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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 8, 2019 8:13:17 GMT -5
The last post I'll make is about Gordon Hayward specifically. If he still looks bad, I hope Danny is ready to get creative and trade him and maybe future assets/first round picks to go get Kevin Love if Hayward isn't doing anything again.
You can make a case that Kevin Love is a better fit regardless right now, because he's a true PF/small ball Center anyways (this team has enough wings and guards, at the moment).
I hope it doesn't come to that, but Hayward looked really bad last year. Unplayable a lot and wasn't the same guy. He's got to turn into a important piece or Danny has to ship him out of here for a better player who will fill that role.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 8, 2019 8:59:27 GMT -5
Narratively speaking (is that a thing) I think you split up Smart and Hayward as both could see significant time running the offense with Kemba getting several looks from off the ball. Maybe it's Kemba/Brown starting and Edwards/Smart on the 2nd unit? Hayward runs much of the offense with the starters and Marcus takes the lead from the bench???
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2019 9:06:32 GMT -5
Kemba's development will be key. How fast can he adjust from going from taking the 3rd most shots in the league to becoming a team first guy on offense? He's a skilled scorer and one of Brad Steven's best attributes is what he sets up for the PG position when it comes to scoring. Isaah Thomas was a force here, Kyrie put up career years here statistically. It's going to be hard to take Smart out with Kemba on the floor, too. Smart is going to have to take a bigger role as floor general on offense with Horford now gone. I have a feeling that we are still going to be seeing a lot of games where Stevens is electing to start Smart instead of Brown. The great news is, this team should be extremely durable. No more of your best players like Kyrie and Horford missing a lot of games. I'm not sure if Langford will see much time this year. It wouldn't surprise me to see Carson Edwards play more minutes this season than Langford. Grant Williams should play a lot of minutes off the bench, too. The one unknown to me and probably all of us is Time Lord. Can he take on major minutes? Can he handle the rest of the big men defensively in the NBA yet? Time Lord is the best fit if he's ready to do all that. He's the perfect small ball center that moves quick and is super athletic. Hopefully he develops a jump shot to keep teams honest, at least. To me, Time Lord is third biggest key. First is the adjustment of Kemba to this offense. Second is Hayward's rebound this year. Third is the development of Time Lord. A couple things, I don’t see why Smart has to be on the floor with Walker and why that relates to Horford... Williams is not a Small ball center. I think I know what you’re trying to say just don’t think it’s the terminology you want to use. Oddly, enough, one of his bigger weaknesses last year was his inability to run the floor for more than a couple minutes at a time. This is why he’s actually dropped weight this year. He was working on his conditioning and ability to run the floor. It wasn’t because he was fat or because he wasn’t fast or quick it was because he wasn’t well conditioned. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2019 9:08:56 GMT -5
Narratively speaking (is that a thing) I think you split up Smart and Hayward as both could see significant time running the offense with Kemba getting several looks from off the ball. Maybe it's Kemba/Brown starting and Edwards/Smart on the 2nd unit? Hayward runs much of the offense with the starters and Marcus takes the lead from the bench??? In an ideal world, where NBA players could actually adapt to different situations, you’d change the starting lineup nightly based off of matchups. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2019 10:31:28 GMT -5
I have no idea why you'd want to try and make Robert Williams a small ball center. He's a new age NBA center. He's a rim running, defensive, rebounding center. Like I want him to focus on the little things like team D, not trying to block everything, position, screens, passing, etc. I'll worry about expanding his offense down the road in a few years. He's basically your only Baynes type player this year. You'll need him against the better low post scoring bigs. Even as raw as he was last year he still put up top notch defensive box score numbers. Type of guy that can make teams think about driving to the Basket.
