|
Post by trajanacc on Feb 5, 2020 6:55:42 GMT -5
This grades out as a fair, if not advantageous trade for the Sox.
I expected casual Red Sox fans to react like this but not so many on this board.
Most of you only seem to care that Betts and Price are/have been great players and Verdugo/Graterol are unproven, as if their trade values are based solely on past performance.
Obviously salary, years of team control, and future projections are of great importance as well, but 90% of you are ignoring that, as if the team has unlimited money to spend and 2020 is the last season in the history or baseball.
Consider: the front office is highly motivated to win. They have access to loads of information about the players. They have experience and expertise in making complex baseball decisions that none of us do. Maybe, just maybe, they made a reasoned and intelligent decision?
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 6:56:02 GMT -5
bUt wE hAvE fInAnCiaL fLeXiBiLitY nOw
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:00:11 GMT -5
This grades out as a fair, if not advantageous trade for the Sox. I expected casual Red Sox fans to react like this but not so many on this board. Most of you only seem to care that Betts and Price are/have been great players and Verdugo/Graterol are unproven, as if their trade values are based solely on past performance. Obviously salary, years of team control, and future projections are of great importance as well, but 90% of you are ignoring that, as if the team has unlimited money to spend and 2020 is the last season in the history or baseball. Consider: the front office is highly motivated to win. They have access to loads of information about the players. They have experience and expertise in making complex baseball decisions that none of us do. Maybe, just maybe, they made a reasoned and intelligent decision? The source of my anger is that the Sox could have gotten more from the Dodgers for Betts alone. I'm sure they could have gotten the Angels to bite on Price at 14 million a year. The problem probably was that the Dodgers wanted the Sox to take Pollock or Pederson back and Henry put a mandate on not taking back salary. I mean holy crap they received a pretty good young player with a very checkered past which needs to be addressed as sexual assault is not a joke and a top prospect with serious questions about durability and weight. That is not a good return for a top 3 player in baseball let alone a subsidized David Price on top of that same top 3 player.
|
|
|
Post by trajanacc on Feb 5, 2020 7:02:10 GMT -5
This grades out as a fair, if not advantageous trade for the Sox. I expected casual Red Sox fans to react like this but not so many on this board. Most of you only seem to care that Betts and Price are/have been great players and Verdugo/Graterol are unproven, as if their trade values are based solely on past performance. Obviously salary, years of team control, and future projections are of great importance as well, but 90% of you are ignoring that, as if the team has unlimited money to spend and 2020 is the last season in the history or baseball. Consider: the front office is highly motivated to win. They have access to loads of information about the players. They have experience and expertise in making complex baseball decisions that none of us do. Maybe, just maybe, they made a reasoned and intelligent decision? The source of my anger is that the Sox could have gotten more from the Dodgers for Betts alone. I'm sure they could have gotten the Angels to bite on Price at 14 million a year. The problem probably was that the Dodgers wanted the Sox to take Pollock or Pederson back and Henry put a mandate on not taking back salary. I mean holy crap they received a pretty good young player with a very checkered past which needs to be addressed as sexual assault is not a joke and a top prospect with serious questions about durability and weight. That is not a good return for a top 3 player in baseball let alone a subsidized David Price on top of that same top 3 player. How do you know this?
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:03:39 GMT -5
This is the return you get for going for it at the deadline last year instead of punting on the season. Mookie would have netted more with a year and a half left. Yeah. Price wouldn't have been forced down another teams throat. JWH still would have been trying to dump payroll. But the return for Betts as of February 5th is awful. Hard to fathom a worse realistic return.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:05:33 GMT -5
The source of my anger is that the Sox could have gotten more from the Dodgers for Betts alone. I'm sure they could have gotten the Angels to bite on Price at 14 million a year. The problem probably was that the Dodgers wanted the Sox to take Pollock or Pederson back and Henry put a mandate on not taking back salary. I mean holy crap they received a pretty good young player with a very checkered past which needs to be addressed as sexual assault is not a joke and a top prospect with serious questions about durability and weight. That is not a good return for a top 3 player in baseball let alone a subsidized David Price on top of that same top 3 player. How do you know this? Look at comparable pitchers to David Price and those contracts. This isn't Eovaldi. As for the prospects all you have to do is read the scouting reports. Brusdar has gone from 177 to 265 pounds and has severe questions about being able to exceed 150 innings. The Verdugo/Baldwin incident is probably a good guess as to why Nick Francona left baseball.
