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8/7-8/9 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Series Thread
ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,008
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 8, 2018 3:11:33 GMT -5
This bullpen is a mess though. You're basically throwing darts from the 5-7 innings if the starter doesn't have a long start. The 8th and 9th innings are sometimes shaky too (with Kimbrel and Barnes). The Sox are going to need a starter to come into the bullpen come October. That is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR at this point. At some point I hope Wright comes back to even give him a shot at a set up role before the end of the season with the way this inconsistent non strike throwing/hard contact giving up bullpen is going. It's either that or give Lakins a shot in September if he's shoving in AAA for the last month of the season. The Sox bullpen is the 4th best in baseball by WAR and FIP, 5th best by ERA, and 2nd best by WPA. They are mediocre at BB/9 (17th), but they're 4th best at hard contact %. Looking forward to see what totally different argument you're going to claim to have been making all along, now that the facts are on the table. The bullpen is first in MLB in bWAR (fWAR for pitchers is atrocious, indefensible junk: "we can't measure an important part of pitching skill with perfect accuracy, so lets not try to measure it at all.")
Setup relief has only cost the team two games they should have won, and one of those was Carson Smith on opening day (with an assist by Kelly). The other was Matt Barnes in Seattle on June 15 (Barnes also contributed to Kimbrel's blown save against the MFY's on 6/8, but Kimbrel had the power to render that off-night moot).
E-Rod will be back soon, and either he or Price will be in the pen in the offseason. That seems evident because:
1) Eovaldi is very clearly the #2 starter. Even with his slow start post-TJ, and inflated numbers due to a pair of insane slow hooks, he's still second on the Sox (and better than anyone on the Yankees) in both xwOBA, which is the deepest stat we have, and WPA/GS, which is the most results-oriented. And it's not that close.
2) Given the lineups we face and the lack of a LHR in the pen, you'll use Porcello (or Wright if he gets the magic back and stays healthy) over Price as the 4th starter if E-Rod returns to form, and if he doesn't quite come all the way back, Price and E-Rod swap places.
Thornburg had his first unimpressive outing in a while, but I didn't see any cause for concern. I am much more concerned with Kimbrel as the closer than I am with Barnes, Price or E-Rod, Thornburg as setup, Hembree and Brasier or Kelly as middle relief (and the latter could end up in a setup role), and Wright as long man (with Johnson, an improving Pomeranz, or Velazquez as options if he can't come back).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 8, 2018 3:27:45 GMT -5
The Sox bullpen is the 4th best in baseball by WAR and FIP, 5th best by ERA, and 2nd best by WPA. They are mediocre at BB/9 (17th), but they're 4th best at hard contact %. Looking forward to see what totally different argument you're going to claim to have been making all along, now that the facts are on the table. The bullpen is first in MLB in bWAR (fWAR for pitchers is atrocious, indefensible junk: "we can't measure an important part of pitching skill with perfect accuracy, so lets not try to measure it at all.") Thornburg had his first unimpressive outing in a while, but I didn't see any cause for concern. I am much more concerned with Kimbrel as the closer than I am with Barnes, Price or E-Rod, Thornburg as setup, Hembree and Brasier or Kelly as middle relief (and the latter could end up in a setup role), and Wright as long man (with Johnson, an improving Pomeranz, or Velazquez as options if he can't come back).
