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2018 Patriots Season Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 21, 2019 15:56:21 GMT -5
Brady is great and I didn’t want to say this last night and be a buzz kill, but the Patriots dominated over half of that game and the reason the Chiefs were in it was because he wasn’t playing great. He played great in the 4th and OT which is what he does and why he is the best that ever played the game but that game should have been a blow out the way the defense was playing and the way they moved the ball on the ground. Also, if Dee Ford wasn’t lined up offsides we’d be talking about the Brady pick to end the game that was a “deflection” but really just a bad throw. This isn’t a Brady hate rant; it’s just reality of what went down. It’s why him and Belichick are a great team. Brady our played Maholmes last night and our coaches out coached them; it’s why we continue to make teams with more talent look inferior. And I can’t stress enough how great, outside the throw to Gronk, that Brady was when it was all on the line. Even the runs he gets credit for reading the defense. He was at his HOF best. I just don't agree. It's like if he doesn't play perfect you get down on him. No QB against a good team can play perfect all game long! The first half was all about running, forcing the Chiefs to change personnel so late in the game would be easier. They let it rip at the end of the first half and he threw that near perfect pass to Dorsett. The interception was the result of him selling the run as the announcer said, he never saw the LB move. It's like you blame Brady for the brillant game plan. We didn't come out slinging it on purpose. |
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Post by costpet on Jan 21, 2019 16:27:10 GMT -5
So the Patriots are going to the Super Bowl again. That shouldn’t surprise anyone. Last April it came out on their schedule.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 16:46:55 GMT -5
Brady is great and I didn’t want to say this last night and be a buzz kill, but the Patriots dominated over half of that game and the reason the Chiefs were in it was because he wasn’t playing great. He played great in the 4th and OT which is what he does and why he is the best that ever played the game but that game should have been a blow out the way the defense was playing and the way they moved the ball on the ground. Also, if Dee Ford wasn’t lined up offsides we’d be talking about the Brady pick to end the game that was a “deflection” but really just a bad throw. This isn’t a Brady hate rant; it’s just reality of what went down. It’s why him and Belichick are a great team. Brady our played Maholmes last night and our coaches out coached them; it’s why we continue to make teams with more talent look inferior. And I can’t stress enough how great, outside the throw to Gronk, that Brady was when it was all on the line. Even the runs he gets credit for reading the defense. He was at his HOF best. I just don't agree. It's like if he doesn't play perfect you get down on him. No QB against a good team can play perfect all game long! The first half was all about running, forcing the Chiefs to change personnel so late in the game would be easier. They let it rip at the end of the first half and he threw that near perfect pass to Dorsett. The interception was the result of him selling the run as the announcer said, he never saw the LB move. It's like you blame Brady for the brillant game plan. We didn't come out slinging it on purpose. Whoa sensitive police... so you admit he didn’t play great all game but get mad at me for pointing out the same just with a few more specifics? If Dee Ford isn’t offsides he would have had 3 picks and a 63 QB rating in a loss on the road... fact |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 21, 2019 17:15:12 GMT -5
The league is bad. There really isn't any other conclusion to reach when you have one team with this kind of sustained success. The people tasked with beating them are woefully inadequate. No way you would see this in the old days. There might have been only a few teams the had a real chance, but they wouldn't have allowed this to happen. So, you think the Patriots would've had a harder time if you eliminate the salary cap and have less teams? Belichick would get to groom players for their entire careers while not worrying about maintaining the culture with the constant roster turnover, and wouldn't have to worry about getting his best players poached for top dollar. This team would get Akiem Hicks, Cooks, Chandler Jones, etc. No team gets more talent poached than the Patriots. It was so much easier to sustain success in the NFL during the 70s-90s. The Patriots didn't win a single title between the 04-05 and 2014-2015 seasons, so it seems like things were fairly competitive for a while, right? Or is the league only bad when the Patriots win? As far as the "people tasked with beating them", there's Peyton Manning, who did beat them three times in the AFCCG. If not for Tom Brady and the Patriots it's a lock that Peyton Manning would currently be viewed as the GOAT. Ben Roethlisberger has routinely been tasked with beating