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Nathan Eovaldi (re-signed: 4 years/$68 million)
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 6, 2018 12:22:55 GMT -5
Sox have their Closer
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 6, 2018 12:24:47 GMT -5
At 17 million a year, basically market value, not sure what there is to dislike. It could be that others weren't enamored, but he doesn't have to pitch like an Ace at that cost.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Dec 6, 2018 12:27:02 GMT -5
Eovaldi is not a closer right now, but he may be after two more years. I like the deal as it helps the Red Sox re-load for another run at the World Series in 2019, plus gives them some depth should they lose Sale and/or Porcello after the 2019 season.
Next move should be to get a closer and another late inning guy. I would go with Octavio as the closer, with Britton or Herrera as late inning guys. Kimbrell wants too much money and years... Miller is getting up there in age, increasing the risk of injury and downside risk.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 6, 2018 12:32:56 GMT -5
I want no part of bringing back Kimbrel, he lost it about 2/3rds of the way through the season and was never the same. Take the draft pick and move on.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2018 12:34:50 GMT -5
I'd say you're just about the only guy that thinks so.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Dec 6, 2018 12:36:13 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on Dec 6, 2018 12:39:16 GMT -5
Rather than turn this thread into a debate regarding Eovaldi as a starter vs. closer, lets just accept the fact that dmaineah prefers him as a reliever and the entire rest of the board does not. Done.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 6, 2018 12:41:38 GMT -5
At 17 million a year, basically market value, not sure what there is to dislike. It could be that others weren't enamored, but he doesn't have to pitch like an Ace at that cost. Well said. The Sox Rotation for 2019 is awesome and deep. It even sounds good. Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi, ERod, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez, Shawaryn, Shepherd. In terms of depth I still hope on an extended “show me” contract for a healthy Pom as 6th starter. Every possible advantage helps to repeat.
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danr
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Post by danr on Dec 6, 2018 12:42:02 GMT -5
I guess I'll be the first to write that the MFYs just whiffed on the two best FA SPs, and best by a fair margin.
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Canseco
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Post by Canseco on Dec 6, 2018 12:44:59 GMT -5
...plus gives them some depth should they lose Sale and/or Porcello after the 2019 season. This is my thought. We just signed an electric, high upside arm for 17m AAV. It should give us a cushion if/when a tough decision needs to be made on Sale. A durable horse like Porcello, to me, is a guy we should be extending without a second thought—even with his occasional inconsistencies. The price tag obviously won’t be nearly as large as Sale’s.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2018 12:45:16 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2018 12:59:57 GMT -5
Nope. And he was also guaranteed a postseason roster spot last year as well. You've got strange issues with certain players.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 6, 2018 13:00:39 GMT -5
Is there a complicated German word for that feeling where the irrational part of you is happy but the rational part of you know it isn't a good idea but the rational side also knows that it's probably a good time to just let the irrational side have its moment? This is me as well. I love the rockstar performance by Eovaldi in the post-season as much as anyone, but besides the obvious injury risk there's also the jarring discrepancy between his stuff and his actual production. I can't even pinpoint why, it's not even as obvious as it is for someone Kelly and that makes it kind of a red flag. On the other hand, the upside here is undeniable. If everything goes smoothly, Eovaldi has the repertoire to be a very strong #2 next to Sale. The rotation is set for the foreseeable future and there's obvious benefits to that. I think this point is especially true for the 2011-2016 version of Eovaldi, but wouldn't you say that Eovaldi performed like a #2/#3 pitcher last year which lines up better with his repertoire? He set personal bests for K% (22.2% compared to 14.8%-18.5% range in previous years), BB% (4.4% compared to 5.0%-8.9% range in previous years), WHIP (1.13 compared to 1.31-1.51 range in previous years), ERA- (89 compared to 92-121 range in previous years), and had his 2nd best FIP- (87 compared to 82-115 range in previous years). The old Eovaldi was a classic #4/5 pitcher with elite velocity which was puzzling. But if you believe in this version of Eovaldi (I do), then I think you're looking at a #2/#3 with the obvious injury risk.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2018 13:04:25 GMT -5
I want no part of bringing back Kimbrel, he lost it about 2/3rds of the way through the season and was never the same. Take the draft pick and move on. I could go either way with him; he had no spring training, dealt with his daughters illness and didn’t lose any of his stuff. Considering the external factors him having an off year which was still strong just not elite is understandable. If his velocity was off then I’d be more concerned. He had some great outings after the Gagne reports as well. Plus, we have a manager that won’t force feed the closer in the post season just because of his title.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2018 13:05:36 GMT -5
I'm skeptical that Eovaldi can remain a fastball/cutter pitcher and hope that he can continue working his splitter into the rotation. I don't think his slider is different enough from his cutter to even be considered a different pitch. With throwing just the two pitches, he'll be more susceptible to times through the order penalties.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 6, 2018 13:10:09 GMT -5
This is me as well. I love the rockstar performance by Eovaldi in the post-season as much as anyone, but besides the obvious injury risk there's also the jarring discrepancy between his stuff and his actual production. I can't even pinpoint why, it's not even as obvious as it is for someone Kelly and that makes it kind of a red flag. On the other hand, the upside here is undeniable. If everything goes smoothly, Eovaldi has the repertoire to be a very strong #2 next to Sale. The rotation is set for the foreseeable future and there's obvious benefits to that. I am sunny-siding it this way: Hoping he figured stuff out as a starter, but if he has problems down the road in years 3 or 4 getting through the 2nd or 3rd time through the order, he is being paid the same $$ as a top closer and could slide into that role, or even as a two inning high leverage guy. As long as he's healthy it's winner-winner pasta dinner! It’ll be interesting to see how much the Red Sox want to dive into our brave new world of pitcher flexibility, but I do think Eovaldi’s demonstrated ability as a reliever — even if the team is mainly going to use him as a starter — is maybe a little bit undervalued. Like you said, it could be useful down the road, but I could see them using him out of the bullpen to start next season. Cora has already talked about wanting to take it easy on the pitchers he used heavily in the playoffs to start next season, and they probably want to get Eovaldi to next October with probably not a lot more than 150 innings pitched to that point. So would they just use him as an Andrew Miller/Josh Hader style reliever for a month or two and then stretch him out to start? Not something I would have suggested as a real possibility even a year ago probably, but flexible pitcher usage is suddenly sexy in the game and I don’t think player buy-in would be an issue under Cora either.
