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Post by iakovos11 on May 25, 2018 14:14:20 GMT -5
This. No way they are getting anyone at all for Hanley. no matter how much of the remainder of the 15 mill for this year they are willing to eat? Yes. Why would pick him up with his current high salary (relative to how's played the past 2 years) and the potentially be on the hook for next year at $22mill if option vests. I'd be stunned.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 25, 2018 14:19:57 GMT -5
Champs....I just don't know if there was a manageable way of doing that. Realistically, it becomes a story simply because of the vesting option. Any appearance of a diminished role is going to bring the option into the conversation. Others have pointed out, are folks just waiting for a magical Hanley bat to appear and make things good. He has been pretty bad lately. Yup. I think it's really all about the vesting option and guessing what Hanley gives you going forward and is it worth it? Say he rebounds and he hits .270 with 25 - 30 homers, knocks in 100 and has an OPS around .800. That's a good performance that helps the Red Sox particularly if JBJ continues to slump or if Moreland tails off. I think that's helpful to the 2018 Red Sox - but is it worth $22 million for 2019 when he's a year older and the Sox have other contracts to consider? I totally get it. JBJ's bat forced Moreland into the lineup where he's done a good job. If JBJ was reviving with the bat and Moreland continues to hit, it's easier to justify sitting Hanley - particularly when he's in a brutal 10 game stretch like he's been. If JBJ had been hitting well you feel comfortable penciling him in for 600 plate appearances and you can justify splitting up Hanley and Moreland instead of them both in the lineup at the same time and keep Hanley under 497. He might not like it, but I don't think he would have given the Sox problems with his attitude. Alex Cora disagree with that statement
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 25, 2018 14:20:25 GMT -5
Travis is not currently profiling as a AAA first baseman, never mind an MLB back-up Travis always seemed to me to be one of those guys that would hit better in the Majors than he did in the Minors. I was happy with his at-bats with the big club last year. The last two seasons, in AAA and the major leagues, Travis has shown pronounced splits. That's a significant problem he needs to show he can fix, in addition to the power issue. That trend has continued to some degree this year, but he's just generally been so bad since coming back that I'm not inclined to use any split for him until the sample is bigger. As for this idea he'll hit better in the majors than the minors, is there any evidence of why that would be?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 25, 2018 14:27:20 GMT -5
no matter how much of the remainder of the 15 mill for this year they are willing to eat? Yes. Why would pick him up with his current high salary (relative to how's played the past 2 years) and the potentially be on the hook for next year at $22mill if option vests. I'd be stunned. For arguments sake....38 million over 2 years isn't a terrible contract. These owners have a lot of money and not all are near the luxury tax threshold More particularly, baseball markets are scarcity markets. A team would negate competition for Hanley's services by working out a trade. It may be a long shot, but I can guarantee some teams are thinking about it.
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Post by wildsox on May 25, 2018 14:30:10 GMT -5
I don’t have evidence in Travis’s case but there is track record of this being the case with some players. Joey Votto for example. Who was the same age as Travis when he got to the Majors. Yes, I do agree his current slump and struggle is a concern and something he needs to get out of before anything should be considered I just believe the talent is there.
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dirtdog
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Post by dirtdog on May 25, 2018 14:30:49 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesnt believe this?
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Post by mredsox89 on May 25, 2018 14:32:34 GMT -5
The idea coming from Cora is shocking. On the surface, this felt like a DD move, but by all accounts, Cora presented the idea, and DD went with it.
It's evident that the Sox love Swihart and are also fairly petrified of what will happen if either Leon or Vazquez get hurt.