them, and while he's a notch or two below Peyton he's a two time SB winner and a clear HOF talent. Moving on, the Patriots have lost three SB's and have been in one possession contests every single time, which is hard to do without strong competition. For perspective, the Red Sox have been in four World Series recently and have lost 3 games total in those best of seven contests. Were the Red Sox just that good, or has the NL simply produced woefully inadequate teams? If you're going to argue the Patriots dominance is a product of an inferior league you'd by default believe the Red Sox dominant WS wins are just a product of inadequate NL competition. Back in the old days there surely would've been an 86 Mets or 75 Reds that would've beat the 2013 or 07 team, right? The only conclusion to reach is Bill Belichick's the most valuable person in sports. The amount of time he's invested in this operation has created a nearly perfectly run team. Despite that, most years, the NFL finds a team that actually can beat them somehow, and even then it's by the thinnest of margins with very few exceptions. Trying to discredit this Patriots run in any way is like trying to discredit the intelligence of Einstein, or the musical acumen of Beethoven, or the wealth of Bezos. The NFL is the only pro football league in the world. There are just over 1500 jobs out of Ten of thousands of would be applicants. Pointing out that a couple of Hall of Famers have beaten them is not seeing the forest for the trees. Football isn't that complicated. It has changed into a passing league for sure, but none of these teams run things that other teams don't know. It is a copycat league, by admission from all people who participate. I never played the game, so I don't know what it is like to put together a winning strategy, but I have been watching for years and I conclude that, as great as Belichick is (and by extension Brady - all due credit to both), the problem is their opponents preparation and execution against them in playoff games. You look that the 7 of 8 quarters this year, against 2 - 12 win teams. It is embarrassing. If not for the Chiefs 4th quarter, it would be disgusting. As rjp mentions, the system isn't set up for this kind of success. Ipsofacto, this should not be happening, particularly at this point in the league's evolution. There isn't a discernible talent difference ( they do appear to get very lucky at times), they don't have more resources than other teams, they don't play all their games at home or play them 11 on 10. I stand by my reasoning, the people who are supposed to beat them, have failed in historic fashion, brought on by leadership issues for the other franchises. I can confidently say, if Belichick coached when I was growing up, against Knoll, Shula, Landry etc..etc.... this shit would not happen |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 17:26:13 GMT -5
So, you think the Patriots would've had a harder time if you eliminate the salary cap and have less teams? Belichick would get to groom players for their entire careers while not worrying about maintaining the culture with the constant roster turnover, and wouldn't have to worry about getting his best players poached for top dollar. This team would get Akiem Hicks, Cooks, Chandler Jones, etc. No team gets more talent poached than the Patriots. It was so much easier to sustain success in the NFL during the 70s-90s. The Patriots didn't win a single title between the 04-05 and 2014-2015 seasons, so it seems like things were fairly competitive for a while, right? Or is the league only bad when the Patriots win? As far as the "people tasked with beating them", there's Peyton Manning, who did beat them three times in the AFCCG. If not for Tom Brady and the Patriots it's a lock that Peyton Manning would currently be viewed as the GOAT. Ben Roethlisberger has routinely been tasked with beating them, and while he's a notch or two below Peyton he's a two time SB winner and a clear HOF talent. Moving on, the Patriots have lost three SB's and have been in one possession contests every single time, which is hard to do without strong competition. For perspective, the Red Sox have been in four World Series recently and have lost 3 games total in those best of seven contests. Were the Red Sox just that good, or has the NL simply produced woefully inadequate teams? If you're going to argue the Patriots dominance is a product of an inferior league you'd by default believe the Red Sox dominant WS wins are just a product of inadequate NL competition. Back in the old days there surely would've been an 86 Mets or 75 Reds that would've beat the 2013 or 07 team, right? The only conclusion to reach is Bill Belichick's the most valuable person in sports. The amount of time he's invested in this operation has created a nearly perfectly run team. Despite that, most years, the NFL finds a team that actually can beat them somehow, and even then it's by the thinnest of margins with very few exceptions. Trying to discredit this Patriots run in any way is like trying to discredit the intelligence of Einstein, or the musical acumen of Beethoven, or the wealth of Bezos. The NFL is the only pro football league in