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Post by jchang on Dec 6, 2018 13:15:14 GMT -5
awesome, now get Kelly
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 6, 2018 13:17:27 GMT -5
Trolls, feed them, do not, etc etc.
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For maybe the first two months of the season I'd love to see Sale and Eovaldi used as once-through-the order starters for maybe every other start. You get valuable innings out of them, you build a lead with what will still be a first class offense, and you keep their innings down for the pennant race. On top of that, you keep a couple guys (Velazquez, Wright, Johnson, whoever) built up. It's probably only a shift of about 20-25 innings each, spread out over two months. And you get the advantage of being able to tell what kind of leverage you need in relief that day. If you have a one-run lead, maybe use Velazquez for two innings and then the traditional bullpen for four. If you build up like a nine-run lead, let Velazquez go as long as he can.
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Post by patford on Dec 6, 2018 13:31:45 GMT -5
Just for context. The Sox qualifying offer to Kimbrel was 18 million.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 6, 2018 14:06:34 GMT -5
I want no part of bringing back Kimbrel, he lost it about 2/3rds of the way through the season and was never the same. Take the draft pick and move on. I could go either way with him; he had no spring training, dealt with his daughters illness and didn’t lose any of his stuff. Considering the external factors him having an off year which was still strong just not elite is understandable. If his velocity was off then I’d be more concerned. He had some great outings after the Gagne reports as well. Plus, we have a manager that won’t force feed the closer in the post season just because of his title. He's not worth the money that will need to be allocated to Betts et al in the upcoming years. Eovaldi is different because he is a starter and his price wasn't crazy. Kimbrel honestly wasn't that much different than Barnes last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2018 14:42:29 GMT -5
I could go either way with him; he had no spring training, dealt with his daughters illness and didn’t lose any of his stuff. Considering the external factors him having an off year which was still strong just not elite is understandable. If his velocity was off then I’d be more concerned. He had some great outings after the Gagne reports as well. Plus, we have a manager that won’t force feed the closer in the post season just because of his title. He's not worth the money that will need to be allocated to Betts et al in the upcoming years. Eovaldi is different because he is a starter and his price wasn't crazy. Kimbrel honestly wasn't that much different than Barnes last year. I think that says a lot more about Barnes than Kimbrel. At one point you could have made a good case that Barnes was the best set-up guy in Baseball or close to it.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 6, 2018 14:50:34 GMT -5
To start the season Eovaldi will be used as a Starter to help Sale, Price & Porcello ease into the season and then he will become the teams Closer. Wright will become the #5 starter.
I believe that's what is best for the team & Eovaldi. And, that's why & what he was signed to do & will do. He will be the Closer.
That's my hope because that's what I think is best.
Also, unless a middle releif pitcher falls into their lap at a very good price I think DD's off season is done.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 6, 2018 14:53:31 GMT -5
If he becomes the closer in the post season, thats one thing, especially if Porcello and ERod have strong years and they need someone better than Barnes/whatever they get in free agency.
I don't think it makes sense for the regular season. Bringing in Eovaldi to close 2, 3, and even 4 run leads is a waste.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 6, 2018 15:00:28 GMT -5
I could go either way with him; he had no spring training, dealt with his daughters illness and didn’t lose any of his stuff. Considering the external factors him having an off year which was still strong just not elite is understandable. If his velocity was off then I’d be more concerned. He had some great outings after the Gagne reports as well. Plus, we have a manager that won’t force feed the closer in the post season just because of his title. He's not worth the money that will need to be allocated to Betts et al in the upcoming years. Eovaldi is different because he is a starter and his price wasn't crazy. Kimbrel honestly wasn't that much different than Barnes last year. [ In a vacuum he could be well worth the money. But if the Sox are intent on re-setting the cap in 2020, the ~$15M difference between Craig Kimbrel and, say, Durbin Feltman in 2020 would be significant. It could make the difference in extending another of the awesome XB, JDM, Sale, Porcello group whose contracts expire after 2019. The same could be said of any new big contract. We know the re-set $208M cap will permit signing 2 of them. Getting that to 3 would be better.
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Post by soxpatsceltics on Dec 6, 2018 15:09:31 GMT -5
With this signing, the Sox are now less than 3 million below the top luxury tax line if I'm not mistaken. Without adding to the bullpen... I'd think that the Sox would be looking to free up some minor money. Trading Nunez and his 5 million, drafting Max Schrock in the rule 5 draft, and re-investing Nunez's cash into a reliever would be a series of moves that works for me.
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