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7/23-7/25 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 21:50:36 GMT -5
I can't wait until Dave Dombrowski ticks off half the message board in a week. I'll have the popcorn ready.
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Post by danredhawk on Jul 24, 2018 21:58:23 GMT -5
That's the point - they're NOT going to play .500 baseball the rest of the way. But if they did, they'd win 101 and the Yankees would have to go 37-26 just to match them (.587). If the Red Sox play a completely manageable 35-25 to finish the season, they'll win 106 games and the Yankees would need to play .667 (42-21) just to tie. Or the Sox might even play .696 ball like they have all season and bury the NYY... Yes, that IS good enough that I'm not even remotely interested in making a movie to bring in another back end starter who offers no real playoff upgrade and very very very little upgrade at all. They're in great shape for the rest of the regular season, as is, with Johnson, Velazquez, Beeks, Pomeranz and with recent better news on Rodriguez, to boot, and Wright potentially down the line... Unless they're going all in for a Syndergard or DeGrom type to pair with Sale in the playoffs (which they likely couldn't pull off even if they wanted to) than there is NO need. Adding a starter is not in their top three needs moving forward. It just isn't. The sky is not falling just because Pomeranz was shaky tonight. He's been shaky all season and they're 40 games over .500... I could see the Yankees playing that well after the deadline. A guy who isn't MLB quality pitching for your rotation every five days can level the playing field. If the Yankees can win 42 of 63 than what's to stop them from winning 43 or 44? The Red Sox are not going undefeated to finish the season, and the Yankees are good, so I don't know what to tell you. They're both going to the playoffs and it's going to come down to who's playing well at that time and not who has the better fifth starter... But you've spent 102 games telling us that the Sox can't compete and/or are doomed for this reason or that. So don't stop now, but you're going to have to deal with some snark because it's incredibly tiresome...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2018 21:59:49 GMT -5
That will also give you the best second place team in the history of MLB. That's the point - they're NOT going to play .500 baseball the rest of the way. But if they did, they'd win 101 and the Yankees would have to go 37-26 just to match them (.587). If the Red Sox play a completely manageable 35-25 to finish the season, they'll win 106 games and the Yankees would need to play .667 (42-21) just to tie. Or the Sox might even play .696 ball like they have all season and bury the NYY... Yes, that IS good enough that I'm not even remotely interested in making a movie to bring in another back end starter who offers no real playoff upgrade and very very very little upgrade at all. They're in great shape for the rest of the regular season, as is, with Johnson, Velazquez, Beeks, Pomeranz and with recent better news on Rodriguez, to boot, and Wright potentially down the line... Unless they're going all in for a Syndergard or DeGrom type to pair with Sale in the playoffs (which they likely couldn't pull off even if they wanted to) than there is NO need. Adding a starter is not in their top three needs moving forward. It just isn't. The sky is not falling just because Pomeranz was shaky tonight. He's been shaky all season and they're 40 games over .500... Nobody says the sky is falling. But if the Sox do play well and go 35-25 what makes you think the Yankees can't go 42-21 to tie? They've been playing close to .667 ball anyways. It's not that big a stretch. Yes, the Sox were 40 games over without Pomeranz. They didn't have to rely on him. Now their starting pitching depth has been whittled away and unless they obtain somebody they're still going to have to rely on him every 5th day. They can't have a guy like Pomeranz pitching every 5th day like this and expect not to run into problems at some point. They don't have to trade the farm to get a backend starter and you don't have to raise the bar that much to pitch better than what Pomeranz will probably give you. If you think Pomeranz is going to pitch fine, then I understand your argument, but if you have doubts, then I don't think it's unreasonable to want to upgrade the back end of the rotation. Besides, they're one injury away from really being depleted in the starting rotation. It doesn't hurt to have insurance. It looks like Fiers is the guy on their radar. He's not great, but he'd be an upgrade. And at this point every little upgrade counts. The Red Sox hardly have this division sewn up, and staying out of the Wild Card game is important. The Red Sox' aim isn't to make the playoffs. It's to win the division and then go all the way from there. And I'd say back end starter is up there as a need along with a high leverage reliever and an upgrade at 2b. I really don't understand the line of reasoning of the Sox are great. They don't need anything. No improvements anywhere are necessary.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 22:09:07 GMT -5
