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7/22-7/24 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 23, 2019 22:19:57 GMT -5
Better still. A win tomorrow would make the Sox 57-56, a game ahead of the Rays at 57-48. I don't know what the hell I saw. They're already ahead by a percentage point. Play overturned. Oakland instead going into the bottom of the frame with a 1 run lead instead of 2.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 23, 2019 22:27:44 GMT -5
Better still. A win tomorrow would make the Sox 57-56, a game ahead of the Rays at 57-48. I don't know what the hell I saw. They're already ahead by a percentage point. Oakland wins.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 23, 2019 22:29:05 GMT -5
The fact that he's putting in Walden instead of Darwinzon there tells us all we need to know and where he stands with Darwinzon right now, whether you agree or disagree Jim. I would love to see it too, but I can understand if he's gunshy with the rookie who has 6-10 appearances (less than half coming in the AFL) in a bullpen so far in his total career as a pitcher. Walden had started to pitch better and this game gave him reason to stop pushing him back to high leverage. Next time it's Darwinzon (but with clean innings). Josh Taylor deserves more leverage as well. Josh Taylor had one high leverage situation recently. July 17th. He faced two batters and gave up a homerun and got one out. Cora HAD to immediately go to Workman for a 5 out save. This is the arm you're saying the Sox need to trust more. He's good and he has a place in this bullpen, but I don't see why you need to trust him in spots like that. He's still getting his feet wet in the major leagues right now.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 23, 2019 22:33:52 GMT -5
Interesting choice to stick with Workman. All of a sudden, the pen doesn't seem so bad. They're extending Workman in a game they need to have. It's understandable. Not quite. The result was predictable. Workman pitched multiple innings just a few days ago. The team was fortunate to pull this one out, they were one unlucky bounce from losing it. I'll say this again: burning out the relief corps isn't the way to go. There were other options, and while they might not be perfect they did have that three run lead to work with.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2019 22:48:06 GMT -5
Walden had started to pitch better and this game gave him reason to stop pushing him back to high leverage. Next time it's Darwinzon (but with clean innings). Josh Taylor deserves more leverage as well. Josh Taylor had one high leverage situation recently. July 17th. He faced two batters and gave up a homerun and got one out. Cora HAD to immediately go to Workman for a 5 out save. This is the arm you're saying the Sox need to trust more. He's good and he has a place in this bullpen, but I don't see why you need to trust him in spots like that. He's still getting his feet wet in the major leagues right now. Right, you don't put them in 10.0 LI situations in tie games with the bases loaded with Barry Bonds up, but you start putting them in for 3 run leads in the 9th with the bottom of the order up. This isn't that outrageous. It's exactly what he's done with Brasier, Workman and Walden. They were nobodies, they pitched great, they got more leverage and then they were trusted more. Time to do it with Taylor and Darwinzon.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 23, 2019 22:54:26 GMT -5
Josh Taylor had one high leverage situation recently. July 17th. He faced two batters and gave up a homerun and got one out. Cora HAD to immediately go to Workman for a 5 out save. This is the arm you're saying the Sox need to trust more. He's good and he has a place in this bullpen, but I don't see why you need to trust him in spots like that. He's still getting his feet wet in the major leagues right now. Right, you don't put them in 10.0 LI situations in tie games with the bases loaded with Barry Bonds up, but you start putting them in for 3 run leads in the 9th with the bottom of the order up. This isn't that outrageous. It's exactly what he's done with Brasier, Workman and Walden. They were nobodies, they pitched great, they got more leverage and then they were trusted more. Time to do it with Taylor and Darwinzon. Bring on Darwinzon for high leverage!
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Post by itsdunkindonutstime on Jul 23, 2019 23:31:47 GMT -5
what a crazy night for baseball. not just tonight sox game but the yanks vs twins currently its 12-11 , unbelievable! Gregorius who went 4 for 4 with 7 RBI. EDIT: Chapman is having his meltdown moment, loving what I am seeing so far. EDIT#2: Chapman is operating at 94-96 not 99-101 like the usual, huge difference. EDIT#3: Ugh, Twins had bases all loaded up with 0 outs and just tying run via sac fly is all they could muster.
