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2019-20 Boston Celtics Season
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2020 5:52:35 GMT -5
Jason Tatum 6 assists and it should have been way more if teammates didn’t miss bunnies. He was the best play maker on the team last night. That part of his development has gone unnoticed because of his scoring and defense but it’s the final piece to make him an unstoppable force.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Sept 2, 2020 8:10:31 GMT -5
Rob Williams, man. If he can ever figure it out mentally, he could be a top ten center. People forget he was projected as a lottery pick for a while before slipping late. Really hope he stays healthy because other teams haven't faced us with him playing consistently and he has set the tone early in both games so far.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2020 13:04:53 GMT -5
For me Tatum carrying the team last game was Superstar level. Gave you buckets when you needed them, yet it's how he did it. Getting to the FT line a ton, getting the other team in foul trouble. That really impressed me. He's such a good shooter that he doesn't always do that. Yet nothing drives a team crazy like a guy that just keeps getting to the line, getting points without making shots. His work in the paint was fun to watch, the game has slowed down for him. It's not just blow by guys at full speed anymore. Which allows him to be a better playmaker. Amazing that he's still so young.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2020 13:13:47 GMT -5
For me Tatum carrying the team last game was Superstar level. Gave you buckets when you needed them, yet it's how he did it. Getting to the FT line a ton, getting the other team in foul trouble. That really impressed me. He's such a good shooter that he doesn't always do that. Yet nothing drives a team crazy like a guy that just keeps getting to the line, getting points without making shots. His work in the paint was fun to watch, the game has slowed down for him. It's not just blow by guys at full speed anymore. Which allows him to be a better playmaker. Amazing that he's still so young. I agree but I don’t want to put that above the fact he was the main play maker during the comeback. He had 3 assists on Smarts buckets and another one in the 4th (should have been more)... Toronto threw its D at him and he used it to the teams advantage, then still stepped in and helped put the game away with a couple key buckets (FTs and that huge 3) down the stretch. He was so open on that 3 because of all his passing before that. He just had to look at Kemba and the defender bit so hard he was left wide open. Getting to the line will be a huge part of his rise as a scorer (8 FTs a game adds to the scoring average), but his play making for others is what’s going to make him that MVP level guy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2020 13:21:58 GMT -5
I agree, but they are one in the same for me. 2018 Tatum couldn't be a playmaker, yet could get to the line a ton. 2020 Tatum can do both and it's him slowing down his drives, using skill over just speed and athletic ability in the paint. He lived in the paint more than any game I can remember. Next step is setting up guys around the basket and not for three pointers. He's still not great at that.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2020 13:36:25 GMT -5
I agree, but they are one in the same for me. 2018 Tatum couldn't be a playmaker, yet could get to the line a ton. 2020 Tatum can do both and it's him slowing down his drives, using skill over just speed and athletic ability in the paint. He lived in the paint more than any game I can remember. Next step is setting up guys around the basket and not for three pointers. He's still not great at that. There was a good breakdown in the Athletic on how Stevens challenged Tatum to get into his move right away last night. He likes to take his time but you can’t do that against Toronto. By him doing that he was able to get by his guy and then the double couldn’t get there in time and that caused a lot of fouls. His fouls were all legit. It’s nice that he’s hungry to learn and smart.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2020 14:01:24 GMT -5
So what do we make of Smart and his shooting this year? The last six games are basically what he did all year. Against Sixers 2-15 in four games, 11-20 against Raptors. In my 30 years of watching Basketball I don't remember ever seeing a guy with such big swings. Game one I feel he got a ton of good looks, game two he took some very hard shots. The kind of shots that if he missed I call him out on them. Yet he kept making them. Has he becomes the Jackie Bradley of shooting? Is it him just being a gamer in certain games?
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Post by blucore on Sept 2, 2020 14:33:22 GMT -5
So what do we make of Smart and his shooting this year? The last six games are basically what he did all year. Against Sixers 2-15 in four games, 11-20 against Raptors. In my 30 years of watching Basketball I don't remember ever seeing a guy with such big swings. Game one I feel he got a ton of good looks, game two he took some very hard shots. The kind of shots that if he missed I call him out on them. Yet he kept making them. Has he becomes the Jackie Bradley of shooting? Is it him just being a gamer in certain games? I think he's always been a gamer when it comes to the big 3s. Just percentages over the last 2 seasons have been better than the first 4. He's always been able to get hot for stretches (wasn't he a 40% shooter in the first half of his rookie year?), but maybe the difference is that now if he gets hot for 5 in a row and misses 1, he stops shooting. I think that in his first few seasons he would have turned a 5-5 4th quarter into a 5-10 4th quarter, whereas in this game he stopped after 5-6 if that makes sense.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2020 17:23:19 GMT -5
He’s a tough nut to crack so I try not to but what I will add is Danny Ainge likes to talk about how Marcus is always banged up and when he’s banged up his shooting percentages fall vs when he’s healthy they are pretty good. I don’t know how true that is but that’s the type of stuff they’d know internally that we wouldn’t. For what it’s worth.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Sept 2, 2020 17:56:10 GMT -5
His shooting is just icing on the cake. Defense and credible playmaking are enough for me. When his shot is off he almost always makes up for a miss with a ferocious play on D. But my goodness did he shoot them back into the game yesterday.
