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4/5-4/8 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by p23w on Apr 9, 2018 9:58:51 GMT -5
After seeing JD in the field, and being witness to Blackmon's extension my thought is the signing was an overpay of the first magnitude. It is what it is. Soldier on Red Sox nation. Your first thought maybe should have been that Blackmon's offensive numbers are a creation of playing in thin air in Colorado? His career OPS at Colorado is .968 and his career OPS on the road is only .750. Do you think other teams don't know that? Given the way the market worked this past offseason maybe that's why he took what he can get? Obviously Blackmon has a lot more value on defense than Martinez does, but offensively it's not even close as to who the better hitter is. T Eventually JDM will hit like he has the last several years. Meanwhile his defense will continue to be lousy, but if Betts, Bradley, and Benintendi have more in the tank come October, which they haven't had the last couple of years, then it will all be worth it. The regular season is important but after the past two years, the only thing that really matters is kicking butt in October and having fresh players at that time of year can only help. Certainly can't be worse than they have been in October, and this team, if they stay relatively healthy, has what it takes to play in October and go deep into October. I think you have to look further than field affects and OPS when comparing these two. Over the past 4 years JD has averaged about 125 games and Blackmon about 150. Charlie's OBP is 17 points higher than JD's over their careers. The speed differential factor is considerable. The ONLY metric that Martinez has going for him over Blackmon is power. The 3+M per year over the next 5 years is Vasquez money. The canned responses by Martinez are almost as annoying as the canned questions he is prodded with. The guy is not leadership material. Ortiz was. Sale is. Blackmon rates higher than JD (IMHO) on the leadership scale. But hey. I'm not in the clubhouse, the guy (JD) is a key fixture on this team for 2018. It is what it is. ITA the real measure will be when the October yardstick is brought to bear. I'm not complaining about the Martinez contract, I just believe Blackmon is the better player and signed for considerable less money. Oh well. That and maybe this team could learn some baserunning tips from Charlie.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 9, 2018 10:30:50 GMT -5
Blackmon's contract maxes out at more money than Martinez's does, and one of those years just bought out his final year of arbitration.
Also, accusing Martinez of being "not leadership material" on a team that is 8-1 with two extra-inning and five one-run wins is something, especially in the season after he went bonkers as a mid-season acquisition for the Diamondbacks to push them into the playoffs. It's often hard to define what "leadership" is, but you seem to be defining it as "I like this player and not that one."
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 9, 2018 10:44:37 GMT -5
Your first thought maybe should have been that Blackmon's offensive numbers are a creation of playing in thin air in Colorado? His career OPS at Colorado is .968 and his career OPS on the road is only .750. Do you think other teams don't know that? Given the way the market worked this past offseason maybe that's why he took what he can get? Obviously Blackmon has a lot more value on defense than Martinez does, but offensively it's not even close as to who the better hitter is. T Eventually JDM will hit like he has the last several years. Meanwhile his defense will continue to be lousy, but if Betts, Bradley, and Benintendi have more in the tank come October, which they haven't had the last couple of years, then it will all be worth it. The regular season is important but after the past two years, the only thing that really matters is kicking butt in October and having fresh players at that time of year can only help. Certainly can't be worse than they have been in October, and this team, if they stay relatively healthy, has what it takes to play in October and go deep into October. I think you have to look further than field affects and OPS when comparing these two. Over the past 4 years JD has averaged about 125 games and Blackmon about 150. Charlie's OBP is 17 points higher than JD's over their careers. The speed differential factor is considerable. The ONLY metric that Martinez has going for him over Blackmon is power. The 3+M per year over the next 5 years is Vasquez money. The canned responses by Martinez are almost as annoying as the canned questions he is prodded with. The guy is not leadership material. Ortiz was. Sale is. Blackmon rates higher than JD (IMHO) on the leadership scale. But hey. I'm not in the clubhouse, the guy (JD) is a key fixture on this team for 2018. It is what it is. ITA the real measure will be when the October yardstick is brought to bear. I'm not complaining about the Martinez contract, I just believe Blackmon is the better player and signed for considerable less money. Oh well. That and maybe this team could learn some baserunning tips from Charlie. Don't you think that JD Martinez's OBP would be higher than Blackmon if he played in Colorado for half his games? Blackmon has JDM on speed and defense. Are you honestly telling me that if both had been free agents this offseason you would have signed Blackmon instead of JDM? Especially given the Sox' needs? They needed a legit power hitter, not another OF. The Sox got the guy this lineup needed. He hasn't really hit yet. He will.
