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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 24, 2018 17:58:29 GMT -5
It's not just about numbers and that was my point bofore the series. It's about how his team plays and frankly he's a big part of the problem. Take game three and four he got his teammates going. He hasn't done that in the three losses, he just plays hero ball. He doesn't seem to have adjusted to playing without other star players like he did before he went to Miami. They get down or it gets close and it's all hero ball. LeBron got killed after game 2 for not taking over after the 1st and trying to get his teammates involved. Then does the same thing in games 3 and 4 but his team hits shots and he’s a genius for getting them involved. Now game 5 he’s playing hero ball? Did we watch the same game last night? If anything, I’d say that when he’s not getting the calls from the refs and his teammates aren’t hitting shots then he’s not the God he is when those things are happening. Go back and watch game 3 and the first half of game 4 and you'll see what I mean. That team moved the ball and LeBron didn't play a crap load of iso ball. He scored within the offense. Are you trying to say he didn't play iso all game long in game 5? That's exactly what he did. Sure he makes passes, but the whole team is acting like just shooters zero creating outside of Love. That doesn't allow players to get in a rhythm. Anyone that calls out LeBron because he can't score 21 points every quarter is an idiot. At the same time teams can't just turn on and off team basketball and that's why LeBron hurts them. Someone asked why Rozier kept shooting lastnight, the answer is simple you don't ever ask a player to change his game. That's basically what the Cavs do all the time. It worked with a great scorer like Irving, it doesn't work for normal players though. You can't just go I'll play team ball if the shooters are on and iso if they miss a few shots. Look Rozier misses like 12 shots in a row, but makes his last two to help ice the game. We've seen the same exact thing with Brown and Tatum before. Players go hot and cold even when you play 4 quarters of team ball. Nevermind trying to expect players to be on at certain points after doing nothing but watching LeBron for however long he plays hero ball till he decides to try and get guys going. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 24, 2018 18:04:34 GMT -5
I think it's more of a talent issue on the Cavs. They aren't good as a collective group. Outside of Love, I don't think I'd want another player off their roster even if they were given to the Celtics. I’d take Korver off the bench for certain situations... Nance or Thompson would be nice to have as insurance... but yea it’s rough The talent level isn't horrible, neither is it great. Guys like Hill, Nance, Thompson, Hood, Clarkson, Korver and Green are all solid Vets. You just need to know how to use them right. Lets not forget you talked up that talent after they made those trade and kept bringing up the record they had. Oh how quick you change your opinion. Now it's just a crap team. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 24, 2018 18:18:15 GMT -5
I’d take Korver off the bench for certain situations... Nance or Thompson would be nice to have as insurance... but yea it’s rough The talent level isn't horrible, neither is it great. Guys like Hill, Nance, Thompson, Hood, Clarkson, Korver and Green are all solid Vets. You just need to know how to use them right. Lets not forget you talked up that talent after they made those trade and kept bringing up the record they had. Oh how quick you change your opinion. Now it's just a crap team. Well the Cavs probably don't even get this far if they don't trade for these players and blow it up midseason. They can still be a crap team full of role players and fit in with a LeBron James dominant team. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 24, 2018 18:24:56 GMT -5
The talent level isn't horrible, neither is it great. Guys like Hill, Nance, Thompson, Hood, Clarkson, Korver and Green are all solid Vets. You just need to know how to use them right. Lets not forget you talked up that talent after they made those trade and kept bringing up the record they had. Oh how quick you change your opinion. Now it's just a crap team. Well the Cavs probably don't even get this far if they don't trade for these players and blow it up midseason. They can still be a crap team full of role players and fit in with a LeBron James dominant team. How do you figure that? The minute they struggled in the playoffs Lue turned to the players they had all along in Thompson, Korver, Smith and Green. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 24, 2018 18:28:30 GMT -5
Well the Cavs probably don't even get this far if they don't trade for these players and blow it up midseason. They can still be a crap team full of role players and fit in with a LeBron James dominant team. How do you figure that? The minute they struggled in the playoffs Lue turned to the players they had all along in Thompson, Korver, Smith and Green. Addition by subtraction of IT and Crowder. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 24, 2018 20:43:10 GMT -5
I’d take Korver off the bench for certain situations... Nance or Thompson would be nice to have as insurance... but yea it’s rough The talent level isn't horrible, neither is it great. Guys like Hill, Nance, Thompson, Hood, Clarkson, Korver and Green are all solid Vets. You just need to know how to use them right. Lets not forget you talked up that talent after they made those trade and kept bringing up the record they had. Oh how quick you change your opinion. Now it's just a crap team. They’ve played like crap this series... especially on the road. I actually have the ability to change my opinion - I don’t just double down on my takes for the sake of defending my pride or defending a bad take (say something like the Celtics are a better offensive team without Kyrie). The problem with this series is we have yet to see what happens when both teams play well at the same time. Would not be a surprise if Cavs still won this series. Game 7 and LeBron is a different animal if he hasn’t already moved on mentally. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 24, 2018 20:53:32 GMT -5
