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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 18, 2018 5:30:53 GMT -5
Turns out letting Malcolm Butler worked out so far. Just wish Dawson/Rowe/J McCorty was working out better across from Gilmore. Seemed like a sensible plan, but the team is somehow back to no receivers no pass rush no CBs. Not ideal. Once Butler turned down the first extension offer from the Patriots, his fate was sealed here. It might have even got him benched in the superbowl. |
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2018 6:32:46 GMT -5
If he plays 10 games for the Patriots I’ll be shocked. Word from Cleveland is they think he was drunk this weekend. Got a link to that information? Read the reports from Cleveland; read between the lines. Showed up late, mysterious hamstring injury that’s really not injured, “wasn’t himself”, releasing him because they are worried about his sobriety. Saying someone “wasn’t himself” followed by them worrying he was struggling with his sobriety is pretty clear. You don’t release or trade someone for a minor tweaked hammy. Drunk may have been poor word choice. Let’s say “under the influence”. This is a team that waited 5 years. They are only moving on because they strongly feel he’s still messed up. Addicts or chronic users are good at hiding things, but people around them closely who know they are battling are also good at seeing when things are off. Hence the “wasn’t himself”. |
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Post by costpet on Sept 18, 2018 7:00:25 GMT -5
I wonder if the team gives him a "minder" to hang with him. Someone to wake him up, someone to keep an eye on him 24/7. A roommate perhaps. Someone he can talk to. Maybe one of the younger coaches who can also prep him on the playbook. I think it will take more than a good talking to to keep him straight. He obviously needs help from a lifetime of substance abuse. I'm sure there's a lot of people like him out there who are not stars, so nobody cares. He's lucky he has all that talent, so somebody does care. Now it's all on him. I'm sure it's going to be difficult. But, anything worthwhile in life is always difficult.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 18, 2018 7:57:21 GMT -5
I’m not counting on Gordon till he proves it, but if all they had to give up was a conditional 5th, you do that every time. Let’s stop overthinking this.
The potential of Brady throwing to Gronk, Gordon, and Edelman is well worth the risk.
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Post by costpet on Sept 18, 2018 8:27:30 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that BB would rather spend a 5th round draft choice for Gordon instead of signing Dez Bryant for just cash. I guess Bryant doesn't have it anymore.
It may take a while for Gordon to connect with Brady, but if he works out, that's a heck of a receiver group.
Let's see, Gordon, Edelman, Gronk, Dorsett, Hogan and White. Bombs away. Jags in January. Game in Jacksonville. Crowd goes home crying again.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 18, 2018 10:22:44 GMT -5
Got a link to that information? Read the reports from Cleveland; read between the lines. Showed up late, mysterious hamstring injury that’s really not injured, “wasn’t himself”, releasing him because they are worried about his sobriety. Saying someone “wasn’t himself” followed by them worrying he was struggling with his sobriety is pretty clear. You don’t release or trade someone for a minor tweaked hammy. Drunk may have been poor word choice. Let’s say “under the influence”. This is a team that waited 5 years. They are only moving on because they strongly feel he’s still messed up. Addicts or chronic users are good at hiding things, but people around them closely who know they are battling are also good at seeing when things are off. Hence the “wasn’t himself”. Just remember the Current GM was hired in December of last year and Gordan lasted one game with him. The guys that waited on him are gone and reports are saying he injured his hamstring doing some endorsement thing and that pissed the team off. That actually makes sense, more than the not reporting an injury thing. I have read between the line frankly, given that 8-10 teams called the Browns about him. The Patriot reportedly did research on him. I just find it hard to believe they trade for him, if him being drunk was the reason the Browns were trading him. Patriots are willing to take risks, they aren't stupid though. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 18, 2018 10:56:08 GMT -5
Give him the Michael Floyd special where he lives out of a hotel room at Patriot Place.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2018 11:31:05 GMT -5
For the record, I’m fine with the move. It just has about a 5% chance of working. The payoff is huge and the downside is low as long as it didn’t/doesn’t stop them from making a move for someone who could help, like a Golden Tate.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 18, 2018 12:18:20 GMT -5
We have like 4.5 million in cap space, its going to be dumpster diving from here on out.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 18, 2018 12:34:34 GMT -5
BC I hear it (has an x% of working) so much. What is our definition of "it working"? What should be the reasonable return on investment of a 5th rounder (or the net of a 5th rounder lost vs a 7th rounder gained)?
Obviously, I hope we don't think it's THE Josh Gordon over the course 1 + years with NE.
And I don't mean this as a pointed retort to the comment. I'm just wondering if the Pats think this has a higher % chance of success bc their definition is different than ours. Are they looking at it as "If Josh Gordon can positively impact x games, then he's worth the net loss in pick value?" If so, what would x be? Should that be considered a success given the expected value of draft picks in that range?
I obviously don't have the answer from NE's perspective. I don't even have it from mine. Just wondering, when we look back, what will we use as a benchmark for deciding if it was move that worked vs one that didn't.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2018 12:44:14 GMT -5
We have like 4.5 million in cap space, its going to be dumpster diving from here on out. Golden Tate would be via trade with out going salary. Probably a guy like Hightower who’s falling out of favor here and looks a step slower. Point is they will be sending out salary. |
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2018 12:45:59 GMT -5
BC I hear it (has an x% of working) so much. What is our definition of "it working"? What should be the reasonable return on investment of a 5th rounder (or the net of a 5th rounder lost vs a 7th rounder gained)? Obviously, I hope we don't think it's THE Josh Gordon over the course 1 + years with NE. And I don't mean this as a pointed retort to the comment. I'm just wondering if the Pats think this has a higher % chance of success bc their definition is different than ours. Are they looking at it as "If Josh Gordon can positively impact x games, then he's worth the net loss in pick value?" If so, what would x be? Should that be considered a success given the expected value of draft picks in that range? I obviously don't have the answer from NE's perspective. I don't even have it from mine. Just wondering, when we look back, what will we use as a benchmark for deciding if it was move that worked vs one that didn't. For me it’s staying on the roster for the season. If he’s on the roster he will help to some degree. He’s too good not to and if he’s not good he won’t be on the roster. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 18, 2018 12:56:19 GMT -5
I just have to ask after seeing very small chance, like 5%, Edleman will be 100 times better. Are you guys saying he just won't fit in our offense or you think there's a 95% chance he gets cut/suspended again?