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art
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Post by art on Apr 9, 2018 10:51:49 GMT -5
In view of Pomeranz's performance yesterday (6 BB in 4.1 innings) I hope they give him another rehab start before plugging him into the rotation.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2018 11:05:20 GMT -5
In view of Pomeranz's performance yesterday (6 BB in 4.1 innings) I hope they give him another rehab start before plugging him into the rotation. Plus how well Johnson pitched.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 9, 2018 12:08:32 GMT -5
Are we really comparing contracts of someone who took a discount to stay with the home team to a player who was a free agent? Next, you're gonna tell me advanced stats are a bunch of hogwash. #sacbuntmore
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 9, 2018 12:21:19 GMT -5
I feel like off days are never good for the gameday threads...
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 9, 2018 12:43:40 GMT -5
I feel like off days are never good for the gameday threads... Especially when one of your best players’ health is hanging in the balance.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 9, 2018 12:51:20 GMT -5
I feel like off days are never good for the gameday threads... Especially when one of your best players’ health is hanging in the balance. This is the longest I've waited for even a peep regarding an injury in any sport (in the days of the internet anyway).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 9, 2018 12:56:17 GMT -5
Especially when one of your best players’ health is hanging in the balance. This is the longest I've waited for even a peep regarding an injury in any sport (in the days of the internet anyway). It's not a broken bone. We would have found that out already. It's got to be a sprained ankle or a ligament thing going on.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Apr 9, 2018 13:24:45 GMT -5
Especially when one of your best players’ health is hanging in the balance. This is the longest I've waited for even a peep regarding an injury in any sport (in the days of the internet anyway). Latest update I can find:
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 9, 2018 13:31:31 GMT -5
Also, accusing Martinez of being "not leadership material" on a team that is 8-1 with two extra-inning and five one-run wins is something, especially in the season after he went bonkers as a mid-season acquisition for the Diamondbacks to push them into the playoffs. It's often hard to define what "leadership" is, but you seem to be defining it as "I like this player and not that one." Not to mention accusing Martinez of that after a game in which they scored 6 runs in the bottom of the 8th to win by one run. I mean goddamn, I did not watch the game since I was watching the Masters, but when I came here to check how it went I was sure there was no way the Red Sox won. I know some negativity is inevitable, but geez.
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patford
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Post by patford on Apr 9, 2018 14:05:42 GMT -5
This is the longest I've waited for even a peep regarding an injury in any sport (in the days of the internet anyway). Latest update I can find: If that is the case they should just place him on the 10 day DL. No way they should have him trying to play through this and risk further injury or end up with a nagging thing which haunts him for months.
