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5/3-5/6 Red Sox @ Rangers Series Thread
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Post by 75tillnow on May 5, 2018 22:28:37 GMT -5
Yanks: 14-1 in their last 15 STILL IN SECOND PLACE
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 22:29:41 GMT -5
Yanks: 14-1 in their last 15 STILL IN SECOND PLACE For as much crap as the Red Sox are getting from ridiculous critics, the fact that they're still in first place is a f'ing miracle because of how good they've been.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 5, 2018 22:30:11 GMT -5
Congrats to the greatest Red Sox team ever. They just blew a 7.5 game lead in 2 weeks. Wait, what happened that I haven't realized yet? Please write a 1000 word essay about how they're lucky to have won and the Yankees are far superior in every way. Dude, they have a razor thin 1 game lead that I doubt will hold up. It was once a 7.5 game lead. It's not as much an indictment of the Red Sox as much as it's the frustration that the MFYs are every bit as damn good as the Red Sox, and at a time where the Sox are set up at their best to win, they might wind up in the damn wild card game, which is a crapshoot I'd hate to see them in. It's not like the Sox get to play a team like the Twinkies who melt every time they play them. Honestly, like Pedro here, I can't understand why you can't even acknowledge the 50-50 possibility of this.
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Post by telson13 on May 5, 2018 22:30:14 GMT -5
I never overreact to hot or cold streaks. They're always expected in baseball and shouldn't be overreacted to. Yet they continue to win despite you being skeptical. I think the point is more that the Yankees, like the Sox, are going to have long hot stretches, because both are very good teams. Along with Houston, they’re probably the three best teams in baseball. NY was 8-9...that’s not their true talent level any more than the Sox’s soon-to-be 7-7 since going 17-2 is. He’s not skeptical that NY is good, he’s skeptical that they’re going to continue winning 90% of their games the way they have the past two weeks.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 22:31:32 GMT -5
No one is saying the Yankees are *far superior.* They are worried that they could be a tad bit better, hence why they want to see improvements to the roster. I don't know what's so hard to get about that. True that! They just have to be very careful how they go about that. That's where Dombrowski's talent assessment needs to come in - which prospects are alright to deal, how much should they be willing to give up, etc. They're in a precarious situation with the farm. Absolutely Champs. It doesn't mean anything to our fandom. Heck, I love when Kelly comes and proves me wrong and actually finds his control. I like that the bullpen could be a strength. Still doesn't take away what the Yankees are doing and what kind of a force they are too.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 22:31:54 GMT -5
Wait, what happened that I haven't realized yet? Please write a 1000 word essay about how they're lucky to have won and the Yankees are far superior in every way. Dude, they have a razor thin 1 game lead that I doubt will hold up. It was once a 7.5 game lead. It's not as much an indictment of the Red Sox as much as it's the frustration that the MFYs are every bit as damn good as the Red Sox, and at a time where the Sox are set up at their best to win, they might wind up in the damn wild card game, which is a crapshoot I'd hate to see them in. It's not like the Sox get to play a team like the Twinkies who melt every time they play them. Honestly, like Pedro here, I can't understand why you can't even acknowledge the 50-50 possibility of this. I don't sit here crying to myself about how good the Yankees are. I'm confident in the Red Sox. They will have almost the same chance to win the WS as the Yankees will every year for a few years. There's no reason to panic or be stupid.
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Post by telson13 on May 5, 2018 22:32:17 GMT -5
Yanks: 14-1 in their last 15 STILL IN SECOND PLACE Thank you. I’m glad I’m not the only one.
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Post by p23w on May 5, 2018 22:32:31 GMT -5
The Yankees have the best record in baseball.... against LHPitching. Four of the five starters for the Red Sox are LHPitchers. It's not rocket science to project what this team needs.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 5, 2018 22:32:56 GMT -5
And, yes, the Sox deserve a lot of credit for pulling this game out of the fire.
Congrats to Kimbrel on his 300th career save.
Can't help but wonder as time goes on and JBJ struggles will we see more of Moreland at 1b, JDM in LF, Benintendi in CF, and Hanley DHing.