I could see the Yankees playing that well after the deadline. A guy who isn't MLB quality pitching for your rotation every five days can level the playing field. If the Yankees can win 42 of 63 than what's to stop them from winning 43 or 44? The Red Sox are not going undefeated to finish the season, and the Yankees are good, so I don't know what to tell you. They're both going to the playoffs and it's going to come down to who's playing well at that time and not who has the better fifth starter... But you've spent 102 games telling us that the Sox can't compete and/or are doomed for this reason or that. So don't stop now, but you're going to have to deal with some snark because it's incredibly tiresome... I have never said the Sox are doomed. I have never said the Sox can't compete. What are you talking about?!!!! You're making it personal, not me. "They're both going to the playoffs and it's going to come down to who's playing well at that time and not who has the better fifth starter" If your 5th starter isn't performing and is hindering you from playing well, then how is this not a complete contradiction?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2018 22:12:33 GMT -5
Nice comeback try for the Sox tonight. When Betts got to the plate they had a real shot. It's a shame. The one downside is you know he's going to scald the ball - you just hope it's not an at-em ball, and it was unfortunately.
Too bad Pomeranz and Kelly were so bad or else the Sox would have taken this one. Kelly is a total mess. You can't even use him in a game that's close anymore. I'm glad he's a free agent at the end of the season. At this point I hope he has a hot streak to end the season before he goes.
It's nice to see Swihart playing better. He needs more starts behind the plate. Swihart, the catcher, can be a useful player. I like Swihart the catcher so much better than Swihart the 25th man/utility bench warmer.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 24, 2018 22:21:01 GMT -5
So what's the scoop on Kelly? I had no great, high hopes for Pomeranz tonight. But...take away Kelly's utterly craptastic performance and we win this game.
Is it his arm/a physical thing....or has it become mental? He is slip sliding down the depth chart fast. Can't put someone with no command in tough situations.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 22:23:50 GMT -5
That's the point - they're NOT going to play .500 baseball the rest of the way. But if they did, they'd win 101 and the Yankees would have to go 37-26 just to match them (.587). If the Red Sox play a completely manageable 35-25 to finish the season, they'll win 106 games and the Yankees would need to play .667 (42-21) just to tie. Or the Sox might even play .696 ball like they have all season and bury the NYY... Yes, that IS good enough that I'm not even remotely interested in making a movie to bring in another back end starter who offers no real playoff upgrade and very very very little upgrade at all. They're in great shape for the rest of the regular season, as is, with Johnson, Velazquez, Beeks, Pomeranz and with recent better news on Rodriguez, to boot, and Wright potentially down the line... Unless they're going all in for a Syndergard or DeGrom type to pair with Sale in the playoffs (which they likely couldn't pull off even if they wanted to) than there is NO need. Adding a starter is not in their top three needs moving forward. It just isn't. The sky is not falling just because Pomeranz was shaky tonight. He's been shaky all season and they're 40 games over .500... I really don't understand the line of reasoning of the Sox are great. They don't need anything. No improvements anywhere are necessary. Do not get it either Champs. I want the Sox to improve because I *do* think they can compete and possibly win the division and maybe a title. Standing around while everyone is getting better does nothing for you. If you want to go with the logic of thinking "meh it has been fine so far, even with the Eduardo Rodriguez injury," then I don't know what to tell you. Stop falling in love with prospects would be my first guess and last guess.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 24, 2018 22:25:55 GMT -5
So what's the scoop on Kelly? I had no great, high hopes for Pomeranz tonight. But...take away Kelly's utterly craptastic performance and we win this game. Is it his arm/a physical thing....or has it become mental? He is slip sliding down the depth chart fast. Can't put someone with no command in tough situations. Cora said about a week ago that Kelly will have to earn his way back to his old role. Tonight wasn't it.