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Post by soxfando on Apr 9, 2018 14:11:46 GMT -5
Latest update I can find: If that is the case they should just place him on the 10 day DL. No way they should risk him trying to play through this and risk further injury or end up with a nagging thing which haunts him for months. Hope they bring up Lin for short
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Post by p23w on Apr 9, 2018 14:12:50 GMT -5
Blackmon's contract maxes out at more money than Martinez's does, and one of those years just bought out his final year of arbitration. Also, accusing Martinez of being "not leadership material" on a team that is 8-1 with two extra-inning and five one-run wins is something, especially in the season after he went bonkers as a mid-season acquisition for the Diamondbacks to push them into the playoffs. It's often hard to define what "leadership" is, but you seem to be defining it as "I like this player and not that one." My understanding was 95/5 versus 110/5. Blackmon is also a year older than JD. Buying out an arb year and having an opt out (after 2 years @ 25M) doesn't seem more favorable to me. I used the caveat that I'm not in the clubhouse dugout to get a direct read on his leadership skills, but I'll stick with my limited observations and sound bites (both while in AZ and in Boston) that this guy is not leadership material. He is what he is. I hope he hits as advertised. Manny hit, played poor defense and was not leadership material.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 9, 2018 14:15:13 GMT -5
This is the longest I've waited for even a peep regarding an injury in any sport (in the days of the internet anyway). It's not a broken bone. We would have found that out already. It's got to be a sprained ankle or a ligament thing going on. It looked like the bone that sticks out from the ankle rubbed pretty hard on the cement or wood top step of the dugout. It's like they should re-make that with something more forgiving even though I've never seen it happen before.
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patford
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Post by patford on Apr 9, 2018 14:21:11 GMT -5
It's not a broken bone. We would have found that out already. It's got to be a sprained ankle or a ligament thing going on. It looked like the bone that sticks out from the ankle rubbed pretty hard on the cement or wood top step of the dugout. It's like they should re-make that with something more forgiving even though I've never seen it happen before. Good eye. It does look like he clipped the lip pretty hard. Maybe a bone bruise.
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Post by p23w on Apr 9, 2018 14:30:40 GMT -5
I think you have to look further than field affects and OPS when comparing these two. Over the past 4 years JD has averaged about 125 games and Blackmon about 150. Charlie's OBP is 17 points higher than JD's over their careers. The speed differential factor is considerable. The ONLY metric that Martinez has going for him over Blackmon is power. The 3+M per year over the next 5 years is Vasquez money. The canned responses by Martinez are almost as annoying as the canned questions he is prodded with. The guy is not leadership material. Ortiz was. Sale is. Blackmon rates higher than JD (IMHO) on the leadership scale. But hey. I'm not in the clubhouse, the guy (JD) is a key fixture on this team for 2018. It is what it is. ITA the real measure will be when the October yardstick is brought to bear. I'm not complaining about the Martinez contract, I just believe Blackmon is the better player and signed for considerable less money. Oh well. That and maybe this team could learn some baserunning tips from Charlie. Don't you think that JD Martinez's OBP would be higher than Blackmon if he played in Colorado for half his games? Blackmon has JDM on speed and defense. Are you honestly telling me that if both had been free agents this offseason you would have signed Blackmon instead of JDM? Especially given the Sox' needs? They needed a legit power hitter, not another OF. The Sox got the guy this lineup needed. He hasn't really hit yet. He will. I don't think park affect has a correlation to OPB, so no, I disagree. For me there would be no question. Given the contracts that were given, no question. You say the Sox needed a power hitter. Blackmon hit 37 bombs last year. If you think the 25 games per year over the last four years is meaningless or has no value, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Look. I wish the best for JD as a Red Sox. I would have preferred a power RHSP with a track record against NY and Hstn. I'm not part of the ownership braintrust. They went the way of a RHP/bopper DH. If Blackmon were available I would have lobbied for him over the DH. It is what it is. A lot can happen over 162 games. To the Red Sox, the Yankees and the Astro's.