I do have to say I never noticed an inability to run the court. He didn't play a ton, but I watched that Pelicans game and didn't notice that and he played 29 minutes and was blocking Anthony Davis all the time. After that he had a groin injury and didn't play big minutes for a long time. I'm going to guess that gave him issues. Every College center needs to improve, the NBA game is very different. I just didn't see can't run the court for more than three minutes before the groin injury.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2019 10:45:46 GMT -5
I have no idea why you'd want to try and make Robert Williams a small ball center. He's a new age NBA center. He's a rim running, defensive, rebounding center. Like I want him to focus on the little things like team D, not trying to block everything, position, screens, passing, etc. I'll worry about expanding his offense down the road in a few years. He's basically your only Baynes type player this year. You'll need him against the better low post scoring bigs. Even as raw as he was last year he still put up top notch defensive box score numbers. Type of guy that can make teams think about driving to the Basket. I do have to say I never noticed an inability to run the court. He didn't play a ton, but I watched that Pelicans game and didn't notice that and he played 29 minutes and was blocking Anthony Davis all the time. After that he had a groin injury and didn't play big minutes for a long time. I'm going to guess that gave him issues. Every College center needs to improve, the NBA game is very different. I just didn't see can't run the court for more than three minutes before the groin injury. It was either BRobb or Jeff Howe who had it in one of their recent articles about how it was an issue. Had quotes from Robert talking about it and his focus this offseason on conditioning for this reason. I didn’t notice it either but I’m not sure we would given his limited minutes. It’s not necessarily an easy thing to spot from the TV either. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 8, 2019 10:52:44 GMT -5
Robert Williams had 5.1 blocks per 36 minutes last year which is kind of nuts. I guess it's probably not that meaningful to extrapolate from such a small number of minutes. The only guy higher than that last year was Chris Boucher at 5.3.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2019 10:56:30 GMT -5
The last post I'll make is about Gordon Hayward specifically. If he still looks bad, I hope Danny is ready to get creative and trade him and maybe future assets/first round picks to go get Kevin Love if Hayward isn't doing anything again. You can make a case that Kevin Love is a better fit regardless right now, because he's a true PF/small ball Center anyways (this team has enough wings and guards, at the moment). I hope it doesn't come to that, but Hayward looked really bad last year. Unplayable a lot and wasn't the same guy. He's got to turn into a important piece or Danny has to ship him out of here for a better player who will fill that role. Just my two cents, but for me Small Ball centers create mismatches, it's not just about shooting. Kevin Love is slow and a very bad defender. Guys like Draymond Green and Horford abuse him at center and he becomes a liability. It's why the Cavs needed to play Thompson with him. Given his huge new contract, I wouldn't trade a ton for him. His offensive game certainly fits very well. We do have Robert Williams if he develops to cover him defensively. I don't like playing Tatum, Hayward, and Brown together with Walker. That almost feels like last year all over again where two players are going to dominate the ball too much. Love could help, but given that contract and his age I'd like something better unless they just want to give him away. After this year even if Hayward still isn't great you'll have a massive expiring contract and that will be huge. Let's just hope Stevens makes Hayward earn his minutes this year! Let's also hope he makes it his mission to get Tatum and Brown the ball. I'd still make him a bench guy unless the old Hayward is back to start next year. I don't like starting Tatum at PF and want Tatum and Brown as my #2 and #3 options on offense. A guy like Grant Williams with his passing and not needing the ball seems to fit better. Heck with Kanter maybe start Semi for his D if he came improve his offense even a little bit. It's not just about putting the best talent out there, but a group that fits together the right way both offensively and defensively. Let's hope Stevens learned that lesson last year! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2019 11:07:29 GMT -5
I haven't watched Walker a ton, but everything you hear is he's a team player. So at the minimum he'll run the offense and not change the plays. He's never played with much talent. Look at last year, the second best player was Jeremy Lamb. So I have faith and he turned down more money to win.