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Post by danredhawk on Jul 24, 2018 22:43:23 GMT -5
That's the point - they're NOT going to play .500 baseball the rest of the way. But if they did, they'd win 101 and the Yankees would have to go 37-26 just to match them (.587). If the Red Sox play a completely manageable 35-25 to finish the season, they'll win 106 games and the Yankees would need to play .667 (42-21) just to tie. Or the Sox might even play .696 ball like they have all season and bury the NYY... Yes, that IS good enough that I'm not even remotely interested in making a movie to bring in another back end starter who offers no real playoff upgrade and very very very little upgrade at all. They're in great shape for the rest of the regular season, as is, with Johnson, Velazquez, Beeks, Pomeranz and with recent better news on Rodriguez, to boot, and Wright potentially down the line... Unless they're going all in for a Syndergard or DeGrom type to pair with Sale in the playoffs (which they likely couldn't pull off even if they wanted to) than there is NO need. Adding a starter is not in their top three needs moving forward. It just isn't. The sky is not falling just because Pomeranz was shaky tonight. He's been shaky all season and they're 40 games over .500... Nobody says the sky is falling. But if the Sox do play well and go 35-25 what makes you think the Yankees can't go 42-21 to tie? They've been playing close to .667 ball anyways. It's not that big a stretch. Yes, the Sox were 40 games over without Pomeranz. They didn't have to rely on him. Now their starting pitching depth has been whittled away and unless they obtain somebody they're still going to have to rely on him every 5th day. They can't have a guy like Pomeranz pitching every 5th day like this and expect not to run into problems at some point. They don't have to trade the farm to get a backend starter and you don't have to raise the bar that much to pitch better than what Pomeranz will probably give you. If you think Pomeranz is going to pitch fine, then I understand your argument, but if you have doubts, then I don't think it's unreasonable to want to upgrade the back end of the rotation. Besides, they're one injury away from really being depleted in the starting rotation. It doesn't hurt to have insurance. It looks like Fiers is the guy on their radar. He's not great, but he'd be an upgrade. And at this point every little upgrade counts. The Red Sox hardly have this division sewn up, and staying out of the Wild Card game is important. The Red Sox' aim isn't to make the playoffs. It's to win the division and then go all the way from there. And I'd say back end starter is up there as a need along with a high leverage reliever and an upgrade at 2b. I really don't understand the line of reasoning of the Sox are great. They don't need anything. No improvements anywhere are necessary. Yes, a poster or two have absolutely spent the entire season acting as if the sky is falling with every swing and miss, or sub-optimal pitching performance. And been called out on it many times. And defended by you many times. BTW, if the Sox go 35-25 that would be around a .587 clip, I believe. Why are you so sure the Yankees would maintain their .667 pace and catch them while so accepting (and fearful) of the Sox playing more than 100 points below their season pace? Also, FYI, if you assume the two teams split their remaining ten games the NYY would have to play 37-16 ball in the rest of their games to catch Boston (that's .698, whereas Boston would only need to play .600 in the remaking games). I'm sure you noticed I said many times they have more important priorities than starting pitching so don't assume that believing they're in pretty damn good shape means I don't think they should do anything to get better if the opportunity presents itself. I really don't understand the line of reasoning in reading they don't need to make a move for a fifth starter as an implication that no improvements anywhere are necessary... The team would be far better served lengthening the line-up or adding another high-leverage bullpen piece. Both would have much more of an impact on the rest of the season than another 4-5 starter. BTW, the team is now 4-5 in Pomeranz starts, 4-1 in Johnson starts and 3-0 in Velazquez starts. So the back end of the rotation is hardly holding them back. The only tangible difference to adding a backend starter would be a different pitcher (for 4-5 non playoff starts) who hasn't yet given anyone a chance to overreact... So, again, unless they think they're getting a playoff arm they should address OTHER NEEDS. They do not need a pitcher for the regular season. If the Yankees come all the way back to beat them they'll have earned it and oh well, win the WC game...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 22:49:14 GMT -5