It improves the lineup but makes the OF defense kind of shaky in two spots, although swapping out Ramirez for Moreland at 1b is not a bad thing.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 22:34:54 GMT -5
Yet they continue to win despite you being skeptical. I think the point is more that the Yankees, like the Sox, are going to have long hot stretches, because both are very good teams. Along with Houston, they’re probably the three best teams in baseball. NY was 8-9...that’s not their true talent level any more than the Sox’s soon-to-be 7-7 since going 17-2 is. He’s not skeptical that NY is good, he’s skeptical that they’re going to continue winning 90% of their games the way they have the past two weeks. He also fails to acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees could win the division Telson, which is complete homerism.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 22:36:01 GMT -5
Yanks: 14-1 in their last 15 STILL IN SECOND PLACE That for now is a beautiful thing.
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Post by braziliansox on May 5, 2018 22:37:50 GMT -5
Yanks: 14-1 in their last 15 STILL IN SECOND PLACE For as much crap as the Red Sox are getting from ridiculous critics, the fact that they're still in first place is a f'ing miracle because of how good they've been. It really is a joke, everyone is focusing on the 1 game lead, but The Sox have the best record in the majors, is it their fault that the 2nd best record happens to be in the same division?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 5, 2018 22:39:48 GMT -5
Dude, they have a razor thin 1 game lead that I doubt will hold up. It was once a 7.5 game lead. It's not as much an indictment of the Red Sox as much as it's the frustration that the MFYs are every bit as damn good as the Red Sox, and at a time where the Sox are set up at their best to win, they might wind up in the damn wild card game, which is a crapshoot I'd hate to see them in. It's not like the Sox get to play a team like the Twinkies who melt every time they play them. Honestly, like Pedro here, I can't understand why you can't even acknowledge the 50-50 possibility of this. I don't sit here crying to myself about how good the Yankees are. I'm confident in the Red Sox. They will have almost the same chance to win the WS as the Yankees will every year for a few years. There's no reason to panic or be stupid. Nobody is "crying". Some of us acknowledge that the Yankees are damn good, too, whether we like it or not. The Sox have about the same chance as the Yankees do, which kind of sucks, because the hope was that as the Sox are at what I think is there zenith in competing, the damn Yankees, who are just kind of getting started, are right there, too - with a longer period of time to sustain their excellence so the pressure on them to win is a little less severe than the Sox given what the Sox have done to put themselves in this position. That said, I agree that there's no reason to make a stupid shortsighted deal to improve their odds - not of winning the Series, but of avoiding that damn Wild Card Game. Yeah the game would be at Fenway, but I'm not comfortable seeing the Sox face say an Ohtani (yeah I know they hit him last time, but he wasn't physically right then), or facing a Paxton from Seattle who gives them trouble, or facing Sanchez from Toronto. Just too many variables in a 1 game playoff. The Sox need to avoid that game, but they have to thread the needle and find a way to improve themselves without giving it all away - sort of like the Addison Reed deal they made last year where they made the deal helping themselves without bankrupting the farm of any major impact.
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Post by telson13 on May 5, 2018 22:46:48 GMT -5
True that! They just have to be very careful how they go about that. That's where Dombrowski's talent assessment needs to come in - which prospects are alright to deal, how much should they be willing to give up, etc. They're in a precarious situation with the farm. Absolutely Champs. It doesn't mean anything to our fandom. Heck, I love when Kelly comes and proves me wrong and actually finds his control. I like that the bullpen could be a strength. Still doesn't take away what the Yankees are doing and what kind of a force they are too. Seriously...what exactly do you propose that this team needs right now? And how exactly are they going to get it? There’s no room for an OF, unless you trade JBJ, when his value is terrible. 3b is taken. SS is taken. Pedroia is coming back at 2b, so that’s taken. 1b? Moreland and Hanley have been pretty ridiculous...obviously Moreland will cool off, but what if he’s in the midst of a career year? Do you really think you can upgrade one or both of them? That’s a 3-WAR player. Easier said than done. SP? Uh-uh; not to mention internal options like Velazquez and Beeks. RP? Kelly’s been outstanding...despite an unsustainably crappy strand rate before tonight. Barnes has been excellent. Velazquez has been terrific as a swingman. Kimbrel is Kimbrel. Carson Smith is improving. Thornburg is on the horizon and has been devastating in AAA. Hembree has been far better than you give him credit for. I mean, what do they do, try to get Britton? The guy might be toast. They could just as easily pick up someone like they did Reed near the deadline, in a salary dump. I just don’t get where, exactly, on this team you (or others) propose to make a *significant, high-certainty, worthwhile* jump in talent.