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Post by philarhody on Sept 2, 2020 20:04:32 GMT -5
Watching the Bucks-Heat game. The Bucks 3 point defense is so bad.
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Post by blucore on Sept 2, 2020 20:57:17 GMT -5
I hope the Heat can pull the series out. Wacky ending to a good game for them. I feel a lot better about a Celtics-Heat series than Celtics-Bucks. Probably premature, but Giannis could be the Harden of the East. He has all the individual accolades and stats in the world, but his game is too limited to win in the postseason as the #1 guy. Not having home court is killing them though.
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Post by philarhody on Sept 2, 2020 21:19:28 GMT -5
I hope the Heat can pull the series out. Wacky ending to a good game for them. I feel a lot better about a Celtics-Heat series than Celtics-Bucks. Probably premature, but Giannis could be the Harden of the East. He has all the individual accolades and stats in the world, but his game is too limited to win in the postseason as the #1 guy. Not having home court is killing them though. Why do you feel better about Celtics-Heat? I think they’re a tougher matchup against the Celtics than the Bucks
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Post by blucore on Sept 2, 2020 22:16:07 GMT -5
I hope the Heat can pull the series out. Wacky ending to a good game for them. I feel a lot better about a Celtics-Heat series than Celtics-Bucks. Probably premature, but Giannis could be the Harden of the East. He has all the individual accolades and stats in the world, but his game is too limited to win in the postseason as the #1 guy. Not having home court is killing them though. Why do you feel better about Celtics-Heat? I think they’re a tougher matchup against the Celtics than the Bucks In the end, I think the Bucks are more talented than the Heat. They also have bigger bigs who are harder to deal with than Miami's frontcourt machup-wise. The Heat have good players, but the C's have a bigger star power advantage against Miami than Milwaukee. I think that the C's perimeter defense does more to stifle Herro and Crowder than Middleton.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 2, 2020 23:05:01 GMT -5
Also, I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I think both calls were good. Dragic was in Middleton's landing spot and Butler was rammed by Giannis.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 3, 2020 6:41:30 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about who’s a worse matchup. They are both really good teams. Giannis is obviously the X factor as far as pure dominance goes so I’d have to say he’s the scariest for the Celtics especially since rebounding can be an issue for this team. That size along with Lopez and Middleton likes to kill us when we pack the paint. I’m also going to be upset if the Celtics aren’t in the finals and neither are the Bucks. I really don’t want Giannis to leave the Bucks. I want him to be there long term - I would hate to see him in Miami or LA. If he left for Dallas, that’d be ok, but I’m sick of the same teams getting the FAs and Id like a smaller market to be relevant for a long time.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 3, 2020 6:43:10 GMT -5
I’m interested to see Grant Williams next year and how he’s improved his corner 3.... the guy is such a hard worker and with the NBA going smaller, I think he will carve out a great role in this league once his 3 point shot develops. I have little doubt it will... he works too hard and it’s not completely broken. Just don’t know how long it will take.
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Post by blucore on Sept 3, 2020 10:18:22 GMT -5
Also, I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I think both calls were good. Dragic was in Middleton's landing spot and Butler was rammed by Giannis. Yeah I agree. I can see why both sides were upset at their call, but the defenders need to be smarter. Why is Dragic going vertical so close to Middleton that there's contact on the landing? And Giannis knows that the last close call went the Bucks way, so why is he trying to block a 24-foot turnaround in the corner that's already contested?
