony Parker doesn't/didn't run the Spurs offense. Did Dennis Johnson run the 86 C's offense? Did Larry Bird? I'm real pleased with how Rozier is playing. Let's hope he keeps it up. That's how you run Stevens offense, the last thing he wants is a Rondo pounding the ball for 20 seconds. He wants his PGs keeping the tempo, getting everyone involved and creating for others. Has he mastered the position? Nope, but he's running our offense very well. I question the assist on that Horford play. I thought the samething when the announcer said that, at the same time Rozier drew two defenders, which gave Horford a lane to the basket. He did help create that. That's one assist, talk about trying to totally downplay his impact. Yes Tony Parker ran the Spurs offense back in the day. I'm waaay too young to have watched Dennis Johnson and Larry Bird. I barely remember watching them, I was 10 years old when Bird retired. Thinking Horford runs our offense more than Rozier is crazy. He's a crazy important part, but he doesn't run anything. As Charles Barkley said that huge run at the end of the second quarter was all Rozier. Kenny Smith has been praising his ability to run the offense and set the tempo. Which he says is the most important part of running the offense. Along with Shaq calling him the real deal. Franky I don't think you know how Stevens wants a PG to run his offense. Rozier is a big part of Tatum, Brown and Horford going off in these playoffs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 4, 2018 16:30:46 GMT -5
Yeah I agree benogliviesbrother, if anything Horford and Tatum are running the offense (mostly Horford) and Rozier's game compliments them. I hate to say this because Tatum has been awesome, but he's not creating and running anything. He's been a lethal scorer and clutch defender. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 4, 2018 16:58:48 GMT -5
Yeah I agree benogliviesbrother, if anything Horford and Tatum are running the offense (mostly Horford) and Rozier's game compliments them. I hate to say this because Tatum has been awesome, but he's not creating and running anything. He's been a lethal scorer and clutch defender. The ball finds his hands and he's creating shots by driving to the basket and shooting real well though. He's also been passing the ball really well too. |
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