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Post by wildsox on May 5, 2018 22:49:08 GMT -5
Benintendi starting to hit would be a huge boost for this team.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 5, 2018 22:54:05 GMT -5
How about that Joe Kelly huh? Thornburg coming soon, Poyner is a straight baller, Barnes is making strides, if just Carson Smith joins the party...Oh boy! Jalen Christopher Beeks is waiting in the wings too. I like this team chances.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 22:55:11 GMT -5
Absolutely Champs. It doesn't mean anything to our fandom. Heck, I love when Kelly comes and proves me wrong and actually finds his control. I like that the bullpen could be a strength. Still doesn't take away what the Yankees are doing and what kind of a force they are too. Seriously...what exactly do you propose that this team needs right now? And how exactly are they going to get it? There’s no room for an OF, unless you trade JBJ, when his value is terrible. 3b is taken. SS is taken. Pedroia is coming back at 2b, so that’s taken. 1b? Moreland and Hanley have been pretty ridiculous...obviously Moreland will cool off, but what if he’s in the midst of a career year? Do you really think you can upgrade one or both of them? That’s a 3-WAR player. Easier said than done. SP? Uh-uh; not to mention internal options like Velazquez and Beeks. RP? Kelly’s been outstanding...despite an unsustainably crappy strand rate before tonight. Barnes has been excellent. Velazquez has been terrific as a swingman. Kimbrel is Kimbrel. Carson Smith is improving. Thornburg is on the horizon and has been devastating in AAA. Hembree has been far better than you give him credit for. I mean, what do they do, try to get Britton? The guy might be toast. They could just as easily pick up someone like they did Reed near the deadline, in a salary dump. I just don’t get where, exactly, on this team you (or others) propose to make a *significant, high-certainty, worthwhile* jump in talent. Telson, I made a simple proposal at the trade thread about JT Realmuto who is on pace for a 4-4.5 bWAR season. That would be an extra 2-3 bWAR improvement over the Leon/Vazquez tandem this year. Other than that, I love how the bullpen is coming together. Thornburg has borderline got me giddy, hence why I have his avatar up now. I wouldn't do anything outside of that.
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Post by telson13 on May 5, 2018 22:55:33 GMT -5
I think the point is more that the Yankees, like the Sox, are going to have long hot stretches, because both are very good teams. Along with Houston, they’re probably the three best teams in baseball. NY was 8-9...that’s not their true talent level any more than the Sox’s soon-to-be 7-7 since going 17-2 is. He’s not skeptical that NY is good, he’s skeptical that they’re going to continue winning 90% of their games the way they have the past two weeks. He also fails to acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees could win the division Telson, which is complete homerism. No, he’s just not doing a chicken little. The risk of that has been clear from the start of the season. If he’s not outright stating it, I think it’s less obstinance than it is rhetorical. Like Jimed, I can acknowledge that NY is a very good team without saying the Sox need to make a reactionary move to a NY hot streak. Streaks happen. In this case, I think the Sox need to stay the course and trust their roster. Come late July, maybe the calculus is different. But it’s way too early imo. We all knew this was gonna be a dogfight. Maybe the Sox’s ultra-hot start made us feel irrationally good, but I think NY’s recent run has you and champs feeling irrationally antsy. I love you guys, but don’t sweat it yet. There’s a ton of baseball left and the Sox are 24-9. And that’s with JBJ, Beni, Nunez, and Vasquez/Leon struggling, several mightily.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 22:59:24 GMT -5
He also fails to acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees could win the division Telson, which is complete homerism. No, he’s just not doing a chicken little. The risk of that has been clear from the start of the season. If he’s not outright stating it, I think it’s less obstinance than it is rhetorical. Like Jimed, I can acknowledge that NY is a very good team without saying the Sox need to make a reactionary move to a NY hot streak. Streaks happen. In this case, I think the Sox need to stay the course and trust their roster. Come late July, maybe the calculus is different. But it’s way too early imo. We all knew this was gonna be a dogfight. Maybe the Sox’s ultra-hot start made us feel irrationally good, but I think NY’s recent run has you and champs feeling irrationally antsy. I love you guys, but don’t sweat it yet. There’s a ton of baseball left and the Sox are 24-9. And that’s with JBJ, Beni, Nunez, and Vasquez/Leon struggling, several mightily. The Sox don't *need* to do anything, but suggesting improvements isn't stupid either (like with Realmuto as I mentioned earlier), who is one of the best catchers in the league. They risk losing the division if they don't do anything, which is crazy to think about because the Sox are so good. It's mind boggling to me, but it's the reality.