First of all, where is this improving Pomeranz coming from? He's been the same bad pitcher all year. Are you just hoping for increased velocity and improved command/control all of a sudden out of no where? Maybe his velocity increases by a tick in the bullpen, but this bullpen doesn't need another guy who comes in and walks half the batter he sees, not to mention another homerun prone guy in Pomeranz. The Sox have a abundance of them. Secondly, Thornburg is inconsistent and could be all year coming off of major injury. I don't have the Brooksbaseball numbers to back this up yet, but Thornburg was hitting 91-93 a lot in this game. His average velocity seemed down. That is the concern. He will look great one week, and then get shelled for a few outings with iffy command (within the strikezone, hence the homeruns and hard contact given up) and down velocity in a couple of appearances. You need consistency if you want a good set up arm.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 8, 2018 4:26:45 GMT -5
The Sox bullpen is the 4th best in baseball by WAR and FIP, 5th best by ERA, and 2nd best by WPA. They are mediocre at BB/9 (17th), but they're 4th best at hard contact %. Looking forward to see what totally different argument you're going to claim to have been making all along, now that the facts are on the table. The bullpen is first in MLB in bWAR (fWAR for pitchers is atrocious, indefensible junk: "we can't measure an important part of pitching skill with perfect accuracy, so lets not try to measure it at all.") Setup relief has only cost the team two games they should have won, and one of those was Carson Smith on opening day (with an assist by Kelly). The other was Matt Barnes in Seattle on June 15 (Barnes also contributed to Kimbrel's blown save against the MFY's on 6/8, but Kimbrel had the power to render that off-night moot). E-Rod will be back soon, and either he or Price will be in the pen in the offseason. That seems evident because: 1) Eovaldi is very clearly the #2 starter. Even with his slow start post-TJ, and inflated numbers due to a pair of insane slow hooks, he's still second on the Sox (and better than anyone on the Yankees) in both xwOBA, which is the deepest stat we have, and WPA/GS, which is the most results-oriented. And it's not that close. 2) Given the lineups we face and the lack of a LHR in the pen, you'll use Porcello (or Wright if he gets the magic back and stays healthy) over Price as the 4th starter if E-Rod returns to form, and if he doesn't quite come all the way back, Price and E-Rod swap places. Thornburg had his first unimpressive outing in a while, but I didn't see any cause for concern. I am much more concerned with Kimbrel as the closer than I am with Barnes, Price or E-Rod, Thornburg as setup, Hembree and Brasier or Kelly as middle relief (and the latter could end up in a setup role), and Wright as long man (with Johnson, an improving Pomeranz, or Velazquez as options if he can't come back).
After 2 starts Eovaldi is clearly the #2 starter? I don't think so It's Sale Porcelll Price Eovaldi is currently #4 and is being given the opportunity to compete for a playoff roster spot.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 8, 2018 5:08:07 GMT -5
Just tallied all of the total numbers for the bullpen against all 3 teams of Houston, Oakland, and New York in 2018.
Here's the numbers total against New York-
38 1/3 innings. 39 hits. 23 WALKS!!!! 27 EARNED RUNS!!! (around 6.30 ERA!!!!)
Here's the tallies against all three of Oakland, New York, and Houston.
64 2/3 innings. 61 hits. 34 WALKS!!!! 36 EARNED RUNS!!! (around a 5 ERA!!!).
Okay I looked up the pitching logs in each game. Haley and Walden threw for 5 2/3 innings against the Yankees. They gave up 11 hits, 4 walks, 7 earned runs.
Okay so let's just remove their numbers altogether because they weren't throwing high leverage innings and they stink.
Here's the tallies against the Yankees- 32 2/3 innings. 28 hits. 19 WALKS!!! 20 earned runs!!!!! Around a 5.50 ERA!!!!
Here's the tallies total removing Walden and Haley against all 3 teams. 59 innings. 50 hits. 30 WALKS!!!! 29 earned runs. 4.42 ERA.
Tell me this bullpen isn't suspect, especially against the better teams in the AL. Go ahead and throw your season stats at me as a whole. You'd be lying to yourself if you didn't question this bullpen in the playoffs.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 8, 2018 5:11:03 GMT -5
Eovaldi is currently #4 and is being given the opportunity to compete for a playoff roster.
If Eovaldi is not a starter in the post season then he is clearly going to pitch out of the bullpen in the 7th and 8th innings. Hembree, Thornburg and Kelly are more likely to be competing for a playoff roster spot in September.
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Post by patford on Aug 8, 2018 7:03:45 GMT -5
For what it's worth the guy people say the Sox really needed and should have traded for blew a save last night for the Yankees against the mighty White Sox.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 8, 2018 8:03:38 GMT -5
The only good news from the people struggling is that there contracts are up at the end of the year. Pomerez, Kelly. Kimbrel also.
