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Breaking News - Dombrowski out
redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 0:01:26 GMT -5
What is with you and your condescending attitude? You don't know why he was fired any more than I do but you're using it as an excuse to bash Pedro and 67, which is quite tasteless. I'm so tired of it. Sorry. I have way more reasonable expectations because I'd never watch baseball ever if I didn't because it would be intolerable. I'll never bitch about the Red Sox not trying hard for the sole purpose because they aren't winning. Both of them have in the past week accused the Red Sox of not trying hard enough. Either disagree or ignore it. They're passionate Red Sox fans who care alot about the team. Yes, this site is all about intelligent conversation, but there are going to be emotions involved. In baseball, particularly in that thread it will happen. I remember when Joe Morgan used to say that his team didn't play any more dead-ass than usual. Does that mean that he didn't really think his team hustled and was just mailing it in? Doubtful, but he was aggravated and that's how it came out. This year has been frustrating as hell. 2019 should have been a season where they win around 95, make the playoffs, and take their chances. Instead nothing has gone right this year and frankly it hasn't been enjoyable and there are a lot of hard questions surrounding this team going forward. Like you, I really don't blame Dombrowski. Some of the thing could have been forecast. I mean is it shocking that Sale and Eovaldi were health risks or even that Pearce was a veteran with an injury history (Pedro did call that one)? No, not really, but taken the gambles he did was reasonable or at least I thought so and if I had his job, I might be on the unemployment line. If that's really the reason he was fired. I suspect it was a smaller reason and that there's a lot more which will come out because secrets like that don't survive in Boston. I mean if CHB sensed what was going on, it's out there....so we will find out what lead to this.
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Post by marrcus on Sept 9, 2019 0:01:31 GMT -5
They are trying to break his balls. Yeah I think they feel something extra happened they don't like. I felt that way before the season. It would never happen to me as a GM because it is a core belief of mine. Even if it was minor change I would do something every off-season.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 0:06:08 GMT -5
I am glad it's Ed Romero Jr in charge, but I have to ask. We knew he was a rising star in the organization. Is there anybody else left? It's like the organization had a brain drain over the past five years or so as others have left the organization. Becerra for sure. O'Halloran's been around to long to have "rising star" cache but my guess is he'd be plenty capable. Sorry for my ignorance here - I know O'Halloran is Brian O'Halloran and I know he's been around a long time. Who is Becerra? I mean, Hazen left. Cherington is long gone - I don't think Henry wanted him to leave when Dombrowski was hired. We knew Romero was a rising star. It's late and I'm probably missing some more guys. Zach Scott has risen in prominence. Bill James shooting himself in the foot with some ill advised words didn't help him rise to the top of the organization. I think Tom Tippett left awhile back.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 9, 2019 0:07:17 GMT -5
i thought this thread was well stated by Dan Who set the fucking budget?!!!!! AND KNEW GOD DAMNED WELL WHAT THE BUDGET WAS GOING TO BE AFTER THEY WON IN 2018?! Rough weekend, jimed? You seem to be in a bit of a mood... Anyway, I don't blame DD much for this season. But if you are going to blame him, Szymborski's exactly right - it's the lack of imagination and resting on his laurels. He just basically brought the whole 2018 team back, despite the fact that - 119 wins notwithstanding - it had some real weaknesses. He certainly could have done better than go into 2019 with Pearce, Nunez, and Eovaldi, for starters.
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 9, 2019 0:09:05 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 9, 2019 0:10:02 GMT -5
Becerra for sure. O'Halloran's been around to long to have "rising star" cache but my guess is he'd be plenty capable. Sorry for my ignorance here - I know O'Halloran is Brian O'Halloran and I know he's been around a long time. Who is Becerra? I mean, Hazen left. Cherington is long gone - I don't think Henry wanted him to leave when Dombrowski was hired. We knew Romero was a rising star. It's late and I'm probably missing some more guys. Zach Scott has risen in prominence. Bill James shooting himself in the foot with some ill advised words didn't help him rise to the top of the organization. I think Tom Tippett left awhile back. Chris Becerra, the current Special Assistant in the International Scouting Department. Hired from the Mets organization last offseason.