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Post by kevfc89 on Jul 23, 2019 23:46:58 GMT -5
what a crazy night for baseball. not just tonight sox game but the yanks vs twins currently its 12-11 , unbelievable! Gregorius who went 4 for 4 with 7 RBI. EDIT: Chapman is having his meltdown moment, loving what I am seeing so far. EDIT#2: Chapman is operating at 94-96 not 99-101 like the usual, huge difference. EDIT#3: Ugh, Twins had bases all loaded up with 0 outs and just tying run via sac fly is all they could muster. im watching too and its only reinforcing some of the stupidity of baseball in 2019. there have been some legit homers, but the yankees comeback was mostly lofting the ball to the outfield and watching the juiced ball bounce off the walls. oh and btw, pretty much every fanbase is screaming about their bullpen
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 23, 2019 23:50:50 GMT -5
The Yankees comeback just makes me dread the 4 game series even more. Luckily for the Red Sox that Tampa just decided to not be good at baseball anymore.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2019 0:04:12 GMT -5
Josh Taylor had one high leverage situation recently. July 17th. He faced two batters and gave up a homerun and got one out. Cora HAD to immediately go to Workman for a 5 out save. This is the arm you're saying the Sox need to trust more. He's good and he has a place in this bullpen, but I don't see why you need to trust him in spots like that. He's still getting his feet wet in the major leagues right now. Right, you don't put them in 10.0 LI situations in tie games with the bases loaded with Barry Bonds up, but you start putting them in for 3 run leads in the 9th with the bottom of the order up. This isn't that outrageous. It's exactly what he's done with Brasier, Workman and Walden. They were nobodies, they pitched great, they got more leverage and then they were trusted more. Time to do it with Taylor and Darwinzon. I don't blame Alex Cora one bit for not putting rookies into big spots. I have no problem with Cora leaving out a guy like Taylor out of high leverage situations. Low to medium leverage in the 5-7 innings is a perfect role for a guy like Taylor right now as a rookie. Brasier is going to be in Pawtucket until September because his luck wore off from last year. Cora is generally going to trust the guys who have more experience. This is why he kept going back to Nunez and kept going there until he was gone. Taylor and Darwinzon are going to have to absolutely shove in the roles they are given until they get their chance in bigger opportunities, and they can't mess up like with what Taylor did on July 17th. The only way I can see Darwinzon and Taylor getting into big situations like last night is if there are no other options available.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2019 0:07:49 GMT -5
They're extending Workman in a game they need to have. It's understandable. Not quite. The result was predictable. Workman pitched multiple innings just a few days ago. The team was fortunate to pull this one out, they were one unlucky bounce from losing it. I'll say this again: burning out the relief corps isn't the way to go. There were other options, and while they might not be perfect they did have that three run lead to work with. There are other options. Cora trusts none of them besides Workman. You ride out your best players in the biggest games you need to have. Yesterday was a crucial game with the lead late. Had to win it. It took over 40 pitches for Workman to get pulled. The only solution to this problem is to get someone that's proven to be better than Workman in this bullpen this year. I hear Ken Giles is available and he loves pitching here in Boston. Wink, wink.
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Post by kevfc89 on Jul 24, 2019 0:34:35 GMT -5
Not quite. The result was predictable. Workman pitched multiple innings just a few days ago. The team was fortunate to pull this one out, they were one unlucky bounce from losing it. I'll say this again: burning out the relief corps isn't the way to go. There were other options, and while they might not be perfect they did have that three run lead to work with. There are other options. Cora trusts none of them besides Workman. You ride out your best players in the biggest games you need to have. Yesterday was a crucial game with the lead late. Had to win it. It took over 40 pitches for Workman to get pulled. The only solution to this problem is to get someone that's proven to be better than Workman in this bullpen this year. I hear Ken Giles is available and he loves pitching here in Boston. Wink, wink. he can't distrust them completely if after the game he pointed to those guys for tomorrow; they will get opportunities to show they belong in the tougher spots. On Workman: "Tomorrow, he’s going to be down but we’ve got Nate and we’ve got Waldy, Barnesy for one (out), we’ve got Josh Taylor, we’ve got Darwinzon (Hernandez) so that’s the difference compared to early in the season."
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2019 4:42:11 GMT -5
There are other options. Cora trusts none of them besides Workman. You ride out your best players in the biggest games you need to have. Yesterday was a crucial game with the lead late. Had to win it. It took over 40 pitches for Workman to get pulled. The only solution to this problem is to get someone that's proven to be better than Workman in this bullpen this year. I hear Ken Giles is available and he loves pitching here in Boston. Wink, wink. he can't distrust them completely if after the game he pointed to those guys for tomorrow; they will get opportunities to show they belong in the tougher spots. On Workman: "Tomorrow, he’s going to be down but we’ve got Nate and we’ve got Waldy, Barnesy for one (out), we’ve got Josh Taylor, we’ve got Darwinzon (Hernandez) so that’s the difference compared to early in the season." They will get opportunity eventually. They both are in this bullpen and look like they're here to stay. It doesn't take much to displace Heath Hembree and Colton Brewer ahead in the depth chart. My overall point is that this is going to be a process. Cora is trying to put his players in the best possible position to succeed. Throwing Taylor and Darwinzon in the most important close game of the year so far when they both just got up here? That sounds like throwing your rookie players to the fire. I see a lot of people wanting Darwinzon to get put in that fire like Papelbon