I hope they don’t get sucked into a bidding war with Kimbrel. I don’t get Pomerez at all. He is lucky he only gave up two runs. The Red Sox have a team on a mission. Wow 80 wins sweet.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2018 8:46:03 GMT -5
I think I might have to revise my initial season thought that this Red Sox is a 95 - 100 win team. (Where are the darn italics?!)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2018 8:52:31 GMT -5
The Sox bullpen is the 4th best in baseball by WAR and FIP, 5th best by ERA, and 2nd best by WPA. They are mediocre at BB/9 (17th), but they're 4th best at hard contact %. Looking forward to see what totally different argument you're going to claim to have been making all along, now that the facts are on the table. 2 arms have been giving up hard contact in Thornburg and Workman. Maybe they are the outliers but they are included in the bullpen, that's why I made the claim about the hard contact in the bullpen comment. Also, if your bullpen can't be trusted to throw strikes in close games, then what do you really have here? Who are you going to trust come playoff time? There is a difference between a season bullpen and a playoff bullpen, and Dave Dombrowski has even been quoted to agree with that. The facts are on the table. They can't throw strikes half the time and this is the bullpen you want come playoff time? Nope give me Price, Wright, or maybe Lakins in the bullpen. Someone who can throw strikes outside of Kimbrel, Barnes, and maybe Brasier/Kelly come October. We have no idea if Wright will be able to pitch healthy and effective or even pitch at all. And Lakins could be great, but we don't know that either. Either way he is a gamble. Unless he opens eyes the way Maddox did last year it's hard to see him taking a key role in the pen. He hasn't had the luxury of a 3 month tryout that Brasier is getting right now. I'm not comfortable with the pen either, but the most important guy in the pen IS ultimately Kimbrel. Like I said, if he isn't at the top of his game resembling the guy he was last year, there could be some heartbreaking losses in October. I'm hoping Levangie or Bannister spot something and get Kimbrel squared away. I think the effect of a dominant closer is huge. I remember Fouke in 04, Papelbon in 07, and Koji in 2013. When they came in the game was essentially over. You basically just counted the outs between the starter and the closer. Other than Barnes I'm not sure how they cobble those outs to Kimbrel and I would have liked another top notch option (mine and Dombrowski's best option Herrera got knocked around last outing), but if Cora is judicious about mixing and matching the relievers he has they could probably survive getting the ball to Kimbrel. They just have to make sure that Kimbrel is in lockdown mode. As it is I'm not overly comfortable with him coming into the game in the 8th, but he has to be shutdown in the 9th or there are going to be problems.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 8, 2018 8:57:44 GMT -5
2 arms have been giving up hard contact in Thornburg and Workman. Maybe they are the outliers but they are included in the bullpen, that's why I made the claim about the hard contact in the bullpen comment. Also, if your bullpen can't be trusted to throw strikes in close games, then what do you really have here? Who are you going to trust come playoff time? There is a difference between a season bullpen and a playoff bullpen, and Dave Dombrowski has even been quoted to agree with that. The facts are on the table. They can't throw strikes half the time and this is the bullpen you want come playoff time? Nope give me Price, Wright, or maybe Lakins in the bullpen. Someone who can throw strikes outside of Kimbrel, Barnes, and maybe Brasier/Kelly come October. We have no idea if Wright will be able to pitch healthy and effective or even pitch at all. And Lakins could be great, but we don't know that either. Either way he is a gamble. Unless he opens eyes the way Maddox did last year it's hard to see him taking a key role in the pen. He hasn't had the luxury of a 3 month tryout that Brasier is getting right now. I'm not comfortable with the pen either, but the most important guy in the pen IS ultimately Kimbrel. Like I said, if he isn't at the top of his game resembling the guy he was last year, there could be some heartbreaking losses in October. I'm hoping Levangie or Bannister spot something and get Kimbrel squared away. I think the effect of a dominant closer is huge. I remember Fouke in 04, Papelbon in 07, and Koji in 2013. When they came in the game was essentially over. You basically just counted the outs between the starter and the closer. Other than Barnes I'm not sure how they cobble those outs to Kimbrel and I would have liked another top notch option (mine and Dombrowski's best option Herrera got knocked around last outing), but if Cora is judicious about mixing and matching the relievers he has they could probably survive getting the ball to Kimbrel. They just have to make sure that Kimbrel is in lockdown mode. As it is I'm not overly comfortable with him coming into the game in the 8th, but he has to be shutdown in the 9th or there are going to be problems. Kimbrel is annoying right now, but I think he'll be good once the playoffs start. Probably just a blip, but nothing more than that. The homerun problem is real though, so are the walks, but I suspect that his walk total should lower as the season goes along a little. At least he's unhittable outside of the homeruns. Barnes is sort of in the same boat with more walks and no homerun issues. I love what Braiser has brought so far, but he is still a unknown really. Kelly is a coin flip. Everything outside of that besides Hembree in low leverage spots is a big gamble in this bullpen imo.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 8, 2018 9:12:47 GMT -5
I was quite impressed with how Kelly looked last night other than that dumb throwing error he made. He was throwing 100 consistently and painting the upper corners of the zone.
