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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 23:26:41 GMT -5
This trade is really bad but I'm not about to put all the blame on Bloom when we don't know how much of this was ownership forcing his hand. This is unfortunately what Bloom was brought here to do, and he's doing it. And so far, he's doing a terrible job at it. This is all he was ever going to get for Mookie. That's why I never wanted to trade him in the first place.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 4, 2020 23:26:47 GMT -5
I'm officially team Bloom sucks. Not only did he throw in a ton of cash. He waited until the end of the offseason and he got a terrible return for our MVP. Bring back Dombrowski Its probably Henry, not Bloom who wanted Price in the deal.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 23:27:25 GMT -5
I’m not sure about this deal because I feel as though if the Twins felt Graterol’s stuff, command and strength all add to a big up arrow next to his name, with a future as a frontline starter a distinct possibility, they wouldn’t have traded him away. Did Bloom just trade for a future Closer? I like Verdugo. And I really wish he got Jeter Downs. They traded this amazing prospect for fucking Kenta Maeda. Let that sink in. Twins cashed out for as high of value as they possibly could have.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 4, 2020 23:28:48 GMT -5
What they're paying David Price over the next three seasons will only be a few million less than three years' worth of the Sandoval contract. Mark it down on the previous FO's ledger, along with the fact that winning a WS - which Price was a big part of - dumps tens of millions into your coffers. That's a hell of a lot more than can be said about Sandoval.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 4, 2020 23:29:05 GMT -5
I'm officially team Bloom sucks. Not only did he throw in a ton of cash. He waited until the end of the offseason and he got a terrible return for our MVP. Bring back Dombrowski Its probably Henry, not Bloom who wanted Price in the deal. This was absolutely a Henry deal
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 4, 2020 23:29:42 GMT -5
This trade is really bad but I'm not about to put all the blame on Bloom when we don't know how much of this was ownership forcing his hand. This is unfortunately what Bloom was brought here to do, and he's doing it. it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people around here aren't going to blame Bloom. He accepted the job, mandates and all. He is the lead of the baseball operations of the team. There is no one else to blame, if there is blame to even be had.. Not ownership, not the players, not the fans. And I guarantee you, he would be the first to say it.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 4, 2020 23:29:49 GMT -5
And so far, he's doing a terrible job at it. This is all he was ever going to get for Mookie. That's why I never wanted to trade him in the first place. The whole trading your 27 year old MVP is part of the terrible job he is doing. Absurdly stupid. Beyond reasonable thought. Its probably Henry, not Bloom who wanted Price in the deal. This was absolutely a Henry deal People keep saying this, but it doesn't make it more true. Henry mandated the Red Sox cut cost. Not that the trade away their 27 year old MVP for pennies on the dollar. We couldn't even get quarters.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 4, 2020 23:31:33 GMT -5
This trade is really bad but I'm not about to put all the blame on Bloom when we don't know how much of this was ownership forcing his hand. This is unfortunately what Bloom was brought here to do, and he's doing it. And so far, he's doing a terrible job at it. I don't think he is, and again I hate this trade. But if ownership has made it abundantly clear that Mookie needs to be traded, you're not going to get value for him. There's no leverage. So the only other option is not trading him, which of course is not in line with ownership's plan. While the Red Sox are ultimately in a worse spot for 2020 than they were in 2019, but given the constraints it seems obvious that are being placed on Bloom I don't think there's any way you could logically claim he's doing a terrible job. And if you do, you have to add the caveat he's being forced to.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 4, 2020 23:32:34 GMT -5
This trade is really bad but I'm not about to put all the blame on Bloom when we don't know how much of this was ownership forcing his hand. This is unfortunately what Bloom was brought here to do, and he's doing it. it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people around here aren't going to blame Bloom. He accepted the job, mandates and all. He is the lead of the baseball operations of the team. There is no one else to blame, if there is blame to even be had.. Not ownership, not the players, not the fans. And I guarantee you, he would be the first to say it. I don't think you understand how the power structure in sports works. You do what the owner wants. Period.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 4, 2020 23:34:01 GMT -5
Do people think Bloom dragged this out until February for s**ts and giggles? I have no doubt he took the best deal that was available under the circumstances.
This is on Henry, full stop.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 4, 2020 23:34:49 GMT -5
And so far, he's doing a terrible job at it. I don't think he is, and again I hate this trade. But if ownership has made it abundantly clear that Mookie needs to be traded, you're not going to get value for him. There's no leverage. So the only other option is not trading him, which of course is not in line with ownership's plan. While the Red Sox are ultimately in a worse spot for 2020 than they were in 2019, but given the constraints it seems obvious that are being placed on Bloom I don't think there's any way you could logically claim he's doing a terrible job. And if you do, you have to add the caveat he's being forced to. You are naive if you think ownership hired this guy and said trade our beloved homegrown star to cut cost. They said, cut cost and Bloom decided that the best way to do that was to tag an albatross contract onto our superstar and send him out of town for pennies on the dollar. To put the blame for this atrocious trade on anyone but Bloom is garbage. He negotiate the terms. He decided who to move on from. He owns this trash bag.
