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2018 Patriots/NFL offseason thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 17, 2018 9:02:53 GMT -5
The Patriots should probably draft a OT in the early rounds if the draft has a guy worth drafting that high. In my 20 years as a die-hard NFL draft guy this has to be the most confusing group of OT, maybe ever. Most have Connor Williams rated #1, with some people saying he's the best OT prospect in two years. Others have him rated as a round 2-4 pick. They never all agree, but you usually don't see that type of difference in rankings at the top of the rankings. Connor Williams and Mike McGlinchey are the top two LT prospects, most likely you'd need to trade up for them. There are some interesting guys on the next level in Kolton Miller, Brian O'Neil, and Martinas Rankin. All three have the size and athleticism to play LT in the pro's . Miller looks like a Solder clone, but has had injury issues. I wanted to like Orlando Brown after his poor workout, as he was a first round pick by everyone before the combine. Game tape is better at evaluating a player than the combine. He just seems like a RT, not a LT. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 17, 2018 10:00:19 GMT -5
They also signed Matt Tobin OT to a one year deal. Clayborn is 2 years, maximum value of 12.5 million. We needed an upgrade, nice move. Tobin sucks, so hope this is a near minimum deal. Will like the Hill deal if he's cheap. Just filling holes and creating depth, typical Patriot moves. It’s hard for me to judge offensive linemen who don’t play here but we typically do a good job of finding them and developing them and I have a lot of faith in Dante. Tobin is pretty young still so theoretically he’s in that upswing part of his career. These guys develop late and come from no where a lot of the time. Tobin is long and athletic, runs a sub 5 40, so hopefully Dante can work his magic again. I expect thats what the Pats are hoping for and it should be on the cheap. I like the Claiborne and Hill signings. I agree with umass on the sacks though. He got all those sacks against Dallas when the starter went down and the backup sucked. But he should be a good rotation piece. BB has always preferred bigger backs and the Pats have a good history of success with them dating back to Smith and Dillon, Hill could be a great signing. Agree with Umass also on the SB loss. I can't help but think the Butler decision hurt the teams chances of winning and could have a negative affect on the locker room. Kind of sucks to think BB screwed that up. Maybe I am wrong but seems to me like that is the case. With all the extra picks the Pats have coming next year it gives the Pats some more assets to facilitate more deals, that is the silver lining in the losses. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2018 12:45:12 GMT -5
sports.yahoo.com/compensatory-pick-formula-may-impact-154453306.htmlYou don't want to lose a third round pick. So we need other players to sign elsewhere for decent money like Slater, Flowers, Waddle, or Fleming before we sign anyone that counts towards the pick formula. I will point out only the top 32 contracts count. So not sure how they can rank Tobin before we even know his contract details. Example Blount qualified for a comp pick last year, but we didn't get a pick because it wasn't a top 32nd contract. I'm assuming Tobins contract is just like that. Does a non top 32 contract, still count against you? Would seem crazy if you couldn't get a pick for them leaving that they could cost you a pick. Ebron makes sense, so does recently released DE Robert Ayers. Ayers didn't have many sacks, but he had a ton of QB hits and hurries. Was also great against the run.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2018 19:59:31 GMT -5
We have traded for Cordarrelle Patterson. Traded a 5th and got back a 6th. He makes 3 million next year. I really hate this move. Yes he is a great returner, but the game has changed. We only have returned 57 kicks in the last two years combined. 10 years ago this would have been great, not now. 3 million is a ton of cap space for the impact he'll have. He cost more than McCourty a starting level CB. Raiders were going to release him and unlike McCourty I don't see how he comes close to earning 3 million.
This just seems like the start of what they did last year, keep trading for marginal players that might not even make the team while costing us draft capital.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2018 20:00:05 GMT -5
Pats traded for Cordarell Paterson.. sent a back of balls (5th rd pick but got back a 6)... remember when people were pissed Bill didn’t draft him? I think they traded back instead.