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Post by blucore on Sept 3, 2020 10:26:35 GMT -5
On Grant, it's hard not to see a PJ Tucker kind of small ball center. I think he's really worked on not reaching when he's in front on defense to avoid foul calls and he's impressed me guarding Siakam in this series. Just a solid pro glue guy who knows how to be a supporting piece.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 3, 2020 12:19:29 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about who’s a worse matchup. They are both really good teams. Giannis is obviously the X factor as far as pure dominance goes so I’d have to say he’s the scariest for the Celtics especially since rebounding can be an issue for this team. That size along with Lopez and Middleton likes to kill us when we pack the paint. I’m also going to be upset if the Celtics aren’t in the finals and neither are the Bucks. I really don’t want Giannis to leave the Bucks. I want him to be there long term - I would hate to see him in Miami or LA. If he left for Dallas, that’d be ok, but I’m sick of the same teams getting the FAs and Id like a smaller market to be relevant for a long time. The better matchup for us is easily the Heat, they are very similar to the Raptors. Our D stopping transition and guarding their three point shooters works out perfectly. We still don't have anyone to stop Giannis, Tatum is a few years away from adding enough muscle to truly guard him. Yet shame on the Bucks, they really hurt that team not resigning Brogdon. They are starting Mathews at SG and last game Lopez took the most three's. While it's not the Thunder shipping out Harden, it could lead to the same end result. The lost the lethal three point shooter and playmaker they truly needed over money. I also question the rotation that coach is using against the Heat not playing Donte who I love more. That just isn't the same team. Some teams get better when you crunch rotations and some get worse, the Bucks are clearly worse. Without more shooters you just fill the paint and play some zone and it limits space for Giannis. First time they've had that problem in the playoffs in two years. Letting Brogdon go was like letting Smart leave because you worried about Brown and Tatum's deals down the road. Yet resigning older guys instead. It's actually kinda funny watching this.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 3, 2020 12:30:35 GMT -5
On Grant, it's hard not to see a PJ Tucker kind of small ball center. I think he's really worked on not reaching when he's in front on defense to avoid foul calls and he's impressed me guarding Siakam in this series. Just a solid pro glue guy who knows how to be a supporting piece. He has Tucker type traits, plays crazy hard, smart player, does the little things. Yet he's not a Tucker level athlete and Tucker isn't anything special. Plus Tucker has a massive 7' wingspan to 6'9" for Williams. For me they need to work on his body, trying to increase his speed and athletic ability. If he can even jump up one grade it will be huge for him. He's just so limited in a league that is moving away from guys like him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 3, 2020 13:15:00 GMT -5
On Grant, it's hard not to see a PJ Tucker kind of small ball center. I think he's really worked on not reaching when he's in front on defense to avoid foul calls and he's impressed me guarding Siakam in this series. Just a solid pro glue guy who knows how to be a supporting piece. He has Tucker type traits, plays crazy hard, smart player, does the little things. Yet he's not a Tucker level athlete and Tucker isn't anything special. Plus Tucker has a massive 7' wingspan to 6'9" for Williams. For me they need to work on his body, trying to increase his speed and athletic ability. If he can even jump up one grade it will be huge for him. He's just so limited in a league that is moving away from guys like him. He’s smart enough with positioning and doing the little things like picks, sealing the paint and reading rebounds and he’s strong enough that he can overcome all his short comings if he becomes an above average 3 point shooter. All those short comings will hold him back. My expectations on him are as a great bench piece. Not as a starter.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 3, 2020 13:47:16 GMT -5
He has Tucker type traits, plays crazy hard, smart player, does the little things. Yet he's not a Tucker level athlete and Tucker isn't anything special. Plus Tucker has a massive 7' wingspan to 6'9" for Williams. For me they need to work on his body, trying to increase his speed and athletic ability. If he can even jump up one grade it will be huge for him. He's just so limited in a league that is moving away from guys like him. He’s smart enough with positioning and doing the little things like picks, sealing the paint and reading rebounds and he’s strong enough that he can overcome all his short comings if he becomes an above average 3 point shooter. All those short comings will hold him back. My expectations on him are as a great bench piece. Not as a starter. See that's where we differ, I see a great bench piece as a guy who can start. See Smart, Kanter, guys like that. When we had Rozier and Morris. If you're not on that level, your just a bench piece. For me he needs to get quicker and more athletic to be that great bench piece. At his size he needs to become a much better dribbler because you can't use him in the post on offense. I love the guys effort, he's 110% everytime he plays, yet he's just so limited. Added to a guy who is under sized at his position. Now if he can pull a Hayward and move up a grade athletic wise that could change things. We've seen guys do that. The combo of undersized while being a horrible athlete in today's NBA isn't good.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 3, 2020 13:54:48 GMT -5
He’s smart enough with positioning and doing the little things like picks, sealing the paint and reading rebounds and he’s strong enough that he can overcome all his short comings if he becomes an above average 3 point shooter. All those short comings will hold him back. My expectations on him are as a great bench piece. Not as a starter. See that's where we differ, I see a great bench piece as a guy who can start. See Smart, Kanter, guys like that. When we had Rozier and Morris. If you're not on that level, your just a bench piece. For me he needs to get quicker and more athletic to be that great bench piece. At his size he needs to become a much better dribbler because you can't use him in the post on offense. I love the guys effort, he's 110% everytime he plays, yet he's just so limited. Added to a guy who is under sized at his position. Now if he can pull a Hayward and move up a grade athletic wise that could change things. We've seen guys do that. The combo of undersized while being a horrible athlete in today's NBA isn't good. In the future I don’t see him much different than a Kanter as far as usability goes. Kanter, hasn’t touched the floor against Toronto. In most matchups around the league, if he develops that 3 point shot, I could see where a Williams, Williams, Tatum, Brown and a good PG let’s just say Kemba is still really good in 3 years is a great starting lineup. So when i say not a starter, I mean it in the same sense of a Kanter in that you don’t want them starting in an ideal world. You wouldn’t want to build your team with them starting.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Sept 3, 2020 13:57:19 GMT -5
Poirier out on Paternity leave. Likely subject to 4 day quarantine upon return to the bubble.
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