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2018 Patriots Season Thread
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 22, 2019 13:10:58 GMT -5
Yeah, but could have still had the affects of the laser in his eye in the interception. Did the laser also hit Edelman in the hands? |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2019 13:43:16 GMT -5
Yeah, but could have still had the affects of the laser in his eye in the interception. Did the laser also hit Edelman in the hands? It hit all of the coaches that face the Pats in the eye all week while preparing for the Pats. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 14:28:54 GMT -5
His pick came on the next play not when the laser was pointed at him. He handed the ball off to Michel on that play. Yeah, but could have still had the affects of the laser in his eye in the interception. How? I thought Brady made a great throw? |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 22, 2019 14:47:36 GMT -5
Yeah, but could have still had the affects of the laser in his eye in the interception. Did the laser also hit Edelman in the hands? No, but it just sucks that fans are doing this. This could have lead to the bad throw to Edelman. Maybe Edelman was expecting the throw from a different angle and Brady couldn't get it there properly because his eyes are screwing with him from laser pointing. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 22, 2019 15:25:26 GMT -5
You and Max Kellerman are about the only two guys saying negative stuff. You want facts, this is by far the least talented bunch of pass catchers in a long time. So big picture Brady has a great game, there isn't any buts or negative parts. Two interceptions one because Gronk is slower, can't get separation, so they tried a timing play that the LB admits he read perfectly and jumped in front of it. Then Edelman doesn't catch a rather easy pass and you blame Brady? Now were talking about what if interceptions? I'm buying Pedro's theory that Brady knew Ford was in the zone and thought it was a free play. It was crazy clear, he was like two feet over the line on the edge. Brady could see that as clear as day. We've seen him do it many times over his career. What's his QBR if Edelman catches that pass or at minimum doesn't tip it in the air? That's what true Patriot fans that don't share Max Kellermans views look at, not what your doing. True Brady played a great game. You know you said that? Me... That pass to Edelman was not an easy catch. Certainly catchable, but those aren’t the same things. The throw wasn’t great and it ultimately cost them. Edelman shares some blame and McDaniels shares some blame for the ridiculously dumb play call. But then be consistent. If you don’t want to give Brady any blame for that stuff then don’t give him any credit for James White (twice) and Hogan making absolutely ridiculous catches for first downs. You’re funny in that you get certainly players like Kyrie and Brady: with Kyrie literally everything someone else does is his fault. And Brady, nothing is his fault. All i said was he wasn’t great for the first part of the game and you’re calling me Max Kellerman... give me a break. Brady isn’t perfect and we are allowed to enjoy his brilliance and discuss where he wasn’t as good at times. It’s ok - it doesn’t mean you don’t respect him. Calculating his QBR passed off a third interception that didn't even happen is crossing that line my friend. I don't blame Brady because 90% of the WRs in this league catch that pass. It wasn't that hard, it wasn't like Edelman had to jump crazy high and just barely got his hands on it. He got both hands in perfect position and the ball went right through them. So your going to say that pass to White wasn't perfect? Yea it was an unreal catch, but Brady put it in the one place he could catch it. Threw the ball well before White was even close to open. Hogan was making his catches seem harder than they should be in my opinion. They weren't anything like Whites, which I'd rate like a 9.5 on the difficulty scale. Yet he can only make that catch if he gets a perfect pass. Bringing Irving into this discussion is comical. They couldn't be any different. Brady has never acted like Irving, he's the polar opposite. In so many ways my issues with Irving is that he's nothing like Brady. I'll never blame Irving if he plays team ball, passes and guys just miss easy shots he helped create for them. I will blame him when he stops passing, throws his teammates under the bus, doesn't trust them and seems to care more about his stats and legacy that the team. Brady makes everyone around him better. A big part of that is trusting everyone and sharing the ball. He finds the open players no matter who they are. He follows the game plan no matter what it is. Maybe one day Irving can be close to the teammate and team player Brady is, but he isn't even close to that right now. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 22, 2019 17:27:58 GMT -5
After the terrific season the Sox had winning the WS and all I felt like I needed a break from this site. I decided to stay away until now and I have to say I am glad I did. Not one of you have mentioned the real reason why the Pats have succeeded in all the ranting I have read. Ranting on and on about this or that, such a bunch of BS.
