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5/8-5/10 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 8, 2018 22:00:45 GMT -5
It was our worst pitching match-up of the series. It was a close game, we fought hard, came up short. I am at peace with this loss. You're right about all of what you said. Just a horrible day with the Price news and the loss combined.
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Post by wildsox on May 8, 2018 22:10:42 GMT -5
I will give Cora a few pass this time it’s his first real playoff type test and hope that he learns. He had 2 separate chances to pinch hit for Bradley and Vazquez and ended up 0 for 3. Also, he had Kelly,Smith and Barnes all available and chose to use Hembree. All failed decisions.
Some good things happened tonight too. Pomeranz battled through a real tough lineup and bad start to the game. Looks promising with him moving forward. His pitches looked sharper tonight. Our lineup grinded out some really good at bats against the other teams ace. Our #4 starter against the other teams ace and we were tied in the 7th all positives
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Post by incandenza on May 8, 2018 22:12:08 GMT -5
I think Dave and Jerry are being too generous - you don't get credit for consistency when you're consistently calling pitches two balls off the plate strikes. That is consistently being horrible at your job and injecting yourself into the game in big situations. The only reason Hanley didn't hit with runners on the corners is because a pitch four inches off the plate was called a strike. I guess some find that 'charming' but I do not... i think that is fair.....and your right. I did see some MFY's also shaking their head, but we got the worst of it. I don't know if it was the worst strike zone I've seen all season, but it was easily the most lopsidedly called strike zone. Yankees had 7-8 bad calls go their way, we had 1 or 2. That's just objectively looking at the - what do you call it? the strike zone chart?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 9, 2018 0:39:26 GMT -5
i think that is fair.....and your right. I did see some MFY's also shaking their head, but we got the worst of it. I don't know if it was the worst strike zone I've seen all season, but it was easily the most lopsidedly called strike zone. Yankees had 7-8 bad calls go their way, we had 1 or 2. That's just objectively looking at the - what do you call it? the strike zone chart? As I read the charts at BrooksBaseball, the Yankees got 6 gift strikes but were squeezed 5 times. The Sox got 1 gift and were squeezed once. But the "are you kidding me?" calls were 5 of the Yankee gifts (all way outside to LHB and not a strike on any known planet) and the first-pitch ball by Robertson to Benintendi (the PA which also had the outside gift on the subsequent 3-0 count). It was actually a nearly perfectly consistent strike zone (the ball 1 to Benny being the only "miss" if you could ask Cederstrom's brain to diagram the zone he thought he ought to call). No Red Sox pitcher threw a pitch into that wide area to lefties. Three of the 5 Yankee squeezes were on outside pitchers thigh-high to righties that are usually called strikes; they were also the only pitches thrown there.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 9, 2018 1:00:32 GMT -5
Remember Stanton had 2 cheap homeruns also. Drew gutted it out. Kelly did good work. I will say that Cora really does not want to go off script too much. Part of his job is to take risk and live with the results. I agree with most of what you said Jerry, but Kelly was not good today. 1 hit, one wild pitch, one walk in one inning of work. Two of his outs in his inning of work came on a throw out home at the plate. The Run Expectancy with the bases loaded and 1 out and average hitters due up is 1.6 runs. With Aaron Judge and Didi Gregorious up, it has to be 2. If they hadn't sent Torres, Gregorius's ball would have been an easy GDP, so there really wasn't any luck getting out of that jam. Not great pitching to get out of it unscathed, but still good to minimize the damage. In the 8th he did walk Stanton, who did move to 3B. But after he fanned Sanchez, the one-out grounder Hicks hit resulted in an easy out at home (made close only because Hanley hesitated) because they had the contact play on, so there was no luck involved there at all, either. Yankees had a 73.5% chance of winning (without factoring in their hitters) with Judge and Gregorius up, and finished the inning with 74.0%. They started the next inning with an 86.4% chance with Stanton, Sanchez, and Hicks due up, and after Kelly had faced them all it was down to 84.6%. None of the five hitters got the ball into the air. That's good pitching.
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danr
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Post by danr on May 9, 2018 1:11:58 GMT -5
I have always been a big fan of JBJ but I no longer can justify him being the starting CF. The Sox already have a black hole in hitting at catcher. As we saw tonight and other times, there also is a black hole in hitting in CF. The Yankees have a more balanced lineup. The Sox need to have that. To achieve that I think they have to sit JBJ, or send him to Pawtucket, and play JDM in LF and Benny in CF. Hanley can be the DH and Moreland can be the 1B. That improves the infield defense with only a marginal decrease in OF defense - maybe a little more than marginal but the difference may be made up in hitting.