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Post by boydhurstlovechild on Sept 9, 2019 0:10:32 GMT -5
Is this totally out of left field, or have their been rumblings in local media? I'm can't say I'm particularly dissapointed or excited. I am surprised. Just googling it now is kinda funny, like the Post, but even national things are leading with "Fired after latest loss to Yankees."
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 0:10:38 GMT -5
Either disagree or ignore it. They're passionate Red Sox fans who care alot about the team. Yes, this site is all about intelligent conversation, but there are going to be emotions involved. In baseball, particularly in that thread it will happen. I remember when Joe Morgan used to say that his team didn't play any more dead-ass than usual. Does that mean that he didn't really think his team hustled and was just mailing it in? Doubtful, but he was aggravated and that's how it came out. This year has been frustrating as hell. 2019 should have been a season where they win around 95, make the playoffs, and take their chances. Instead nothing has gone right this year and frankly it hasn't been enjoyable and there are a lot of hard questions surrounding this team going forward. Like you, I really don't blame Dombrowski. Some of the thing could have been forecast. I mean is it shocking that Sale and Eovaldi were health risks or even that Pearce was a veteran with an injury history (Pedro did call that one)? No, not really, but taken the gambles he did was reasonable or at least I thought so and if I had his job, I might be on the unemployment line. If that's really the reason he was fired. I suspect it was a smaller reason and that there's a lot more which will come out because secrets like that don't survive in Boston. I mean if CHB sensed what was going on, it's out there....so we will find out what lead to this. Well they're calling the team bums or incompetent for not hitting well, so sorry, I'm not ignoring it. They're god damn morons for calling people stupid for this shit. I can forgive pedro because he's a millennial who doesn't know any better, but soxfan is our age and he still is dumb about it despite supposedly going through all the heartbreaks we all did again and again 100 times. My personal style is to criticize the team. I don't like bums but I might say the team lacks balls or guts or they suck, etc, but I don't like criticizing individual players in that manner which is why I disagreed with Pedro regarding Porcello who has pitched like crap but is either 1) paying the price from being overpitched last October and/or 2) in decline as his stuff is declining. Frankly the only individual I criticized has been David Price for the classless way he has handled the Eck situation and I have nothing but distaste (and yes, admittedly excitement) for the newest member of the Patriots who has been a drama queen.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:11:13 GMT -5
Who set the fucking budget?!!!!! AND KNEW GOD DAMNED WELL WHAT THE BUDGET WAS GOING TO BE AFTER THEY WON IN 2018?! Rough weekend, jimed? You seem to be in a bit of a mood... Anyway, I don't blame DD much for this season. But if you are going to blame him, Szymborski's exactly right - it's the lack of imagination and resting on his laurels. He just basically brought the whole 2018 team back, despite the fact that - 119 wins notwithstanding - it had some real weaknesses. He certainly could have done better than go into 2019 with Pearce, Nunez, and Eovaldi, for starters. OK, Nunez was not possible to change because he had a player option unless they wanted to throw away $5 million with an expectation that he might exceed it. Pearce was the WS MVP. No one complained about Eovaldi. No one. In fact, everyone knew he'd be limited this season because they knew he threw his arm off to win the 2018 WS! You do not have the luxury to throw guys away when you're so close to the limit.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:15:49 GMT -5
Some people are so god damn smart, they knew how to replace Sale, Eovaldi, Price and Porcello for no money and no prospects this season.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 9, 2019 0:18:50 GMT -5
Rough weekend, jimed? You seem to be in a bit of a mood... Anyway, I don't blame DD much for this season. But if you are going to blame him, Szymborski's exactly right - it's the lack of imagination and resting on his laurels. He just basically brought the whole 2018 team back, despite the fact that - 119 wins notwithstanding - it had some real weaknesses. He certainly could have done better than go into 2019 with Pearce, Nunez, and Eovaldi, for starters. OK, Nunez was not possible to change because he had a player option unless they wanted to throw away $5 million with an expectation that he might exceed it. Pearce was the WS MVP. No one complained about Eovaldi. No one. In fact, everyone knew he'd be limited this season because they knew he threw his arm off to win the 2018 WS! You do not have the luxury to throw guys away when you're so close to the limit. If they had released Nunez and his $5 million salary they would have saved about $12 million in value. "Pearce was the WS MVP" is... not actually a reason to re-sign him. And I'm pretty sure some people complained about the Eovaldi signing. Anyway, like I said, my personal view is that he doesn't deserve much blame. (Credit him for the Bogaerts signing, for the approach to the bullpen and trade deadline this year, for holding on to the right prospects...) But the margins of the roster have never been his strong suit, and that's something that has really bitten the team. I mean, compare what Cashman has done in NY, in terms of filling out the roster beyond the big name stars.