You would think they'd have gotten Swihart more AB's given what they think of him, so hopefully that changes now and he can at least get a couple of starts a week somewhere, be it 1B, LF, or DH
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2018 14:50:51 GMT -5
Yup. I think it's really all about the vesting option and guessing what Hanley gives you going forward and is it worth it? Say he rebounds and he hits .270 with 25 - 30 homers, knocks in 100 and has an OPS around .800. That's a good performance that helps the Red Sox particularly if JBJ continues to slump or if Moreland tails off. I think that's helpful to the 2018 Red Sox - but is it worth $22 million for 2019 when he's a year older and the Sox have other contracts to consider? I totally get it. JBJ's bat forced Moreland into the lineup where he's done a good job. If JBJ was reviving with the bat and Moreland continues to hit, it's easier to justify sitting Hanley - particularly when he's in a brutal 10 game stretch like he's been. If JBJ had been hitting well you feel comfortable penciling him in for 600 plate appearances and you can justify splitting up Hanley and Moreland instead of them both in the lineup at the same time and keep Hanley under 497. He might not like it, but I don't think he would have given the Sox problems with his attitude. Alex Cora disagree with that statement Interesting. I wonder if that's based on any conversations between the two or if it's Cora's speculation.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on May 25, 2018 15:20:06 GMT -5
Baseball history says that Moreland WILL regress as the year goes along. The question is how much, and can he keep the regression minor enough to end up with a career year? Because something has to make up for the developing career years of the catchers and JBJ in the other direction, if they don't get their acts together. Ask yourself this: How would you rate the probabilities that Leon, Vazquez, and JBJ regress sufficiently so that their end of year statistics look at least somewhat in line with their career norms, and the probability that Moreland regresses in a sufficiently minor way that his batting line is substantially above his career averages at the end of the season?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2018 15:28:15 GMT -5
Well, the silver lining is that Hanley can stick around and play in the Red Sox alumni game on Sunday now that he's alumni
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 15:29:51 GMT -5
DFA a guy that can carry your offense when he's hot. Why not. It's only May and the Sox are already in first place...
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Post by Don Caballero on May 25, 2018 15:37:56 GMT -5
I get that this is probably the "right" call, it's still sad to end up like this. Hanley wasn't always consistent and he could be VERY frustrating, but he was awesome to watch and he deserved a better send off than this. It is what it is though.
I'll always be a fan at least.
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Post by jimed14 on May 25, 2018 15:40:34 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesnt believe this? Where's the obvious follow up question - "Won't you try to also win next year and be able to do a lot more with that $22 million?"
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Post by sarasoxer on May 25, 2018 15:50:39 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesnt believe this? Where's the obvious follow up question - "Won't you try to also win next year and be able to do a lot more with that $22 million?" Yeah. I think DD was being a touch politically correct.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 16:05:44 GMT -5
Absolutely the right move. Spend the 22 million next year in other areas.
People are making a big deal that Hanley is one of the better hitters in this lineup too. He's not. This is who I would take over Hanley versus RHP- Benintendi Mookie JDM Moreland Xander Pedrioa Devers
That is 7 players I would rather have hitting over Hanley versus RHP. 70-75 percent of the at bats in a season comes against RHP. When JBJ gets back out of one of the worst slumps in his career, I'd trust him to put up a better at bat and to get on base more than Hanley too.
If you want to look at paper and at his career on a whole, you can make a argument that he's historically better.
If you watch his terrible at bats with your eyes everyday, you'd see why this was a easy decision. The only role here Hanley had was against LHP and a occasional right handed pitcher to give a day off. He didn't want that role. So it's time to move on.
