2018 Boston Celtics offseason

Baynes played 18 minutes a game last year and I really don't think he will play anymore than that next yr, probably less given Heyward coming back and given the Theis injury this yr. Now if he can continue to improve his 3 pt shooting he will be more valuable but he won't see that in a contract this off season. If Theis is fully healthy I can see him getting more minutes and having a much better 2nd season in the NBA, I am high on him being a lot more valuable next yr.

Yeah Roziers 7th game performance will temper the optimism but if they can turn him into A pick that nets Robert Williams I would do it. The C's don't need to do anything to be a contender next yr but the future is begging for a good big.

If they love the player and can use Rozier to get him fine. However, just because they will be a contender next year doesn’t mean they should just willy nilly trade a guy who can help them for a pick. Rozier makes the team a lot better next year on many levels. Bench scoring, secondary ball handler, Marcus Smart Insurance and injury insurance are all very important to a team with Championship aspirations.

Remember free agency is after the draft so if you trade Rozier then Smart signs a big offer sheet your leverage with Smart has gone out the window.

No one is suggesting the Celtics should do anything but give him a modest raise so putting money aside why does it matter if he wouldn’t be as good without Stevens as his coach? Stevens is his coach if he signs here. It’s about the role he fills and how they could replace it and I am not so sure they could do that. Assuming we have to go thru Philly again then he’s a nice piece to have against Embiid.

So you look at Roziers numbers and think man thats not impressive? 16.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.7 assists, and 1.3 steals. Even with that really crappy game he still shot 40.6% and 34.7% ftom deep, 82.1% from the line. 17.3 PER, .149 WS/48, 3.6 OBPM, .9 DBPM and a 4.5 BPM. Maybe the most impressive stat is only 1.3 turnovers per game.

Not impressive compared to what? The top 10 PGs in the whole league?

We've seen a player like Jeff Teague with only one year on his deal get traded for a late lottery pick. He was making a lot more than Rozier and didn't have restricted free agency like Rozier does. So I really have zero doubt Danny could get a good amount for him. Its more like Danny really likes the kid and wants to keep him or this is just Danny upping the price. I will say this, it makes zero sense not to trade him if you don't think your going to pay him next year. One year of Rozier on the bench with Smart isn't going to be some massive difference. He just won't get enough minutes unless an injury happens. I also don't get the bench scoring theory when your looking at a guy like Hayward or Tatum being a bench player. If you assume Hayward is the bench player because of the injury, to take it slow with him. That's a bench of Smart, Rozier, Hayward, Morris and Thies. That bench is better than half the teams starters in this league or close to it.

We only have like 13 to 14 million under the luxury tax line. Thats not counting Smart at even 6 million, resigning Baynes, or our first round pick. Nevermind adding another player. If you keep both Smart and Rozier you basically have to trade  Morris or your likely paying the luxury tax. Unless Danny is going to move Yabu to create a little more room. So you have options, I just don't see a role for Morris on a team with Tatum, Hayward and Brown. Not if your keeping Smart and Rozier.  I'm thinking given his cheap contract that you could get a nice return for Morris, either a draft pick, a young player or maybe both.

I realize you are super protective of Terry so I’m going to assume you read my post quickly and reacted to it. I literally said he deserves a lot of love. I merely pointed out that after a love affair time passes and people look back at number and SOME of his aren’t THAT impressive. They just aren’t.

I don’t know what you mean by a good amount but you referenced Teague getting a lottery pick and I indicated I’d be happy with a lottery pick in return.

I think your assertion that it makes ZERO sense not to trade him if they don’t think they will pay him next year, is pretty foolish. You need qualifiers. I said if you aren’t getting a lottery pick, unless a player you love had fallen it makes no sense to trade him. Are you saying you would trade him for whatever you can get no matter what it is? I just don’t understand that logic. You literally campaign every year to trade a first round pick at the deadline for a couple month rental that’s a marginal upgrade because “you never know what can happen”, so why would you dump Rozier for a mid to late first?

Dude don't ever take anything SAS says as a real possibility. Lebron is not coming and honestly I don't think they should even have a meeting with him given the risk of alienating Kyrie, which would be for nothing because Lebron is absolutely not coming here.