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orion09
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Post by orion09 on Feb 4, 2020 23:35:30 GMT -5
Atrocious. Just absolute rancid garbage.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 4, 2020 23:36:03 GMT -5
This trade was so unbelievably bad that if I'm Bernie Sanders, I'm running my campaign mentioning it as often as possible. The idea that rich people only want to f*ck you was never more crystal clear as it was with John Henry here.
Occupy Fenway!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 4, 2020 23:36:03 GMT -5
it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people around here aren't going to blame Bloom. He accepted the job, mandates and all. He is the lead of the baseball operations of the team. There is no one else to blame, if there is blame to even be had.. Not ownership, not the players, not the fans. And I guarantee you, he would be the first to say it. I don't think you understand how the power structure in sports works. You do what the owner wants. Period. I understand that your post has a lot of confirmation bias to it. There is nothing that would lead me to believe that the ownership mandated this trade. More to the point, there have been articles stating the same. Now we can agree that may be misinformation, and we could agree that this was alll the market would allow, but the timing and return was his decision only.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 4, 2020 23:36:24 GMT -5
Do people think Bloom dragged this out until February for s**ts and giggles? I have no doubt he took the best deal that was available under the circumstances. This is on Henry, full stop. The fact that he dragged this on until February and STILL took this garbage ass package is even worse. He could have made this trade in November and we could have built an actual team. Bloom stinks.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 4, 2020 23:37:04 GMT -5
This is all he was ever going to get for Mookie. That's why I never wanted to trade him in the first place. The whole trading your 27 year old MVP is part of the terrible job he is doing. Absurdly stupid. Beyond reasonable thought. This was absolutely a Henry deal People keep saying this, but it doesn't make it more true. Henry mandated the Red Sox cut cost. Not that the trade away their 27 year old MVP for pennies on the dollar. Mookie Betts is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. You are just as likely to sign him if he's there or here. This was already a very mediocre team going into this season. David Price is old and injury prone. You got back a young power hitter who you control for 5 years and a power arm. There's a real chance the kid they just got provides more value than Price in 2 years. Again, the Sox accomplished their goals here and acquired REAL young talent. If you want to blame anyone for losing Betts then blame Dombrowski. If not for Eovaldi and Sale, you'd have the money for Betts. I'm actually glad they're shedding pieces and positioning themselves to get younger and maybe a decent draft pick.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 4, 2020 23:38:31 GMT -5
I’m not sure about this deal because I feel as though if the Twins felt Graterol’s stuff, command and strength all add to a big up arrow next to his name, with a future as a frontline starter a distinct possibility, they wouldn’t have traded him away. Did Bloom just trade for a future Closer? I like Verdugo. And I really wish he got Jeter Downs. They traded this amazing prospect for fucking Kenta Maeda. Let that sink in. Twins cashed out for as high of value as they possibly could have. The guy you’re trying to tear down is now the Sox #1 prospect Also this was pointed out to me by one of you pages and pages ago- go take a look at Kenta’s contract, how much he is worth relative to that, and the fact that the twins wanted to add another starter In an effort to win now to have a better understanding on why they did it At first I thought it was a bad move by them but I get it now. I mean it’s kind of an indictment on how good Graterol can be in the future when he is 20 and pitched himself into a trade for a proven, good, and cheap, major league starting pitcher. He’s obviously got question marks. With the kind of arm talent he has if he didn’t then he would be completely untouchable. But the possible reward there is massive. And honestly his “flaming out” probably means he’s a high leverage reliever
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 4, 2020 23:41:01 GMT -5
I’m not sure about this deal because I feel as though if the Twins felt Graterol’s stuff, command and strength all add to a big up arrow next to his name, with a future as a frontline starter a distinct possibility, they wouldn’t have traded him away. Did Bloom just trade for a future Closer? I like Verdugo. And I really wish he got Jeter Downs. They traded this amazing prospect for fucking Kenta Maeda. Let that sink in. Twins cashed out for as high of value as they possibly could have. Why do you have to use that language? Shouldn’t an “amazing prospect” bring back more then a 32yr old Kenta Maeda?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 4, 2020 23:41:40 GMT -5
Do people think Bloom dragged this out until February for s**ts and giggles? I have no doubt he took the best deal that was available under the circumstances. This is on Henry, full stop. The fact that he dragged this on until February and STILL took this garbage ass package is even worse. He could have made this trade in November and we could have built an actual team. Bloom stinks. You realize there other parties involved in this other than the Red Sox, yes?