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Post by oilcan73 on Mar 19, 2018 6:12:13 GMT -5
This Patterson trade makes no sense to me. He has been a complete bust and there is no way he is worth the $3 million cap hit. They have so many larger needs that this. I would not have paid the price for the free agents NE lost this year, but those losses coupled with the fact that I really think guys like Brady and Gronk are unhappy these days gives me a bad feeling for the 2018 season. Not to mention, that teams like Jax, Tenn, Buff and Houston appear to be improving as well. This great ride has to end at some point, but I hoped that it would last another 3-4 years. The fact that TB12 has not extended makes me feel he might be done after 2 years, when they will also likely lose Gronk and Edelman and the days could be numbered for guys like McCourty and Hightower.
I really believe the whole Jimmy G issue did actually divide TB12 and BB a bit. I can understand BB wanting to go with Jimmy G. The fact is, that was probably the only way to keep this dynasty alive and well for another 10 years. going with Brady definitely tightens the window for another SB title and could leave them weak in a few years. How does BB go about ensuring that does not happen?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2018 10:21:49 GMT -5
I don't think many Patriots are Happy. We lost a Superbowl we could/should have won. Those hurt and take a long time to get over. The whole Butler thing might have players questioning Bill, which normally doesn't happen on the Patriots. Butler's contract shows the ways teams value him. Bill really tried to be too cute in my opinion. I can win without Butler and he would have if not for Jones getting injured against the Jags. At the same time I'm not really worried about 2018. As a player you will get over it, when you realize Bill is the greatest ever. You will have another chance next year.
I brought up Brady and his contract a while back. I don't know if him not restructuring by adding years is him unhappy. He has made the case he'll play out his deal for years now. He might not want to extended it because of that. Frankly anything beyond that was always going to be gravy for me. He's getting old, can't expect him to play forever. He's already doing things that have never been done before.
When Brady leaves we are going to be rebuilding, most likely. Unless they can nail the next couple drafts, which could happen. Wouldn't surprise me to see Bill land an epic class this year, nor have Rivers and Garcia turn into great players. Then next year we have those extra picks. A couple years from now the team could be stacked with great young players. That's how we have been dominant for like 20 years. Great drafting, value signings and the best depth year after year.
How Bill fills the LT hole will be interesting. It paints him into a corner and Bill doesn't normally draft that way. Heck he might think he already has his LT in Garcia and Tobin is the fill in to he's ready. I'm down on Tobin, but as others have pointed out he has some good traits. Wouldn't be surprised to see him do a lot better than I think he will. The Patriots adjust there game plan around there talent better than any team ever. If they need to keep a TE in to protect Brady they will. If they need to switch to more of a power running game, than a spread offense they will. Watching Bill shape his system around the players and not the other way, has been one of the more enjoyable things for the past 20 years.
Heck I question the Patterson trade, too much money. Yet if he makes the team, I can see Bill finding ways to maximize his talent. His past comments about finding different ways to get him the ball like screens and WR runs. I just like Hill more and his cap hit is just over 1.3 million.
McCourty is interesting. Still a good player, but his cap number is crazy starting next year. It's in line with the best safeties and he's just not truly elite. Some people have been saying watch out for Justin Reid S from Standford. That the Pats love him and will draft him, maybe in the first round. Makes sense because you can't pay McCourty like 8% of the cap if he's not a dominant player. Thing is he could always restructure and after getting big money I can see that happening. Something to keep an eye on that's for sure.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 19, 2018 11:15:59 GMT -5
Patterson has no dead money attached to him if he doesn't make the team. The Patriots aren't risking much if he doesn't make the team. The swapping of the picks make no sense, but Bill does everything different than most teams. Most teams would have gotten more for Jimmy G.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Mar 19, 2018 11:17:15 GMT -5
I actually like the Patterson trade. The Patriots can still cut him with no dead money and only be out for his 250k workout bonus and moving down in the late part of the draft. This also gives them decent leverage to restructure/extend his deal at some point before the season starts if he appears to be a good fit. It seems like Bill is securing his special teams units now so he can concentrate on offensive and defensive contributors in the draft, rather than upgrading high round draft prospects based on their special teams versatility. There's little doubt other teams will usually look to boot the ball out of the end zone to avoid Patterson returns, but he might play up in the late season/playoff cold weather home games where the ball becomes harder and the wind/elements make kicks weaker.