The key will be him driving and passing. That sucks in the D, opening the lanes for Tatum and Brown. If he does that we'll be just fine. I really think he'll fit in perfectly and play Celtic Basketball. He just wants to win at this point in his career.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2019 11:12:27 GMT -5
Robert Williams had 5.1 blocks per 36 minutes last year which is kind of nuts. I guess it's probably not that meaningful to extrapolate from such a small number of minutes. The only guy higher than that last year was Chris Boucher at 5.3. When you block Anthony Davis multiple times a game when he's shooting jumpers, the numbers mean something. The only issue is him trying to block everything hurt his overall D. He's young and he'll learn, yet we haven't had a rim protector like him in a long time. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 8, 2019 11:18:14 GMT -5
I don't like starting Tatum at PF and want Tatum and Brown as my #2 and #3 options on offense. The problem with not starting Tatum at the 4 is that it's a significant drop in quality for all the other options. Grant is probably too raw for you to count on him and there's really no one else that's good enough to do it. I like Semi, but if you're starting Semi then you might as well start Tatum there. Both are big wings. I think Stevens is probably thinking Kemba-GH-JB-JT-Kanter, maybe Smart in for Hayward. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 8, 2019 14:41:30 GMT -5
As a lot of "experts" suggested during the Capela talk, Stevens dream is 1 ball handler (Kemba), 3 wings (1 of whom can be a secondary handler - Brown/Tatum/Hayward) and a rim protector/runner (now, ideally, R Williams).
Smart runs the show on the 2nd unit with Edwards/Kanter your primary scorers. Williams/Semi battling for Swing minutes. Light on D (especially in the interior) so Theis could get some rim protection time. It's probably not ideal but might maximize what you have.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2019 14:42:47 GMT -5
I don't like starting Tatum at PF and want Tatum and Brown as my #2 and #3 options on offense. The problem with not starting Tatum at the 4 is that it's a significant drop in quality for all the other options. Grant is probably too raw for you to count on him and there's really no one else that's good enough to do it. I like Semi, but if you're starting Semi then you might as well start Tatum there. Both are big wings. I think Stevens is probably thinking Kemba-GH-JB-JT-Kanter, maybe Smart in for Hayward. Semi is a better low post defender which is what UMass doesn’t like about Tatum at the 4... i believe that’s right anyway. I’m not so sure Grant is too raw. He’s a pretty polished player. It may depend on where his shot is in its development. He should pick up the rest pretty quickly. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2019 15:28:47 GMT -5
Tatum is 208 pounds, Horford was 245, Morris 235, Semi is 241. Tatum is closer in weight to PGs than true PFs. If your starting Kanter and Tatum that just spells disaster for our D. RJP is 100% correct it's all about post D. Semi while undersized is crazy strong and an elite athlete. He can defend most PFs in this league at a high level.
Now if your starting Robert Williams at center, then you can likely get away with Tatum at PF against certain teams. You can also use Tatum as a small ball PF. Tatum has good length, but is crazy young and hasn't filled out yet.
Don you complained about Horford playing small for years and want Tatum at PF? It works offensively, but will kill your D and rebounding.
Like go look at the PFs in the NBA and tell me how many Tatum can guard? It's why I want Grant Williams to start and if he's not ready than Semi at least against certain teams.