the world. There are just over 1500 jobs out of Ten of thousands of would be applicants. Pointing out that a couple of Hall of Famers have beaten them is not seeing the for the trees. Football isn't that complicated. It has changed into a passing league for sure, but none of these teams run things that other teams don't know. It is a copycat league, by admission from all people who participate. I never played the game, so I don't know what it is like to put together a winning strategy, but I have been watching for years and I conclude that, as great as Belichick is (and by extension Brady - all due credit to both), the problem is their opponents preparation and execution against them in playoff games. You look that the 7 of 8 quarters this year, against 2 - 12 win teams. It is embarrassing. If not for the Chiefs 4th quarter, it would be disgusting. As rjp mentions, the system isn't set up for this kind of success. Ipsofacto, this should not be happening, particularly at this point in the league's evolution. There isn't a discernible talent difference ( they do appear to get very lucky at times), they don't have more resources than other teams, they don't play all their games at home or play them 11 on 10. I stand by my reasoning, the people who are supposed to beat them, have failed in historic fashion, brought on by leadership issues for the other franchises. I can confidently say, if Belichick coached when I was growing up, against Knoll, Shula, Landry etc..etc.... this shit would not happen Here’s the thing though... back then things were different. Players now are entitled, rich and you can’t practice like you used to. The fact that Belichick year after year gets the team to buy in and take every single part of the game seriously is his greatest asset. Having Brady with the same mindset is a huge reason this works too. You are right, other teams are dumb but it’s a product of the environment. Also, the Patriots luck is earned. You remember their luck because they hardly ever beat themselves. That’s how you “get lucky” or over come “bad luck”. The reality is, one call or play never determines a game. Even that atrocity against the Saints was only possible because the Saints left too many plays on the field. The Rams did enough to stay in the game and “get lucky” so they in essence made their own luck. Back in the day when you owned the players and could practice in full pads whenever you wanted and all summer long you could cover every aspect of the game. Bills brilliance is he does this in less time and gets the players to do the same. The old teams also had the same players year after year. These teams have drastic turnover. The Patriots are the most impressive dynast in sports history and you are right that shouldn’t happen. That’s what makes it great. Don’t tarnish what they’ve done. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 21, 2019 17:30:58 GMT -5
The NFL is the only pro football league in the world. There are just over 1500 jobs out of Ten of thousands of would be applicants. Pointing out that a couple of Hall of Famers have beaten them is not seeing the for the trees. Football isn't that complicated. It has changed into a passing league for sure, but none of these teams run things that other teams don't know. It is a copycat league, by admission from all people who participate. I never played the game, so I don't know what it is like to put together a winning strategy, but I have been watching for years and I conclude that, as great as Belichick is (and by extension Brady - all due credit to both), the problem is their opponents preparation and execution against them in playoff games. You look that the 7 of 8 quarters this year, against 2 - 12 win teams. It is embarrassing. If not for the Chiefs 4th quarter, it would be disgusting. As rjp mentions, the system isn't set up for this kind of success. Ipsofacto, this should not be happening, particularly at this point in the league's evolution. There isn't a discernible talent difference ( they do appear to get very lucky at times), they don't have more resources than other teams, they don't play all their games at home or play them 11 on 10. I stand by my reasoning, the people who are supposed to beat them, have failed in historic fashion, brought on by leadership issues for the other franchises. I can confidently say, if Belichick coached when I was growing up, against Knoll, Shula, Landry etc..etc.... this shit would not happen Here’s the thing though... back then things were different. Players now are entitled, rich and you can’t practice like you used to. The fact that Belichick year after year gets the team to buy in and take every single part of the game seriously is his greatest asset. Having Brady with the same mindset is a huge reason this works too. You are right, other teams are dumb but it’s a product of the environment. Also, the Patriots luck is earned. You remember their luck because they hardly ever beat themselves. That’s how you “get lucky” or over come “bad luck”. The reality is, one call or play never determines a game. Even that atrocity against the Saints was only possible because the Saints left too many plays on the field. The Rams did enough to stay in the game and “get lucky” so they in essence made their own luck. Back in the day when you owned the players and could practice in full pads whenever you wanted and all summer long you could cover every aspect of the game. Bills brilliance is he does this in less time and gets the players to do the same. The old teams also had the same players year after year. These teams have drastic turnover. The Patriots are the most impressive dynast in sports history and you are right that shouldn’t happen. That’s what makes it great. Don’t tarnish what they’ve done. And I respect that...and I wouldn't (anyone who loves watching these games has to give them all credit - as I did). I just feel at though other teams are failing and it needs to be said. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 17:45:46 GMT -5
Here’s the thing though... back then things were different. Players now are entitled, rich and you can’t practice like you used to. The fact that Belichick year after year gets the team to buy in and take every single part of the game seriously is his greatest asset. Having Brady with the same mindset is a huge reason this works too. You are right, other teams are dumb but it’s a product of the environment. Also, the Patriots luck is earned. You remember their luck because they hardly ever beat themselves. That’s how you “get lucky” or over come “bad luck”. The reality is, one call or play never determines a game. Even that atrocity against the Saints was only possible because the Saints left too many plays on the field. The Rams did enough to stay in the game and “get lucky” so they in essence made their own luck. Back in the day when you owned the players and could practice in full pads whenever you wanted and all summer long you could cover every aspect of the game. Bills brilliance is he does this in less time and gets the players to do the same. The old teams also had the same players year after year. These teams have drastic turnover. The Patriots are the most impressive dynast in sports history and you are right that shouldn’t happen. That’s what makes it great. Don’t tarnish what they’ve done. And I respect that...and I wouldn't (anyone who loves watching these games has to give them all credit - as I did). I just feel at though other teams are failing and it needs to be said. That’s fair - they are failing. Coaches aren’t given enough time to set up their systems. The Patriots have had an easy division but how much of that is their doing? They never have an off year so teams can never get in by winning a bad division this coaches get fired after not making the playoffs for 2 or 3 years... they are like and automatic 0-2 every year too. It’s one of those make your own luck things for the Patriots. |
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jan 21, 2019 17:51:22 GMT -5
Jared Goff kind of looks like Ryan Gosling. I bet the Pats get a -7 point spread. This is an easy SB opponent. I'm mad it's not the Eagles again because they easily could have been there with a tiny bit of injury luck. Hell, they just beat the Rams with a crapload of injuries. On paper, the Rams shouldn't be an easy opponent. However, their secondary has given it up to the Eagles, Chiefs and Saints (before the NFC Championship game). Even with the names of Talib and Peters, they haven't been able to hold off the good teams. If the O line can hold, Brady should be able to pick apart that secondary. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 18:05:06 GMT -5
Question... should Dante Scarnecchia be in the Hall of Fame? On first look, it’s laughable that an offensive line coach would be in the hall of fame, but then you think about it and why not? He’s been such a dominant coach at that position and his impact is huge. He’s done it for almost 30 years all with the same franchise. The only reason he’s stayed there is because he wanted to and had no desire to “climb the coaching ladder”. His career is so unique in that he’s coached here longer than Kraft has owner the team. Do you realize how good you have to be to keep your job across multiple owners and coaches? And we aren’t just talking once but 2 times because he left for two years in 89-90.
Kickers basically shouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame either, but some like Vinatieri are just so much better that you have no choice but to induct them. I’d make the same argument for Dante.
Non-Hall note: his career is both so impressive and so smart. He’s undoubtedly made a lot of money doing something he loves without having to move his family in a field where it’s almost impossible to not uproot your family every few years.
Check this out:
Coaches with Pats 82 -88 covering 3 head coaches.
Came back in 91 and has been hear every since taking off 2014 &15 then being begged to return. This has covered 4 coaches: Dick MacPherson, Parcells, Carrol and Belichick. He became the offensive line coach in 99 and has been since. Was the assistant head coach from the time Belichick got here until he retired in addition to the O-line coach. Our offensive lines have constantly been really good and the guys that have been on them have hardly been top talents across the board.