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 8, 2018 9:13:22 GMT -5
I understand the bullpen’s not perfect and it would be nice if they were, but you guys understand that only one other team’s relievers has more positively impacted the team’s chances of winning the game, right? Only the Athletics’ bullpen has been more valuable than the Red Sox’ this year.
Not saying they are the second best group in baseball by any means, but maybe we allow them an off night once and a while.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2018 9:43:46 GMT -5
I understand the bullpen’s not perfect and it would be nice if they were, but you guys understand that only one other team’s relievers has more positively impacted the team’s chances of winning the game, right? Only the Athletics’ bullpen has been more valuable than the Red Sox’ this year. Not saying they are the second best group in baseball by any means, but maybe we allow them an off night once and a while. I think the contenders have pretty good bullpens, though. Houston upgraded their bullpen in a disgusting way. Or at least the removal of Ken Giles was an upgrade. I think they added Pressley as well. I think Rondon and Hughes are having very good years and I think Devenski is doing alright? The Indians have improved their pen although they paid a terrible price to do so. I think theirs hinges on Andrew Miller's health. I don't think Allen has been that good this year. The Yankees still have a strong pen, although it is highly questionable if Britton will be much of a difference maker. I think when it comes to Sox/Yanks bullpens the venue totally matters. I wouldn't think the Yankee meltdowns would occur at The Toilet, but at Fenway Park, well our disbelieving eyes don't lie.
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Post by h11233 on Aug 8, 2018 10:00:13 GMT -5
Just tallied all of the total numbers for the bullpen against all 3 teams of Houston, Oakland, and New York in 2018. Here's the numbers total against New York- 38 1/3 innings. 39 hits. 23 WALKS!!!! 27 EARNED RUNS!!! (around 6.30 ERA!!!!) Here's the tallies against all three of Oakland, New York, and Houston. 64 2/3 innings. 61 hits. 34 WALKS!!!! 36 EARNED RUNS!!! (around a 5 ERA!!!). Okay I looked up the pitching logs in each game. Haley and Walden threw for 5 2/3 innings against the Yankees. They gave up 11 hits, 4 walks, 7 earned runs. Okay so let's just remove their numbers altogether because they weren't throwing high leverage innings and they stink. Here's the tallies against the Yankees- 32 2/3 innings. 28 hits. 19 WALKS!!! 20 earned runs!!!!! Around a 5.50 ERA!!!! Here's the tallies total removing Walden and Haley against all 3 teams. 59 innings. 50 hits. 30 WALKS!!!! 29 earned runs. 4.42 ERA. Tell me this bullpen isn't suspect, especially against the better teams in the AL. Go ahead and throw your season stats at me as a whole. You'd be lying to yourself if you didn't question this bullpen in the playoffs. I think you're being a little disingenuous, maybe it's unintentional. First, you show the numbers vs. NYY individually because it looks bad, but you don't show individual numbers vs OAK/HOU. They have about a 3ERA vs those teams, which isn't bad at all. Secondly, you don't mention any numbers against SEA, who they've been pretty good against. Third, you were willing to take out the Walden/Haley numbers, but not other people who will either not be in the playoff bullpen, or will be strictly mop up duty... and a few of their outings really skew the numbers. Specifically: Velazquez and Hembree had 3 horrific outings vs NYY early in the season that account for 3.1IP and 8ER. Take those out also, and the bullpen has a sub-4ERA vs NYY. Of the guys that figure to be important in the postseason bullpen, Barnes had a couple bad outings vs NYY early in the season (4/11 and 5/9) and Kimbrel was also bad on 5/9 and of course we all remember what happened the other day. Other than that, the key guys have been stellar.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 8, 2018 10:07:38 GMT -5
Delicious. Britton blows a two run lead in the bottom 10th to tanking Chi Sox - 3-3. MFY....blow the lead. They have the hangover! Yanks' big deadline acquisition wielding a fearsome 5.07 FIP/3.98 ERA on the season. Cashman managed to actively make his bullpen worse with that move. Herrera, the other bullpen guy Dave targeted, also blew a game for the Nationals yesterday. I think if Dave could've reasonably upgraded our pen he would have, but come on now, it it still pretty good.