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Post by huskies15 on May 9, 2018 8:14:38 GMT -5
The JBJ issue is tough. He's running a 45% K rate in the last 3 weeks? Ouch.
Looking at fastballs down the middle for strike 3 shows you a lost hitter. He has an option, but is that the solution for him?
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 9, 2018 9:37:36 GMT -5
JBJ and CV issues are magnified because last 10 games trending not going well for Xander or Hanley either. We have a top heavy line up with a big let down at the bottom at the moment.
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Post by incandenza on May 9, 2018 10:02:12 GMT -5
I don't know if it was the worst strike zone I've seen all season, but it was easily the most lopsidedly called strike zone. Yankees had 7-8 bad calls go their way, we had 1 or 2. That's just objectively looking at the - what do you call it? the strike zone chart? As I read the charts at BrooksBaseball, the Yankees got 6 gift strikes but were squeezed 5 times. The Sox got 1 gift and were squeezed once. But the "are you kidding me?" calls were 5 of the Yankee gifts (all way outside to LHB and not a strike on any known planet) and the first-pitch ball by Robertson to Benintendi (the PA which also had the outside gift on the subsequent 3-0 count). It was actually a nearly perfectly consistent strike zone (the ball 1 to Benny being the only "miss" if you could ask Cederstrom's brain to diagram the zone he thought he ought to call). No Red Sox pitcher threw a pitch into that wide area to lefties. Three of the 5 Yankee squeezes were on outside pitchers thigh-high to righties that are usually called strikes; they were also the only pitches thrown there. I did have the thought while the game was going on that Sox pitchers should throw outside to lefties more to try to take advantage of the Cederstrom zone. I don't know why they didn't.
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Post by braziliansox on May 9, 2018 10:41:47 GMT -5
I have always been a big fan of JBJ but I no longer can justify him being the starting CF. The Sox already have a black hole in hitting at catcher. As we saw tonight and other times, there also is a black hole in hitting in CF. The Yankees have a more balanced lineup. The Sox need to have that. To achieve that I think they have to sit JBJ, or send him to Pawtucket, and play JDM in LF and Benny in CF. Hanley can be the DH and Moreland can be the 1B. That improves the infield defense with only a marginal decrease in OF defense - maybe a little more than marginal but the difference may be made up in hitting. Marginal decrease? JBJ for JD Martinez is one of the biggest downgrades you can have in the whole league. If you call it marginal, you might as well say that OF defense doesnt matter.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 9, 2018 11:05:45 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you said Jerry, but Kelly was not good today. 1 hit, one wild pitch, one walk in one inning of work. Two of his outs in his inning of work came on a throw out home at the plate. The Run Expectancy with the bases loaded and 1 out and average hitters due up is 1.6 runs. With Aaron Judge and Didi Gregorious up, it has to be 2. If they hadn't sent Torres, Gregorius's ball would have been an easy GDP, so there really wasn't any luck getting out of that jam. Not great pitching to get out of it unscathed, but still good to minimize the damage. In the 8th he did walk Stanton, who did move to 3B. But after he fanned Sanchez, the one-out grounder Hicks hit resulted in an easy out at home (made close only because Hanley hesitated) because they had the contact play on, so there was no luck involved there at all, either. Yankees had a 73.5% chance of winning (without factoring in their hitters) with Judge and Gregorius up, and finished the inning with 74.0%. They started the next inning with an 86.4% chance with Stanton, Sanchez, and Hicks due up, and after Kelly had faced them all it was down to 84.6%. None of the five hitters got the ball into the air. That's good pitching. A lot of luck involved. If the hard ground ball goes 1 feet in either direction, Hanley doesn't make a play at home and the run scores. If Benintendi's throw home goes 1 feet in the any other direction, a run scores. You can look at it after and say "good pitching." I saw hard hit balls, a walk, and a bad wild pitch. The game was lost when Hembree blew up the game however. I don't put it on Kelly. Kelly should have been put in the game as soon as Waller got the double. Hembree should have *never faced* Gardner with first and second with one out. Cora took too long to pull Hembree and it cost him. Cora also missed the boat twice pinch hitting for Vazquez.