He will never be in anything other than the Patriots Hall of Fame but maybe he should be.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 21, 2019 18:08:10 GMT -5
I bet the Pats get a -7 point spread. This is an easy SB opponent. I'm mad it's not the Eagles again because they easily could have been there with a tiny bit of injury luck. Hell, they just beat the Rams with a crapload of injuries. On paper, the Rams shouldn't be an easy opponent. However, their secondary has given it up to the Eagles, Chiefs and Saints (before the NFC Championship game). Even with the names of Talib and Peters, they haven't been able to hold off the good teams. If the O line can hold, Brady should be able to pick apart that secondary. Yeah, the Eagles destroyed them about a month ago. The Rams got points in garbage time. And the Eagles didn't even play that well that game. Just wait and see how Goff does with the crazy defensive schemes the Pats will throw at him to make him make mistakes that he's prone to making. Mahomes had the luxury of seeing the Pats twice. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 18:10:25 GMT -5
I bet the Pats get a -7 point spread. This is an easy SB opponent. I'm mad it's not the Eagles again because they easily could have been there with a tiny bit of injury luck. Hell, they just beat the Rams with a crapload of injuries. On paper, the Rams shouldn't be an easy opponent. However, their secondary has given it up to the Eagles, Chiefs and Saints (before the NFC Championship game). Even with the names of Talib and Peters, they haven't been able to hold off the good teams. If the O line can hold, Brady should be able to pick apart that secondary. Valid but it was supposed to be the best defense in football (which means talent is there) and they have been really good last month or so... plus they possess Brady’s kryptonite... a guy who can get interior pressure... Pats can scheme outside pressure away but you can’t really do that to Darnold... he’s the X factor |
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 21, 2019 19:24:48 GMT -5
The NFL is the only pro football league in the world. There are just over 1500 jobs out of Ten of thousands of would be applicants. Pointing out that a couple of Hall of Famers have beaten them is not seeing the forest for the trees. Football isn't that complicated. It has changed into a passing league for sure, but none of these teams run things that other teams don't know. It is a copycat league, by admission from all people who participate. I never played the game, so I don't know what it is like to put together a winning strategy, but I have been watching for years and I conclude that, as great as Belichick is (and by extension Brady - all due credit to both), the problem is their opponents preparation and execution against them in playoff games. You look that the 7 of 8 quarters this year, against 2 - 12 win teams. It is embarrassing. If not for the Chiefs 4th quarter, it would be disgusting. As rjp mentions, the system isn't set up for this kind of success. Ipsofacto, this should not be happening, particularly at this point in the league's evolution. There isn't a discernible talent difference ( they do appear to get very lucky at times), they don't have more resources than other teams, they don't play all their games at home or play them 11 on 10. I stand by my reasoning, the people who are supposed to beat them, have failed in historic fashion, brought on by leadership issues for the other franchises. I can confidently say, if Belichick coached when I was growing up, against Knoll, Shula, Landry etc..etc.... this shit would not happen . Chuck Noll was great when his team was loaded with HOF players, but not so great when they left. He won 10 games exactly one time during his last 12 years, so I don't think this era would be too kind to a guy who only won when his talent was clearly superior, that doesn't work in the era of FA. You were the one who argued the competition is poor in today's NFL, while also suggesting it used to be better. Since the Patriots won their first SB the NFL has had 10 different franchises win a title (not including NE). In comparison, from the Cowboys first title (1972) through the end of their 90s dynasty (1996) only 8 franchises won titles. Many franchises couldn't field competitive teams in the pre-free agency era. During the Patriots run they've beat four teams who were on their own path toward a dynasty run (the Rams, Colts, Steelers, and Seahawks). So yes, the Patriots have faced champion teams during impressive runs and beaten them most years. They've also lost to a bunch of worthy one year wonder teams, the type of teams that were extremely rare in the 70s and 80s pre-free agency. As far as your comment on roster spots/jobs, ok, but QB is a bigger deal than other positions. The two guys I mentioned are their most frequent opponent, so it matters more than the 1500+ players that comprise the league, especially with how long each played with their respective team. Peyton Manning faced the Patriots five different times in elimination games, and each time his roster was stacked and his team was extremely successful against the rest of the league. Are you suggesting his Colts and Broncos teams were lesser competition than Shula's Dolphins faced or Noll's Steelers faced? If so please provide an actual example of when this occurred. Imo it's the complete opposite, the Patriots have won in the more competitive era. If the competition wasn't so fierce the Patriots would've won more titles, they've come up just short so many times. The Patriots have never played in a blowout SB, each one was hard fought and even. There's overwhelming evidence this era is tougher to sustain success than any era in NFL history, but if you have any examples to counter that I'm open to hearing it. The closest thing the Patriots had to an easy title path was 2016, and even that compares favorably to the easy path the undefeated 72 Dolphins had to the SB. |