|
|
|
Post by trajanacc on Feb 5, 2020 7:11:00 GMT -5
Look at comparable pitchers to David Price and those contracts. This isn't Eovaldi. As for the prospects all you have to do is read the scouting reports. Brusdar has gone from 177 to 265 pounds and has severe questions about being able to exceed 150 innings. The Verdugo/Baldwin incident is probably a good guess as to why Nick Francona left baseball. So, complete speculation. I’ll trust the pros.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:11:45 GMT -5
I wasn’t trying to “tear down” anybody. I was simply asking a question. Stop trying to read between the lines. If Graterol does become the #1 prospect I think it’s more a reflection of the system then it is of him. I was talking to the guy I quoted and not you......? Its a reflection of the Sox farm system. You call it trying to tear down I call it having serious concerns about his weight and durability. This is an extremely light return.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:14:04 GMT -5
Look at comparable pitchers to David Price and those contracts. This isn't Eovaldi. As for the prospects all you have to do is read the scouting reports. Brusdar has gone from 177 to 265 pounds and has severe questions about being able to exceed 150 innings. The Verdugo/Baldwin incident is probably a good guess as to why Nick Francona left baseball. So, complete speculation. I’ll trust the pros. Then I don't know why you are happy. The "pros" are more or less also blasting the trade. Fangraphs and other sites have hammered this deal. I think the only site who thinks it benefits Boston is baseball value where it looks at Prices total contract as negative 50 when in reality its not at 14 million. Please show me one single clued in person who thought this trade was good for Boston. I'll wait. Unless by Pros you mean Bloom and Henry in which case please proceed with the head in the sand and whistling in the rain while thinking everything is fine...
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 5, 2020 7:26:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Feb 5, 2020 7:35:18 GMT -5
Mookie + Price + $16M x 3 years for Verdugo and a two-pitch guy who will likely be a reliever = Bloom just got bent over the trade table by his old boss. This is disgusting. If Mookie leaves the Dodgers next year and Price doesn't pitch better than 2019, would you feel differently? Yes, because will never know if this team could’ve made a run. We won’t have a team like that for years, I don’t care what they say About resetting. As for Price, he was very good until he got injured in 2019. I would’ve at least taken him into the All-Star break, especially with the ownership team telling us over and over again how he and Sale are ready to go. This is just a bad deal. Ownership is treating this team like they’re the Kansas City Royals or something. this does nothing more than put money in the owners pockets. if you look at the upcoming free agents, there is nothing to reload on. You have Mookie, Springer - Who will be 31 and not have a trashcan - and there isn’t a pitcher worth a damn on the free-agent market, and no one in the system at AA-AAA or even A projected to be better than a #3 This past year was the year to get a starter, with regards to free agents; the year before was the year to get relievers. Instead the Red Sox did nothing, and this is a big solution? What a joke. It’s beyond a white flag move. It’s a bad deal.
|
|
|
Post by humanbeingbean on Feb 5, 2020 7:37:11 GMT -5
This next year or so, we might see the Red Sox roster get overhauled more than it has in a long time. Bloom’s been given an awful hand to work with. Let’s just hope a Devers extension can be worked out.
|
|
|
Post by trajanacc on Feb 5, 2020 7:39:34 GMT -5
So, complete speculation. I’ll trust the pros. Then I don't know why you are happy. The "pros" are more or less also blasting the trade. Fangraphs and other sites have hammered this deal. I think the only site who thinks it benefits Boston is baseball value where it looks at Prices total contract as negative 50 when in reality its not at 14 million. Please show me one single clued in person who thought this trade was good for Boston. I'll wait. Unless by Pros you mean Bloom and Henry in which case please proceed with the head in the sand and whistling in the rain while thinking everything is fine... Pros meaning the people actually hired to make baseball decisions, who have experience, expertise, and access to way more information than anyone here or in the media. Being a baseball journalist is a half a step above being a message board poster. It’s a long way from working in a front office of an MLB team. Maybe you think Bill Belichick should be consulting with Steve Burton on personnel decisions?
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 7:40:31 GMT -5
Again, I think the fact that: A. Price didn't opt out. B. The Red Sox felt compelled to take on half his contract Should tell you all you need to know about how MLB felt about David Price. C. A very smart team that desperately wants to win the World Series decided that David Price should be a major piece of their rotation. At only 16 million a year and only as a throw in to get Mookie Betts.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Feb 5, 2020 7:42:15 GMT -5
This next year or so, we might see the Red Sox roster get overhauled more than it has in a long time. Bloom’s been given an awful hand to work with. Let’s just hope a Devers extension can be worked out. This is not the 2012 team, but they sure are suddenly acting like it is. I am not giving a dime to the Boston Red Sox this year.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:44:16 GMT -5
Then I don't know why you are happy. The "pros" are more or less also blasting the trade. Fangraphs and other sites have hammered this deal. I think the only site who thinks it benefits Boston is baseball value where it looks at Prices total contract as negative 50 when in reality its not at 14 million. Please show me one single clued in person who thought this trade was good for Boston. I'll wait. Unless by Pros you mean Bloom and Henry in which case please proceed with the head in the sand and whistling in the rain while thinking everything is fine... Pros meaning the people actually hired to make baseball decisions, who have experience, expertise, and access to way more information than anyone here or in the media. Being a baseball journalist is a half a step above being a message board poster. It’s a long way from working in a front office of an MLB team. Maybe you think Bill Belichick should be consulting with Steve Burton on personnel decisions? Bill Belichick wouldn't trade Tom Brady in his prime to get rid of a bad contract. Thats the difference. Belichick has built up the cache of In Bill We Trust. Bloom has not. Now to be fair I do not blame Chaim one bit. He did the best he could with the hand he was dealt. He most likely felt severe pressure from Henry and had to make a deal before camp. This all falls on the shoulders of John Henry. Funny you mention the blogger thing though. I wonder if the Sox have ever employed a high ranking baseball executive that used to blog?
