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Red Sox vs. Dodgers 2018 World Series Gameday Thread
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Post by Smittyw on Oct 29, 2018 14:44:26 GMT -5
Should they visit the White House? I hope not ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I really don't care either way, but I'm sure partisan sniping from one or both sides will ensue no matter what they choose to do, and I'm not looking forward to that.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 29, 2018 14:48:41 GMT -5
As big as the results was Cora using it the way he did AND all those guys being willing to take the ball every single day. We won game 4 partly because Baez (and Urias) was unavailable and Hill told Roberts to watch him closely then just handed him the ball as soon as he got to the mound. Eovaldi and Porcello both told Cora they’d pitch in game 4 for crying out loud.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 29, 2018 14:54:07 GMT -5
Should they visit the White House? I hope not ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I really don't care either way, but I'm sure partisan sniping from one or both sides will ensue no matter what they choose to do, and I'm not looking forward to that. Yeah after the comments Trump made about Puerto Rico after the hurricane disaster, I would be shocked if Cora even gives it a thought. Maybe he sucks it up for the team, that'd be a lot of country pride to swallow though and I'm not sure I'd do it.
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Post by manfred on Oct 29, 2018 14:57:43 GMT -5
Pardon my sarcasm, but just more of the same shallow drivel hubris in which the Astros, Nyfy and LAD improve because, well, they probably will. I was amazed that his nyfy improvement is based on signing a top SP and either Harper or Machado. Whooopeee, more HR, and more conflict. Of course all the Astros players who had down years will all have good years and maybe trade for Goldie. The Dodgers will win when they re-sign Kershaw and bring up top prospects. The Sox will regress, he says, because past 100W teams have regressed, ergo, etc.. Brilliant analysis. He never considers the probability of this great team becoming even better: return of Pedroia, maturation of Beni, Devers, ERod and that Brasier kid, nor the potential of Eovaldi or Wright, the issues that Price, Porcello, Barnes, Kelly, Holt, Pearce, JBJ have resolved, the likely emergence of Chavis, Lakins, Feltman, nor the ability of DDo to make trades or sign a FA as needed. Underdogging the Sox is a wonderful thing, for the Sox and Sox fans. What terrible analysis to not acknowledge the obvious inevitability of every single player on your favorite team performing at their peak next year, and also not accounting for the unquestionably true fact that Manny Machado actually makes teams worse. I’m not even saying that I totally agree with the rankings, but the notion that you can’t rank those teams ahead of the Red Sox because they all lost to them in short series, especially when you’re ranking them for NEXT YEAR, is pure homerism. My point is only that given that literally nothing has changed since yesterday, to argue that all three teams that were demonstratively not as good as recently as, again, yesterday, are now better when nothing has changed is just a bit odd or requires a good deal of speculation. Even to say every player performed at peak, as you do, is speculation. Did Benny? Devers? JBJ? Sale, who missed a lot of time? ERod? Porcello, who has been better? And... might that not apply to the other teams, too? Is Kershaw ever going to be as good as he has been? Can Verlander maintain his performance as he enters his later 30s? The only evidence is what we literally just finished seeing. I'd have no problem if the Sox are ranked lower in January after there have been real changes. But I think putting them fourth now is clickbait -- the only reason to have that article is to be counter intuitive -- if they ranked them Sox, Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, Yankees and on, the article need not be written.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 29, 2018 15:06:20 GMT -5
Any one know why they wore the Friday blue uniforms yesterday and Sunday? I’m mildly curious.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 15:30:58 GMT -5
The perceived need for relief talent took neither the reality of post-season series - days off and it's all over when it's over so use what you have - into account. The names that were thrown out were no better, and in some cases worse, than what the team had on hand, a point Eric made over and over. They had everything they needed on hand already - some board members believed that and said it out loud. The proof is in the results. They blew threw the competition like a windstorm. Just a great team effort.
I don’t fully agree with this. Yeah, I think the weakness of the bullpen was somewhat overstated, but at the same time, the performance that they ultimately delivered was above and beyond any reasonable expectation. Like no one before hand was saying “the Red Sox bullpen is fine because Joe Kelly is about to go on the run of his life”, and he was hardly the only example there. What we saw from the bullpen was not something you could ever anticipate nor is it something you can replicate. And it’s pure hindsight to look at it now and believe it could have happened no other way. This is usually the same story for every team that wins the WS. Things went incredibly well after a season which wasn't a particularly lucky regular season with all of the injuries. Imagine if they did something like trade for Soria and then traded Joe Kelly to make room for him. I think if they had Wright, things would have been much easier for them. He could have been another Joe Kelly.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 15:33:00 GMT -5
Should they visit the White House? I hope not ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I really don't care either way, but I'm sure partisan sniping from one or both sides will ensue no matter what they choose to do, and I'm not looking forward to that. Politics is cancer. Good job media for creating that. The real division of people is every single one of the citizens vs. its corrupt government (no matter who is running it).
