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Post by 75tillnow on Mar 29, 2018 18:42:00 GMT -5
From what I can glean from the news Cora and the Sox brass are trying to save especially the pitchers in the early season. Hence Sale out after 90 and Kelly with a four run lead. Not a bad plan at all -- quite reasonable, especially given the Rays. But when Kelly clearly did not have it Cora was left without a plan in place. It happens, but another plan would've been to nail this opening game down, then see what happens tomorrow. Its on Kelly, and to a lesser extent Smith, yes, but Cora did not exactly make a lot of fans today. Bogie and Mookie did not exactly exemplify base running skills either. At the end of the season one will know how many games the Rays scored 6 runs or more, much less 6 in an inning. I would venture a guess this may be the only one (in an inning). But thats Basey-ball!
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 29, 2018 18:58:02 GMT -5
Welp this may sound ridiculous but I really hope that was one of the 60 games you lose no matter what, rather than one of the 42 games that determines the season.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 29, 2018 18:58:13 GMT -5
Season's over.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 29, 2018 19:33:15 GMT -5
So hey guys I missed the game how did it g... ![](http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/courage-the-cowardly-dog-gif-16.gif)
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 29, 2018 19:35:10 GMT -5
Farrell will become a manager of the marlins and take them to the WS.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 29, 2018 19:50:51 GMT -5
Probably. But I had no problem with Sale leaving after 91 pitches. It was the right move.You say that rather casually. Does taking Sale to 105 - 110 pitches in this game create a measurable detriment in some other part of the season? Is this knowable? If not, how can one claim pulling him is "right" with any measure of certainty? Preserving Chris Sale for October is more important than this one game. The Sox need to treat him with kid gloves. If they don't, the Sox perhaps win close to their 100 games but then you have a fried Sale pitching in October, which doesn't work too well. That's why I was fine with him being lifted. Especially considering that he didn't exactly ramp up given that he was hit by a liner in his previous start. I was fine with Cora's strategy there. As long as your bullpen doesn't totally suck you should be able to hold a 4 run lead.....which didn't happen because our bullpen totally sucked today and Cora made or didn't make some questionable moves thereafter.
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Post by swingingbunt on Mar 29, 2018 19:58:23 GMT -5
Well that sucked.
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Post by Canseco on Mar 29, 2018 20:16:52 GMT -5
That stunk, but mama said there'll be days like this. Learn from it and bounce back tomorrow.
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Post by patford on Mar 29, 2018 21:09:56 GMT -5
In his first game Cora has surpassed anything Farrell ever did wrong.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Mar 29, 2018 21:20:46 GMT -5
Hopefully Cora learns from this. Although there's no excuse for a pitcher to walk 3 in a inning. My question is why is Poyner on the team if he's not there to face lefties. Miller sucks vs lefties. The announcers said something about not wanting his debut in that kind of situation but I don't buy that. You have the advantage and then go with Smith if need be
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Mar 29, 2018 21:39:23 GMT -5
In his first game Cora has surpassed anything Farrell ever did wrong. Grady-esque
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Post by soxfando on Mar 29, 2018 21:40:54 GMT -5
Dombrowski’s weakness in Detroit was the bullpen too. He traded the farm to try and build a good one in Boston, but…
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 29, 2018 21:51:38 GMT -5
I'm hoping this moves Kelly out of any setup-like role. He received a great deal of luck last year but posted only a 4.07 xFIP - worse than Hembree. I hope he becomes the long man once more pitchers become healthy.
The move i keep seeing mentioned is to put Poyner in vs lefties, but his milb stats have reverse splits. Are we sure that is his role? Has he changed enough during the off-season to get lefties out?