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Post by philarhody on Jul 8, 2019 15:43:12 GMT -5
Tatum is 208 pounds, Horford was 245, Morris 235, Semi is 241. Tatum is closer in weight to PGs than true PFs. If your starting Kanter and Tatum that just spells disaster for our D. RJP is 100% correct it's all about post D. Semi while undersized is crazy strong and an elite athlete. He can defend most PFs in this league at a high level. Now if your starting Robert Williams at center, then you can likely get away with Tatum at PF against certain teams. You can also use Tatum as a small ball PF. Tatum has good length, but is crazy young and hasn't filled out yet. Don you complained about Horford playing small for years and want Tatum at PF? It works offensively, but will kill your D and rebounding. Like go look at the PFs in the NBA and tell me how many Tatum can guard? It's why I want Grant Williams to start and if he's not ready than Semi at least against certain teams. Tatum can guard most of the PF’s in the league. If you think Tatum is the defensive liability in a Kanter/Tatum frontcourt, you’ve got bigger issues. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2019 16:28:50 GMT -5
Tatum is 208 pounds, Horford was 245, Morris 235, Semi is 241. Tatum is closer in weight to PGs than true PFs. If your starting Kanter and Tatum that just spells disaster for our D. RJP is 100% correct it's all about post D. Semi while undersized is crazy strong and an elite athlete. He can defend most PFs in this league at a high level. Now if your starting Robert Williams at center, then you can likely get away with Tatum at PF against certain teams. You can also use Tatum as a small ball PF. Tatum has good length, but is crazy young and hasn't filled out yet. Don you complained about Horford playing small for years and want Tatum at PF? It works offensively, but will kill your D and rebounding. Like go look at the PFs in the NBA and tell me how many Tatum can guard? It's why I want Grant Williams to start and if he's not ready than Semi at least against certain teams. Tatum can guard most of the PF’s in the league. If you think Tatum is the defensive liability in a Kanter/Tatum frontcourt, you’ve got bigger issues. To be fair he said the combo Is a disaster not that Tatum was worse than Kanter. Neither can cover for the other. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 8, 2019 17:42:59 GMT -5
I’m not so sure Grant is too raw. He’s a pretty polished player. It may depend on where his shot is in its development. He should pick up the rest pretty quickly. I'm sure he's polished for a rookie, but I don't think the Celtics are counting on him to be ready enough to start. That would be somewhat irresponsible because the team is still competing. He's a rookie, it's just tough to rely on rookies. The plan is probably Tatum, maybe Semi if Tatum doesn't work. You only consider starting Grant if everything else fails or if he truly impresses. Don you complained about Horford playing small for years and want Tatum at PF? It works offensively, but will kill your D and rebounding. Like go look at the PFs in the NBA and tell me how many Tatum can guard? It's why I want Grant Williams to start and if he's not ready than Semi at least against certain teams. I don't want Tatum to start necessarily, I just think that's the plan. The roster is a bit wonky in that there are 3 starting caliber wings and no real PF option. I'm also not sure even Brad knows which players are going to see significant minutes. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2019 19:16:39 GMT -5
It’s worth noting Brad looks at positions as ball handlers, wings and bigs. He likes to play 3 wings. If Tatum is matched up with a 4 like Randle he just needs to win the matchup on offense more than he loses it on D. Matchups are 2 way streets.
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burk
Rookie
Posts: 22 
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Post by burk on Jul 8, 2019 19:59:31 GMT -5
Taco doing work in summer league right now! I’m not a Grant Williams fan, flopped all time when playing D at UT, of course, I preface by saying I’m a UK fan. I like Waters a lot, very good at LSU! Just Observing this Summer League game.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 8, 2019 21:05:27 GMT -5
Taco doing work in summer league right now! I’m not a Grant Williams fan, flopped all time when playing D at UT, of course, I preface by saying I’m a UK fan. I like Waters a lot, very good at LSU! Just Observing this Summer League game. Grant Williams, on 2 games, is Tatum light. He is very savvy. He is smart, experienced and sound. He is not going to light up the board but will do the little things. Time Lord is arriving. What a run and jump athlete. Waters and Lawson are so quick and energized. Each is better defensively than Isaiah. I am not sold on Tacko. He obviously is tall but can't jump...His dunks are standstill. He is slow... |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 8, 2019 21:28:45 GMT -5
It’s worth noting Brad looks at positions as ball handlers, wings and bigs. He likes to play 3 wings. If Tatum is matched up with a 4 like Randle he just needs to win the matchup on offense more than he loses it on D. Matchups are 2 way streets. Good point, the Stevens system is a bit unorthodox. I think the roster signals a clear intention to run and gun. Kembra is a fast break PG, Tatum is an explosive transition weapon, Smart is a full court QB, Langford is a great athlete, and so on. The loss of Horford also plays into that idea, his game was centered around the pick and pop and herky jerky post moves, both of which slow down the offense. I like it. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 9, 2019 4:32:19 GMT -5
It’s worth noting Brad looks at positions as ball handlers, wings and bigs. He likes to play 3 wings. If Tatum is matched up with a 4 like Randle he just needs to win the matchup on offense more than he loses it on D. Matchups are 2 way streets. Good point, the Stevens system is a bit unorthodox. I think the roster signals a clear intention to run and gun. Kembra is a fast break PG, Tatum is an explosive transition weapon, Smart is a full court QB, Langford is a great athlete, and so on. The loss of Horford also plays into that idea, his game was centered around the pick and pop and herky jerky post moves, both of which slow down the offense. I like it. Stevens sure does love his shootouts, no doubt about that. The Celtics have historically preferred to outscore the other team under Stevens. This might be a team that disappears defensively often, so they better score. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2019 8:26:02 GMT -5
What the hell is wrong with this guy? The Celtics need to have a conversation with him. We are trying to stash him my man, not lose him to another squad.