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Post by incandenza on Jan 21, 2019 19:51:14 GMT -5
The NFL is the only pro football league in the world. There are just over 1500 jobs out of Ten of thousands of would be applicants. Pointing out that a couple of Hall of Famers have beaten them is not seeing the for the trees. Football isn't that complicated. It has changed into a passing league for sure, but none of these teams run things that other teams don't know. It is a copycat league, by admission from all people who participate. I never played the game, so I don't know what it is like to put together a winning strategy, but I have been watching for years and I conclude that, as great as Belichick is (and by extension Brady - all due credit to both), the problem is their opponents preparation and execution against them in playoff games. You look that the 7 of 8 quarters this year, against 2 - 12 win teams. It is embarrassing. If not for the Chiefs 4th quarter, it would be disgusting. As rjp mentions, the system isn't set up for this kind of success. Ipsofacto, this should not be happening, particularly at this point in the league's evolution. There isn't a discernible talent difference ( they do appear to get very lucky at times), they don't have more resources than other teams, they don't play all their games at home or play them 11 on 10. I stand by my reasoning, the people who are supposed to beat them, have failed in historic fashion, brought on by leadership issues for the other franchises. I can confidently say, if Belichick coached when I was growing up, against Knoll, Shula, Landry etc..etc.... this shit would not happen Here’s the thing though... back then things were different. Players now are entitled, rich and you can’t practice like you used to. The fact that Belichick year after year gets the team to buy in and take every single part of the game seriously is his greatest asset. Having Brady with the same mindset is a huge reason this works too. You are right, other teams are dumb but it’s a product of the environment. Also, the Patriots luck is earned. You remember their luck because they hardly ever beat themselves. That’s how you “get lucky” or over come “bad luck”. The reality is, one call or play never determines a game. Even that atrocity against the Saints was only possible because the Saints left too many plays on the field. The Rams did enough to stay in the game and “get lucky” so they in essence made their own luck. Back in the day when you owned the players and could practice in full pads whenever you wanted and all summer long you could cover every aspect of the game. Bills brilliance is he does this in less time and gets the players to do the same. The old teams also had the same players year after year. These teams have drastic turnover. The Patriots are the most impressive dynast in sports history and you are right that shouldn’t happen. That’s what makes it great. Don’t tarnish what they’ve done. I don't know much about football and should probably stay out of the discussion, but I'm looking at this line, and... well, I can't help myself. In what universe do you live that you can look at NFL players in 2019 and think that they are "entitled" compared to the good ol' days? They are physically trained to some cyborgian limit of human fitness, whereas in the old days my general understanding is that linemen weighed about 190 pounds and that was mostly beer belly. But anyways I agree with the conclusion. The Patriots dynasty is really impressive, and but the idea that the league is "not good" (compared to what? also: see point above about how it's basically a bunch of superheroes flying around at each other out there) makes no sense to me. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 20:08:34 GMT -5
Here’s the thing though... back then things were different. Players now are entitled, rich and you can’t practice like you used to. The fact that Belichick year after year gets the team to buy in and take every single part of the game seriously is his greatest asset. Having Brady with the same mindset is a huge reason this works too. You are right, other teams are dumb but it’s a product of the environment. Also, the Patriots luck is earned. You remember their luck because they hardly ever beat themselves. That’s how you “get lucky” or over come “bad luck”. The reality is, one call or play never determines a game. Even that atrocity against the Saints was only possible because the Saints left too many plays on the field. The Rams did enough to stay in the game and “get lucky” so they in essence made their own luck. Back in the day when you owned the players and could practice in full pads whenever you wanted and all summer long you could cover every aspect of the game. Bills brilliance is he does this in less time and gets the players to do the same. The old teams also had the same players year after year. These teams have drastic turnover. The Patriots are the most impressive dynast in sports history and you are right that shouldn’t happen. That’s what makes it great. Don’t tarnish what they’ve done. I don't know much about football and should probably stay out of the discussion, but I'm looking at this line, and... well, I can't help myself. In what universe do you live that you can look at NFL players in 2019 and think that they are "entitled" compared to the good ol' days? They are physically trained to some cyborgian limit of human fitness, whereas in the old days my general understanding is that linemen weighed about 190 pounds and that was mostly beer belly. But anyways I agree with the