I’d rate the players in this series something like this: 1. LeBron . . . . .. .... ........ ....... 2. Horford 3. Tatum/Love/Brown 6. Rozier (at home) 7. Hill/Smart 9: Morris/ Smith 11: Green/ Korver So this is how I rated the players before the series. It’s still fairly accurate, in my opinion, but it’s hard to really judge because the two teams have been completely different at home and on the road. LeBron is the only guy basically impervious to the home road issues. Game 6 will be an extreme disappointment if the Celtics don’t show up. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2018 21:17:11 GMT -5
I said it last night and I mean it. Kyle Korver scares the crap out of me. But Ty Lue doesn’t. The guy literally said Ojeleye not playing thru him for a loop so Korver didn’t play as much. I mean I totally understand looking at Semi and saying “ok when he’s in, I want this lineup to exploit him”, but it should never affect you that much when he doesn’t play. Idiot Coach Lue is 100% a dumbass, but he's somewhat good at adjusting between games. I expect to see more Korver and less Thompson. Which ironically would inevitably bring Semi back to the rotation. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2018 23:00:38 GMT -5
Man oh man they need to come out next game playing like their a** is on fire, there's a chance we could get the Rockets with a banged up CP3 at the Finals? Come on man. Come on man.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 25, 2018 6:19:25 GMT -5
Man oh man they need to come out next game playing like their a** is on fire, there's a chance we could get the Rockets with a banged up CP3 at the Finals? Come on man. Come on man.I don’t know why I’d expect anything but a Cavs blow out tonight, but I’m holding out hope we play well. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 25, 2018 6:51:30 GMT -5
How do you figure that? The minute they struggled in the playoffs Lue turned to the players they had all along in Thompson, Korver, Smith and Green. Addition by subtraction of IT and Crowder. Both of those players played better the minute they got out of Cleveland. Wonder why. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 25, 2018 6:56:42 GMT -5
The talent level isn't horrible, neither is it great. Guys like Hill, Nance, Thompson, Hood, Clarkson, Korver and Green are all solid Vets. You just need to know how to use them right. Lets not forget you talked up that talent after they made those trade and kept bringing up the record they had. Oh how quick you change your opinion. Now it's just a crap team. They’ve played like crap this series... especially on the road. I actually have the ability to change my opinion - I don’t just double down on my takes for the sake of defending my pride or defending a bad take (say something like the Celtics are a better offensive team without Kyrie). The problem with this series is we have yet to see what happens when both teams play well at the same time. Would not be a surprise if Cavs still won this series. Game 7 and LeBron is a different animal if he hasn’t already moved on mentally. It's a fact, they are averaging more points, but keep trying to argue that. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 25, 2018 7:05:52 GMT -5
Man oh man they need to come out next game playing like their a** is on fire, there's a chance we could get the Rockets with a banged up CP3 at the Finals? Come on man. Come on man.The Rockets have been playing crazy good D, but man that offense is hard to watch sometimes. Watching Paul take 4 bad shots in a row is kinda crazy. I've never seen him do that before. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 25, 2018 7:50:39 GMT -5
They’ve played like crap this series... especially on the road. I actually have the ability to change my opinion - I don’t just double down on my takes for the sake of defending my pride or defending a bad take (say something like the Celtics are a better offensive team without Kyrie). The problem with this series is we have yet to see what happens when both teams play well at the same time. Would not be a surprise if Cavs still won this series. Game 7 and LeBron is a different animal if he hasn’t already moved on mentally. It's a fact, they are averaging more points, but keep trying to argue that. Cause and affect: ProBoards hired UMass and a couple months later their heating bills went way up. UMass must be the reason for that... maybe he is but more likely there’s other reasons. And yes I know this is a loose simplistic example. The reality is a basketball team and a scoring average has waaaay more variables that are harder to diagnose. I had a much longer response but I’ll spare the continued debate; we can agree to disagree. This debate will never get settled one way or another because there are so many variables on a basketball court and even next year Hayward will be around and guys will be a year older and some gone etc. I’ll just be happy they are playing well but wishing Kyrie was healthy and here and you can be happy with the way they are playing and feel thankful that Kyrie is hurt because you think they are better without him. At the end of the day we are both happy and the teams winning. Win win 😀 |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 25, 2018 7:52:00 GMT -5
Man oh man they need to come out next game playing like their a** is on fire, there's a chance we could get the Rockets with a banged up CP3 at the Finals? Come on man. Come on man.The Rockets have been playing crazy good D, but man that offense is hard to watch sometimes. Watching Paul take 4 bad shots in a row is kinda crazy. I've never seen him do that before. I refuse to talk about those teams right now. This series isn’t over yet. |
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 25, 2018 9:28:43 GMT -5
