SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 12:19:18 GMT -5
Derek Jeter also won gold glove awards. Justin Verlander was the more deserving pitcher during Porcello's Cy Young award winning season. Maybe Verlander should have won the award that year but it wasn't that clearcut. Porcello was damn good. Say he's average or a bit above average. Contrast that with a replacement level pitcher for all those innings and suddenly the man becomes quite valuable saving you a bunch of runs that others would give up. He's extremely valuable and his ceiling is that of an ace/#2 starter which he's kind of been this season and in 2016. He's been a #3/#4 throughout most of his career beyond that. They had some stacked rotations in Detroit so he was a #4 starter mostly there. If you're trying to make the point that when the Sox have to figure out who to give money to after the 2019 season and you're saying he'd have to wait in line behind Sale and Bogaerts that's one thing. But that doesn't seem to be what's coming out. That one great year, he is probably a great number two or a number one starter in a bad pitching year. Certainly not a ACE. I won't compare that to the obvious stud in Chris Sale by comparison. I'll use Josh Beckett. Beckett had 4 seasons where he exceeded a fWar over 3 in his time with the Sox. Porcello has done this once. Beckett in his best year here was a *half win better* than Porcello with a xFip of a half run less than Porcello's 2016 in 2007. Beckett didn't even win the Cy Young that year. Look Porcello had a great year in 2016. He has never had a 3 fWar season beyond that. He's still valuable however, but I hold high standards of what a number one starter should be. If he has a xFip of 3.89 in his best year, then you're not a number one starter imo. That's a number 2 starter. If you want to pump up Porcello and that Cy Young mantra, then go ahead but I can't do it. I'll stop clogging up the trade thread about this said subject though.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jul 22, 2018 12:42:32 GMT -5
This isn’t a debate about if he deserved the Cy Young. It’s irrelevant, lets just say he was the 3rd or 4th best starter that year. That’s still not mid rotation . This is about you saying his CEILING is a mid rotation guy and implying he’s really a 5th starter type. I think almost everyone here would concede he’s most probably a mid-rotation starter but that’s not what you said or insinuated. Then when you’re called on it, instead of just clarifying or adjusting a bit, you try and double down and explain why he shouldn’t have won the Cy Young like him being an unworthy winner means he was really league average that year.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 22, 2018 12:46:47 GMT -5
@rumorbreakmlb #Braves, #Yankees, #Athletics, #RedSox, #Mariners all have scouts at today's #BlueJays vs #Orioles game. #MLB Britton Idk if the A’s would look for yet another BP piece (though rentals are a cost-effective way for that team to make a run). But it’s a pretty impressive list. Still think Britton is a perfect fit for the Sox, but only at the right price.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 22, 2018 13:00:43 GMT -5
Maybe Verlander should have won the award that year but it wasn't that clearcut. Porcello was damn good. Say he's average or a bit above average. Contrast that with a replacement level pitcher for all those innings and suddenly the man becomes quite valuable saving you a bunch of runs that others would give up. He's extremely valuable and his ceiling is that of an ace/#2 starter which he's kind of been this season and in 2016. He's been a #3/#4 throughout most of his career beyond that. They had some stacked rotations in Detroit so he was a #4 starter mostly there. If you're trying to make the point that when the Sox have to figure out who to give money to after the 2019 season and you're saying he'd have to wait in line behind Sale and Bogaerts that's one thing. But that doesn't seem to be what's coming out. That one great year, he is probably a great number two or a number one starter in a bad pitching year. Certainly not a ACE. I won't compare that to the obvious stud in Chris Sale by comparison. I'll use Josh Beckett. Beckett had 4 seasons where he exceeded a fWar over 3 in his time with the Sox. Porcello has done this once. Beckett in his best year here was a *half win better* than Porcello with a xFip of a half run less than Porcello's 2016 in 2007. Beckett didn't even win the Cy Young that year. Look Porcello had a great year in 2016. He has never had a 3 fWar season beyond that. He's still valuable however, but I hold high standards of what a number one starter should be. If he has a xFip of 3.89 in his best year, then you're not a number one starter imo. That's a number 2 starter. If you want to pump up Porcello and that Cy Young mantra, then go ahead but I can't do it. I'll stop clogging up the trade thread about this said subject though. Nobody called him an ace. You claimed his ceiling was mid-rotation, and that he often failed to reach it. You’re defending an indefensible position. That’s why every single poster on your comment has given you blowback. Barring some bizarre luck or an earth-rending trade (it’s DD, so that’s a possibility), I’d much prefer Harvey over Fiers. I don’t think they need a starter under control for next year, at least not him. A cheap rental they can maybe entice to stick around on a pillow deal with upside is a better option. Idk what grade sprain Rodriguez has, but some depth would help. They’re in a short-term mode anyway, better to limit prospect loss unless then somehow come across an offer they can’t refuse. Pick up Dozier if the Brewers aren’t going to outbid them (they might).