If Patterson is only a kick returner his salary is obviously too high, but I don't think it's a lock that's all he is. I can see him being a core special teamer, he has blazing speed and great athleticism so he can profile on all/multiple ST units, and he has experience as a gunner. The Patriots have paid Slater and Ebner good money (Slater in the past/Ebner recently), so if Patterson is a more expensive but more versatile Slater replacement I'd prefer that to overpaying a 33 year old Slater.
I really doubt Patterson will be getting regular snaps at WR with the stacked group they already have, but I have to think Josh will get creative looks for him. Ironically Patterson and Amendola are the only receivers in football the last two years to have a catch rate of 73% or higher while catching 80+ balls. Patterson is a poor route runner which is a bad fit with Tom, but we know McDaniels loves his jet sweeps and screens which fit Patterson well, and Josh has put unconventional players in the backfield for certain looks (remember Aaron Hernandez in the backfield?) and Patterson has experience doing that as well. The fact that he played in poor offensive schemes in Minne/Oakland give me some hope of offensive upside. I think Bill either loves his profile as a core special teamer and/or thinks he can be a contributor on offense, even if a limited/gadget type role is his ultimate offensive upside here. With him and Britt it appears Bill is trying to diversify his WR group with some size + athleticism combos. While it's possible Bill overvalues special teams there's no doubt he has one of the best eyes for special teams talent evaluation in NFL history, so targeting Patterson has me intrigued .
The early moves feel like Bill wants to emphasize camp depth and competition this year, which makes sense after fielding one of his more shallow/top heavy 90 man rosters last camp.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2018 11:58:33 GMT -5
Not sure how you can question our depth last year. We had a ton of injuries that hit our D hard. Our depth allowed us to still make the Superbowl.
I have no Problem with paying core special team players. Hence why I didn't say anything about Bolden, King or Ebner being signed. That was 4.2 million of our cap space. Patterson is now another 3.25 million in cap space. That's over 25% of our available cap space for the year. If your looking to be depth how does that make sense? That's likely more than Hill and Tobin will make combined. Look at where we found Slater and Ebner. You can get great special teamers for cheap, in late rounds of the draft or even as undrafted guys. 3.25 million is top of the mark for special team players.
They might be able to run a few plays a game for Patterson, trick type plays. I just don't see how he's a great fit as a WR. Brady likes WRs that run great routes. Are where they should be at all times. That is the exact opposite of Patterson. He's more of a throw it to me if I get open type player. He's just not a good WR, even though he has great size and speed. I wanted a bigger receiver, but this seems like a horrible fit.
Yes after you pay him the 250,000 workout bonus you can cut him and only be on the hook for 250,000, not 3.25 million. Thing is by then most good free agents are already signed. For example you won't be able to sign an OT like Fleming then if Tobin sucks and we havd injuries. Losing the ability to use that 3.25 million now is a loss. What you can get with that money now is far greater than later during camp.