For everyone who loves the Pomeranz curveball at this point in time.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 24, 2018 22:54:40 GMT -5
Why can’t we do a bullpen day every fifth day, stretching out Velazquez? The Rays do it all the time.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 22:55:06 GMT -5
Let's post win and loss records as a viable stat and make that out to be worth anything of value and then call out people who have actual data on why Pomeranz isn't good anymore. Just cause.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 24, 2018 23:00:29 GMT -5
I really don't understand the line of reasoning of the Sox are great. They don't need anything. No improvements anywhere are necessary. Do not get it either Champs. I want the Sox to improve because I *do* think they can compete and possibly win the division and maybe a title. Standing around while everyone is getting better does nothing for you. If you want to go with the logic of thinking "meh it has been fine so far, even with the Eduardo Rodriguez injury," then I don't know what to tell you. Stop falling in love with prospects would be my first guess and last guess. Pedrofan, have you ever heard of a term called the motte and bailey? It's something I learned about just recently. It's the rhetorical move of arguing for a hard-to-defend claim (the bailey), and then when challenged retreating to a common sense claim that no one would argue with (the motte), even though it's a different claim. I feel like you do this in every dang thread. In this case, the bailey: "They need to get someone, *anyone* else" to be a fifth starter," and if they don't they will end up "the best second place team in the history of MLB." danredhawk: There is not much to be gained by trading for a fifth starter and it's unlikely to make the difference between first and second place in the division. The motte: "Standing around while everyone is getting better does nothing for you. If you want to go with the logic of thinking "meh it has been fine so far, even with the Eduardo Rodriguez injury," then I don't know what to tell you." You go from claiming they need to get a fifth starter (hard-to-defend claim), and then when that's challenged you say it's crazy not to try to improve the team (obvious, common sense claim that no one argued against). I think this is why you sort of cause people to pull their hair out when you debate with them.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 24, 2018 23:00:53 GMT -5
The Red Sox are 10-2 against the O’s this year. Guess who started both losses? How is that for a stat?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 23:06:45 GMT -5
Do not get it either Champs. I want the Sox to improve because I *do* think they can compete and possibly win the division and maybe a title. Standing around while everyone is getting better does nothing for you. If you want to go with the logic of thinking "meh it has been fine so far, even with the Eduardo Rodriguez injury," then I don't know what to tell you. Stop falling in love with prospects would be my first guess and last guess. Pedrofan, have you ever heard of a term called the motte and bailey? It's something I learned about just recently. It's the rhetorical move of arguing for a hard-to-defend claim (the bailey), and then when challenged retreating to a common sense claim that no one would argue with (the motte), even though it's a different claim. I feel like you do this in every dang thread. In this case, the bailey: "They need to get someone, *anyone* else" to be a fifth starter," and if they don't they will end up "the best second place team in the history of MLB." danredhawk: There is not much to be gained by trading for a fifth starter and it's unlikely to make the difference between first and second place in the division. The motte: "Standing around while everyone is getting better does nothing for you. If you want to go with the logic of thinking "meh it has been fine so far, even with the Eduardo Rodriguez injury," then I don't know what to tell you." You go from claiming they need to get a fifth starter (hard-to-defend claim), and then when that's challenged you say it's crazy not to try to improve the team (obvious, common sense claim that no one argued against). I think this is why you sort of cause people to pull their hair out when you debate with them. I'm not aware of what you said. I have said from the very beginning that the Eduardo Rodriguez injury could cost you the division. This could be true if the Sox get no one or the Sox get someone in the fifth starter spot. I'm arguing that Pomeranz hasn't been a viable major league pitcher all year and that he's been hurt all year with the numerous trips to the DL and loss of velocity. I think the Sox need to do something with the 5th spot and it could cost them, regardless of what other moves are made. Sorry for mixing up my posts, I'll keep it focused on the topic at hand and won't mix up into different arguments. His argument made no sense to begin with however imo. How can a spot in a rotation not be important, especially when you know Eduardo is in question?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2018 23:19:40 GMT -5