|
|
|
Post by willacky on Feb 5, 2020 7:48:39 GMT -5
He really has one of the nastiest pitches in all of baseball with his FB/SL as a 20 year old kid. I've never seen any pitcher throw 101mph sinker with such a smooth delivery. After watching some of his games he kind of reminded me Fausto Carmona but Carmona didn't throw 101!!! As he reportedly has a decent chance to stick as a starter, he might become something special in the future.
|
|
|
Post by kevfc89 on Feb 5, 2020 7:49:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 7:49:47 GMT -5
Is it really like Babe Ruth? They traded Ruth to finance a musical. They traded Betts because he was very likely going to another team in 2021 after a predictably mediocre/borderline 2020 season. It's funny, trading him made it more likely they can re-sign Betts.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 7:52:05 GMT -5
Is it really like Babe Ruth? They traded Ruth to finance a musical. They traded Betts because he was very likely going to another team in 2021 after a predictably mediocre/borderline 2020 season. It's funny, trading him made it more likely they can re-sign Betts. Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 7:53:15 GMT -5
So, complete speculation. I’ll trust the pros. Then I don't know why you are happy. The "pros" are more or less also blasting the trade. Fangraphs and other sites have hammered this deal. I think the only site who thinks it benefits Boston is baseball value where it looks at Prices total contract as negative 50 when in reality its not at 14 million. Please show me one single clued in person who thought this trade was good for Boston. I'll wait. Unless by Pros you mean Bloom and Henry in which case please proceed with the head in the sand and whistling in the rain while thinking everything is fine... Many people here are looking at it simply as trading beloved Mookie and Price for Verdugo and Graterol. Were that the case, we got hosed. That's not what happened. We traded 1 year of Mookie and a 34 year old vastly overpaid, oft disgruntled Price for 2 younger (21, 24) players who will likely play longer than those we traded. We also shed 42 million in salary to get under the cap. We were going to be harshly penalized this year and we would have lost Mookie at year end for a measly compensatory draft pick. How would you rate that return? The only upside of keeping Mookie was if we won the Series. I wouldn't rate that a high probability....given the Sale/Price history of injuries and innings eater Porcello gone. We wouldn't have been able to add at the deadline either. It will take a few years to come back no doubt. I expect, as the season unfolds, that Martinez is dealt too. If Sale does well, he also is likely gone....This is the beginning of a reset. It happens to all teams in all sports...even the Patriots. You gotta know when to hold and when to fold.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 7:56:48 GMT -5
Is it really like Babe Ruth? They traded Ruth to finance a musical. They traded Betts because he was very likely going to another team in 2021 after a predictably mediocre/borderline 2020 season. It's funny, trading him made it more likely they can re-sign Betts. Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense. I don't expect him back either, but they have more budget space to make it happen if they wanted to.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 7:59:02 GMT -5
Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense. I don't expect him back either, but they have more budget space to make it happen if they wanted to. or more likely someone else next year and the year after....
|
|
|
Post by kevfc89 on Feb 5, 2020 8:00:46 GMT -5
Is it really like Babe Ruth? They traded Ruth to finance a musical. They traded Betts because he was very likely going to another team in 2021 after a predictably mediocre/borderline 2020 season. It's funny, trading him made it more likely they can re-sign Betts. Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense. I think the chances the Sox re-sign Betts is higher than most seem to think. Mookie maintains that he wants to get to free agency, so I don't see him extending with the Dodgers before that. Mookie is worth a huge deal, but there's still only so many teams who will take on such a huge commitment of dollars and years. The Sox are generally one of those teams with the means to do it, and if we outbid every other team why wouldn't he come back?
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 8:10:43 GMT -5
Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense. I think the chances the Sox re-sign Betts is higher than most seem to think. Mookie maintains that he wants to get to free agency, so I don't see him extending with the Dodgers before that. Mookie is worth a huge deal, but there's still only so many teams who will take on such a huge commitment of dollars and years. The Sox are generally one of those teams with the means to do it, and if we outbid every other team why wouldn't he come back? It's possible but very remote IMO if only that the New Order will be more like the Rays. Big, long term contracts are not on the menu going forward. And, as remarkable as Mookie is, he depends on bat speed. How will that 'age' 4-5 years into the mission? Dodgers and Yankees are the two prime competitors as they reset their payrolls.
|
|