The NFL keeps changing the rules so special teams matter less and less,yet Bill seems to be pouring more and more resources into them each year. It makes no sense. If less and less kick offs keep getting returned, doesn't the value of a good gunner go down?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2018 13:05:42 GMT -5
Patterson has no dead money attached to him if he doesn't make the team. The Patriots aren't risking much if he doesn't make the team. The swapping of the picks make no sense, but Bill does everything different than most teams. Most teams would have gotten more for Jimmy G. I thought I was going to give this post a like then you said the swapping of the picks makes no sense. It’s a small move back late in the draft for the rights to a player like Patterson. I don’t see how that makes no sense. |
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Post by beasleyrockah on Mar 19, 2018 17:12:49 GMT -5
Not sure how you can question our depth last year. We had a ton of injuries that hit our D hard. Our depth allowed us to still make the Superbowl. I have no Problem with paying core special team players. Hence why I didn't say anything about Bolden, King or Ebner being signed. That was 4.2 million of our cap space. Patterson is now another 3.25 million in cap space. That's over 25% of our available cap space for the year. If your looking to be depth how does that make sense? That's likely more than Hill and Tobin will make combined. Look at where we found Slater and Ebner. You can get great special teamers for cheap, in late rounds of the draft or even as undrafted guys. 3.25 million is top of the mark for special team players. They might be able to run a few plays a game for Patterson, trick type plays. I just don't see how he's a great fit as a WR. Brady likes WRs that run great routes. Are where they should be at all times. That is the exact opposite of Patterson. He's more of a throw it to me if I get open type player. He's just not a good WR, even though he has great size and speed. I wanted a bigger receiver, but this seems like a horrible fit. Yes after you pay him the 250,000 workout bonus you can cut him and only be on the hook for 250,000, not 3.25 million. Thing is by then most good free agents are already signed. For example you won't be able to sign an OT like Fleming then if Tobin sucks and we havd injuries. Losing the ability to use that 3.25 million now is a loss. What you can get with that money now is far greater than later during camp. The NFL keeps changing the rules so special teams matter less and less,yet Bill seems to be pouring more and more resources into them each year. It makes no sense. If less and less kick offs keep getting returned, doesn't the value of a good gunner go down? The players who missed the majority of the year were Hightower, McClellin, Valentine, Rivers, and Cyrus Jones on defense. It's bad injury luck but the Patriots have been hit harder with injuries in the past. They lost one elite player (Hightower), two rotation guys (McClellin & Valentine), a high upside but very raw rookie (Rivers), and a ST guy who at best would compete for slot duties and serve as depth at CB (Cyrus). We can add Ninkovich to the losses, but I have to question how much he could've helped when he suggested multiple times during the early part of the season he was open to returning but admitted the Patriots never reached out. Also, he retired in camp, and it couldn't have been a complete shock to the team, the guy was busted for PEDs the year before and his play declined. They also lost Langi after the car accident, but he wasn't making an impact before the injury. Then, in the playoffs Jonathan Jones got hurt, and while he was a key loss the other guys who played all year were mostly healthy for the playoffs, so this was the only injury they didn't have much time to plan and adapt to. The offensive talent they were missing during the playoffs (Edelman, Cannon, Mitchell, Garcia) vs. the defensive talent missing (Hightower, McClellin, Rivers, Valentine, and the Jones combo) was not nearly as significant as the play between the units would indicate. The difference is the offense had quality depth behind these guys while the defense had to rely on scrap heap/replacement level guys who weren't even here for the start of camp. How many contributors were there on offense who arrived after OTAs? I count Dorsett and zero other guys. Meanwhile, the defense had real roles for six of those players: Marsh (before being cut), Lee, Harrison, Bademosi, Harris, and Jean Francois during the year. They simply didn't have sufficient depth on defense at the LB or DE positions entering camp. The DT group looked good (Branch killed them) and the CB/safety groups looked very good, but there's no arguing the LB/DE groups were the clear weak spots on the depth chart entering camp. The Hightower injury was hardly a shock, and with his durability issues they needed more depth. It never made sense to carry both Roberts and Harris behind Hightower. While McClellin and Rivers could've helped make things better, the Van Noy/Roberts/Marquis Flowers group surpassed expectations, so this wasn't even the rock bottom scenario for the LBs. As far as the Patterson contract, Ebner is coming off a