Nobody says the sky is falling. But if the Sox do play well and go 35-25 what makes you think the Yankees can't go 42-21 to tie? They've been playing close to .667 ball anyways. It's not that big a stretch. Yes, the Sox were 40 games over without Pomeranz. They didn't have to rely on him. Now their starting pitching depth has been whittled away and unless they obtain somebody they're still going to have to rely on him every 5th day. They can't have a guy like Pomeranz pitching every 5th day like this and expect not to run into problems at some point. They don't have to trade the farm to get a backend starter and you don't have to raise the bar that much to pitch better than what Pomeranz will probably give you. If you think Pomeranz is going to pitch fine, then I understand your argument, but if you have doubts, then I don't think it's unreasonable to want to upgrade the back end of the rotation. Besides, they're one injury away from really being depleted in the starting rotation. It doesn't hurt to have insurance. It looks like Fiers is the guy on their radar. He's not great, but he'd be an upgrade. And at this point every little upgrade counts. The Red Sox hardly have this division sewn up, and staying out of the Wild Card game is important. The Red Sox' aim isn't to make the playoffs. It's to win the division and then go all the way from there. And I'd say back end starter is up there as a need along with a high leverage reliever and an upgrade at 2b. I really don't understand the line of reasoning of the Sox are great. They don't need anything. No improvements anywhere are necessary. Yes, a poster or two have absolutely spent the entire season acting as if the sky is falling with every swing and miss, or sub-optimal pitching performance. And been called out on it many times. And defended by you many times. BTW, if the Sox go 35-25 that would be around a .587 clip, I believe. Why are you so sure the Yankees would maintain their .667 pace and catch them while so accepting (and fearful) of the Sox playing more than 100 points below their season pace? Also, FYI, if you assume the two teams split their remaining ten games the NYY would have to play 37-16 ball in the rest of their games to catch Boston (that's .698, whereas Boston would only need to play .600 in the remaking games). I'm sure you noticed I said many times they have more important priorities than starting pitching so don't assume that believing they're in pretty damn good shape means I don't think they should do anything to get better if the opportunity presents itself. I really don't understand the line of reasoning in reading they don't need to make a move for a fifth starter as an implication that no improvements anywhere are necessary... The team would be far better served lengthening the line-up or adding another high-leverage bullpen piece. Both would have much more of an impact on the rest of the season than another 4-5 starter. BTW, the team is now 4-5 in Pomeranz starts, 4-1 in Johnson starts and 3-0 in Velazquez starts. So the back end of the rotation is hardly holding them back. The only tangible difference to adding a backend starter would be a different pitcher (for 4-5 non playoff starts) who hasn't yet given anyone a chance to overreact... So, again, unless they think they're getting a playoff arm they should address OTHER NEEDS. They do not need a pitcher for the regular season. If the Yankees come all the way back to beat them they'll have earned it and oh well, win the WC game... I'm hopeful the Sox do better than 35-25 down the stretch (that's actually .583 ball so you're pretty close). All I'm trying to tell you is that this season when you have stretches of .500 you get killed in the standings, which is a weird thing. Normally that's not the case. The Yankees played .500 ball for a short 18 game stretch and the Sox ran in circles around them building a 7.5 game lead - in just 18 games! Then the Sox played .500 ball for about the same period while the Yankees were having their 17-1 stretch. So