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A Mookie Betts Trade Return
cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 3, 2020 21:36:36 GMT -5
Well Bowden stinks but if Gonsolin isn’t in it then that doesn’t mean a Gray or a Ferguson isn’t too You have to figure it's Verdugo, a starting pitcher, probably a catcher given the lack of catching in the system (Ruiz), and a low A ball guy with a long way to go. So not Gonsolin could be Ross Stripling just as easily as it could mean Gray or Ferguson. If Price is gone and they're not replacing him in the rotation you have to wonder if they're kind of conceding this season. I mean, you replace Betts with Verdugo, you don't know how long it will take him to recover from his back issues, you have Sale, E-Rod, Eovaldi, Perez, and a bullpen day every 5th day lined up in the rotation and a questionable bullpen and some offensive holes in the bottom 3rd of the lineup. Not the end of the world if that's the case, as you'd figure 2021 would be the goal to start loading back up again for contention (that doesn't mean bringing back Mookie necessarily though). But if not Gonsolin, then perhaps it is Stripling so that they do have a major league caliber 5th starter. But then again, when is Jim Bowden ever right anyways? I don’t mind Stripling either, he’s not sexy but he’s been nothing but a good pitcher since coming into the league. Cheap, still pretty controllable. I wouldn’t complain As for your last sentence you are probs right and I just wasted time typing lol
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 3, 2020 21:41:29 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal. Red Sox send Betts to the Dodgers for Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs, Conner Wong and Marshall Kasowski. I take it that is your prediction? Wong wasn't the catcher I would anticipate. He tore up AA after struggling in a ball which is weird, but his BB/K ratio is awful and he's 24 I think? And Kasowski has nice numbers for a reliever albeit with control issues, but I would think they'd use this opportunity to get a badly needed starter for the farm system. I do like Jeter downs. And the fact that his name is Jeter?? Who cares??? I mean our current SS wears #2 in honor of Jeter and we like him, right? That's an interesting package, but they still need a get a viable starter out of this deal.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 3, 2020 21:47:58 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal. Red Sox send Betts to the Dodgers for Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs, Conner Wong and Marshall Kasowski. Where did you see that? Wong wasn't the catcher I would anticipate. He tore up AA after struggling in a ball which is weird, but his BB/K ratio is awful and he's 24 I think? And Kasowski has nice numbers for a reliever, but I would have thought they'd use this opportunity to get a badly needed starter for the farm system. I do like Jeter downs. And the fact that his name is Jeter?? Who cares??? I mean our current SS wears #2 in honor of Jeter and we like him, right? I think he was just making a prediction.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 3, 2020 21:51:05 GMT -5
Where did you see that? Wong wasn't the catcher I would anticipate. He tore up AA after struggling in a ball which is weird, but his BB/K ratio is awful and he's 24 I think? And Kasowski has nice numbers for a reliever, but I would have thought they'd use this opportunity to get a badly needed starter for the farm system. I do like Jeter downs. And the fact that his name is Jeter?? Who cares??? I mean our current SS wears #2 in honor of Jeter and we like him, right? I think he was just making a prediction. Yeah, I just figured that out (I'm a friggin rocket scientist, aren't I?) and adjusted my post. The silver lining is that I got myself educated on who Kasowski and Wong are. I hope they do better than that, but I think as a 4th piece Kasowski could be interesting although guys without control drive me nuts.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 3, 2020 22:05:43 GMT -5
I’ve been reading the Dodgers top 30 for the last week
Seems like they have a p nice system. That could be us one day soon!
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 3, 2020 22:33:34 GMT -5
I’ve been reading the Dodgers top 30 for the last week Seems like they have a p nice system. That could be us one day soon! ....some day....To get back to a top 5 system, wishin' and hopin' aside, will take several good drafts, sagacious international scouting/signings, luck, consistent skills development.....AND no draft penalties from MLB.....Anyone seen Santa?
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 3, 2020 22:48:38 GMT -5
Gammons on with 97.3 FM in San Diego today... 973thefansd.radio.com/blogs/gwynn-chris/peter-gammons-thinks-mookie-betts-is-a-padres-possibility- Thinks the Padres still have a chance, but their offer lacks a "really good player", and can't see why the Red Sox would want Wil Myers. - Padres could be "really dynamic" with Mookie in the leadoff spot. - Thinks Mookie would sign with the Dodgers. Also thinks Mookie would sign with the Padres, but the Padres can't afford him. - "Not much hesitation on the Dodgers' part to trade Alex Verdugo." - Red Sox want "at least one pretty good pitcher" from LA - even if it's Josiah Gray. - Red Sox want more than just getting Jeter Downs and one more guy who's not necessarily going to be a starter. - Thinks that getting Gray in addition to Downs and Verdugo will be hard, because the Dodgers don't have any assurances that Mookie will stay. - Doesn't think Luis Patino is completely off limits, but would be a "tough" deal for Padres to make. Pedro Martinez loves Patino. - Red Sox aren't certain about cheating penalties, potential loss of draft picks. Farm system not great, no star pitchers on the horizon. - Red Sox don't think they'll get hit especially hard by Commissioner's Office. - Red Sox started using Apple Watches in 2016 after they picked up Chris Young... who says he showed it to Red Sox players after learning how to use it from his time with the Yankees.