mid/late season ACL tear, is strictly a ST guy, and he received an actual commitment...if he doesn't return as the same guy they'll be on the hook for 1.8m dead money on the cap the next two seasons, and if he plays he'll still be a 2.2m and 2.8m cap hit the next two seasons. I believe King was going to be a restricted FA, so he's a bit different too. Patterson's cap number is written in pencil, so it's a completely different situation as they aren't locked in. They'll be able to get Patterson in the system before OTAs, evaluate him through August and then make a decision. I think they'll cut him or restructure if they don't think he'll be a contributor/credible depth on offense, although I guess there's a chance Bill falls in love with his ST ability if he views him as an elite piece on multiple ST groups, but certainly not as a kick returner only. If they ask him to restructure in late August he'll have less leverage than he'd have if the Raiders cut him and we approached him as a free agent right now, so the trade value in terms of the pick downgrade is worth the no risk free tryout with the option to buy. Just because we traded for him doesn't mean they are committed to him, in the same way they weren't afraid to cut Ealy, and in a similar way to Hill and Tobin being signed but not being roster locks. I'm also confident Cordarelle Patterson is not keeping them from signing Fleming or Waddle or another comparable player in the same way Dwayne Allen and Mike Gillislee aren't keeping them from signing those players. The team only signs players at values they like, and they can easily create cap space for those type of mid-tier deals. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 19, 2018 17:53:48 GMT -5
Patterson has no dead money attached to him if he doesn't make the team. The Patriots aren't risking much if he doesn't make the team. The swapping of the picks make no sense, but Bill does everything different than most teams. Most teams would have gotten more for Jimmy G. I thought I was going to give this post a like then you said the swapping of the picks makes no sense. It’s a small move back late in the draft for the rights to a player like Patterson. I don’t see how that makes no sense. They swapped picks for a guy they are most likely are going to cut and possibly resign for cheaper. They lost a few spots doing so. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 20, 2018 6:51:16 GMT -5
It's not like the Patriots had worse luck than the Eagles for injuries. Try losing a QB having an MVP like season, one of the top 3 LT in the NFL Jason Peters, Darren Sproles, starting LB Jordan Hicks, and their kicker for the season.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2018 8:31:24 GMT -5
Not sure how you can question our depth last year. We had a ton of injuries that hit our D hard. Our depth allowed us to still make the Superbowl. I have no Problem with paying core special team players. Hence why I didn't say anything about Bolden, King or Ebner being signed. That was 4.2 million of our cap space. Patterson is now another 3.25 million in cap space. That's over 25% of our available cap space for the year. If your looking to be depth how does that make sense? That's likely more than Hill and Tobin will make combined. Look at where we found Slater and Ebner. You can get great special teamers for cheap, in late rounds of the draft or even as undrafted guys. 3.25 million is top of the mark for special team players. They might be able to run a few plays a game for Patterson, trick type plays. I just don't see how he's a great fit as a WR. Brady likes WRs that run great routes. Are where they should be at all times. That is the exact opposite of Patterson. He's more of a throw it to me if I get open type player. He's just not a good WR, even though he has great size and speed. I wanted a bigger receiver, but this seems like a horrible fit. Yes after you pay him the 250,000 workout bonus you can cut him and only be on the hook for 250,000, not 3.25 million. Thing is by then most good free agents are already signed. For example you won't be able to sign an OT like Fleming then if Tobin sucks and we havd injuries. Losing the ability to use that 3.25 million now is a loss. What you can get with that money now is far greater than later during camp. The NFL keeps changing the rules so special teams matter less and less,yet Bill seems to be pouring more and more resources into them each year. It makes no sense. If less and less kick offs keep getting returned, doesn't the value of a good gunner go down? The players who missed the majority of the year were Hightower, McClellin, Valentine, Rivers, and Cyrus Jones on defense. It's bad injury luck but the Patriots have been hit harder with injuries in the past. They lost one elite player (Hightower), two rotation guys (McClellin & Valentine), a high upside but very raw rookie (Rivers), and a ST guy who at best would compete for slot duties and serve as depth at CB (Cyrus). We can add Ninkovich to the losses, but I have to question how much he could've helped when he suggested multiple times during the early part of the season he was open to returning but admitted the Patriots never reached out. Also, he retired in camp, and it couldn't have been a