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 29, 2018 15:52:33 GMT -5
The perceived need for relief talent took neither the reality of post-season series - days off and it's all over when it's over so use what you have - into account. The names that were thrown out were no better, and in some cases worse, than what the team had on hand, a point Eric made over and over. They had everything they needed on hand already - some board members believed that and said it out loud. The proof is in the results. They blew threw the competition like a windstorm. Just a great team effort.
I don’t fully agree with this. Yeah, I think the weakness of the bullpen was somewhat overstated, but at the same time, the performance that they ultimately delivered was above and beyond any reasonable expectation. Like no one before hand was saying “the Red Sox bullpen is fine because Joe Kelly is about to go on the run of his life”, and he was hardly the only example there. What we saw from the bullpen was not something you could ever anticipate nor is it something you can replicate. And it’s pure hindsight to look at it now and believe it could have happened no other way. Probably overstated, but it wasn't as if we hadn't seen this Kelly before. He lost it, and then he found if for whatever reason. There were hints about why, but it wasn't as if he hadn't shown like this before. His excellence was more than made up for by the high-wire performances of Kimbrel, and yes there was a lot of luck involved. There always seems to be as others have said. Brasier was a little shakier, and Barnes a little better than the regular season, but they had the talent on board. I believed that then, and they came through. On balance it was as it always seems to be, some guys up and some down. But check out how the other pens in the playoffs faired: same, same. As I said, this was a team effort with players picking each other up. Branch Rickey's take is relevant here: Luck is the residue of good design. That guy knew what he was talking about.
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Post by patford on Oct 29, 2018 16:09:37 GMT -5
What terrible analysis to not acknowledge the obvious inevitability of every single player on your favorite team performing at their peak next year, and also not accounting for the unquestionably true fact that Manny Machado actually makes teams worse. I’m not even saying that I totally agree with the rankings, but the notion that you can’t rank those teams ahead of the Red Sox because they all lost to them in short series, especially when you’re ranking them for NEXT YEAR, is pure homerism. My point is only that given that literally nothing has changed since yesterday, to argue that all three teams that were demonstratively not as good as recently as, again, yesterday, are now better when nothing has changed is just a bit odd or requires a good deal of speculation. Even to say every player performed at peak, as you do, is speculation. Did Benny? Devers? JBJ? Sale, who missed a lot of time? ERod? Porcello, who has been better? And... might that not apply to the other teams, too? Is Kershaw ever going to be as good as he has been? Can Verlander maintain his performance as he enters his later 30s? The only evidence is what we literally just finished seeing. I'd have no problem if the Sox are ranked lower in January after there have been real changes. But I think putting them fourth now is clickbait -- the only reason to have that article is to be counter intuitive -- if they ranked them Sox, Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, Yankees and on, the article need not be written. There are a number of ways the Sox could be even better next year. The return of Pedroia, Marco Hernandez, Carson Smith, Thornburg. An improved Eduardo, Benintendi, Bradley, Vazquez, Swihart and Devers.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 29, 2018 16:14:12 GMT -5
What terrible analysis to not acknowledge the obvious inevitability of every single player on your favorite team performing at their peak next year, and also not accounting for the unquestionably true fact that Manny Machado actually makes teams worse. I’m not even saying that I totally agree with the rankings, but the notion that you can’t rank those teams ahead of the Red Sox because they all lost to them in short series, especially when you’re ranking them for NEXT YEAR, is pure homerism. My point is only that given that literally nothing has changed since yesterday, to argue that all three teams that were demonstratively not as good as recently as, again, yesterday, are now better when nothing has changed is just a bit odd or requires a good deal of speculation. Even to say every player performed at peak, as you do, is speculation. Did Benny? Devers? JBJ? Sale, who missed a lot of time? ERod? Porcello, who has been better? And... might that not apply to the other teams, too? Is Kershaw ever going to be as good as he has been? Can Verlander maintain his performance as he enters his later 30s? The only evidence is what we literally just finished seeing. I'd have no problem if the Sox are ranked lower in January after there have been real changes. But I think putting them fourth now is clickbait -- the only reason to have that article is to be counter intuitive -- if they ranked them Sox, Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, Yankees and on, the article need not be written. And my point is that nothing that happened yesterday proves that the Red Sox are automatically the best team headed into 2019. If you want to treat the playoffs as a system that determines who the most talented team is with perfect accuracy, I guess I can't stop you. But that's not what they are.