was in 2005. What I say to that is that there's only one Papelbon and he's one of the 10 best relievers in MLB history. He was obviously a different personality from the get go. He was a beast that wanted the ball and wasn't afraid of pumping his best fastball in at any part of the zone and could get anyone out on his fastball. He was a fearless competitor, basically. All business on the mound. Darwizon has this same type of stuff, but it's hard to imagine his personality emulating Papelbon. It's hard to imagine most people with that kind of personality. Papelbon was certainly different from the rest. Either way, I expect Cora to favor the veterans first. Heck, even in that quote you just showed me it says that. If you want to read into that quote, the first name that pops up in Cora's head is Eovaldi. The last name to be called out is Darwinzon in his head. You can read into that quote or you don't have to, but it's interesting reading into that and seeing how I think Cora is thinking. Darwinzon could be used tomorrow. Price could be pulled early because of pitch count or a million other reasons. Darwinzon can come in early and have the 5th or 6th inning. When your best reliever is unavailable and your second best reliever in Barnes is available for a out or two, then that limits what you can do. I fully expect Cora to ride out Price to the max tomorrow, just like he did with Sale last night. I then expect he'll go to Barnes for a out and then ride out Eovaldi. Cora might even just let Eovaldi pitch the last 2 innings either way. If Price gives the Sox 7 innings today, I think Cora will be doing jumping jacks in the dugout. If he doesn't, then that's where you can see the likes of Darwinzon and Taylor because you stretched your best reliever in Workman out for the important win last night. As for Darwinzon, he's going to have to earn Cora's trust the next month. He should get there. By September or late August, I think he'll be there in the 8th or 9th innings possibly, if things break right for him. He's still really young (22), no need to rush this.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 24, 2019 7:46:25 GMT -5
One thing that's obvious when you step back but also can be hard to remember in the heat of the moment is that every single pitcher who ever lived is better in three-out stints than six-out stints, and that shouldn't be seen as an indictment. The goal isn't to get individual pitcher's the lowest possible ERA, the goal is to use the whole staff to win games. If that means extending an individual sometimes to the detriment of his stat line but the betterment of the team so as not to overwork the staff, then that's good managing. The John Farrell method of using Junichi Tazawa for exactly one inning every day, whether it was a one-run game or a seven run game because the guy before him had already pitched an inning probably helped optimize their individual ERAs in April and May and then also led to Tazawa being toast by July 1 every year.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2019 7:50:34 GMT -5
Right, you don't put them in 10.0 LI situations in tie games with the bases loaded with Barry Bonds up, but you start putting them in for 3 run leads in the 9th with the bottom of the order up. This isn't that outrageous. It's exactly what he's done with Brasier, Workman and Walden. They were nobodies, they pitched great, they got more leverage and then they were trusted more. Time to do it with Taylor and Darwinzon. I don't blame Alex Cora one bit for not putting rookies into big spots. I have no problem with Cora leaving out a guy like Taylor out of high leverage situations. Low to medium leverage in the 5-7 innings is a perfect role for a guy like Taylor right now as a rookie. Brasier is going to be in Pawtucket until September because his luck wore off from last year. Cora is generally going to trust the guys who have more experience. This is why he kept going back to Nunez and kept going there until he was gone. Taylor and Darwinzon are going to have to absolutely shove in the roles they are given until they get their chance in bigger opportunities, and they can't mess up like with what Taylor did on July 17th. The only way I can see Darwinzon and Taylor getting into big situations like last night is if there are no other options available. A 3 run lead in the 9th with the bases empty is low leverage.
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Post by costpet on Jul 24, 2019 8:30:57 GMT -5
Within a week DD will bring in a new reliever or two. Even he can see the need now. I hope the cost isn't outrageous.
If they can split with the Yanks, they'll be just fine.
Just remember, in a short series (playoffs), anything can happen.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 24, 2019 10:53:52 GMT -5
Mitch Moreland is 0-17 since May. Combined milb, mlb. They hurried him back, why?
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Post by manfred on Jul 24, 2019 11:11:11 GMT -5
Oh, good. Angel Hernandez.
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Post by wildsox on Jul 24, 2019 11:34:43 GMT -5
If Moreland doesn’t get sorted out by the deadline do we consider making a move?
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Post by coachmac on Jul 24, 2019 11:42:02 GMT -5
If Moreland doesn’t get sorted out by the deadline do we consider making a move? Is there a gold glove level left-handed hitting 1st baseman that we could get?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2019 11:43:58 GMT -5
If Moreland doesn’t get sorted out by the deadline do we consider making a move? No. Why wouldn't he eventually start hitting again? That was his 3rd plate appearance since the beginning of June.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 24, 2019 11:53:32 GMT -5
Wow, what great hitting by Devers. That's exactly what he was trying to do.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 24, 2019 11:56:20 GMT -5
If Moreland doesn’t get sorted out by the deadline do we consider making a move? No. Why wouldn't he eventually start hitting again? That was his 3rd plate appearance since the beginning of June. Yeah, but he's just one away from 0-4. Just checked baseball history and nobody's ever come back from that.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on Jul 24, 2019 12:11:11 GMT -5
Wow, now he grounded out. DFA Moreland!!!
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2019 12:18:28 GMT -5
93 mph EV home run. *sigh*
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