complete shock to the team, the guy was busted for PEDs the year before and his play declined. They also lost Langi after the car accident, but he wasn't making an impact before the injury. Then, in the playoffs Jonathan Jones got hurt, and while he was a key loss the other guys who played all year were mostly healthy for the playoffs, so this was the only injury they didn't have much time to plan and adapt to. The offensive talent they were missing during the playoffs (Edelman, Cannon, Mitchell, Garcia) vs. the defensive talent missing (Hightower, McClellin, Rivers, Valentine, and the Jones combo) was not nearly as significant as the play between the units would indicate. The difference is the offense had quality depth behind these guys while the defense had to rely on scrap heap/replacement level guys who weren't even here for the start of camp. How many contributors were there on offense who arrived after OTAs? I count Dorsett and zero other guys. Meanwhile, the defense had real roles for six of those players: Marsh (before being cut), Lee, Harrison, Bademosi, Harris, and Jean Francois during the year. They simply didn't have sufficient depth on defense at the LB or DE positions entering camp. The DT group looked good (Branch killed them) and the CB/safety groups looked very good, but there's no arguing the LB/DE groups were the clear weak spots on the depth chart entering camp. The Hightower injury was hardly a shock, and with his durability issues they needed more depth. It never made sense to carry both Roberts and Harris behind Hightower. While McClellin and Rivers could've helped make things better, the Van Noy/Roberts/Marquis Flowers group surpassed expectations, so this wasn't even the rock bottom scenario for the LBs. As far as the Patterson contract, Ebner is coming off a mid/late season ACL tear, is strictly a ST guy, and he received an actual commitment...if he doesn't return as the same guy they'll be on the hook for 1.8m dead money on the cap the next two seasons, and if he plays he'll still be a 2.2m and 2.8m cap hit the next two seasons. I believe King was going to be a restricted FA, so he's a bit different too. Patterson's cap number is written in pencil, so it's a completely different situation as they aren't locked in. They'll be able to get Patterson in the system before OTAs, evaluate him through August and then make a decision. I think they'll cut him or restructure if they don't think he'll be a contributor/credible depth on offense, although I guess there's a chance Bill falls in love with his ST ability if he views him as an elite piece on multiple ST groups, but certainly not as a kick returner only. If they ask him to restructure in late August he'll have less leverage than he'd have if the Raiders cut him and we approached him as a free agent right now, so the trade value in terms of the pick downgrade is worth the no risk free tryout with the option to buy. Just because we traded for him doesn't mean they are committed to him, in the same way they weren't afraid to cut Ealy, and in a similar way to Hill and Tobin being signed but not being roster locks. I'm also confident Cordarelle Patterson is not keeping them from signing Fleming or Waddle or another comparable player in the same way Dwayne Allen and Mike Gillislee aren't keeping them from signing those players. The team only signs players at values they like, and they can easily create cap space for those type of mid-tier deals. You said last years teams was one of the more shallow top heavy teams. Overall depth is depth. They were very deep, but they were deeper on offense overall, but not by a huge amount. Still losing Gronk hurts more than Edleman. WR was maybe the deepest position on the team, TE was horrible . The offensive loses were luckily in our deep areas, defense was hit in a weaker areas. Lost two starters for the year at LB. Nink up and retires, then Rivers goes down. I think they had a decent amount planned for Rivers. With his athleticism you can move him around. Then Elay busts and Marsh flames out. DE and LB become weak spots. You can blame them for Elay and Marsh, but not Hightower, Rivers, Nink and Shea. They lost 3 starters. Then Jones who was basically a starter as the top slot guy. Where did you hear Nink wanted to come back and they didn't want him? www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2017/11/08/would-rob-ninkovich-come-out-of-retirement-to-play-for-patriotsThat is him being interviewed in November. That is about as far away from coming back as you get. Wanted his health and thought the money was crap. My point being with all those injuries if Bill doesn't sit Butler I still think we win the Superbowl. That is a crazy deep team. They were that deep because they added a ton of legit talent last year. They also didn't trade guys like Butler a year early, kept Jimmy till the last second and resigned Hightower. Adding Cooks to an already deep WR core, adding two good RBs, getting Gilmore, Lawrence Guy, and a bunch of special team players. They were able to over come it for most of the year, till Bill for some reason went heavy 3-4 in the Superbowl. In a way I get it, we just didn't have the players to make it work. With no Jones and Butler, then a weak LB core they got exposed