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Post by dmaineah on May 9, 2018 11:22:23 GMT -5
Why is JBJ starting?
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Post by jimed14 on May 9, 2018 11:41:35 GMT -5
If I were DD, I'd try to extend Joe Kelly before he's worth a lot more.
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Post by jdb on May 9, 2018 11:47:05 GMT -5
I have always been a big fan of JBJ but I no longer can justify him being the starting CF. The Sox already have a black hole in hitting at catcher. As we saw tonight and other times, there also is a black hole in hitting in CF. The Yankees have a more balanced lineup. The Sox need to have that. To achieve that I think they have to sit JBJ, or send him to Pawtucket, and play JDM in LF and Benny in CF. Hanley can be the DH and Moreland can be the 1B. That improves the infield defense with only a marginal decrease in OF defense - maybe a little more than marginal but the difference may be made up in hitting. Marginal decrease? JBJ for JD Martinez is one of the biggest downgrades you can have in the whole league. If you call it marginal, you might as well say that OF defense doesnt matter. I kind of took his point that he was factoring in Moreland and the overall defense.
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Post by dmaineah on May 9, 2018 12:03:24 GMT -5
Marginal decrease? JBJ for JD Martinez is one of the biggest downgrades you can have in the whole league. If you call it marginal, you might as well say that OF defense doesnt matter. I kind of took his point that he was factoring in Moreland and the overall defense. It's a better overall starting line up with JBJ on the bench and Moreland starting but that really makes for a weak pinch hitting bench. JBJ would only be a defensive replacement. Send him down. This could really come to a head when Pedroia is ready.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 9, 2018 12:15:47 GMT -5
If I were DD, I'd try to extend Joe Kelly before he's worth a lot more. I'm not sure he's going to increase his worth enough this season to make it worth it, and frankly, the flexibility of not being committed to him already entering the offseason might be worth an extra million paid later if he remains their best option. Meanwhile, I'm not sure he's going to take a sweetheart deal at this point with the way he's throwing. It's not like he doesn't realize that he's shoving right now. Next year's RP free agent class is pretty strong, imo: Cody Allen, Zach Britton, Santiago Casilla, Sean Doolittle, Daniel Hudson, Jim Johnson, Nate Jones, Andrew Miller, Adam Ottavino, David Phelps, AJ Ramos, David Robertson, Joakim Soria, Travis Wood, Brad Ziegler, and so forth. Joe Kelly's not going to jump to the top of that market easily, and even if he does, there are a number of options you could go to in order to replace him.
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Post by dmaineah on May 9, 2018 12:20:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure he's going to increase his worth enough this season to make it worth it, and frankly, the flexibility of not being committed to him already entering the offseason might be worth an extra million paid later if he remains their best option. Meanwhile, I'm not sure he's going to take a sweetheart deal at this point with the way he's throwing. It's not like he doesn't realize that he's shoving right now. Next year's RP free agent class is pretty strong, imo: Cody Allen, Zach Britton, Santiago Casilla, Sean Doolittle, Daniel Hudson, Jim Johnson, Nate Jones, Andrew Miller, Adam Ottavino, David Phelps, AJ Ramos, David Robertson, Joakim Soria, Travis Wood, Brad Ziegler, and so forth. Joe Kelly's not going to jump to the top of that market easily, and even if he does, there are a number of options you could go to in order to replace him. Don't forget Kimbrel
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Post by kevfc89 on May 9, 2018 12:48:08 GMT -5
I'll just say, Cora's explanation for not PH'ing Moreland in the 7th inning, with Robertson on the mound and JBJ and Vazquez due up made no sense. Maybe Moreland gets on base, and Mookie's triple drives in the go ahead run...idk, his lack of going to pinch hitters has been one of the stranger things about Cora so far.
"Just the spot," Cora emphasized. "It’s kind of hard just to burn him in certain situations. But we thought about it. Him, even Brock (Holt). They were ready. I think at the end, man at first, one out, it’s a tough one just to go ahead there. I think the situation didn’t come up for him to go out and hit."