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Post by julyanmorley on Feb 4, 2020 23:42:59 GMT -5
Right now I have the Red Sox at 84.5 wins for 2020.
For 2021, they will be about 50 million under the draft pick tax after arbitration. Bradley is the only free agent.
Things will be fine.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Feb 4, 2020 23:44:12 GMT -5
I guess the Red Sox offseason officially just started a week before spring training
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 4, 2020 23:44:30 GMT -5
The fact that he dragged this on until February and STILL took this garbage ass package is even worse. He could have made this trade in November and we could have built an actual team. Bloom stinks. You realize there other parties involved in this other than the Red Sox, yes? You realize that the Red Sox were the party trading a 27 year old MVP....the 2nd best player in baseball over the past 4 years. IF all you were gonna trade him for was trash and salary relief should have traded him in November and moved on. Some team would have given this garbage back then too.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 4, 2020 23:47:42 GMT -5
Do people think Bloom dragged this out until February for s**ts and giggles? I have no doubt he took the best deal that was available under the circumstances. This is on Henry, full stop. The fact that he dragged this on until February and STILL took this garbage ass package is even worse. He could have made this trade in November and we could have built an actual team. Bloom stinks. Dude, I know you're pissed. I get it. But Bloom didn't create this mess. He inherited it. They didn't trade Mookie in November because Bloom had barely been hired and they were still trying to negotiate with Betts to keep him. Plus he was trying to get a team to take Price and JBJ and there were no takers. There was no way they were going to trade Mookie for one year and staple Price to him and get a deal where the fanbase was going to say, "Wow, we did great in this deal!!" They could have kept Mookie and took their chances, but you know damn well that the front office, after signing off on Eovaldi's re-signing and Sale's early contract extension, was over the luxury tax limit wanting to get under. And that was John Henry's desire, not Chaim Bloom. The Red Sox were backed into a choice of playing the season out and hoping to get lucky that they'd be in serious contention for a Wild Card or face reality, that if their pitching, which wasn't going to be improved due to budgetary restrictions, they weren't likely going to go to the playoffs with Mookie, so their choice was watch Mookie leave for a 5th round pick or get the best deal they could for him. And they knew damn well the deal wouldn't be very good, so here we are. I don't love the deal. If Graterol is just a reliever, then the deal's return is a big disappointment. If Graterol can be a #2 or #3 starter then the Sox did as well as can be expected. I'm not too optimistic that a 265 lb guy with an injury history and violent motion can be as starter rather than a reliever however. So, I'm still on the fence regarding Bloom. I want to see over the next few years how he rebuilds the team and the farm system. All I know is that they might as well tear down the rest of this team. In July I would suspect that JDM, Workman, JBJ, and Moreland will all be traded.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 4, 2020 23:49:08 GMT -5
They traded this amazing prospect for fucking Kenta Maeda. Let that sink in. Twins cashed out for as high of value as they possibly could have. The guy you’re trying to tear down is now the Sox #1 prospect Also this was pointed out to me by one of you pages and pages ago- go take a look at Kenta’s contract, how much he is worth relative to that, and the fact that the twins wanted to add another starter In an effort to win now to have a better understanding on why they did it At first I thought it was a bad move by them but I get it now. I mean it’s kind of an indictment on how good Graterol can be in the future when he is 20 and pitched himself into a trade for a proven, good, and cheap, major league starting pitcher. He’s obviously got question marks. With the kind of arm talent he has if he didn’t then he would be completely untouchable. But the possible reward there is massive. And honestly his “flaming out” probably means he’s a high leverage reliever I wasn’t trying to “tear down” anybody. I was simply asking a question. Stop trying to read between the lines. If Graterol does become the #1 prospect I think it’s more a reflection of the system then it is of him.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 4, 2020 23:52:10 GMT -5
You realize there other parties involved in this other than the Red Sox, yes? You realize that the Red Sox were the party trading a 27 year old MVP....the 2nd best player in baseball over the past 4 years. IF all you were gonna trade him for was trash and salary relief should have traded him in November and moved on. Some team would have given this garbage back then too. Who was a free agent and is going to take $1 more than the next contract the following season, regardless as to where he is? Not to mention a vastly over-paid starter who might not be more valuable than the prospect you got back in year 2? Again, ownership is clearly not prioritizing this season, a season in which they failed to even make one of 2 Wild Card spots and made no moves to improve this team. If their ceiling was a Wild Card spot then they should do whatever it takes to fix this team for 2021 and beyond. Dombrowski is why this is all happening. Edit: this is also why it was hard to find the next GM. Literally everyone coming in and around baseball knew the Red Sox were going to trade Mookie Betts. This was predicted long before Bloom even walked through that door. This was part of his job description.
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