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Post by marrcus on Sept 9, 2019 0:18:55 GMT -5
Not at all. Shaugnessey had it 4 weeks ago and when questioned about it he was careful to say it was legit though he indicated it wasn't per ownership (which it was,obviously). He said it was informed opinion.
You don't fire your GM at the end of a nyy series on a Sunday evening unless you want a lot of people to talk about it. Which they won't be doing anyway because of the Pats.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:20:42 GMT -5
Not at all. Shaunessey had it 6-8 weeks ago and when questioned about it he was careful to say it was legit though he indicated it wasn't per ownership (which it was,obviously). He said it was informed opinion. You don't fire your GM at the end of a nyy series on a Sunday evening unless you want a lot of people to talk about it. Which they won't be doing anyway because of the Pats. Shaunessey was probably calling for Cora's head last season. He's another moron. He'd probably write 18,000 words about why Belichick should be fired as well.
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 9, 2019 0:21:56 GMT -5
anyway, whatever you think of what DD could or could not have done differently, this IS potentially a very different kind of offseason for the team depending on the direction they want to go in. If DD wasn't who they wanted to make those decisions for the next few years, it could make sense to say 'thank you, you did what was asked and your job is done.'
It was just strange how they announce it at around midnight after an early September game, which the optics look a little dumb.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:25:22 GMT -5
anyway, whatever you think of what DD could or could not have done differently, this IS potentially a very different kind of offseason for the team depending on the direction they want to go in. If DD wasn't who they wanted to make those decisions for the next few years, it could make sense to say 'thank you, you did what was asked and your job is done.' It was just strange how they announce it at around midnight after an early September game, which the optics look a little dumb. Left out is why the Red Sox think that making the team look like morons is the best scenario.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 9, 2019 0:26:24 GMT -5
Dombrowski did the job right. He won it all and even prior to that he won games often. This feels a bit harsh, but the team is probably looking at a minor rebuild and maybe DD just wasn't the guy for that task. I feel like he was brought in to do one thing and he did that thing which in turn made him expendable. Tough, but it is what it is.
This is definitely a wait and see.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:28:44 GMT -5
DDo is a championship winner, like Cherington.
I cannot be happier with either of them.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 0:29:54 GMT -5
Copied from the gameday thread.
I do not favor this move at all. Typical of John Henry, he's scapegoating a bad season. This is what he does. Dombrowski has done everything asked of him and won a ring in his 3rd season.
If I'm a GM worth his salt, I'd tell the Red Sox to go pound sand. I wouldn't want the job I know I'd be fired from if I had 1 bad season. Screw them.