Dante S. the o-line coach, the running game, keeping TB clean in the pocket and the aggressiveness of Flores D has turned the season around. The Pats dominate the line of scrimmage!!! That is why they are going to win another SB!! That is it!! It is simple really and you guys have all missed it talking BS about this or that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 22, 2019 18:07:51 GMT -5
I'm darn sure I talked about the running game helping set up Brady's second half. It forced the Chiefs to go big, not just have all passrushers and thus they had a hard time getting pressure. Mainly because the run was killing them and keeping their offense off the field. Sure though go a head and act like no one said anything about that.
It was really your only play against that team given our weapons, their passrushers and their offense.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 18:17:38 GMT -5
Brady’s perfect throw to a wide open Gronk: Bullet pass so on target he had to jump arms fully extended to get his hands on it.... catchable but difficult. Made harder by the fact that he was turning around at the same time...  Btw one of the most homerish takes is that he knew Ford was offsides. QBs know a guys offsides when you draw him off and he jumps not simply when they are lined up in the neutral zone. If he knew it was a free play you throw it down field not to the line of scrimmage. He wasn’t under pressure. Check out this perfect throw to Edelman. I’m sure if you asked Tom this is where he wanted to put it. Do you have any clue how hard it is to haul in a pass out stretched across your body well above your head?  And just for fun to piss UMass off a little more:  Btw Brady is my favorite all time athlete. I’ll tell you he’s better than anyone who every played. I’m just capable of noticing when he’s not at his best. If you think those throws are where he wanted them, then all the power to ya. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 18:18:36 GMT -5
I'm darn sure I talked about the running game helping set up Brady's second half. It forced the Chiefs to go big, not just have all passrushers and thus they had a hard time getting pressure. Mainly because the run was killing them and keeping their offense off the field. Sure though go a head and act like no one said anything about that. It was really your only play against that team given our weapons, their passrushers and their offense. I agree the running game set it all up and was a great game plan. They waited about 2 series too long to capitalize on it though. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 22, 2019 18:39:01 GMT -5
Brady’s perfect throw to a wide open Gronk: Bullet pass so on target he had to jump arms fully extended to get his hands on it.... catchable but difficult. Made harder by the fact that he was turning around at the same time... Btw one of the most homerish takes is that he knew Ford was offsides. QBs know a guys offsides when you draw him off and he jumps not simply when they are lined up in the neutral zone. If he knew it was a free play you throw it down field not to the line of scrimmage. He wasn’t under pressure. Check out this perfect throw to Edelman. I’m sure if you asked Tom this is where he wanted to put it. Do you have any clue how hard it is to haul in a pass out stretched across your body well above your head? And just for fun to piss UMass off a little more: Btw Brady is my favorite all time athlete. I’ll tell you he’s better than anyone who every played. I’m just capable of noticing when he’s not at his best. If you think those throws are where he wanted them, then all the power to ya. Hey Max what's your take on a Pac vs. Mayweather rematch? Kinda comical that you dissect every play of Brady to say he wasn't great all game long, like any QB is perfect for a full game, yet Irving has never done anything wrong in your book. There's a difference from playing great and being darn near perfect. Why can't you notice when Irvings not at his best? Given the talent Brady had it was an all-time great game. You can't overlook that. The team didn't have a player to scare the Chiefs deep, which forces Brady to play differently. It's like thinking Manning would be Manning without the huge trio of talented WRs he played with. Given that Gronk is a shell of what he once was, you have to go back to our first three superbowl teams to find a lesser talented group of pass catchers. That means Brady needs to take more risks and play differently and he did. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 19:23:50 GMT -5