in space. I'll never understand the comments about Butler not being able to play slot CB because he hadn't played it all year. That's were he made his mark in his early years. He was so good they moved him outside when Revis left. Nevermind they had two weeks to get everyone ready. So if you want Quality depth not sure how you like getting Patterson. He's the second most expensive player they have acquired so far and he's a special teams player. Maybe your right and he takes a paycut, but you lost your ability to add quality players now. In August 95% of the free agents are already signed. Why not just draft a developmental WR that can return kicks and play special teams? This class is stacked at WR. Much rather spend our money on getting a LB, heck maybe two if you don't bring back Flowers. Then getting another DE. Add a guy like Robert Ayers and all of a sudden our DE position is a strength not a weakness. Plus getting two Vets gives you insurance in case one of them flames out. Heck maybe add another slot CB. Fill the positions that you can't easily fill during the year. Getting special team players is easy, getting DE depth isn't. Just like OT depth, almost impossible to get that during the season . |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2018 8:46:32 GMT -5
It's not like the Patriots had worse luck than the Eagles for injuries. Try losing a QB having an MVP like season, one of the top 3 LT in the NFL Jason Peters, Darren Sproles, starting LB Jordan Hicks, and their kicker for the season. Yea I just don't agree. Every team will have injuries, over all the Eagles were crazy healthy. If you look at the number of starters lost, the Patriots lost a lot more guys. Add in not playing Butler and it's not even close. The defense alone was without Butler, Jones, Hightower, Shea, Rivers, Valentine and Nink who retired before the year. The offense didn't have Edleman, Mitchell, Cannon, and Garcia. They then lost Cooks to a dirty hit early in the game. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 20, 2018 8:50:57 GMT -5
It's not like the Patriots had worse luck than the Eagles for injuries. Try losing a QB having an MVP like season, one of the top 3 LT in the NFL Jason Peters, Darren Sproles, starting LB Jordan Hicks, and their kicker for the season. Yea I just don't agree. Every team will have injuries, over all the Eagles were crazy healthy. If you look at the number of starters lost, the Patriots lost a lot more guys. Add in not playing Butler and it's not even close. The defense alone was without Butler, Jones, Hightower, Shea, Rivers, Valentine and Nink who retired before the year. The offense didn't have Edleman, Mitchell, Cannon, and Garcia. They then lost Cooks to a dirty hit early in the game. They lost their QB in week 13 and won the Super Bowl. On the way, their backup QB beat the #1 rated pass defense 38-7 in the NFC championship game with a 141 QB rating. Poor unlucky health for the Patriots. And losing Peters is at least as big of a deal as losing Gronk. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 20, 2018 10:19:55 GMT -5
I thought I was going to give this post a like then you said the swapping of the picks makes no sense. It’s a small move back late in the draft for the rights to a player like Patterson. I don’t see how that makes no sense. They swapped picks for a guy they are most likely are going to cut and possibly resign for cheaper. They lost a few spots doing so. And this makes no sense? Keeping a talent like that off the market for a trade back late in the draft seems to make sense to me. Maybe you don’t think it’s worth it but that’s different than not making any sense. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2018 16:47:02 GMT -5
Yea I just don't agree. Every team will have injuries, over all the Eagles were crazy healthy. If you look at the number of starters lost, the Patriots lost a lot more guys. Add in not playing Butler and it's not even close. The defense alone was without Butler, Jones, Hightower, Shea, Rivers, Valentine and Nink who retired before the year. The offense didn't have Edleman, Mitchell, Cannon, and Garcia. They then lost Cooks to a dirty hit early in the game. They lost their QB in week 13 and won the Super Bowl. On the way, their backup QB beat the #1 rated pass defense 38-7 in the NFC championship game with a 141 QB rating. Poor unlucky health for the Patriots. And losing Peters is at least as big of a deal as losing Gronk. If anything the play of Foles shows you that it was the Eagles overall talent that was important and not really Wentz. Almost nothing changed and I don't care what anyone says Foles is not an MVP type QB, not even close. Now take away Jeffrey or Ertz and that whole offense changes. Every team has players they can't afford to lose, even if they have great depth. The Eagles had great depth. They just didn't lose the players they couldn't afford to lose and the Patriots did. How in the world is losing Peters at least as big of a loss as losing Gronk? Gronk is most likely the biggest nightmare match-up in the whole league. Losing him kills our offense, we didn't have a Bennett this year. We have lost Solder before, not nearly the same impact as losing Gronk. You can bring in a TE to help your LT, have him chip the defender before he runs his route to help the LT. That's what we did when Solder went down. The Eagles got lucky and stayed relatively healthy, the Patriots were hit hard and still almost won because of how good Brady is. If it wasn't for Bill not playing Butler I still think we win, that is impressive given our injuries. The way I look at would Wentz and Peters if healthy made a bigger difference than if we had all our defenders? No way. Make both teams fully healthy and we kick their butts all day long. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2018 17:17:11 GMT -5