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Post by kman22 on Feb 3, 2020 23:35:05 GMT -5
A little confusing, but some positives to take from that, even if it's with a grain of salt.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 4, 2020 0:08:47 GMT -5
The more reports you see, the more it seems to come into focus. The Dodgers package is Verdugo, Downs, a pitcher and another prospect.
You certainly start with Gray, then Gonsolin, Ferguson, then maybe even Stripling. I'm fine with what seems like buying low with Ferguson, yet prefer Gonsolin as I don't see them including Gray.
Verdugo, Downs, Gonsolin, and Cartaya
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 4, 2020 1:11:05 GMT -5
Covers the Dodgers. FWIW, that’s the same package Gammons tweeted earlier.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 4, 2020 1:53:17 GMT -5
Covers the Dodgers. FWIW, that’s the same package Gammons tweeted earlier. He then quoted the tweet you posted and said that was what gammons has the deal as
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 4, 2020 4:25:14 GMT -5
The more reports you see, the more it seems to come into focus. The Dodgers package is Verdugo, Downs, a pitcher and another prospect. You certainly start with Gray, then Gonsolin, Ferguson, then maybe even Stripling. I'm fine with what seems like buying low with Ferguson, yet prefer Gonsolin as I don't see them including Gray. Verdugo, Downs, Gonsolin, and Cartaya I think that should be the package, but I don't think that is the package right now. Both Rob Bradford and Bowden now called the Gonsolin inclusion a non starter. I believe Downs, Verdugo, and that 4th prospect is on the table, but the Dodgers are being stingy once again like they always do in deals (they need 10 starters, not just 9 starters). I really believe they haven't offered a pitcher yet in the deal. The thing that's further complicating matters is San Diego is sort of floating around this idea that Patino might not be untouchable after all. Patino has never been a part of the equation until maybe recently. You're not getting Patino in a straight salary dump to get Myers after either. So trading Betts to San Diego might be the only chance you have to get him. All of these things is strictly my thinking and theory, but it makes sense based off of what we've heard so far. As a fan, it stinks waiting this long to find out and excruciating, but you can understand what Bloom is doing. He needs to do it too. This is like a 3 week long root canal. The three burning questions I have in order for this deal to get done- Which team blinks first or the most? (Most important question) How much do the Dodgers want to pay for Price? How much do the Padres want to unload Myers? I ask about Price because it's obvious that the Dodgers are going to make this painful to even ask for a third significant piece because Price is a part of the deal.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 4, 2020 4:55:56 GMT -5
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 6:47:14 GMT -5
I'd be pleasantly surprised if this occured. I doubt the Padres trade him but if you can pry him away then do it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 7:33:42 GMT -5
Bloom needs to get this done soon, enough waiting already. It's not like he's selling the Indians to Roger Dorn, the people on the other side of the table know what they're doing too
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 4, 2020 7:34:46 GMT -5
My guess in general: Mookie and Price for Verdugo, an IF prospect, a pitcher, and a bad contract. My guess in specific: Verdugo, Downs, Stripling, and Pollock. No extra cash besides taking Pollock, who becomes our RHH 4th OF and is either mediocre or got the right personal trainer and rebounds. Stripling contributes well. Dinnertime tonight, but physicals come later.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 8:19:24 GMT -5
My guess in general: Mookie and Price for Verdugo, an IF prospect, a pitcher, and a bad contract. My guess in specific: Verdugo, Downs, Stripling, and Pollock. No extra cash besides taking Pollock, who becomes our RHH 4th OF and is either mediocre or got the right personal trainer and rebounds. Stripling contributes well. Dinnertime tonight, but physicals come later. You're probably right. But this would more or less be the equivalent of 50 cents on the dollar. Basically so JWH can avoid paying the tax again. Stripling is 30. The contract is fine but he's a JAG. If thats the deal then I'd much rather have Ferguson over him. Seems like Gonsolin and Grey aren't coming which leaves us with this. If the power uptick last year was real then I guess Downs might make this trade more even than what it would seem on paper.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 4, 2020 9:54:27 GMT -5
My guess in general: Mookie and Price for Verdugo, an IF prospect, a pitcher, and a bad contract. My guess in specific: Verdugo, Downs, Stripling, and Pollock. No extra cash besides taking Pollock, who becomes our RHH 4th OF and is either mediocre or got the right personal trainer and rebounds. Stripling contributes well. Dinnertime tonight, but physicals come later. You're probably right. But this would more or less be the equivalent of 50 cents on the dollar. Basically so JWH can avoid paying the tax again. Stripling is 30. The contract is fine but he's a JAG. If thats the deal then I'd much rather have Ferguson over him. Seems like Gonsolin and Grey aren't coming which leaves us with this. If the power uptick last year was real then I guess Downs might make this trade more even than what it would seem on paper. You're certainly right that Ferguson has much more long-term value, but I think the position they are taking today is telling the Dodgers "we can't give you Price without getting a 2020 starter back." Stripling could be the Dodgers answer. Gonsolin would be wonderful, but I think Verdugo and Downs are very valuable, and think the third and fourth pieces are not going to be as valuable. Any other pitcher would not help right away.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 4, 2020 10:21:47 GMT -5
