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6/17-6/19 Red Sox @ Twins Series Thread
bosox
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Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jun 18, 2019 21:50:18 GMT -5
Damn.
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cutz
Veteran
Posts: 2,326
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Post by cutz on Jun 18, 2019 21:51:24 GMT -5
Workman missed his spot by a foot
Damn walks!
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Post by telson13 on Jun 18, 2019 21:51:39 GMT -5
On Workman to Cruz, if you look at his 4FB use in the first 4 pitches it’s perfect. I know both were balls, but it’s what I’ve been talking about with him all year. He put two pitches in Cruz’s cold zones, in unhittable places. Cruz might not have chased, so they were balls, but they were awful close. That’s been Workman’s key all year (along with the CB low). It might lead to walks, but it’s also why batters are hitting, like .120 against him, with a .166 xBA and 0.069 against the FB. Dude is hitting his spots, and nowadays he’s doing it at 94 instead of 91-92. At some point we all need to acknowledge how freaking good his is now. It’s real.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 18, 2019 21:51:54 GMT -5
Dang.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 18, 2019 21:52:58 GMT -5
Ugh. Shoulda kept my mouth shut.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 18, 2019 21:53:09 GMT -5
Workman (wow what a transformation), Barnes (if you don't consistently expose him to high leverage). Walden...a big step forward but is it real or Memorex, and Brasier, is he back for good? ....are the ones I trust. Hembree worries me as being a spark away from self immolation. Shawaryn...not ready for prime time. He throws basically one speed....the league will catch up. Brewer, great stuff but poor command....can't rely on this guy either.
Wright is basically a starter and doesn't fit my profile for a reliever...knuckleball is always on a tightrope. He is an innings eater.
Eovaldi gradually works way back to starter by 8/15-8/30...in the meantime has pen work while completing recovery.
In sum, we need another reliable reliever.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 21:53:40 GMT -5
On Workman to Cruz, if you look at his 4FB use in the first 4 pitches it’s perfect. I know both were balls, but it’s what I’ve been talking about with him all year. He put two pitches in Cruz’s cold zones, in unhittable places. Cruz might not have chased, so they were balls, but they were awful close. That’s been Workman’s key all year (along with the CB low). It might lead to walks, but it’s also why batters are hitting, like .120 against him, with a .166 xBA and 0.069 against the FB. Dude is hitting his spots, and nowadays he’s doing it at 94 instead of 91-92. At some point we all need to acknowledge how freaking good his is now. It’s real. Well he gave up a run so they'll hate him for a week now.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 18, 2019 21:59:21 GMT -5
If Workman can not be consistent, then Cora should not put him in position to fail.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 22:01:28 GMT -5
If Workman can not be consistent, then Cora should not put him in position to fail. He's incredibly consistent - the league is batting less than .100 against him and he is tied for the most appearances in the AL. There is not a single pitcher that won't have a rough outing now and then.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 22:02:42 GMT -5
This game was going great on all cylinders until the 8th happened. JBJ great catches, Devers breakout, Vazquez's arm. Ohh well.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 18, 2019 22:04:23 GMT -5
On Workman to Cruz, if you look at his 4FB use in the first 4 pitches it’s perfect. I know both were balls, but it’s what I’ve been talking about with him all year. He put two pitches in Cruz’s cold zones, in unhittable places. Cruz might not have chased, so they were balls, but they were awful close. That’s been Workman’s key all year (along with the CB low). It might lead to walks, but it’s also why batters are hitting, like .120 against him, with a .166 xBA and 0.069 against the FB. Dude is hitting his spots, and nowadays he’s doing it at 94 instead of 91-92. At some point we all need to acknowledge how freaking good his is now. It’s real. Well he gave up a run so they'll hate him for a week now. And the lead...make it 2
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Post by kevfc89 on Jun 18, 2019 22:05:18 GMT -5
If Workman can not be consistent, then Cora should not put him in position to fail. He's incredibly consistent - the league is batting less than .100 against him and he is tied for the most appearances in the AL. There is not a single pitcher that won't have a rough outing now and then. im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jun 18, 2019 22:07:26 GMT -5
The pen certainly hasn't made it easy on themselves tonight.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 22:08:41 GMT -5
If we could get some consistency out of the offense, we wouldn't need to nitpick the pitching so much. Way too many "not cy young" pitchers shut down our bats this year...it is mystifying, really. As Cora said - the numbers look good, but the results are not really there yet. Last two games wasn't about driving in runner in scoring position (big issue this season) - it is about just getting runners on
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 22:09:28 GMT -5
The pen certainly hasn't made it easy on themselves tonight. Price going only 5 wasn't ideal, that's for sure.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 22:10:24 GMT -5
He's incredibly consistent - the league is batting less than .100 against him and he is tied for the most appearances in the AL. There is not a single pitcher that won't have a rough outing now and then. im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016Why wouldn't there be less complaints about Workman when he costs peanuts and they didn't trade 4 good prospects to get him? $13M closers have higher expectations.