it took all of 18 days to wipe out a 7.5 game lead. Then the two teams stayed virtually dead even as the Yanks took 2 of 3 to re-tie the Sox for 1st. Then the Yanks have had a 3 week stretch of .500 ball which is killing them because the Sox went berserk again and built a 6 game lead. Is it really hard to see a scenario where the Yankees get a starter (not a Cy Young but a guy who gives them a better shot than that kid they just sent down), have a strong pen, and go on another huge run, while the Sox have a cool-down period? That's basically been the pattern of this season. At this point every little edge looms large. To me, the lesson is that if you have a stretch of .500 ball you're in trouble. Hell, even playing .583 ball doesn't guarantee anything and .583 ball is some solid baseball. I think it's going to take about 106 wins to take the division and even that might not do it. I know you're using team records for the starters but it's misleading. The Sox W/L record, is probably best when E-Rod started, and as good as he was he's no Chris Sale whose team W/L record is really good but doesn't truly reflect his greatness. I'm aware and amazed by how well Johnson and Velazquez have held up when they've started. I don't anticipate that to continue although if Johnson could continue to seize the #4 starter's role then that would be a big boost. I think there's a better shot at that than Pomeranz being a solid #5 this season. So while I totally agree with you regarding the need for other upgrades, I'd say upgrading the back end starter only works if you're not giving up too much in a deal so I'm not telling you upgrade the #5 spot at all costs, but if you can get Fiers for a reasonable price, then why not do it? And I'm no huge Fiers fan, but if it doesn't cost too much in talent, then I'd like to see it. I'd even go with Bartolo Colon over what I think Pomeranz will deliver this season.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 23:19:52 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pomerdr01.shtmlwww.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fiersmi01.shtmlThe difference between Fiers and Pomeranz is 2.5 bWar for the season. I'll close this with my last argument. That's 0.8 wins every 9 starts for Fiers (2.8 wins the entire season). That is -0.3 wins for every 8 starts (his totals the entire season). That's the difference of 1 total win better if you got someone like Fiers over Pomeranz from here until the end of the season. The Yankees are 4 back in the loss column. Is that not significant? Not bad for a back of the rotation piece that means nothing (supposedly).
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Post by incandenza on Jul 25, 2018 0:23:40 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pomerdr01.shtmlwww.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fiersmi01.shtmlThe difference between Fiers and Pomeranz is 2.5 bWar for the season. I'll close this with my last argument. That's 0.8 wins every 9 starts for Fiers (2.8 wins the entire season). That is -0.3 wins for every 8 starts (his totals the entire season). That's the difference of 1 total win better if you got someone like Fiers over Pomeranz from here until the end of the season. The Yankees are 4 back in the loss column. Is that not significant? Not bad for a back of the rotation piece that means nothing (supposedly). If Pomeranz continues to suck he's not gonna be in the rotation; Brian Johnson would be your fifth starter, and Johnson and Fiers' stats and projections are basically identical, near as I can tell. If Rodriguez is out for the rest of the season or something, then maybe the situation changes. But that's a different argument - not the one you were making earlier about how the Sox need to trade for another (Brian Johnson-caliber) starter because Pomeranz stinks. EDIT: And come to think of it, I'm kind of confused why Fiers keeps getting mentioned as a solution to anything. He's the epitome of mediocrity. Hector Velazquez has been better, and projects to be better, than Fiers, so even if Rodriguez is out for an extended period they have better solutions in house. In that scenario maybe you want to argue that they should break the bank to get a top line starter, though I'm not sure how they could even if they wanted to; but regardless, I don't see a scenario where adding Fiers makes this team even a little bit better.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 25, 2018 0:39:59 GMT -5