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 16:11:20 GMT -5
That time when the Sox went 17-2, Hanley hit
.333 .392 .530 .922
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 16:17:00 GMT -5
Absolutely the right move. Spend the 22 million next year in other areas. People are making a big deal that Hanley is one of the better hitters in this lineup too. He's not. This is who I would take over Hanley versus RHP- Benintendi Mookie JDM Moreland Xander Pedrioa Devers That is 7 players I would rather have hitting over Hanley versus RHP. 70-75 percent of the at bats in a season comes against RHP. When JBJ gets back out of one of the worst slumps in his career, I'd trust him to put up a better at bat and to get on base more than Hanley too. If you want to look at paper and at his career on a whole, you can make a argument that he's historically better. If you watch his terrible at bats with your eyes everyday, you'd see why this was a easy decision. The only role here Hanley had was against LHP and a occasional right handed pitcher to give a day off. He didn't want that role. So it's time to move on. DD still had about 300 more Hanley plate appearances before he needed to start worrying about that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 16:20:51 GMT -5
Absolutely the right move. Spend the 22 million next year in other areas. People are making a big deal that Hanley is one of the better hitters in this lineup too. He's not. This is who I would take over Hanley versus RHP- Benintendi Mookie JDM Moreland Xander Pedrioa Devers That is 7 players I would rather have hitting over Hanley versus RHP. 70-75 percent of the at bats in a season comes against RHP. When JBJ gets back out of one of the worst slumps in his career, I'd trust him to put up a better at bat and to get on base more than Hanley too. If you want to look at paper and at his career on a whole, you can make a argument that he's historically better. If you watch his terrible at bats with your eyes everyday, you'd see why this was a easy decision. The only role here Hanley had was against LHP and a occasional right handed pitcher to give a day off. He didn't want that role. So it's time to move on. DD still had about 300 more Hanley plate appearances before he needed to start worrying about that. No because as Chris pointed out, the Sox had a way out early. The closer you get to the end of those plate appearances, the more leverage that Hanley Ramirez had to file a grievance to get his money for that vesting option. You also have a potential disgruntled Hanley not playing a lot because of his plate appearance situation. It's the right move to do this now, especially since he's not hitting.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on May 25, 2018 16:21:54 GMT -5
I can understand where Cora was coming from by asking Dombroski to DFA Hanley. There is no way he was going to take sitting more frequently silently, particularly with his $22 million vesting option in front of him. There was no way Dombroski could let that $22 million option vest with guys like Sales, Betts, Bogaerts, etc due to be paid.
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Post by dawnbringr on May 25, 2018 16:22:50 GMT -5
IMHO, a great move by the Sox. Yeah, Dombrowski must have had a hard time keeping a straight face while saying "the vesting option had nothing to do with it". Something here doesn't "ping" right to me, though. I'm not buying for a minute that this was Cora's idea. I think this came from upstairs, and Cora was more or less "told" to get Swihart more involved. For whatever reason, I don't think Cora is enthralled with Swihart at ANY level,, but now he is more or less "stuck" with him, at least for the time being.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 16:23:00 GMT -5
That time when the Sox went 17-2, Hanley hit .333 .392 .530 .922 The Sox are also 13-9 in May with Hanley hitting in the upper part of the order and hitting like a replacement level player. This team can win without Hanley and the lineup construction is now way better off for it because Hanley isn't in the top third of the lineup anymore.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 25, 2018 16:26:43 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesnt believe this? Nobody believes this.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on May 25, 2018 16:30:53 GMT -5
I understand the move with the context of next season on the horizon but... wow. I'm really surprised, and I hope Moreland's bat doesn't go back to the Moreland of old
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 16:33:44 GMT -5
The one last thing I'll say about this is that Hanley didn't anger me because he's been mostly a replacement level type of player here in Boston most of the time.
It was his at bats that angered me. Too many first pitch weak outs. Too many times where he was literally giving away useless at bats.
I liked Hanley the person however. I wish him nothing but the best going forward. He's a great guy and a funny person. Especially great with the kids. He's getting paid well and he's set for life now with this contract though, so I can't feel too too bad for him.
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 16:34:23 GMT -5
That time when the Sox went 17-2, Hanley hit .333 .392 .530 .922 The Sox are also 13-9 in May with Hanley hitting in the upper part of the order and hitting like a replacement level player. This team can win without Hanley and the lineup construction is now way better off for it because Hanley isn't in the top third of the lineup anymore. Right, because Swihart is so much better of a hitter than Hanley, obviously.
It's amazing that DD is going for a WS this year, yet taking steps to weaken the lineup.
If you don't like hitting Hanley in the top third during his cold streaks, move him down in the lineup. Batting him 6-7 makes your lineup extremely deep.
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