Brady is great and I didn’t want to say this last night and be a buzz kill, but the Patriots dominated over half of that game and the reason the Chiefs were in it was because he wasn’t playing great. He played great in the 4th and OT which is what he does and why he is the best that ever played the game but that game should have been a blow out the way the defense was playing and the way they moved the ball on the ground. Also, if Dee Ford wasn’t lined up offsides we’d be talking about the Brady pick to end the game that was a “deflection” but really just a bad throw. This isn’t a Brady hate rant; it’s just reality of what went down. It’s why him and Belichick are a great team. Brady our played Maholmes last night and our coaches out coached them; it’s why we continue to make teams with more talent look inferior. And I can’t stress enough how great, outside the throw to Gronk, that Brady was when it was all on the line. Even the runs he gets credit for reading the defense. He was at his HOF best. Not a controversial take here... stated how great Brady is and was... went so far as to say “can’t stress enough how great... that Brady was when it was all on the line..”. Even gave the guy the credit for the run plays... oh and go back and read my Kyrie posts you’ll see the criticism. You just read what you want to. Sorry I pointed out a couple key plays. I’ve noticed you aren’t disputing they weren’t great throws anymore... don’t take an observation as hating on a guy. He’s human it’s ok for you to admit it. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2019 21:03:43 GMT -5
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Post by a2sox on Jan 22, 2019 21:10:58 GMT -5
Did the laser also hit Edelman in the hands? It hit all of the coaches that face the Pats in the eye all week while preparing for the Pats. Gold. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 23, 2019 2:17:28 GMT -5
RJP buddy, can we at least agree that Brady is maybe the greatest all time at reading where everyone on defense is lined up and where he wants to go with a football after reading what the defense gives him?
So why then is it a homeristic take to then say perhaps Brady read that the defense was lined up offsides? Dee Ford was pretty blatant about it and it was very obvious pre snap that he was offsides, and that's me telling you that. Nevermind what Tom Brady, the best again at reading what he sees.
Yeah he went to a simple WR screen play (to Gronk who was lined up as WR at the time) which he overthrew by a little, but like I said before, Gronk would have had at least 5 yards after the catch if not more if Brady made a clean throw.
Maybe you can explain it better, but I just can't see the homerism there. I don't think it was one of Brady's best playoff games, but I don't think he had a bad game either. Brady's WR and running backs helped him a lot, but Brady also threw that dang football in a lot of tight windows which very few QB's, maybe no QB's can do in the league today. He was money imo, but maybe that's just me.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 7:36:44 GMT -5
RJP buddy, can we at least agree that Brady is maybe the greatest all time at reading where everyone on defense is lined up and where he wants to go with a football after reading what the defense gives him? So why then is it a homeristic take to then say perhaps Brady read that the defense was lined up offsides? Dee Ford was pretty blatant about it and it was very obvious pre snap that he was offsides, and that's me telling you that. Nevermind what Tom Brady, the best again at reading what he sees. Yeah he went to a simple WR screen play (to Gronk who was lined up as WR at the time) which he overthrew by a little, but like I said before, Gronk would have had at least 5 yards after the catch if not more if Brady made a clean throw. Maybe you can explain it better, but I just can't see the homerism there. I don't think it was one of Brady's best playoff games, but I don't think he had a bad game either. Brady's WR and running backs helped him a lot, but Brady also threw that dang football in a lot of tight windows which very few QB's, maybe no QB's can do in the league today. He was money imo, but maybe that's just me. He’s the greatest at all time period. It’s a homerish take for serveral reasons. 1. Lining up offsides is different than jumping. You are adding the “clearly” part to fit what you want to have happened. Clear to the lineman perhaps but that’s not the same as Brady seeing a hand a foot into the neutral zone. 2. When you get a free play, you take a shot down field. Tell me one other time you’ve seen him dump it off when he knows it’s a free play? What’s the point of that? 3. The reaction after the play doesn’t do anything to tell you he knew it was going their way. So basically your only evidence is “it’s Tom Brady, he’s awesome so I want to believe he saw him”. It wouldn’t have surprised me if he had seen him, because nothing the guy does surprises me, but if he did that same guy would have thrown it down field even into coverage. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 8:38:18 GMT -5
So moving on.... the Rams were the second worst team in the league covering Tight Ends.... are we about to get an epic Gronk game?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 23, 2019 13:36:09 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Ford didn't just have a hand over the line. He had half his body over the blue line. Romo was going to blast the call, then watched the replay and was like well he was way offside. Brady is standing up over all these guys. So yea it seems rather clear that he could see something that extreme rather easy.