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Post by marrcus on Sept 9, 2019 0:31:12 GMT -5
He wasn't going to get an extension. Ownership leaked to Shaughnessy --in Aug-- to tell DD he was out (a brushback pitch). Why they dumped him this way--kicking him out of Fenway-- has to include an additional piece to the story. Could have been done a day after the season end.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:32:28 GMT -5
Bottom line, I really wanted Romero to run the Red Sox. But this is the dumbest possible way to do it. I hate the way it was done.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 0:32:55 GMT -5
anyway, whatever you think of what DD could or could not have done differently, this IS potentially a very different kind of offseason for the team depending on the direction they want to go in. If DD wasn't who they wanted to make those decisions for the next few years, it could make sense to say 'thank you, you did what was asked and your job is done.' It was just strange how they announce it at around midnight after an early September game, which the optics look a little dumb. Left out is why the Red Sox think that making the team look like morons is the best scenario. Feel how you feel, but I think you should calm down a bit and wait for what's not said to start showing up as unattributed quotes and then it will come clearer and it will probably be about more than giving Sale the extension, etc. That's what I'm waiting on. I don't expect John Henry to be any more open about why Dombrowski was fired than Dombrowski was on why John Farrell was fired although it wasn't hard to trace the dots after awhile, and I suspect that will be the case here. Henry has 4 championships so I suspect he knows a thing or two about the direction of the club and what his expectations are, etc. I'm willing to wait it out before being outraged.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:34:36 GMT -5
Left out is why the Red Sox think that making the team look like morons is the best scenario. Feel how you feel, but I think you should calm down a bit and wait for what's not said to start showing up as unattributed quotes and then it will come clearer and it will probably be about more than giving Sale the extension, etc. That's what I'm waiting on. I don't expect John Henry to be any more open about why Dombrowski was fired than Dombrowski was on why John Farrell was fired although it wasn't hard to trace the dots after awhile, and I suspect that will be the case here. Henry has 4 championships so I suspect he knows a thing or two about the direction of the club and what his expectations are, etc. I'm willing to wait it out before being outraged. Farrell made 100% complete sense. This makes zero sense. Farrell made 1000 stupid decisions. DDo made most of his decisions because he had $0 of budget on the cap.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 9, 2019 0:35:57 GMT -5
DDo is a championship winner, like Cherington. I cannot be happier with either of them. Perhaps the fact that they've had 3 different GMs over the last 15 years and each one of them has won a World Series (or two) suggests ownership has an especially good feel for who to bring in at the right time. I assume you "cannot be happier" with John Henry, right? Maybe something to think about between your many posts claiming that ownership look like idiots.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:37:32 GMT -5
DDo is a championship winner, like Cherington. I cannot be happier with either of them. Perhaps the fact that they've had 3 different GMs over the last 15 years and each one of them has won a World Series (or two) suggests ownership has an especially good feel for who to bring in at the right time. I assume you "cannot be happier" with John Henry, right? Maybe something to think about between your many posts claiming that ownership look like idiots. I'll be fine with Henry when I hear the reasonable explanation why he fired the guy who just won with almost zero flexibility to change next year's team. Especially when he actually hired the guy to go all out to win a championship which he won.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 0:39:28 GMT -5
Feel how you feel, but I think you should calm down a bit and wait for what's not said to start showing up as unattributed quotes and then it will come clearer and it will probably be about more than giving Sale the extension, etc. That's what I'm waiting on. I don't expect John Henry to be any more open about why Dombrowski was fired than Dombrowski was on why John Farrell was fired although it wasn't hard to trace the dots after awhile, and I suspect that will be the case here. Henry has 4 championships so I suspect he knows a thing or two about the direction of the club and what his expectations are, etc. I'm willing to wait it out before being outraged. Farrell made 100% complete sense. This makes zero sense. Farrell made 1000 stupid decisions. DDo made all of his decisions because he had $0 of budget on the cap. Are you really sure? I found it interesting that Shaughnessy said that Dombrowski was increasingly isolated. What does that mean? Why wasn't it denied? Was he not communicating with Romero and some others like Zach Scott, etc? These are questions that we don't know the answer to, but if he was only talking with LaRussa and Wren, what does that mean in regards to the others in the braintrust? Did he shut out the rest of the organization to talk with his cronies only? This is important because if he was then he was stunting the growth of others in the organization who could have had valuable input he was ignoring. Not saying that the's case here, but that the issue was brought up naturally leads to questions. And again, what if Henry and Werner had different visions of the future than Dombrowski has? They should all be on the same page or they're in trouble.
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