They swapped picks for a guy they are most likely are going to cut and possibly resign for cheaper. They lost a few spots doing so. And this makes no sense? Keeping a talent like that off the market for a trade back late in the draft seems to make sense to me. Maybe you don’t think it’s worth it but that’s different than not making any sense. Talent like that? Are we talking about the same player? We traded pick number 159 for pick 185. Per the draft chart that is going from 27.4 to 17 points or basically equal to pick number 201 in the 6th round. There is a good size gap in the value. Talent in most drafts starts to decline after the 5th round. So if they cut him we traded a 6th round pick for nothing. Not a huge deal, but for a special teams player? It's certainly not a slam dunk and ESPN gave it a C rating for a reason. He's a special teams player, not a premium position player like Elay or McCourty. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 20, 2018 19:27:31 GMT -5
Both Wentz and Foles made the throws or maybe you already put that out of your mind? To not give them credit for playing well is pretty insane, even for a blind homer.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 21, 2018 13:07:06 GMT -5
And this makes no sense? Keeping a talent like that off the market for a trade back late in the draft seems to make sense to me. Maybe you don’t think it’s worth it but that’s different than not making any sense. Talent like that? Are we talking about the same player? We traded pick number 159 for pick 185. Per the draft chart that is going from 27.4 to 17 points or basically equal to pick number 201 in the 6th round. There is a good size gap in the value. Talent in most drafts starts to decline after the 5th round. So if they cut him we traded a 6th round pick for nothing. Not a huge deal, but for a special teams player? It's certainly not a slam dunk and ESPN gave it a C rating for a reason. He's a special teams player, not a premium position player like Elay or McCourty. Maybe the report from yesterday was wrong, ESPN is saying we got pick number 210 from Oakland, not 185. If true we dropped from 159 to 210. Going from 27.4 value to a value of 7. That's equal to pick number 176, 2nd pick in the 6th round. That is a massive difference and I'm frankly shocked by this. I always loved the 5th round from a talent and value stand point. A very late 6th round comp pick is basically a 7th round pick. We didn't just drop down a few picks we basically moved down almost two rounds due to comp picks. Then we resign Slater to a two year deal. One of the bigger pluses of that trade was moving on from Slater. Allowing him to sign elsewhere, helping our comp pick formula. Adding him on a two year deal, with Ebner and King just increases the chances that we cut Patterson or don't draft the young WR from a stacked group we really need for long-term depth. My hate for this move only grows. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 21, 2018 13:08:28 GMT -5
Tobin's contract is like 800K, with a cap charge of 655k.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 21, 2018 13:24:05 GMT -5
Both Wentz and Foles made the throws or maybe you already put that out of your mind? To not give them credit for playing well is pretty insane, even for a blind homer. Giving them credit and acting like losing Wentz was some massive loss because he's an MVP caliber player is different. The point was exactly the opposite, Wentz couldn't have played better. Heck I would bet he plays worse as a Younger guy with less experience than Foles. Foles was that good. Perfect system, great coaching and a crap load of weapons that allowed them to make the QBs job as easy as it can be. The Browns should pay attention, because the Eagles just gave a 101 course how to set up a system to really help a young QB. I like Wentz and in time he might become an MVP type QB, but he's not even close to that now. All of our losses on D was a big reason why Foles looked so good though. Again have each team 100% and we beat them easily. Injuries killed the Patriots on D, while the Eagles were lucky. It happens, but I'm not being a blind homer for stating facts. Acting like injuries were equal is kinda crazy. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 22, 2018 7:46:07 GMT -5
OK, I guess losing your starting QB is just no big deal. Any team can overcome it.
Just because the Eagles did, doesn't mean the loss wasn't the biggest loss a team could ever go through. Let's see the Pats with Bryan Hoyer in the SB.
Wentz was being mentioned as an MVP candidate last year. He already was one.
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