Just watched the replay Gronk is wide open. No way you don't go to him free play or not. Easy 10 to 15 yards, heck maybe more given that its Gronk. I don't even know why we are having this discussion. The ball had to be thrown high because Gronk was so close to the line of scrimmage. It's not like Brady just messed up, he had to get it over the players on the line. If anything Gronk should have went towards the sidelines a little more to give Brady a better angle. If Brady tries to throw that in his chest it hits a Chiefs player. Blaming Brady is crazy for that play.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 23, 2019 13:44:08 GMT -5
I really don't think he saw Ford was offside, it didn't look like a free play and while Ford was egregiously out of position, it's really hard to notice it since he didn't jump early and there's like 10 dudes in front of Brady for him to be able to tell one of them is lined up incorrectly. I didn't think it was a bad read either, he tried to make a play and it blew up in his face and he got lucky. It happens. Brady's accomplishments speak for themselves, there's no need to embellish them.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 14:05:57 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Ford didn't just have a hand over the line. He had half his body over the blue line. Romo was going to blast the call, then watched the replay and was like well he was way offside. Brady is standing up over all these guys. So yea it seems rather clear that he could see something that extreme rather easy. Just watched the replay Gronk is wide open. No way you don't go to him free play or not. Easy 10 to 15 yards, heck maybe more given that its Gronk. I don't even know why we are having this discussion. The ball had to be thrown high because Gronk was so close to the line of scrimmage. It's not like Brady just messed up, he had to get it over the players on the line. If anything Gronk should have went towards the sidelines a little more to give Brady a better angle. If Brady tries to throw that in his chest it hits a Chiefs player. Blaming Brady is crazy for that play. To start, I want to stress I don’t out 100% of the blame on Brady, Gronk does share in it. Just was pointing out his off target throw contributed to it. So you said you just watched the replay... how do you look at this and not see that Brady has a clear line to Gronk to throw the ball? (See still shot below) That defender that’s jumping is way off throwing line; he’s just reacting to Brady cocking back... the right side of the line sealed that off, which makes it look like that’s the designed play all the way to get Gronk sliding off the line. They seal that passing lane. If he had to get it over the line, then he throws it softer(or he should) so it’s not a bullet above his head. It’s also further evidence he probably didn’t see Ford offsides because he went with the designed play as is.... The better dump off is to White at the top of the screen... if Brady can slide over and/or float that over to him he had a ton of real estate and a full head of steam.  |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 14:07:04 GMT -5
I really don't think he saw Ford was offside, it didn't look like a free play and while Ford was egregiously out of position, it's really hard to notice it since he didn't jump early and there's like 10 dudes in front of Brady for him to be able to tell one of them is lined up incorrectly. I didn't think it was a bad read either, he tried to make a play and it blew up in his face and he got lucky. It happens. Brady's accomplishments speak for themselves, there's no need to embellish them. The last sentence is perfectly put. He’s the best; i don’t know why we aren’t allowed to talk about certain times he’s human without it being some sort of atrocity. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 14:09:37 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 15:16:38 GMT -5
I’d like to draw a little comparison here to the Red Sox playoff opposition. To win the WS the Sox has to go thru the 3 best teams in the entire MLB besides themselves. New York and Houston were probably the 3rd and 2nd best teams respectively and the Dodgers the 4th.