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Post by telson13 on Mar 29, 2018 22:05:33 GMT -5
I'm hoping this moves Kelly out of any setup-like role. He received a great deal of luck last year but posted only a 4.07 xFIP - worse than Hembree. I hope he becomes the long man once more pitchers become healthy. The move i keep seeing mentioned is to put Poyner in vs lefties, but his milb stats have reverse splits. Are we sure that is his role? Has he changed enough during the off-season to get lefties out? Yeah, Kelly’s basically always been that 4+-FIP guy, slightly better in the ‘pen but not appreciably. He’s not someone I want to see in the 8th unless he has some drastic shift, be it new (effective) pitch, finding some funk or a big jump in command...idk. He’s like Daniel Cabrera or Eovaldi. Big velo that doesn’t fool anyone. Then again, Carson Smith didn’t look like an 8th inning guy today, either. Let’s hope someone steps up. At least Barnes looked solid. I think the ‘pen should be solid or even good, but the questions they *do* have certainly didn’t have positive answers today.
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Post by patford on Mar 29, 2018 22:13:27 GMT -5
There seems to be no rhyme or reason with Kelly. He has pitched great in pressure situations at times. One thing he is consistent at is when he starts off bad he is going to get worse. He is absolutely not a guy who digs himself out of jams. For me if he walks the lead-off hitter he is done for the day. I don't mind that Cora went with him. I can not fathom sticking with him more than two batters.
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Post by larrycook on Mar 29, 2018 23:36:30 GMT -5
On the plus side it is a joy to watch sale pitch. He is incredible!
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 29, 2018 23:45:31 GMT -5
Didn't take too long - already felt compelled to look at the potential free agent relievers to see trade candidates come July. If healthy I like Zach Britton. Kelvin Herrera will be popular come July.
Here's the list - anybody appealing? I'm thinking there are going to be some bad teams out there looking to make the kind of deal the Sox made for Reed last season.
Cody Allen (30) Tony Barnette (35) Joaquin Benoit (41) Brad Brach (33) Carter Capps (27) Santiago Casilla (38) Jesse Chavez (35) Randall Delgado (29) Jeurys Familia (29) Kelvin Herrera (29) Daniel Hudson (32) Jim Johnson (36) Nate Jones (33) — $555K club option Shawn Kelley (35) Joe Kelly (31) - NO THANKS!!! Craig Kimbrel (31) - IF ONLY WE CAN CLONE HIM!!! Brandon Kintzler (34) — $10MM club option/$5MM player option Tim Lincecum (35) Ryan Madson (38) Zach McAllister (31) Mark Melancon (34) — can opt out of remaining two years and $28MM Peter Moylan (40) Bud Norris (34) Seung Hwan Oh (36) — $2.5MM club/vesting option with a $250K buyout Adam Ottavino (33) David Phelps (32) A.J. Ramos (32) David Robertson (34) Fernando Rodney (42) — $4.25MM club option for the 2019 season Sergio Romo (36) Joakim Soria (35) — $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout Junichi Tazawa (33)- BOUND FOR CINCY TO BE OVERPITCHED BY FARRELL ONCE HIRED BY CIN Shawn Tolleson (31) Carlos Torres (36) Adam Warren (31) Blake Wood (33) Brad Ziegler (39) - ONLY GOOD AS A ROOGY AS WE FOUND OUT
Left-Handed Relievers
Jerry Blevins (35) Zach Britton (31) Jake Diekman (32) Sean Doolittle (32) — $6MM club option with a $500K buyout Zach Duke (36) J.P. Howell (35) Francisco Liriano (35) Boone Logan (34) — $4.125MM club option with a $625K buyout Andrew Miller (34) - HAVE A FEELING HE WON'T BE AVAILABLE Robbie Ross (30) - NAAHHHH Marc Rzepczynski (33) Tony Sipp (35) Justin Wilson (31)
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Post by nomar on Mar 29, 2018 23:54:30 GMT -5
Best way to build a bullpen is to be creative and take low cost risks with high upside. Signing big name FA or trading for well known relievers is almost always a disaster. The Sox bullpen isn’t even bad, it’s just not NYY’s. Every team’s bullpen blows games. We happened to blow our first one. Oh well. No reason to make any rash decisions.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Mar 30, 2018 1:12:01 GMT -5
We kind of knew the pen was the weak link. It may be epic weakness. Tragic weakness. When so many other teams have been bolstering their pen we rolled the dice bigtime. I like everything else about this team but we need to get at least 3-4 guys to step up in the pen.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Mar 30, 2018 1:55:20 GMT -5