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Post by ramireja on Oct 29, 2018 16:15:36 GMT -5
Let's please enjoy this season and recent victory and refrain from politics here specifically. If we need to debate whether the Sox should visit the White House, let's move that to another thread/forum.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 29, 2018 16:22:58 GMT -5
No matter how you put it, the Dodgers being ranked above the Red Sox is LOLtastic. I think the trio of Red Sox, Yankees and Astros are clearly above everyone else.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 16:25:59 GMT -5
One other thing I do other than stay away from politics as much as humanly possible - I don't read team rankings articles.
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Post by jmei on Oct 29, 2018 16:31:59 GMT -5
The joy for me of watching this team is not the rote, mechanistic exercise of projecting how sustainable the performance was. There is certainly analytical value in that, and plenty of time in the offseason to start thinking about how 2018 informs 2019 and beyond (and yes, it's impossible to resist slipping into it now and then, even on the day after a World Series win). No, Joe Kelly will not sustain his Super Saiyan form, Alex Cora's Midas touch will wear off, Eovaldi and Price won't be able to sustain awe-inspiring performances on short rest through sheer power of will. But for a few nights in October, they did all that, and it was awesome.
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Post by Canseco on Oct 29, 2018 16:35:15 GMT -5
One other thing I do other than stay away from politics as much as humanly possible - I don't read team rankings articles. Lists of “Power Rankings” are one of the worst aspects of modern sports. It is a lazy, thoughtless way of churning out click bait content. Totally pointless.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 16:36:06 GMT -5
The joy for me of watching this team is not the rote, mechanistic exercise of projecting how sustainable the performance was. There is certainly analytical value in that, and plenty of time in the offseason to start thinking about how 2018 informs 2019 and beyond (and yes, it's impossible to resist slipping into it now and then, even on the day after a World Series win). No, Joe Kelly will not sustain his Super Saiyan form, Alex Cora's Midas touch will wear off, Eovaldi and Price won't be able to sustain awe-inspiring performances on short rest through sheer power of will. But for a few nights in October, they did all that, and it was awesome. I vote for this to be narrated at the beginning of the 2018 WS DVD. Wish I could like it 100 times. I'm pretty damn concerned about next year's World Series hangover, because you know there is a price to pay for these pitchers who threw way too much this season. But the memories of 2018 will help me get by no matter what happens. I'll still be smiling. I'm sure the players wouldn't have it any other way. I'm so proud of our team. I'm even more glad that we don't have to do the mental gymnastics of having to root for someone like Manny Machado because he was on our team. I love all of our guys, every one of them.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 29, 2018 16:51:02 GMT -5
I will say it again the biggest move in the offseason was getting Cora. He didnt have a eight inning reliever and he goes outside the box with Porcello and even better Eovaldi. Never once panicked. If you think about it He barely got anything out of Sale.
Just a side note I under stand no politics but Sox go to White House and Cora can talk to Trump and tell him from his eyes what is getting done and not done in Puerto Rico. How much of an oppurtunity you have five minutes with Potus.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 17:02:34 GMT -5
If I could buy one thing to remember this season by, it would be a replica of the 119 photos on Alex Cora's office wall. How great would that be?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 29, 2018 17:17:36 GMT -5
The joy for me of watching this team is not the rote, mechanistic exercise of projecting how sustainable the performance was. There is certainly analytical value in that, and plenty of time in the offseason to start thinking about how 2018 informs 2019 and beyond (and yes, it's impossible to resist slipping into it now and then, even on the day after a World Series win). No, Joe Kelly will not sustain his Super Saiyan form, Alex Cora's Midas touch will wear off, Eovaldi and Price won't be able to sustain awe-inspiring performances on short rest through sheer power of will. But for a few nights in October, they did all that, and it was awesome. Call me crazy, but it's a lot less awesome if you assume that the outcome was never in doubt because the Red Sox are obviously so much better than every other team. Also y'all thought this team was doomed 36 hours ago so please miss me with the "OMG HOW COULD ANYONE RANK THE DODGERS AHEAD OF THE RED SOX" stuff.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 17:22:13 GMT -5
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 29, 2018 17:24:01 GMT -5
The joy for me of watching this team is not the rote, mechanistic exercise of projecting how sustainable the performance was. There is certainly analytical value in that, and plenty of time in the offseason to start thinking about how 2018 informs 2019 and beyond (and yes, it's impossible to resist slipping into it now and then, even on the day after a World Series win). No, Joe Kelly will not sustain his Super Saiyan form, Alex Cora's Midas touch will wear off, Eovaldi and Price won't be able to sustain awe-inspiring performances on short rest through sheer power of will. But for a few nights in October, they did all that, and it was awesome. Sure enough....all that glitters... But for one incredibly magical year it was the perfect amalgam conjured in the darkest alchemist's cavern and smoldering caldroun. So many contributors, so many performances above and beyond tapping the deepest reserves. This was sport at its purest essence.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2018 17:27:03 GMT -5
2004: Miracle 2007: Validation 2013: Overachieved 2018: Domination
Still have to go with 2004 as the best ever, but that was just because of the 86 year drought and because of coming back from 3-0 to the Yankees. But 2018 was the most impressive, most dominant team in Red Sox history.