I wouldn't take LeBron on because of age, unless he signed a mid level exception for a year or two (not happening).

I would be interested in him if he wasn't 33. The Celtics are young. Just isn't a match. LeBron will probably end up with Philly or Houston.

RJP you can't rip a guy for a paragraph then say your not ripping him and that just makes the first paragraph not matter. His numbers aren't impressive compared to what?

You're about the only person to try and make a point that Roziers numbers don't match the hype. It's a rather silly position given his numbers during the playoffs. Add in the fact that he has crazy athleticism and hasn't come close to reaching his ceiling and it makes no sense. Its like you think game 7 means more than game 6 and it doesn't.

My point is simple, if your bar is lottery pick, you can get that or its equal in value for Rozier. For me there isn't a question if you can get that. The question is more like is that enough or I just don't want to trade him because his value is more like a top 7 draft choice or he's the perfect fit for this team I'm just not trading him, I'll pay him and workout the tax later on. I don't think Danny loves this draft, unless he is playing games again and you never know. His comments kinda match what I see in this draft. 

Lets say you can get Beasley and #14 for Rozier and Robert Williams is available. I really like the guy, but he has a ton of issues and the chances he's every  the player Rozier is right now is small. He's like Jordan Bell but less skilled frankly. He might have a higher upside than Bell given his size, but he's not the passer Bell was and he can't hit FT. He's a super raw undersized center in a power forwards body. He most likely rebounds  and defends well, but can he learn to hit FTs, limit TOs and become a team player? Part of me wonders if Danny has any interest in a player like him at all. He passed on Bell for Semi and I still don't get why. Not that Semi isn't a good player, but they seemed equal on talent and Bell fit a huge need. It seems Danny preferred the player with a better chance of becoming a two way player.

So if Danny is willing to pay Rozier than keep him. If not do the trade even if you don't think it's great value. Its not like your going to get a late round pick for him, not in this draft. I'd rather pay Rozier over Smart unless its some massive difference. Thing is by keeping both Smart and Rozier you drive down Roziers value to the team. He won't get 25 to 30 minutes a night, not with both Smart and Irving. I don't see how you play a ton of 3 guard lineups with Horford, Tatum, Brown and Hayward. That doesn't make sense. So if were talking one year of Rozier, it makes sense to deal him and just bring back Larkin. Now if no Smart, that changes things. You keep him. 

The last two years I've talked about dealing a first for a true difference making player. First Ibaka, which I was wrong. Second was Randle and that would have been a killer trade. Adding a young player that can play small ball five, score and rebound. A player that could truly impact certain playoff series. A guy to get eady buckets when the offense goes cold. A guy that could in theory replace Horford long-term. I wasn't about trading a first for Evans like other posters. Randle being young and having a 5th year option were big parts. I just don't see us needing a player like Rozier if you have Irving, Smart, Larkin and most likely a young guard at end of round one at the deadline. Its really all a minutes thing. To get enough value not to trade Rozier you have to have enough minutes for him to truly impact the games or being willing to keep him long-term. You will get enough value in a trade if you do move him. You have to keep one of them if you really want to be a title contender for the next 5 years.

This now constitutes ripping a player.... saying he deserves a bunch of love... speechless.

How dare someone question if his god awful game 7 erased some of the love surrounding him?

How dare someone liking the player so much for their team that they wouldn’t trade him for less than a lottery pick?

My god I need to apologize to Rozier and his family. You’ve bordered on the absurd here.

That's twice now you won't address that last sentence. Your acting like he was over hyped and his numbers don't match that,  but they do. 

It’s funny because you said it after being on your knees all post season about LeBron.

Outside of his three-point percentage, Rozier's shooting percentages, particularly his shooting percentage at the rim and in the paint and his ability (or lack thereof) to draw fouls, aren't very impressive, which hurts his overall efficiency. He's still a guy who, despite his athleticism, struggles to finish at the rim over length and can't consistently draw fouls. Despite his very good three-point percentage, a .520 TS% ('17-18 RS)/.538 TS% (playoffs) is middling at best. That's not to say that he's a bad player or that he can't improve, but it's a totally valid point to say that there are areas where he wasn't that impressive.