For me the only worry is he gets in trouble, which I will admit is a big worry. I just have this feeling you'll see a new Josh Gordan for a short period, hopefully the rest of the season. This is the perfect fit for him and why they got rid of Coleman even after getting rid of Fowler. You don't want a Coleman around Gordan. A few reports saying Gordan's people didn't like him on the Browns, felt that just wasn't the team he needed.
On the field I have zero worries, he's such a talent that they will make that work easily.
As to Golden Tate I'm not sure I see that fit even if Gordan flames out. I love the guy as a Notre Dame junkie, but see need size at WR. You'll have Edleman, Dorsett looks good, then Hogan. I'd look at Jordan Matthews when he gets healthy if you wanted another WR. Frankly trading for another RB looks like a bigger need or heck even a DT because ours look like crap.
The other big thing is Edleman and Gordan will command the better CBs, thus Dorsett and Hogan will go from being covered by the top two guys, too the number 3 and 4 guys. That will be huge!
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 18, 2018 13:20:38 GMT -5
Hopefully Gordon will command double teams at times and free up Gronk. Can’t double two receivers.
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Post by jmei on Sept 18, 2018 14:11:19 GMT -5
The risk with Gordon is not just relapse related. He was out of the league for two years, and while he looked like he was close to being the same elite-caliber athlete in his five games last year, he also only caught 43% of the passes thrown to him, and while he had some pretty great highlights, his overall tape was more mixed. While a large part of that was the Browns' poopy QB situation, Gordon has always succeeded based on his athletic gifts and isn't a particularly polished route-runner. There a legitimate question of whether and how quickly he can learn the Patriots' offense, which has notoriously dense and challenging verbiage and relies heavily on timing and route combinations that can be tough to pick up mid-season.
Remember, Cleveland was clearly willing to deal Gordon to the highest bidder, and there's a reason the Patriots were able to acquire him (and a conditional seventh-round pick) for a fifth-round pick. The league as a whole didn't have high hopes for him. He's dealt with substance-abuse issues almost continuously for the last decade and missed close to literally half of his potential college and NFL career and sacrificed tens of millions of potential earnings because of it. Even if the fit looks good on paper (and I'm not sure that it does; putting a guy with mental health and substance-abuse issues in an area where he's never lived before and having him play catch-up with a famously demanding coach and QB doesn't seem like a slam dunk), this won't be an easy process for him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 18, 2018 16:17:49 GMT -5
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2018 16:26:01 GMT -5
Was a nice catch despite it being his only one. |
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Post by jmei on Sept 18, 2018 16:28:24 GMT -5
He's obviously still incredibly gifted athletically (especially in light of his size and strength), but he was in the game for 69 snaps versus the Steelers and that was his only catch (and one of only three targets).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 18, 2018 16:42:10 GMT -5
He's obviously still incredibly gifted athletically (especially in light of his size and strength), but he was in the game for 69 snaps versus the Steelers and that was his only catch (and one of only three targets). It's hard to know if he can be the blame for it. Was he screwing up running routes? Was the Browns just not featuring him? There was a story where Brian Hoyer was going over a gameplan with Gordon one night before a game when he was their QB. The next gameday, Gordon screwed up every route and he only caught 2 balls for 15 yards. This is why I have a hard time calling this a impact move. The Patriots have one of the most dynamic offensive playbooks in all of football and I don't know if Brady can get on the same page with the guy who's head seems to never be in the right place. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 19, 2018 7:32:19 GMT -5
Jordan Matthews just signed with the Eagles, so he's obviously healthy now. Will be interesting to see who ends up being more impactful as the season progresses.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 19, 2018 8:39:08 GMT -5
Pats signed Cyrus Jones off Baltimore PS (bringing him back on a 2 year deal). Some have suggested that could be an indication of Chung's availability (specifically as a PR).
Barner released
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Post by texs31 on Sept 19, 2018 8:55:34 GMT -5
IF this is an indication on Chung, I wonder what that means for the DBs. If Chung is out, Harmon replaces him opposite DMac.
Now it could mean they do less 3S since Ebner shouldn't be in the D package. Or, they move JMac back to S and give Rowe his job back.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 19, 2018 11:04:43 GMT -5
Despite being announced by Browns, Pats and appearing on NFL Transaction wire, BB saying the deal isn't done. Follow up posts saying the hold up is that NE is trying to get the 10-Game condition removed so that the Pats just receive the 7th outright.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 19, 2018 11:53:08 GMT -5
Despite being announced by Browns, Pats and appearing on NFL Transaction wire, BB saying the deal isn't done. Follow up posts saying the hold up is that NE is trying to get the 10-Game condition removed so that the Pats just receive the 7th outright. Lol Pats just have to have that 7th round pick, even though they only trade Jimmy G for a second round pick only. Sometimes I wonder what BB is thinking is good value. Just get the deal done with so Josh Gordon can finally practice here already. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 19, 2018 12:18:12 GMT -5
Gordon at practice, wearing #10. His former #12 wasn't available.
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