The Patriots have just gone thru the 2
Best teams in the AFC and now they face the best team in the NFC. The only difference is the Saints are probably better than the Chargers but it’s pretty damn close.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 23, 2019 15:29:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Ford didn't just have a hand over the line. He had half his body over the blue line. Romo was going to blast the call, then watched the replay and was like well he was way offside. Brady is standing up over all these guys. So yea it seems rather clear that he could see something that extreme rather easy. Just watched the replay Gronk is wide open. No way you don't go to him free play or not. Easy 10 to 15 yards, heck maybe more given that its Gronk. I don't even know why we are having this discussion. The ball had to be thrown high because Gronk was so close to the line of scrimmage. It's not like Brady just messed up, he had to get it over the players on the line. If anything Gronk should have went towards the sidelines a little more to give Brady a better angle. If Brady tries to throw that in his chest it hits a Chiefs player. Blaming Brady is crazy for that play. To start, I want to stress I don’t out 100% of the blame on Brady, Gronk does share in it. Just was pointing out his off target throw contributed to it. So you said you just watched the replay... how do you look at this and not see that Brady has a clear line to Gronk to throw the ball? (See still shot below) That defender that’s jumping is way off throwing line; he’s just reacting to Brady cocking back... the right side of the line sealed that off, which makes it look like that’s the designed play all the way to get Gronk sliding off the line. They seal that passing lane. If he had to get it over the line, then he throws it softer(or he should) so it’s not a bullet above his head. It’s also further evidence he probably didn’t see Ford offsides because he went with the designed play as is.... The better dump off is to White at the top of the screen... if Brady can slide over and/or float that over to him he had a ton of real estate and a full head of steam. Watch the whole play, Gronk is behind the line and pops out a little bit. The Chiefs players is right there and Brady had a pass deflected before this play. He's throwing it high so that Chiefs player has no chance at getting his hand out and hitting it. It's what Brady does, better than anyone. No I'm not talking about the guy jumping either, yea he has no shot at it. You look at that picture how is White the better option with Ford in his way? He can't even see White at that point. That picture really shows why Brady couldn't go deep even if he knew, he didn't have the time. Ford being half way up field got preasure. Listen to Romo well Ford is quite a bit offsides, this wasn't a close play and we wasn't just barely over. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 23, 2019 16:42:24 GMT -5
Are we arguing over whether or not Brady is even better than the best of all-time? What a waste of time. No he's not perfect, yes he's the best ever. What else is there?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 23, 2019 16:45:01 GMT -5
To start, I want to stress I don’t out 100% of the blame on Brady, Gronk does share in it. Just was pointing out his off target throw contributed to it. So you said you just watched the replay... how do you look at this and not see that Brady has a clear line to Gronk to throw the ball? (See still shot below) That defender that’s jumping is way off throwing line; he’s just reacting to Brady cocking back... the right side of the line sealed that off, which makes it look like that’s the designed play all the way to get Gronk sliding off the line. They seal that passing lane. If he had to get it over the line, then he throws it softer(or he should) so it’s not a bullet above his head. It’s also further evidence he probably didn’t see Ford offsides because he went with the designed play as is.... The better dump off is to White at the top of the screen... if Brady can slide over and/or float that over to him he had a ton of real estate and a full head of steam. Watch the whole play, Gronk is behind the line and pops out a little bit. The Chiefs players is right there and Brady had a pass deflected before this play. He's throwing it high so that Chiefs player has no chance at getting his hand out and hitting it. It's what Brady does, better than anyone. No I'm not talking about the guy jumping either, yea he has no shot at it. You look at that picture how is White the better option with Ford in his way? He can't even see White at that point. That picture really shows why Brady couldn't go deep even if he knew, he didn't have the time. Ford being half way up field got preasure. Listen to Romo well Ford is quite a bit offsides, this wasn't a close play and we wasn't just barely over. I don’t know how to respond to this; there are no players between Brady throwing the ball and Gronk.. it’s a clear lane. This isn’t worth discussing further. No matter how you slice it; I am possitive Brady wishes he made a better throw. If it has to be high it was too hard; if it didn’t it was too high. Either way it doesn’t matter any more because Dee Ford is a moron. As for the White comment it was more of a it’s too bad he couldn’t see him than a he should have... i saw a side angle replay and he was gone if Brady could see. Ford was set up perfectly to slide left on and hit White but it’s not something I expect just would have been nice. |
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