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Post by telson13 on May 5, 2018 23:00:01 GMT -5
Seriously...what exactly do you propose that this team needs right now? And how exactly are they going to get it? There’s no room for an OF, unless you trade JBJ, when his value is terrible. 3b is taken. SS is taken. Pedroia is coming back at 2b, so that’s taken. 1b? Moreland and Hanley have been pretty ridiculous...obviously Moreland will cool off, but what if he’s in the midst of a career year? Do you really think you can upgrade one or both of them? That’s a 3-WAR player. Easier said than done. SP? Uh-uh; not to mention internal options like Velazquez and Beeks. RP? Kelly’s been outstanding...despite an unsustainably crappy strand rate before tonight. Barnes has been excellent. Velazquez has been terrific as a swingman. Kimbrel is Kimbrel. Carson Smith is improving. Thornburg is on the horizon and has been devastating in AAA. Hembree has been far better than you give him credit for. I mean, what do they do, try to get Britton? The guy might be toast. They could just as easily pick up someone like they did Reed near the deadline, in a salary dump. I just don’t get where, exactly, on this team you (or others) propose to make a *significant, high-certainty, worthwhile* jump in talent. Telson, I made a simple proposal at the trade thread about JT Realmuto who is on pace for a 4-4.5 bWAR season. That would be an extra 2-3 bWAR improvement over the Leon/Vazquez tandem this year. Other than that, I love how the bullpen is coming together. Thornburg has borderline got me giddy, hence why I have his avatar up now. I wouldn't do anything outside of that. Do you think Jeter would help the Sox? I mean, C is probably the only upgradable spot, but idk, I’ll have to check the thread. I just don’t know how they’ll swing that and stay relevant in 3 years. Their farm is atrocious right now, and has only gotten uglier-looking as the season’s gone on. But yeah, if they could swing Realmuto without looping off the top of the farm completely, it would be a terrific get. Edit: *lopping* off. Stupid autocorrect
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 23:05:36 GMT -5
Telson, I made a simple proposal at the trade thread about JT Realmuto who is on pace for a 4-4.5 bWAR season. That would be an extra 2-3 bWAR improvement over the Leon/Vazquez tandem this year. Other than that, I love how the bullpen is coming together. Thornburg has borderline got me giddy, hence why I have his avatar up now. I wouldn't do anything outside of that. Do you think Jeter would help the Sox? I mean, C is probably the only upgradable spot, but idk, I’ll have to check the thread. I just don’t know how they’ll swing that and stay relevant in 3 years. Their farm is atrocious right now, and has only gotten uglier-looking as the season’s gone on. But yeah, if they could swing Realmuto without looping off the top of the farm completely, it would be a terrific get. Edit: *lopping* off. Stupid autocorrect Lol, yeah I didn't consider the Jeter aspect, but I think he'd trade with the Sox. It's not like he's a Yankee anymore. It'd be negligible if he didn't do the best thing for the Marlins because he has his former team in the back of his head. I think Realmuto would be awesome here. 42 career pull percentage as a right hander in Fenway Park and he's been getting better every year. He seems like he could be the last missing piece to keep up in the division.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 5, 2018 23:08:43 GMT -5