“Personally, I think he deserves a spot on an NBA team,” Morrison said. “Hopefully, down the road it will be our team. But he went undrafted. That’s kind of the approach I’ve taken with him: ‘You’re out here to prove something. Let’s show them that you’re more than what maybe some people think.’ And if there was anybody on the fence on draft night, hopefully they’re seeing today that he’d be worth a shot.”
I’ve kinda bought in on Tacko. Yabu should be gone and Tacko should either get a 2 way or an actual roster spot with Waters getting the other. I’m going to assume Strus keeps his 2 way deal. I kinda hope he does too because shooters with his size and defensive ability are pretty much gold in today’s NBA so his ceiling is so much higher.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2019 10:38:16 GMT -5
Tatum is 208 pounds, Horford was 245, Morris 235, Semi is 241. Tatum is closer in weight to PGs than true PFs. If your starting Kanter and Tatum that just spells disaster for our D. RJP is 100% correct it's all about post D. Semi while undersized is crazy strong and an elite athlete. He can defend most PFs in this league at a high level. Now if your starting Robert Williams at center, then you can likely get away with Tatum at PF against certain teams. You can also use Tatum as a small ball PF. Tatum has good length, but is crazy young and hasn't filled out yet. Don you complained about Horford playing small for years and want Tatum at PF? It works offensively, but will kill your D and rebounding. Like go look at the PFs in the NBA and tell me how many Tatum can guard? It's why I want Grant Williams to start and if he's not ready than Semi at least against certain teams. Tatum can guard most of the PF’s in the league. If you think Tatum is the defensive liability in a Kanter/Tatum frontcourt, you’ve got bigger issues. You are basing that on what? The fact we've never seen it says everything. Teams will game plan like crazy to attack the paint and do pick and rolls with those two. No one seems to have an issue with a PF that would be giving up 30 plus most nights and isn't some elite athlete. Like I can't wait watching guys like Giannis, Davis, Griffin, Randle, Gordon, Horford, Aldridge, Williamson, Jackson Jr., Bagley, Pascal, heck Tatum could struggle against even guys like Young in the paint unless he puts on 20 pounds. I'm not going to even bother try rating which one is the better defender, it's the combo. Having two defenders that will both be bad, then Hayward who was horrible last year. You'll have one of the worst front courts defensively in the whole NBA. Usually if you have a very bad defender you try and pair him up with a good defender. Think Bradley and Smart with Thomas, Brown and Smart with Irving. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2019 10:53:07 GMT -5
The best run Stevens has had as a coach can when he started Baynes and Horford. Along with using Semi for his D. He also used Morris at PF during that run. We actually had legit size, could rebound and defend. Almost made the finals, heck probably should have. This year he goes away from that, our D tanks and our offense was let's just say an issue.
Now everyone is OK with going back to having zero size? Like most of the board has wanted more size for years. Like do we really think this team can outscore teams and be a title contender? It can be one if it's a top defensive team. They went hard after Looney so they wanted D, but Kanter was the best they could do. Which is fine, you just need to pair him with a good defender. A legit big that can bang down low.
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