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Post by bluechip on Jun 18, 2019 22:13:46 GMT -5
He's incredibly consistent - the league is batting less than .100 against him and he is tied for the most appearances in the AL. There is not a single pitcher that won't have a rough outing now and then. im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016 Walking over six per 9 innings is going to lead to some hairy innings. His BABIP and HR/FB have made him very useful.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 22:15:52 GMT -5
im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016 Walking over six per 9 innings is going to lead to some hairy innings. His BABIP and HR/FB have made him very useful. Some of those walks (not tonight, though) have been questionable - the umps really don't call his curve or high fastball very consistently.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 22:16:21 GMT -5
im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016 Walking over six per 9 innings is going to lead to some hairy innings. His BABIP and HR/FB have made him very useful. And unfortunately (or fortunately), the wildness likely highly correlates to the soft contact.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 22:16:41 GMT -5
im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016Why wouldn't there be less complaints about Workman when he costs peanuts and they didn't trade 4 good prospects to get him? $13M closers have higher expectations. What expectation did Kimbrel not exceed in Boston though? He won a title here, had 2 really good seasons, and one really great season here. I don't get it.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 18, 2019 22:16:43 GMT -5
He's incredibly consistent - the league is batting less than .100 against him and he is tied for the most appearances in the AL. There is not a single pitcher that won't have a rough outing now and then. im perfectly fine with Workman in high leverage. But I can also understand why he gets some complaints..because if there is damage on him, it feels self-inflicted with the 6BB/9 innings. So it doesn't look pretty when a run scores from two free passes and a base hit. Besides, I feel like Workman gets less complaints than Kimbrel when he was struggling with control and walking 5 batters per 9 in 2016 I really think Workman’s BB issue is because he likes to work above the zone with the 4FB. That’s probably in part a product of his poor velo to start the year. It made sense. But he sat 94 and touched 95.1 with it this game. I think he’s actually hitting his spots most of the time, just intentionally as balls. I think if he learns to trust the new velo, he’ll work down a smidge and still get the whiffs/weak contact, but fewer walks. It’s not like Kimbrel just whipping it in and hoping it’s over. I really believe that Workman has much better command/control than the walk rate suggests. Just look at the scatter plots for his pitches. They’re consistent: baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/brandon-workman-519443?stats=career-r-pitching-mlbHe’s genuinely really, really good this year. Lots of red (like, top 10% or even 5%) on xSLG, xBA, hard hit rate, barrel rate (lol...1.9%, stupid good). The only thing “bad” is FB velo (92, but 94-95 lately) and FB spin, which is why I think he works out of the zone instead of top...less rise and thus easier to square if it’s a strike. I think he’s perfectly executing the approach that works for him.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 18, 2019 22:17:38 GMT -5
Btw, Vazquez is going to win this with a 370’ oppo shot.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 22:19:37 GMT -5
Why wouldn't there be less complaints about Workman when he costs peanuts and they didn't trade 4 good prospects to get him? $13M closers have higher expectations. What expectation did Kimbrel not exceed in Boston though? He won a title here, had 2 really good seasons, and one really great season here. I don't get it. We didn't get what we paid for. We got a crappy 2016 and mediocre 2018. We paid for the 2017 version. And anyway, we were talking about 2016, when everyone was disappointed in him.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 22:21:51 GMT -5
What expectation did Kimbrel not exceed in Boston though? He won a title here, had 2 really good seasons, and one really great season here. I don't get it. We didn't get what we paid for. We got a crappy 2016 and mediocre 2018. We paid for the 2017 version. And anyway, we were talking about 2016, when everyone was disappointed in him. Fair point about 2016 as he was worth 0.8 bWAR. The other 2 were worth the price of admission at 3.6 and 2.3 bWAR. He was really good outside of one year.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 22:22:38 GMT -5
Well, no matter what happens here we will get treated to a Josh Taylor relief appearance (no Velazquez available?)
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