He also fails to acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees could win the division Telson, which is complete homerism. No, he’s just not doing a chicken little. The risk of that has been clear from the start of the season. If he’s not outright stating it, I think it’s less obstinance than it is rhetorical. Like Jimed, I can acknowledge that NY is a very good team without saying the Sox need to make a reactionary move to a NY hot streak. Streaks happen. In this case, I think the Sox need to stay the course and trust their roster. Come late July, maybe the calculus is different. But it’s way too early imo. We all knew this was gonna be a dogfight. Maybe the Sox’s ultra-hot start made us feel irrationally good, but I think NY’s recent run has you and champs feeling irrationally antsy. I love you guys, but don’t sweat it yet. There’s a ton of baseball left and the Sox are 24-9. And that’s with JBJ, Beni, Nunez, and Vasquez/Leon struggling, several mightily. Thanks Telson. Back at ya. I don't think I'm antsy as much as I was a bit disappointed that yup the MFYs are as good as I thought they'd be. I was kind of hoping, when the Sox were 17-2 and the Yanks were stumbling around, that maybe, just maybe the Yankees were like a 90 win team, that I had overestimated them, and the Sox would have some room to breathe or at least that big lead would taken them into the summer. Instead it's almost all gone and those MFYs could dump the Sox out of 1st if the Sox aren't at their best this upcoming week. I was hoping for a waltz to the top rather than the all-out struggle that I expected to see. But just so we're being accurate here - I advocated for a move to help the pen when the Sox were 17-2 and I still do, although the only thing that has really changed for me is my reluctance/refusal to allow Beeks to be part of such a deal. I do think ultimately the Sox will need to be able to have that second closer type that will free Kimbrel up a bit. I'm rooting for Joe Kelly because of the way he whacked a Yankee, but when push comes to shove I don't trust him or Barnes - and they have been pitching well. I'm hoping Smith and Thornburg return to form - but that's not a given either. If they do it certainly lessens the need for a reliever, although I'd like to see a late inning lefty as well - and I like Britton - although you make a valid point - I don't know how good he'll be at this point, but I wouldn't want to deal away a Poyner, who I've always liked, and now Beeks - who has won me over. And if they can finagle it somehow on the roster it wouldn't shock me to see Beeks become a late inning high leverage threat later in the season. And then he could be a very viable candidate to take Pomeranz' spot next season.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 5, 2018 23:31:20 GMT -5
Wait, what happened that I haven't realized yet? Please write a 1000 word essay about how they're lucky to have won and the Yankees are far superior in every way. Dude, they have a razor thin 1 game lead that I doubt will hold up. It was once a 7.5 game lead. It's not as much an indictment of the Red Sox as much as it's the frustration that the MFYs are every bit as damn good as the Red Sox, and at a time where the Sox are set up at their best to win, they might wind up in the damn wild card game, which is a crapshoot I'd hate to see them in. It's not like the Sox get to play a team like the Twinkies who melt every time they play them. Honestly, like Pedro here, I can't understand why you can't even acknowledge the 50-50 possibility of this. This is about as short sighted as it gets. The Sox started off hot as blazes and many seemed to have convinced themselves that was the end of the story. The game is nothing but streaks, it always has been. So NY comes back to go 15-1. So what? Did you think they were going to roll over and urinate on themselves because Boston had gotten an early drop on them? Dig yourself a hole and jump in if you're going to spread negative vibes at the drop of a hat. It's a season, and it's barely started. That's what makes it so enjoyable, the back and forth, the big games. It's never easy and it shouldn't be if you want real baseball.