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Post by jchang on Aug 8, 2018 10:15:12 GMT -5
If we only read the comments, its hard to seem the team as playoff competitive, never mind a historically great season
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2018 10:17:43 GMT -5
Yanks' big deadline acquisition wielding a fearsome 5.07 FIP/3.98 ERA on the season. Cashman managed to actively make his bullpen worse with that move. Herrera, the other bullpen guy Dave targeted, also blew a game for the Nationals yesterday. I think if Dave could've reasonably upgraded our pen he would have, but come on now, it it still pretty good. Dombrowski was clearly targeting high end relievers. The Sox quality is more questionable than their quantity. In other words the Sox have two high end relievers and a ton of guys who are all viable, reasonably decent to good pitchers (for a lack of a better term). Other staffs don't have the quantity of viable, reasonably decent to good pitchers. They have a lack of those options and have a lot of lousy relievers, so the bad teams traded the viable, reasonably decent to good pitchers that they had and DDo didn't consider them upgrades. I can get him not wanting to trade say a Lakins for one of these types of relievers. The Sox have these types of relievers in spades. And that has been one of the advantages the Sox pen has had. They didn't really have any "torches" (again, for lack of a better word). I remember the Sox having Tim Lollar on their 1986 club. He was a "torch". He was lit up all the time. For more recent fans, perhaps you remember Ramiro Mendoza, who was on the 2004 ALCS roster. This team didn't have that. They would bring in interchangeable parts like Velazquez, Hembree, Workman, Brasier, Kelly, etc. Other teams had to go to their "torches" and that's where the Sox have the big bullpen advantage. I think the good clubs have less "torches" in the pen, although after a season of being quite good, Jonathan Holder provided an excellent illustration of what a torch looks like this past weekend. But what the Sox lacked was another high end reliever. That's why Dombrowski targeted Herrera, who is still high end, although he didn't pitch well last time out. Now Dombrowski is hoping that Thornburg can come back to being the high end reliever he was when the Sox got him. He is their best hope for that guy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 8, 2018 10:41:12 GMT -5
If we only read the comments, its hard to seem the team as playoff competitive, never mind a historically great season Yes it is in many ways! Like two 100 win teams in the same division and 3 hundred win teams in the AL. That's what we worry about, the path of just getting to the World Series might be the hardest ever! Our bullpen against the Yankees and Astros is a legit concern.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2018 11:03:36 GMT -5
If we only read the comments, its hard to seem the team as playoff competitive, never mind a historically great season Yes it is in many ways! Like two 100 win teams in the same division and 3 hundred win teams in the AL. That's what we worry about, the path of just getting to the World Series might be the hardest ever! Our bullpen against the Yankees and Astros is a legit concern. Exactly. The year the Yankees won 114 in the regular season the second best team in the league was actually the 92-70 Red Sox. That's a 22 game gulf between the 1998 Yankees and the second best team in the league. 92-70 is a good record and there have been teams to do worse and win the Series, but the talent level between 114-48 and 92-70 is huge. This year the Sox might just go out and win 110 games (my new "range" for the Sox is 105-110 which is absolutely nutty and they could even exceed that), but the Yankees and Astros should exceed 100 with room to spare. Even the Indians and A's should exceed 90 plus wins. There will be no 87 win team in the AL Playoffs this year. And in the NL it's completely opposite. Everybody is so bunched up. The Cubs could win 92 games and could have the highest win total in the league.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 8, 2018 11:17:41 GMT -5
That's why if I'm DD I see if I can get a bullpen arm on the cheap by August 31st just to throw into the mix. I'd also like to see Shawaryn and Lakins in September. Shawaryn might not be popular but I've always liked letting young pitchers get their feet wet in the bullpen first. He'll have to be close to his inning limit then and I'd love to see how his stuff plays up in short stints.