|
|
bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
|
Post by bosox on Jul 22, 2018 13:07:49 GMT -5
@rumorbreakmlb #Braves, #Yankees, #Athletics, #RedSox, #Mariners all have scouts at today's #BlueJays vs #Orioles game. #MLB Britton Idk if the A’s would look for yet another BP piece (though rentals are a cost-effective way for that team to make a run). But it’s a pretty impressive list. Still think Britton is a perfect fit for the Sox, but only at the right price. I believe the A's are looking for a starter. You have Happ and Cashner going to today and in addition to Britton, I think the Braves, Yankees and Mariners have been interested in Happ.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 13:18:31 GMT -5
That one great year, he is probably a great number two or a number one starter in a bad pitching year. Certainly not a ACE. I won't compare that to the obvious stud in Chris Sale by comparison. I'll use Josh Beckett. Beckett had 4 seasons where he exceeded a fWar over 3 in his time with the Sox. Porcello has done this once. Beckett in his best year here was a *half win better* than Porcello with a xFip of a half run less than Porcello's 2016 in 2007. Beckett didn't even win the Cy Young that year. Look Porcello had a great year in 2016. He has never had a 3 fWar season beyond that. He's still valuable however, but I hold high standards of what a number one starter should be. If he has a xFip of 3.89 in his best year, then you're not a number one starter imo. That's a number 2 starter. If you want to pump up Porcello and that Cy Young mantra, then go ahead but I can't do it. I'll stop clogging up the trade thread about this said subject though. Nobody called him an ace. You claimed his ceiling was mid-rotation, and that he often failed to reach it. You’re defending an indefensible position. That’s why every single poster on your comment has given you blowback. Champs just called him a Ace. You called him a number one. I listed the reasons why I didn't think he was. I get the blowback, but it wasn't indefensible that I also said he failed to reach mid rotation starter status a lot. The guy has a ERA over 4 and a half in 6 out of his 9 full years as a big leaguer (not including this one because it isn't completed yet). That was the only point I was making.
|
|
|
Post by ortiz34 on Jul 22, 2018 13:37:25 GMT -5
@masnroch While it’s true #dodgers in talks with #orioles regarding Britton, hearing #astros, #redsox and #cubs more active
If not us, we need to make sure Theo gets him.
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Jul 22, 2018 13:59:18 GMT -5
I <3 this thread
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 14:01:51 GMT -5
Big fan of a trade rumors?
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 22, 2018 14:07:39 GMT -5
I agree that Porcello isn’t good if you ignore the times when he’s good. Will you acknowledge the years he was bad too then? Doubt it.Either way, his entire career has screamed mid rotation type. Even during that vaunted cy young season, Porcello had a xFIP of 3.89 Rick Porcello's ERA for his entire Boston tenure is 4.16. Fangraphs Depth Charts projects him for a 4.16 ERA going forward. Both marks are about five percent better than league average, and are very close to his career averages as well. There, I've properly acknowledged both his good and bad stretches of pitching and weighted them in a straightforward and reasonable fashion. Can we move the hell on, please?
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 14:31:32 GMT -5
@masnroch While it’s true #dodgers in talks with #orioles regarding Britton, hearing #astros, #redsox and #cubs more active If not us, we need to make sure Theo gets him. Maybe a 4 team race now. The Phillies are probably a dark horse here. Edit- I wonder how the Astros top 5-10 prospects compare to the Sox 5-10 prospects?
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Jul 22, 2018 14:42:39 GMT -5
Big fan of a trade rumors? What trade rumors?
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 14:45:43 GMT -5
Big fan of a trade rumors? What trade rumors? You must have missed the first 8 pages.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 22, 2018 14:48:15 GMT -5
Porcello has made 20 starts, for the first 19 his ERA was under 4 for every single one of them. Litterally one horrible start took him from 3.58 to 4.12. Talk about putting way too much focus on one start. If he's good in his next start his ERA will go below 4 again. Wow.