Celtics played hard but sloppy. They can be better in game 6. I loved Brad's rotation tonight. I like Semi and all but he can't be playing minutes in this series, same as Monroe or obviously Yabu. I hope they avoid foul trouble so they can ride the top 7 guys. Lebron looked EXHAUSTED and he won't get much rest til friday. This could be huge, but he's not exactly human so whatever. The idea is very simple. The Celts use Ojeleye to dog James early and wear him down. Then they put on track shoes in the second half and run away (though they could have gotten a lot further if it wasn't such a lousy shooting night). That's the strategy and it's worked as planned, twice so far. It isn't about offense, it's about defense. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 25, 2018 9:32:35 GMT -5
Celtics played hard but sloppy. They can be better in game 6. I loved Brad's rotation tonight. I like Semi and all but he can't be playing minutes in this series, same as Monroe or obviously Yabu. I hope they avoid foul trouble so they can ride the top 7 guys. Lebron looked EXHAUSTED and he won't get much rest til friday. This could be huge, but he's not exactly human so whatever. The idea is very simple. The Celts use Ojeleye to dog James early and wear him down. Then they put on track shoes in the second half and run away (though they could have gotten a lot further if it wasn't such a lousy shooting night). That's the strategy and it's worked as planned, twice so far. It isn't about offense, it's about defense. I’m starting to buy a little bit of the LeBron wasn’t really tired conspiracy theory. He started acting tired 5 minutes into the game.... that’s just not possible |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 25, 2018 9:34:50 GMT -5
The Rockets have been playing crazy good D, but man that offense is hard to watch sometimes. Watching Paul take 4 bad shots in a row is kinda crazy. I've never seen him do that before. Man tell me about, I don't understand what's been the plan for these teams most of the series. Paul hit a ridiculously contested 3 in the 4th and then he... Tried 2 more in a row? Where he just dribbled the ball and threw it up? What?! Where's the drive and kick? For the Warriors, where is Curry/Durant pick and roll? People don't screen for cutters anymore? This is super weird. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 25, 2018 9:37:08 GMT -5
The idea is very simple. The Celts use Ojeleye to dog James early and wear him down. Then they put on track shoes in the second half and run away (though they could have gotten a lot further if it wasn't such a lousy shooting night). That's the strategy and it's worked as planned, twice so far. It isn't about offense, it's about defense. That's not a bad plan, but Semi can't be a total 0 on offense or fools will just let him open and guard the other 4 guys. He needs to hit a couple of shots and make them pay, which I don't really have confidence he can do at this point. |
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 25, 2018 11:45:52 GMT -5
I understand. It's good to have all 5 on the floor be serious scoring threats, and it doesn't always work out well when they aren't. But when it does they can storm ahead and often stay there. We'll see what Stevens has up his sleeve for tonight's game.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 25, 2018 14:50:49 GMT -5
It's a fact, they are averaging more points, but keep trying to argue that. Cause and affect: ProBoards hired UMass and a couple months later their heating bills went way up. UMass must be the reason for that... maybe he is but more likely there’s other reasons. And yes I know this is a loose simplistic example. The reality is a basketball team and a scoring average has waaaay more variables that are harder to diagnose. I had a much longer response but I’ll spare the continued debate; we can agree to disagree. This debate will never get settled one way or another because there are so many variables on a basketball court and even next year Hayward will be around and guys will be a year older and some gone etc. I’ll just be happy they are playing well but wishing Kyrie was healthy and here and you can be happy with the way they are playing and feel thankful that Kyrie is hurt because you think they are better without him. At the end of the day we are both happy and the teams winning. Win win 😀 If you looked at this mathematically looking at the variables it fairly clear. Rozier is a big reason why, its that simple. Sure it's not 100% him, never said it was. Just like your example look at the varables and you get your answer. LeBron is litterally giving a 101 lesson on how iso ball can have a negative impact on other players. Guess who Irving learned from? Both are great players and both have proven they can win with the right players in the right system. They have also proven they can kill ball movement. Stevens whole system is ball movement. While I hate to see Irving hurt, it has turned into a blessing in about 15 different ways, but sure we can agree to disagree. I've made by point and I'm not alone in that opinion. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 25, 2018 14:57:03 GMT -5
Not sure how you use Semi to dog LeBron when they just keep switching. Given how the Cavs haven't been able to adjust to our double switch I wouldn't change a thing untill they adjust in a way that hurts us.
I wouldn't have much faith in Lue adjusting or his adjustments working.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 25, 2018 19:58:56 GMT -5
Feels like we've been here before a lot, but Horford needs to play bigger in games like this. He missed a couple of very makeable looks there that brought the Cavs back to this one.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 25, 2018 20:05:47 GMT -5
I’m not sure what to say because I’m in shock we aren’t being blown out let alone that we are up 5 after 1. Shock to the system.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 25, 2018 20:05:56 GMT -5
On the other hand, doubling Horford might be the biggest Coach Lue Move ever. Horford is going to move the ball and find someone open, he's probably the best passer on the team and unlike James he isn't unstoppable going to the rim. So why even do it?
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