conclusion. The Patriots dynasty is really impressive, and but the idea that the league is "not good" (compared to what? also: see point above about how it's basically a bunch of superheroes flying around at each other out there) makes no sense to me. When i say entitled I mean millionaire athletes practicing less and coaches having less control. I’m not even trying to suggest these changes are bad; they just are. Before, coaches could basically kill guys with practices etc. Now players have rights. I don’t know what this has to do with who’s a better athlete etc. It’s about being able to run practices in pads over and over and practice every nuance of the game. Maybe entitled is a bad word choice but that’s what I’m talking about... Part of the reason there’s a lot of bad coaching and dumb teams making bad mistakes is they can’t practice like this and coaches don’t know how to teach in less time, plus roster turnover creates issues that didn’t exist before. Do you watch the Patriots year after year? I assume yes... they win half the time because they just don’t make mistakes and the other team does. Penalties, bad turnovers, terrible game management, never making an adjustment, the list goes on and on. Take the Steelers. The Patriots dominate them in the playoffs because Tomlin is dumb. They play the same zone defense every year and Brady tears it apart. They literally never changed it up. They have been a more talented team so many times but stood no chance because we are so far superior to them. When you ask not good compared to what, and I talk about dumb; I mean compared to the Patriots. How many games do you sit there and watch and can see the other team screwing up? I say this not to take away from the Patriots but to point out how far superior they are in every facet. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 21, 2019 20:14:48 GMT -5
By the way, we are going to hear a lot the next two weeks about wonder kid Sean McVay and he’s turned that team around so he’s obviously a great coach. Part of being a great coach is hiring great people but there’s 2 types of coaches I just can’t fully get behind.
1. A head coach that calls his teams plays... if you’re calling the offense then you literally can’t be helping the defense or special teams the vast majority of the time. McVay/Reid etc these guys only impact half the game. Andy Reid was literally sitting on the bench for parts of the game and not in a Belichick gathering the defense or offense around and coaching them up making adjustments sort of way...
2. Coordinators that sit up in the booth and just call plays. Seriously, you’re not on the sideline coaching your team? That should be illegal it’s so stupid. Shanahan did this in Atlanta. It infuriates me.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 21, 2019 21:31:55 GMT -5
what we are seeing is indeed special, unprecedented - just simply unbelievable.
I first started following the Patriots when I was 14 or so - 1970. I got to live through young not very good Plunkett, tantalizing but not great Grogan, and I am sure most of you know the rest. 1970-1975 - yuck. Nice little run between 1976-1980. Up and down for a few years, then...1989-1995 (with one good Parcells year). So, it is hard to even think of that in the same context as the current run - 2001-2018 - no words for that kind of consistent domination and quality.
It takes a lot - great coach, great quarterback, great assistant coaches, great ownership....but a great system with personnel that buy into it.
We are so wicked spoiled (letting my New England roots show there) - From Red Sox Beat LA to Patriots Beat LA within just a few months.
I know so many Patriot haters - I am on a political discussion board and the comments last night after the game were priceless.
Was I a bit smug? (just a bit!)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 21, 2019 23:43:42 GMT -5
I just don't agree. It's like if he doesn't play perfect you get down on him. No QB against a good team can play perfect all game long! The first half was all about running, forcing the Chiefs to change personnel so late in the game would be easier. They let it rip at the end of the first half and he threw that near perfect pass to Dorsett. The interception was the result of him selling the run as the announcer said, he never saw the LB move. It's like you blame Brady for the brillant game plan. We didn't come out slinging it on purpose. Whoa sensitive police... so you admit he didn’t play great all game but get mad at me for pointing out the same just with a few more specifics? If Dee Ford isn’t offsides he would have had 3 picks and a 63 QB rating in a loss on the road... fact You and Max Kellerman are about the only two guys saying negative stuff. You want facts, this is by far the least talented bunch of pass catchers in a long time. So big picture Brady has a great game, there isn't any buts or negative parts. Two interceptions one because Gronk is slower, can't get separation, so they tried a timing play that the LB admits he read perfectly and jumped in front of it. Then Edelman doesn't catch a rather easy pass and you blame Brady? Now were talking about what if interceptions? I'm buying Pedro's theory that Brady knew Ford was in the zone and thought it was a free play. It was crazy clear, he was like two feet over the line on the edge. Brady could see that as clear as day. We've seen him do it many times over his career. What's his QBR if Edelman catches that pass or at minimum doesn't tip it in the air? That's what true Patriot fans that don't share Max Kellermans views look at, not what your doing. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 22, 2019 6:08:00 GMT -5
So Tom Brady was the target of a laser pointer. His interception on Edelman came when the laser got to his head.