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 9, 2018 14:31:18 GMT -5
You can't blame Martinez for Xander getting hurt like that, that was a freak injury. Blaming him for that happening is a little bit childish, and just plane shows maybe a dislike for the man However, you can blame JD for never backing up the center fielder on balls hit in the gap, for having a terrible arm, for missing cutoff men left and right, as well as throws to bases for misjudging balls near the wall, and for not only being slow but taking bad routes period, on top of all that he insists on being out in the field which moves Andrew to Center. As much as I love Benintendi, and think hes an average center fielder, the difference between his and Jackie's defense shows in my opinion quite obviously. I'm not going to touch the first part about about Martinez and Xander because it's a complete contradiction after you explained Martinez's deficiency issues in the field, and I've already touched on that. However Martinez in LF turns the awesome outfield defense into a weakness. Benintendi is a *below* average CF. Martinez is basically Hanley Ramirez in LF. Mookie in RF is the only positive in this alignment. How's it contradictory ready to absolve JD of a freak Xander Bogaerts injury, while also pointing out the obvious defensive deficiencies in JD's game? People are able to think two things at once.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 9, 2018 14:39:38 GMT -5
It's not a broken bone. We would have found that out already. It's got to be a sprained ankle or a ligament thing going on. It looked like the bone that sticks out from the ankle rubbed pretty hard on the cement or wood top step of the dugout. It's like they should re-make that with something more forgiving even though I've never seen it happen before. He could have turned the ankle when he landed in the Rays dugout. They should put padding around that whole dugout area.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 9, 2018 14:41:22 GMT -5
Don't you think that JD Martinez's OBP would be higher than Blackmon if he played in Colorado for half his games? Blackmon has JDM on speed and defense. Are you honestly telling me that if both had been free agents this offseason you would have signed Blackmon instead of JDM? Especially given the Sox' needs? They needed a legit power hitter, not another OF. The Sox got the guy this lineup needed. He hasn't really hit yet. He will. I don't think park affect has a correlation to OPB, so no, I disagree. For me there would be no question. Given the contracts that were given, no question. You say the Sox needed a power hitter. Blackmon hit 37 bombs last year. If you think the 25 games per year over the last four years is meaningless or has no value, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Look. I wish the best for JD as a Red Sox. I would have preferred a power RHSP with a track record against NY and Hstn. I'm not part of the ownership braintrust. They went the way of a RHP/bopper DH. If Blackmon were available I would have lobbied for him over the DH. It is what it is. A lot can happen over 162 games. To the Red Sox, the Yankees and the Astro's. We'll agree to disagree on preference. However OBP is most certainly affected by ballpark factors. It's easier to hit for average in certain ballparks or thin air than it is elsewhere and batting average is the key component in OBP so Blackmon certainly got a boost by playing half his games in thin air. Likewise he doesn't bop 37 homers if he played half his games elsewhere. That said I'm sure JDM got a boost playing in Arizona last summer. Take a look at past batting champions. You'll notice there are a lot of Red Sox players showing up and in the short history of the Rockies they've had a lot of batting champs from Galarragas, Walker, Helton, Mahieu, and Morneau. Most of those guys would never win a batting title playing elsewhere. Playing in Colorado not only boosts power totals but it helps batting averages as well, which inflates OBPs.
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patford
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Post by patford on Apr 9, 2018 14:44:20 GMT -5
It looked like the bone that sticks out from the ankle rubbed pretty hard on the cement or wood top step of the dugout. It's like they should re-make that with something more forgiving even though I've never seen it happen before. He could have turned the ankle when he landed in the Rays dugout. They should put padding around that whole dugout area. Looking a the way he lands it does not look like he buckles at any point. Looks like he stuck the landing so to speak. I'm thinking jimed is right and he smacked hard against the concrete lip of the dugout.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 9, 2018 14:53:31 GMT -5
Don't you think that JD Martinez's OBP would be higher than Blackmon if he played in Colorado for half his games? Blackmon has JDM on speed and defense. Are you honestly telling me that if both had been free agents this offseason you would have signed Blackmon instead of JDM? Especially given the Sox' needs? They needed a legit power hitter, not another OF. The Sox got the guy this lineup needed. He hasn't really hit yet. He will. I don't think park affect has a correlation to OPB, so no, I disagree.
Of course there is. There are more hits when the ball is hit harder in Colorado. Pitchers may be more likely to walk someone who is a power threat in Colorado.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Apr 9, 2018 15:46:22 GMT -5
I hope it's precaution more than anything
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Apr 9, 2018 15:50:40 GMT -5
I hope they call Tzu-Wei Lin to play, he's a far superior fielder than Holt but I doubt it ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png)
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