Damage done.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 29, 2018 17:30:03 GMT -5
What an incredible season, playoffs. It was more than I could have ever hoped for following my favorite sports team ever. 4 titles in 15 years, it seems an embarrassment of riches from where I started as a fan.
Thanks to everyone for sharing it with me. I stand ready to be there next year to watch this great team. At this point, all the pains of the past are just forgotten memories.
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Post by soxjim on Oct 29, 2018 17:33:04 GMT -5
The perceived need for relief talent took neither the reality of post-season series - days off and it's all over when it's over so use what you have - into account. The names that were thrown out were no better, and in some cases worse, than what the team had on hand, a point Eric made over and over. They had everything they needed on hand already - some board members believed that and said it out loud. The proof is in the results. They blew threw the competition like a windstorm. Just a great team effort.
I don’t fully agree with this. Yeah, I think the weakness of the bullpen was somewhat overstated, but at the same time, the performance that they ultimately delivered was above and beyond any reasonable expectation. Like no one before hand was saying “the Red Sox bullpen is fine because Joe Kelly is about to go on the run of his life”, and he was hardly the only example there. What we saw from the bullpen was not something you could ever anticipate nor is it something you can replicate. And it’s pure hindsight to look at it now and believe it could have happened no other way. The takeaway is that it was overstated. The Sox going 11-3 and no one pushing them to a decisive game and the two same 7 game series not being pushed beyond 5 was nothing short of dominant. You can never expect that because it would mean the bullpen needed to be dominant as well. But the same time as an example the sports editor of one the papers I read called teh SOx bullpen "atrocious." Which was ridiculous. Heck many people realized Eovaldi could probably be effective in the bullpen too and we saw for a time Price and Sale be effective last year. And any baseball fan saw what Houston did last year. It was common sense to figure that's what the SOx were going to do. And if you live near New York and listen to the radio--you would have heard a herd mentality of overstating the Yanks bullpen and understating the performance of what the Sox did. Heck-- even Cashman mouthed off. What GM does that in recent memory during a tight race? I guess I don't see it from other teams. I was stunned he mouthed off the way he did but it just highlights hubris and lack of respect (you think he felt eh had a huge advantage in the bullpen?). Though I know he was very gracious from what I heard in defeat. And I read some analytics site at the beginning of the year saying of the Yanks "this could be one of the greatest bullpens of all time . . ." which is why the Yanks got a lot of pre-season love. I wanted to reply "Gimme a break . . ." -- Predicting that type of garbage before a season starts is just click bait hype just as calling the Red Sox bullpen "atrocious." Overrating the impact of the bullpen and at the same time underrating another teams starters that can also be bullpen pitchers is something I feel is being done to an extreme. I saw it with Lackey. I saw Bum come in. I saw Price do it last year. And years ago I begged Minnesota to do it vs the Yanks but Gardenhire didn't have the guts. As long as the Sox arms are healthy, next year's Sox team of this year is just as good as any other team's "bullpen" come playoff time. My God-- the Sox have three CY winners or close to it and if they sign Eovaldi another beast. The brewers or A's or Yanks bullpens are just as likely to either get worn down or be significantly less effective next year too. We've seen many "one-hit wonders" from the bullpen and it's not just the Sox.
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Post by redsox3in10 on Oct 29, 2018 17:36:28 GMT -5
2004: Miracle 2007: Validation 2013: Overachieved 2018: Domination Still have to go with 2004 as the best ever, but that was just because of the 86 year drought and because of coming back from 3-0 to the Yankees. But 2018 was the most impressive, most dominant team in Red Sox history. Damage done. I like this a lot, but may change 2013 to "Inspiration". I really think the Boston Strong feeling had a lot to do with that team winning that year. Yes, they overachieved. But they did it through an inspiring story and some inspiring leadership. That was really the "Legend of Big Papi".
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