More importantly he's made 3 starts against the Astros and Yankees, with two of them being very good. So yea lets just keep harping on the fact his ERA is over 4 because of one fluke start against Toronto and overlook his other 19 starts. That makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 15:24:17 GMT -5
No mention of the Red Sox here, which makes me think and hope the Sox are more serious for Dozier
|
|
|
Post by carmenfanzone on Jul 22, 2018 15:37:19 GMT -5
People are talking about the Red Sox getting Britton or Dozier and others. How are they going to add anyone without going over the salary cap and incurring the penalties that come with that? Aren't they right up against the cap with the addition of Pearce?
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 15:38:27 GMT -5
People are talking about the Red Sox getting Britton or Dozier and others. How are they going to add anyone without going over the salary cap and incurring the penalties that come with that? Aren't they right up against the cap with the addition of Pearce? Yeah they are. They probably need to trade players back making real salary or just go way over. I think they are most likely going way over.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 15:38:44 GMT -5
Don't get this one for the Sox.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2018 15:39:03 GMT -5
People are talking about the Red Sox getting Britton or Dozier and others. How are they going to add anyone without going over the salary cap and incurring the penalties that come with that? Aren't they right up against the cap with the addition of Pearce? Sam Kennedy has pretty much said that for the right player the Sox are willing to go over. Dombrowski has said as much too. I didn't think they would. Didn't think they wanted to. I think their goal was to try not to, but given where the Sox are right now, they should if given the right opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2018 15:41:40 GMT -5
Don't get this one for the Sox. They'd be building up their bench. It would mean that JDM DHes a lot more, that Pearce plays 1b against lefties platooning with Moreland and that Jackson would play CF against lefties in a platoon with JBJ. I can see the logic of it. I just have trouble seeing how they shoehorn him onto the roster, but in the post-season you normally have 5 bench guys and go with 11 pitchers so if that's the case a bench of Leon, Swihart, Phillips (if Holt is the 2B), Nunez, and Jackson could work.
|
|
|
Post by tizzle on Jul 22, 2018 15:42:43 GMT -5
Don't get this one for the Sox. Could understand if it was an August 31 deal, getting a guy who could be the 25th man in the postseason when you need one less P. An extra OF and pair of legs. But then again, I see Swihart in that role after Vazquez comes back.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2018 15:43:17 GMT -5
People are talking about the Red Sox getting Britton or Dozier and others. How are they going to add anyone without going over the salary cap and incurring the penalties that come with that? Aren't they right up against the cap with the addition of Pearce? Sam Kennedy has pretty much said that for the right player the Sox are willing to go over. Dombrowski has said as much too. I didn't think they would. Didn't think they wanted to. I think their goal was to try not to, but given where the Sox are right now, they should if given the right opportunity. I would only go over for a big upgrade such as Dozier, Scooter Gennett or Britton.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2018 15:44:25 GMT -5
Don't get this one for the Sox. They'd be building up their bench. It would mean that JDM DHes a lot more, that Pearce plays 1b against lefties platooning with Moreland and that Jackson would play CF against lefties in a platoon with JBJ. I can see the logic of it. I just have trouble seeing how they shoehorn him onto the roster, but in the post-season you normally have 5 bench guys and go with 11 pitchers so if that's the case a bench of Leon, Swihart, Phillips (if Holt is the 2B), Nunez, and Jackson could work. Except he sucks and just got released by the Rangers. I can't see how he'd help at all.
|
|
|
Post by tizzle on Jul 22, 2018 15:45:20 GMT -5
Don't get this one for the Sox. They'd be building up their bench. It would mean that JDM DHes a lot more, that Pearce plays 1b against lefties platooning with Moreland and that Jackson would play CF against lefties in a platoon with JBJ. I can see the logic of it. I just have trouble seeing how they shoehorn him onto the roster, but in the post-season you normally have 5 bench guys and go with 11 pitchers so if that's the case a bench of Leon, Swihart, Phillips (if Holt is the 2B), Nunez, and Jackson could work. Psst... you forgot Pearce.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 22, 2018 15:46:42 GMT -5
Don't get this one for the Sox. They'd be building up their bench. It would mean that JDM DHes a lot more, that Pearce plays 1b against lefties platooning with Moreland and that Jackson would play CF against lefties in a platoon with JBJ. I can see the logic of it. I just have trouble seeing how they shoehorn him onto the roster, but in the post-season you normally have 5 bench guys and go with 11 pitchers so if that's the case a bench of Leon, Swihart, Phillips (if Holt is the 2B), Nunez, and Jackson could work. Given the lack of room on the 25 man roster, I don't see much of a fit really. The Sox have so many players without options already.
|
|
|