Signing big name FA or trading for well known relievers is almost always a disaster. Not to pick you out but is this necessarily true anymore? Do the statistics support this? It seems we've found a way to identify the truly "elite" relievers and they've been pretty reliable. David Robertson was not good last year and Zach Britton wasn't either but both were obviously injured which can derail any pitchers season. Of the top ten relievers by salary is there a one you wouldn't want throwing for the Sox right now? Top fifteen? Twenty? (note: Going off of this site for top paid relievers, of which I don't count Phil Hughes, who was signed as a starter) I'm not saying they always come out sterling for the team but at this point I think we're at a spot where teams know what they're getting in to with relievers at what I'll call free agent age - or even younger. Kimbrel and Chapman were among the highest-profile relievers acquired recently and both have been worth above 2.5 wins per season since they were first acquired (by San Diego and NYY [first time] respectively). Hell, the Yankees were dragged to the playoffs last year by a boatload of home runs and a highly paid relief corps that won them game after game. I'm not saying the best way to build a playoff team is to build the most baller bullpen but it's not "almost always a disaster" anymore.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 2:25:31 GMT -5
It wouldn't have been a bad loss if the Yankees didn't win. I hope Stanton trips over himself running to first base in his next game.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 2:29:15 GMT -5
Every team’s bullpen blows games. We happened to blow our first one. Oh well. No reason to make any rash decisions. I don't know, getting rid of Joe Kelly doesn't seem that bad of a idea to me.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 2:38:36 GMT -5
Probably. But I had no problem with Sale leaving after 91 pitches. It was the right move.You say that rather casually. Does taking Sale to 105 - 110 pitches in this game create a measurable detriment in some other part of the season? Is this knowable? If not, how can one claim pulling him is "right" with any measure of certainty? Sale has to be managed more carefully. I was one of the lead people here last year in saying "push Sale as much as you can, this is why you traded for him." Sale ended up being mediocre because they did just that. Sale has worn done plenty of times with Chicago too. So managing him carefully is the right move to make. Save some bullets for October and not have him tired when that time comes. Sale is more durable than Pedro was, but Sale has to be managed with kid gloves like that, at least until the money is on the line. I might have to sing a different tune come September though.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 30, 2018 6:51:23 GMT -5
another great day for baseball. Apologies for whining a bit much yesterday (particularly to jimed). I can only rationally explain it as Opening Day being a more emotional game than one played in the middle of the season. I am sure the bullpen will have plenty of great moments this year.
Let's win today !!
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 30, 2018 7:31:50 GMT -5
Best way to build a bullpen is to be creative and take low cost risks with high upside. Signing big name FA or trading for well known relievers is almost always a disaster. The Sox bullpen isn’t even bad, it’s just not NYY’s. Every team’s bullpen blows games. We happened to blow our first one. Oh well. No reason to make any rash decisions. I don't think the Red Sox have to necessarily give up too much to acquire a short-term rental like they did with Reed last year or Ziegler the year before. Relievers are costly in deals if they have years are young, highly effective - think guy you want closing, and most importantly have years of control. In the Sox' case, they'd be seeking a rental, a guy about to become a free agent whose team doesn't want to pay the remainder of his contract. That's what the list is about. Nobody should be shocked if the bullpen has issues. We're relying on Carson Smith and possibly Thornburg and we don't know what we're going to get with either one of them. Smith might turn out just fine and it's just a blip, but if he doesn't and if somebody doesn't step forward the pen is going to continue to have these kinds of issues. The Sox would have most likely addressed this issue in the offseason but they really didn't want to exceed 237 million, which is understandable. Why pay 3 years $27 million and go over the cap when you can temporarily acquire a guy when you really need him for $5 million and stay under the cap? It does make sense. It just means there is going to be pains like yesterday's game. The Sox pen didn't blow more than a 3 run lead all year last year and was ridiculously fantastic in extra inning games. They've already managed to do this in all of 1 game. We'll see what happens going forward but I do suspect the Sox will be looking to find a late inning reliever/setup guy come July.
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