Can't hurt to have options when innings look like a major issue for Thornburg and Braiser. Kelly always looks great till he doesn't.
All of our starters coming back might safe us, because an ERod or Price in the bullpen could be huge.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2018 11:26:15 GMT -5
Does David Price's fastball play up in the bullpen for October if the rotation is Sale/Porcello/Eovaldi/E-Rod?
I worry about high leverage relief on this team (no, really?). Last year Price was dominating out of the pen. Would his fastball be as good or did he lose something off his fastball between last offseason and this year?
Because if Price is like he was out of the pen last year, then he's the guy I want getting the ball for the 7th and/or 8th innings with Barnes being the other option.
Of course this also depends on E-Rod coming back healthy enough to give them his usual quality 5 and 2/3 innings.
I just have issues at the moment saying that Eovaldi should be in the pen. He's just too damn efficient and I think he can throw 7 plus innings.
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Post by manfred on Aug 8, 2018 11:30:53 GMT -5
That's why if I'm DD I see if I can get a bullpen arm on the cheap by August 31st just to throw into the mix. I'd also like to see Shawaryn and Lakins in September. Shawaryn might not be popular but I've always liked letting young pitchers get their feet wet in the bullpen first. He'll have to be close to his inning limit then and I'd love to see how his stuff plays up in short stints. Can't hurt to have options when innings look like a major issue for Thornburg and Braiser. Kelly always looks great till he doesn't. All of our starters coming back might safe us, because an ERod or Price in the bullpen could be huge. Shawaryn and Lakins in September makes sense to me, since the Sox may have things wrapped up. I’m not sure it is one of them, but someone could be this year’s Workman... even Workman! I reserve judgment on the playoffs. Guys like Barnes or Kelly could go on a tear and dominate. I have a Keith Foulke jersey in recognition of how out of his head he was in the postseason (he was obviously very good before, too, but he was a superhero later).
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 8, 2018 11:33:37 GMT -5
These teams have the same concerns. Did anyone notice Chapman the other night? He should be hunting, but I think it is a toss up if something will happen.
I believe in this team. It is the best team in the league, might be the best team I have seen. With a starter going to bullpen in playoffs, maybe Wright, improved performance.....we don't have to panic.
More worried about home field for playoffs...big edge for us.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 8, 2018 11:35:52 GMT -5
Yes it is in many ways! Like two 100 win teams in the same division and 3 hundred win teams in the AL. That's what we worry about, the path of just getting to the World Series might be the hardest ever! Our bullpen against the Yankees and Astros is a legit concern. Exactly. The year the Yankees won 114 in the regular season the second best team in the league was actually the 92-70 Red Sox. That's a 22 game gulf between the 1998 Yankees and the second best team in the league. 92-70 is a good record and there have been teams to do worse and win the Series, but the talent level between 114-48 and 92-70 is huge. This year the Sox might just go out and win 110 games (my new "range" for the Sox is 105-110 which is absolutely nutty and they could even exceed that), but the Yankees and Astros should exceed 100 with room to spare. Even the Indians and A's should exceed 90 plus wins. There will be no 87 win team in the AL Playoffs this year. And in the NL it's completely opposite. Everybody is so bunched up. The Cubs could win 92 games and could have the highest win total in the league. The Yankees are on pace to win 101 games. The Sox 114. But your Sox have a new range for you or 105-110 and the Yankees will win 100 with room to spare? Houston’s on pace for 103
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Post by patford on Aug 8, 2018 11:40:12 GMT -5
A lot of bullpens are leaky right now. Not only was Chapman awful the other night it is said he has some sort of knee injury. Odds are that knee problem gets worse. One thing is certain. If the Sox had traded for Britton people here would be in agony at the moment.
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