My guess in general: Mookie and Price for Verdugo, an IF prospect, a pitcher, and a bad contract. My guess in specific: Verdugo, Downs, Stripling, and Pollock. No extra cash besides taking Pollock, who becomes our RHH 4th OF and is either mediocre or got the right personal trainer and rebounds. Stripling contributes well. Dinnertime tonight, but physicals come later. I'm guessing that Pollock stays put although offsetting him as part of Price's deal does make sense, but I think the Dodgers would rather that the Sox pay half of Price's deal and keep Pollock for themselves as they can use him as a platoon piece with Pedersen (although they do have Taylor and Hernandez who can also platoon). Honestly I wouldn't mind the offset idea because the Sox could probably use Pollock. But ultimately I think if reports are correct, that Verudo is the centerpiece and Downs is a talent they want (no problem seeing why the Sox would want him!), it seems to me that they need to come away with a starting pitcher and it's hard to imagine that they wouldn't get a catcher out of the deal given how strong the Dodgers are with catchers in their minor league system and how weak the Sox are at that position. It sounds like the Sox want Gonsolin or more likely Gray, but are having Caleb Ferguson pushed on them. From what I've read he'd make a better reliever than starter, but if the Sox are getting Ferguson and they're dealing Price, then I imagine they have to get a starter back. I mean you have Sale, E-Rod, Eovaldi, and Perez as starters, little depth behind them and nobody for the #5 spot other than perhaps Tanner Houck, who is probably also better suited to relieving, so I guess it comes down to, for the Red Sox, do they feel Ferguson can be a viable starter? If they feel the answer is clearly no, then maybe they do have to settle for Stripling? It seems to me the Dodgers don't want to deal Gray or Gonsolin? The other thing is I have trouble believing they don't come away with a catcher. Perhaps Ruiz if they're willing to take Ferguson or Stripling. Or maybe if they take Gray, then maybe they have to take a much lower ceiling catcher like Wong? I'd love to see them get Diego Cartaya if that's a possibility.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 10:24:29 GMT -5
Seems like more reports are coming out that the Sox are not in a rush to trade Mookie. Apparently this was all a big waste of a week. Speier is usually spot on with these things.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 4, 2020 10:31:31 GMT -5
Seems like more reports are coming out that the Sox are not in a rush to trade Mookie. Apparently this was all a big waste of a week. Speier is usually spot on with these things. Bloom shouldn't rush. He has time, but soon, by time the camps open up, he would have had to make a trade. It would be very awkward for Betts to report and then get traded. I mean, it does happen, but this thing has been dragging on. I do wonder if the Pads would cave at some point and include Patino because a deal with Patino and Campusano might beat a deal with Verdugo and Downs. I guess that's subject to debate as Verdugo is already a good major league player and Downs has a real shot at becoming one, but Patino has top of the rotation potential and Campusano could have all-star catcher potential and it's a lot harder to obtain quality catching and a top of the rotation potential type starter than it is to get a good outfielder and an athletic middle of the diamond player. Of course the Sox would probably have to take on a ton of Wil Myers money to make that happen and if they do, how would they get under the luxury tax limit? Would the Dodgers still be interested in Price alone if the Sox paid half of his deal and required no talent coming back? And/or give away JBJ too?
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Post by kman22 on Feb 4, 2020 11:09:42 GMT -5
I can't see a scenario where Patino and Campusano have been offered and Bloom is still negotiating.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 11:36:01 GMT -5
I can't see a scenario where Patino and Campusano have been offered and Bloom is still negotiating. I can see a scenario where Bloom is dragging his feet because the return will be straight trash. But ownership is leaking out the deal is close as a way to put pressure on him to make the deal for luxury tax purposes. This certainly has the feel of a GM wanting whats best for the future of the team vs whats best for the finances of the team.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 4, 2020 11:37:52 GMT -5
I can't see a scenario where Patino and Campusano have been offered and Bloom is still negotiating. I can see a scenario where Bloom is dragging his feet because the return will be straight trash. But ownership is leaking out the deal is close as a way to put pressure on him to make the deal for luxury tax purposes. This certainly has the feel of a GM wanting whats best for the future of the team vs whats best for the finances of the team. I'm not sure Peter Gammons tweeting out updates is really making Bloom sweat.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 11:41:06 GMT -5
I can see a scenario where Bloom is dragging his feet because the return will be straight trash. But ownership is leaking out the deal is close as a way to put pressure on him to make the deal for luxury tax purposes. This certainly has the feel of a GM wanting whats best for the future of the team vs whats best for the finances of the team. I'm not sure Peter Gammons tweeting out updates is really making Bloom sweat. I mean I was referring more to the Rosenthal stuff. But leaking information is a hallmark of this ownership.
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