What scumbag fans in KC.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 22, 2019 9:12:23 GMT -5
Beasley....I haven't argued the competition is worse....I have argued that the people charged with beating them have failed miserably. You can claim that is because on the greatness of the Patriots, and you very well may be right. I think that other franchises have been historically bad at the leadership needed to complete with them and that is a point of consideration when looking at the success, in a macro fashion.
I'll say this...if owned or ran a franchise, I would create a separate, paid division of personnel whose only task is reviewing every decision they make.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2019 9:32:53 GMT -5
Sorry jerry, this is a really bizarre way of saying you hate the Pats.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 22, 2019 10:01:54 GMT -5
Sorry jerry, this is a really bizarre way of saying you hate the Pats. Maybe... I won't get into my pathology.... thankfully it isn't Stockholm Syndrome like. Honest question....when you saw the way they came out and destroyed them in the first possessions for each team, didn't the thought cross your mind that the Chiefs were unprepared....I did. It really isn't about hate. As an Eagle fan, you should understand incompetent leadership over decade time periods |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2019 10:54:20 GMT -5
Sorry jerry, this is a really bizarre way of saying you hate the Pats. Maybe... I won't get into my pathology.... thankfully it isn't Stockholm Syndrome like. Honest question....when you saw the way they came out and destroyed them in the first possessions for each team, didn't the thought cross your mind that the Chiefs were unprepared....I did. It really isn't about hate. As an Eagle fan, you should understand incompetent leadership over decade time periods I'm not going to say the Patriots are lucky because every other team is inferior. It crossed my mind that Belichick is way better than Reid and everyone else. That's why every other team is inferior. I will say that Doug Pederson was amazing in the Super Bowl run last season and is the only guy that comes close. Too many injuries this year though. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 11:51:04 GMT -5
Whoa sensitive police... so you admit he didn’t play great all game but get mad at me for pointing out the same just with a few more specifics? If Dee Ford isn’t offsides he would have had 3 picks and a 63 QB rating in a loss on the road... fact You and Max Kellerman are about the only two guys saying negative stuff. You want facts, this is by far the least talented bunch of pass catchers in a long time. So big picture Brady has a great game, there isn't any buts or negative parts. Two interceptions one because Gronk is slower, can't get separation, so they tried a timing play that the LB admits he read perfectly and jumped in front of it. Then Edelman doesn't catch a rather easy pass and you blame Brady? Now were talking about what if interceptions? I'm buying Pedro's theory that Brady knew Ford was in the zone and thought it was a free play. It was crazy clear, he was like two feet over the line on the edge. Brady could see that as clear as day. We've seen him do it many times over his career. What's his QBR if Edelman catches that pass or at minimum doesn't tip it in the air? That's what true Patriot fans that don't share Max Kellermans views look at, not what your doing. True Brady played a great game. You know you said that? Me... That pass to Edelman was not an easy catch. Certainly catchable, but those aren’t the same things. The throw wasn’t great and it ultimately cost them. Edelman shares some blame and McDaniels shares some blame for the ridiculously dumb play call. But then be consistent. If you don’t want to give Brady any blame for that stuff then don’t give him any credit for James White (twice) and Hogan making absolutely ridiculous catches for first downs. You’re funny in that you get certainly players like Kyrie and Brady: with Kyrie literally everything someone else does is his fault. And Brady, nothing is his fault. All i said was he wasn’t great for the first part of the game and you’re calling me Max Kellerman... give me a break. Brady isn’t perfect and we are allowed to enjoy his brilliance and discuss where he wasn’t as good at times. It’s ok - it doesn’t mean you don’t respect him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 11:54:31 GMT -5
So Tom Brady was the target of a laser pointer. His interception on Edelman came when the laser got to his head. What scumbag fans in KC. His pick came on the next play not when the laser was pointed at him. He handed the ball off to Michel on that play. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 22, 2019 12:22:57 GMT -5
So Tom Brady was the target of a laser pointer. His interception on Edelman came when the laser got to his head. What scumbag fans in KC. His pick came on the next play not when the laser was pointed at him. He handed the ball off to Michel on that play. Yeah, but could have still had the affects of the laser in his eye in the interception. |
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