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Post by jimed14 on May 9, 2018 12:49:52 GMT -5
If I were DD, I'd try to extend Joe Kelly before he's worth a lot more. I'm not sure he's going to increase his worth enough this season to make it worth it, and frankly, the flexibility of not being committed to him already entering the offseason might be worth an extra million paid later if he remains their best option. Meanwhile, I'm not sure he's going to take a sweetheart deal at this point with the way he's throwing. It's not like he doesn't realize that he's shoving right now. Next year's RP free agent class is pretty strong, imo: Cody Allen, Zach Britton, Santiago Casilla, Sean Doolittle, Daniel Hudson, Jim Johnson, Nate Jones, Andrew Miller, Adam Ottavino, David Phelps, AJ Ramos, David Robertson, Joakim Soria, Travis Wood, Brad Ziegler, and so forth. Joe Kelly's not going to jump to the top of that market easily, and even if he does, there are a number of options you could go to in order to replace him. I didn't mean to imply that he's going to jump to the front of that group. I meant that if DD can get a discount on what he might be worth in exchange for the security of a guaranteed contract today, it's worth exploring. Something like 3/$21M. To me, he's finally putting it together right now.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 9, 2018 12:51:56 GMT -5
I'll just say, Cora's explanation for not PH'ing Moreland in the 7th inning, with Robertson on the mound and JBJ and Vazquez due up made no sense. Maybe Moreland gets on base, and Mookie's triple drives in the go ahead run...idk, his lack of going to pinch hitters has been one of the stranger things about Cora so far. "Just the spot," Cora emphasized. "It’s kind of hard just to burn him in certain situations. But we thought about it. Him, even Brock (Holt). They were ready. I think at the end, man at first, one out, it’s a tough one just to go ahead there. I think the situation didn’t come up for him to go out and hit." Makes zero sense. I could see why JBJ hit in both spots (especially in spacious CF in Yankee stadium), but as Guidas pointed out, you have 3 freaking catchers on this roster and the lowest production from the catching position in the majors. You have to pinch hit for Vazquez in the 7th with Moreland at the very least.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on May 9, 2018 13:13:15 GMT -5
I'll just say, Cora's explanation for not PH'ing Moreland in the 7th inning, with Robertson on the mound and JBJ and Vazquez due up made no sense. Maybe Moreland gets on base, and Mookie's triple drives in the go ahead run...idk, his lack of going to pinch hitters has been one of the stranger things about Cora so far. "Just the spot," Cora emphasized. "It’s kind of hard just to burn him in certain situations. But we thought about it. Him, even Brock (Holt). They were ready. I think at the end, man at first, one out, it’s a tough one just to go ahead there. I think the situation didn’t come up for him to go out and hit." Yeah, Cora's been good overall, but his rigidity is becoming tiring already.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on May 9, 2018 14:32:52 GMT -5
JBJ sits:
Sox vs NYY: Betts CF; Benintendi LF; Ramirez DH; Martinez RF; Bogaerts SS; Moreland 1B; Nunez 2B; Devers 3B; Leon C
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 9, 2018 14:41:37 GMT -5
A lot of people are going to get on Price after a weak injury update.
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danr
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Post by danr on May 9, 2018 15:00:34 GMT -5
Price has Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. www.mlb.com/news/david-price-has-carpal-tunnel-syndrome/c-275980886I had a bad case of this in my right arm and hand a few years ago. I went to a neurologist at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) who wanted to perform surgery on my wrist to open up the passage for the nerve. My primary care physician warned me that this procedure often has problems. When I mentioned this to the neurologist, he said, "well, I won't talk about it anymore" and then he walked out of the room and I never saw him again. But there was an experimental program going on using acupuncture to treat CTS. I got into the program and had a series of acupuncture procedures. Within a short time the CTS was gone, and it never has returned.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 9, 2018 15:25:26 GMT -5
A lot of people are going to get on Price after a weak injury update. Weak injury? On what basis? Do you mean to suggest that Sox fans will call him soft for not 'gutting thru' the pain and numbness?...as in 'what a wuss'? ...and may I add...."as if". He has pressure from a ligament impinging on a nerve in his wrist. That is causing numbness, perhaps pain, loss of ability to grip (maybe why he isn't throwing his curve) and has impacted his ability to pitch effectively. Continued efforts to throw may well increase injury severity. Then what? Many times surgery is employed as remedy. I heard the Red Sox say he couldn't pitch currently....not Price. The Sox are looking out for his health and value to the team. Hopefully there are non-invasive treatments that can successfully treat him at this stage and save his season. We can only hope.
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