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Post by telson13 on May 5, 2018 23:32:51 GMT -5
No, he’s just not doing a chicken little. The risk of that has been clear from the start of the season. If he’s not outright stating it, I think it’s less obstinance than it is rhetorical. Like Jimed, I can acknowledge that NY is a very good team without saying the Sox need to make a reactionary move to a NY hot streak. Streaks happen. In this case, I think the Sox need to stay the course and trust their roster. Come late July, maybe the calculus is different. But it’s way too early imo. We all knew this was gonna be a dogfight. Maybe the Sox’s ultra-hot start made us feel irrationally good, but I think NY’s recent run has you and champs feeling irrationally antsy. I love you guys, but don’t sweat it yet. There’s a ton of baseball left and the Sox are 24-9. And that’s with JBJ, Beni, Nunez, and Vasquez/Leon struggling, several mightily. Thanks Telson. Back at ya. I don't think I'm antsy as much as I was a bit disappointed that yup the MFYs are as good as I thought they'd be. I was kind of hoping, when the Sox were 17-2 and the Yanks were stumbling around, that maybe, just maybe the Yankees were like a 90 win team, that I had overestimated them, and the Sox would have some room to breathe or at least that big lead would taken them into the summer. Instead it's almost all gone and those MFYs could dump the Sox out of 1st if the Sox aren't at their best this upcoming week. I was hoping for a waltz to the top rather than the all-out struggle that I expected to see. But just so we're being accurate here - I advocated for a move to help the pen when the Sox were 17-2 and I still do, although the only thing that has really changed for me is my reluctance/refusal to allow Beeks to be part of such a deal. I do think ultimately the Sox will need to be able to have that second closer type that will free Kimbrel up a bit. I'm rooting for Joe Kelly because of the way he whacked a Yankee, but when push comes to shove I don't trust him or Barnes - and they have been pitching well. I'm hoping Smith and Thornburg return to form - but that's not a given either. If they do it certainly lessens the need for a reliever, although I'd like to see a late inning lefty as well - and I like Britton - although you make a valid point - I don't know how good he'll be at this point, but I wouldn't want to deal away a Poyner, who I've always liked, and now Beeks - who has won me over. And if they can finagle it somehow on the roster it wouldn't shock me to see Beeks become a late inning high leverage threat later in the season. And then he could be a very viable candidate to take Pomeranz' spot next season. Well, I certainly think Beeks could be Cardinaled/Braved and used as a reliever, with the hope/plan of him replacing Pomeranz. That’s a money-saver and I almost always prefer internal options. As for wanting a second lock-down reliever, I really think they need to do the same...trust their internal options. Relievers outside of the elite are exceptionally volatile. Any trade for a sorta-big name risks what NY has struggled with with Kahnle, Betances, Robertson, and Chapman: even big names have down stretches/years. Barnes and Kelly have been very, very good. Your mistrust is historical, right? I totally get it. But trust breeds success. And to get a guy you and I really trust is going to cost a LOT. I’m not opposed to them looking; Realmuto is absolutely a guy I think they ought to ask about. But just like with the Sale trade (Moncada is looking like a 5- WAR player right now), there are downstream financial effects to emptying the farm further. If they make any moves, it’s got to be with the future in mind, be it an injury this year, a clunker next, etc. FWIW I had the IDENTICAL thought about NY. I really convinced myself they were a very good-not-great team. My bad, they’re as advertised. But they’re stacked on the farm. I think the Sox need to tread very carefully here. I think a win-at-all-costs approach has far more chance of oblivion than success. They’re best served by shrewd moves and even more shrewd non-moves. Let ‘em duke it out, toe-to-toe. I trust this roster.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 5, 2018 23:37:46 GMT -5
Before it got sidetracked with the Yankees vs. Sox thing, today's portion of the game thread was one of the most entertaining of all time to read in retrospect. Most of both the player praise and criticism gets negated an inning or two later.
Meanwhile, the Sox are 7-2 in games won after the other team got to a 75% Win Probability. Five of those wins are games they were down early (and they would have had six if it weren't for the second of the losses, the Kimbrel blown save / BJ meltdown 13-inning loss).
(For those who want to look it another way, they haven't had a comeback after being down late since they had two in three games at home against the Rays, April 7 and 9.)
Meanwhile again, they are now at 7-7 since the insane start. They haven't won 3 straight in that stretch, and if they can win tomorrow, I'm hoping we can look back at this as a 5-7 swoon before they got it rolling again.
I'll have relief rankings again before Monday's game (or tomorrow morning if I wake up crazy early and can't get back to sleep as sometimes happens). It still being early enough that one outing can matter, I want to see where Kelly and Kimbrel rank now. A Joe Kelly who can throw strikes consistently is a beautiful scary thing to behold.
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