I’m far less concerned with the results, I’m worried about his stuff. Fastball lacked velocity, he didn’t have control of the curve and he continues to be prone to the long ball. Going forward, I wouldn’t want Pomeranz starting any meaningful games, he could be a good weapon out of the bullpen though if used correctly.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 25, 2018 1:08:16 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pomerdr01.shtmlwww.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fiersmi01.shtmlThe difference between Fiers and Pomeranz is 2.5 bWar for the season. I'll close this with my last argument. That's 0.8 wins every 9 starts for Fiers (2.8 wins the entire season). That is -0.3 wins for every 8 starts (his totals the entire season). That's the difference of 1 total win better if you got someone like Fiers over Pomeranz from here until the end of the season. The Yankees are 4 back in the loss column. Is that not significant? Not bad for a back of the rotation piece that means nothing (supposedly). If Pomeranz continues to suck he's not gonna be in the rotation; Brian Johnson would be your fifth starter, and Johnson and Fiers' stats and projections are basically identical, near as I can tell. If Rodriguez is out for the rest of the season or something, then maybe the situation changes. But that's a different argument - not the one you were making earlier about how the Sox need to trade for another (Brian Johnson-caliber) starter because Pomeranz stinks. EDIT: And come to think of it, I'm kind of confused why Fiers keeps getting mentioned as a solution to anything. He's the epitome of mediocrity. Hector Velazquez has been better, and projects to be better, than Fiers, so even if Rodriguez is out for an extended period they have better solutions in house. In that scenario maybe you want to argue that they should break the bank to get a top line starter, though I'm not sure how they could even if they wanted to; but regardless, I don't see a scenario where adding Fiers makes this team even a little bit better. Velazquez has been good, but not 2.8 bWAR good and he's not even stretched out, which is something you keep missing. You are losing a lot of innings in the bullpen if Velazquez is starting versus relieving too (can't piggy back guys like Johnson and Fiers). Rick Porcello has been worth 2.5 bWAR in comparison to Fiers 2.8 bWAR. Price has been worth 2 bWAR this season too. So if Fiers is mediocre, then what are they? Edit- You're looking for innings versus anything else. You have Brian Johnson going 5 innings at a time. If you start Velazquez right now, you're maxing him out at 4 innings right now maybe. That's 9 innings in one turn of the rotation alone that the bullpen has to account for and you have no Velazquez in the bullpen anymore. The one reason why I want Fiers in the first place is because he won't cost much via trade.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 25, 2018 1:20:18 GMT -5
The Sox have pitching problems. It was obvious tonight. Something has happened to Kelly and he cannot be counted on, at least for a while. Pomeranz is not going to be in the rotation. We don't know about Rodriguez. The Yankees got a player they didn't need to keep him away from the Sox but they haven't gotten the player they really need, as do the Sox, a top-flight SP.
I am relieved the Sox did not get Britton because he would have cost too much and there is uncertainty about him. I continue to believe the Sox should make a play for a top-flight SP even if it depletes the farm system even more.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 25, 2018 5:40:03 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Swihart should be getting starting reps at the catching position, especially after last night's game after considering this. He probably won't get more than a start, maybe 2 a week however.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 25, 2018 6:44:08 GMT -5
I can't wait until Dave Dombrowski ticks off half the message board in a week. I'll have the popcorn ready. Ah, proof that you are a troll. I knew it.
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Post by bosox81 on Jul 25, 2018 6:44:43 GMT -5
Have you looked at the list of top sox prospects lately? What kind of trade package do you propose to make?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 25, 2018 7:36:30 GMT -5
Why can’t we do a bullpen day every fifth day, stretching out Velazquez? The Rays do it all the time. I have mentioned this about 100 times. Maybe even Pomeranz would do better if he knew he was only going 2 or 3. But between Velazquez and guys like Beeks from AAA the Sox can weather the storm until ERod gets back. IMO what the Sox can get in a deadline deal for a SP isn't going to be much of an upgrade over what they have so unless you can steal someone why bother.
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