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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 14:54:56 GMT -5
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. The Dodgers is considered more of a pitchers park. bleacherreport.com/articles/2022901-ranking-mlbs-most-hitter-friendly-ballparks-by-the-numbers#slide0No idea how to Google this, but I read that Mookie's Fenway's doubles will likely be outs in LA. Not saying he won't be an MVP out there, but it could suppress his numbers a bit.
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Post by orion09 on Feb 5, 2020 14:55:28 GMT -5
My theory is that Dombrowski wasn't supposed to go over last year, but he did by accident because it was just him and La Russa adding up numbers on the back of a cocktail napkin and they screwed up the math, and that's why he got fired. They were hiding in their luxury box with ham sandwiches and "NO NERDS ALLOWED" scrawled on the door.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 5, 2020 14:57:49 GMT -5
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. Keeping us on our toes with the elusive triple negative!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2020 14:58:40 GMT -5
End of the day, it's Henry cutting the checks. If he bothered to inquire about the numbers he'd have seen they were destined to go over. If he didn't believe in Sale and Eovaldi, he could have said no. If my (half-serious) theory were actually correct, I would blame Henry for hiring someone as incompetent as Dombrowski. But I wouldn't blame him for not weighing in on specific free agent signings. I mean really, people, do you want your billionaire owner meddling in individual contract decisions? That's how you get the kind of Steinbrennerism that screwed up the Yankees for decades. Incompetent? Really? I don't want an owner meddling, but it's his job to give his GM marching orders. The idea that DD got the numbers wrong is comical. More like DD talked our owner into going for it and when it didn't workout he did a 180, fired DD and demanded we get under. Which is on our owner, he could have waited a year and if like he has said many times getting under was always the goal. You don't sign off on Eovaldi. Then you basically just non-tender Bradley and you are under. DD didn't go rogue, he has a long history of doing what owners want from going all in, to selling off the whole team to rebuild after just winning a championship. It's just like with Bloom, his orders were to get under. Heck maybe even trade Betts do we don't lose him for nothing. I don't for a second think he was ordered to trade both Betts and Price. That was his vision and is on him. Also like why the hell did Bloom wait so long to get active trading Betts? He's not off to a good start, allowing the Pham deal to happen before he even put Betts out there.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2020 15:03:00 GMT -5
I listened to the podcast and everything Chris and Ian had to say made sense to me. A quick recap. 1. Ian pointed out several times that Verdugo straight up for Betts was a decent return given the circumstances. Keep in mind that Verdugo was the Dodgers #2 prospect in 2018 and is still only 23. 2. The Sox were an 84 win team last year and it's highly unlikely they were going to win the World Series if they had retained Betts and Price. 3. With the Luxury Tax reset the Sox can now seek to resign Betts after the season. 4. Graterol for Price allowed the Sox to get rid of a large (assumed) portion of what was owed to Price in in return they got back a 21 year old pitching prospect who if he starts off in the minors will be the #1 or #2 prospect in the system. I thought on the last podcast they both agreed that just Verdugo wasn't enough and they'd take the Padres offer over that? Yet Verdugo and Downs was a different story.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,694
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Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2020 15:26:10 GMT -5
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. Keeping us on our toes with the elusive triple negative! I’m sitting over here with an abacus making sure I have this right
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Post by juanpena on Feb 5, 2020 15:35:43 GMT -5
Yesterday Dan O Dowd was adamant the Dodgers were not going to take Price in any deal, but now he is all aboard saying he was a tremendous get for the Dodgers. When you get David Price for 3 years for $45 million when Dallas Keuchel gets 3/55, that is a tremendous get -- and a tremendous bargain. With all the money the Sox kicked in, it's amazing Bloom couldn't get a minor leaguer from the Dodgers. Even if you get their No. 20 prospect, at least you've got a slim chance the player makes the majors.
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Post by lennsakata on Feb 5, 2020 15:40:43 GMT -5
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. Looks like there was minimal difference in homeruns for right handed batters between Fenway and LAD (19 vs 21 out of 60 total parks/handedness). Doubles would be impacted...7th most beneficial park for doubles is Fenway/RH while LAD/RH is 57th legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=2800838
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2020 15:42:07 GMT -5
I think mookies fit at Fenway is an underrated reason for why this situation stinks That monster swing and right field defense
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Post by Guidas on Feb 5, 2020 15:46:09 GMT -5
Why would you not wait until the trade deadline to deal Price? His value would almost certainly be higher and you could likely get several teams involved in a bidding war. What if he's hurt or sucks? Sunk cost asset. I'm sure they have insurance for injury. Not that we'd ever know because it doesn't count against Luxury Tax.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 5, 2020 15:55:49 GMT -5
Gammons with his usual cryptic tweets:
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2020 15:56:30 GMT -5
ok gammo
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 5, 2020 16:02:52 GMT -5
Its either the Reds or Cardinals IMO. The Sox better come out of this with more than two players. This is ridiculous. 2nd player has to be a pitcher. Maybe twins and we get Graterol? Just thought this was impressive that you nailed it and got a guy you think was a good get. On another note, here's hoping for a return to 2016 JBJ
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 5, 2020 16:08:43 GMT -5
I view Verdugo as JBJ's replacement after Mookie is re-signed.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 5, 2020 16:13:48 GMT -5
Gammons with his usual cryptic tweets: Is gammons ok?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 5, 2020 16:15:50 GMT -5
I view Verdugo as JBJ's replacement after Mookie is re-signed. That's the only thought that would make me feel better but frankly I don't believe they're going to re-sign Betts. I don't trust them to throw that kind of money at him and do what it takes to bring him back to Boston. I think he has already played his last game as a Red Sox.
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Post by wildsox on Feb 5, 2020 16:20:55 GMT -5
What's the holdup in this deal being officially announced? Still waiting on physicals?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 16:26:20 GMT -5
I view Verdugo as JBJ's replacement after Mookie is re-signed. I'd love for this to be true. But he's gone. Probably not coming back. He's going to love the limelight and Hollywood. But it would make the deal at least seem on the surface less insane.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 5, 2020 16:27:28 GMT -5
What's the holdup in this deal being officially announced? Still waiting on physicals? Hopefully Verdugo's back is all messed up and he fails his physical and forces the Dodgers to actually give a valuable prospect back.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 5, 2020 16:27:48 GMT -5
I view Verdugo as JBJ's replacement after Mookie is re-signed. That's the only thought that would make me feel better but frankly I don't believe they're going to re-sign Betts. I don't trust them to throw that kind of money at him and do what it takes to bring him back to Boston. I think he has already played his last game as a Red Sox. I know you don't expect it, just like you didn't expect anything good to ever happen to the Red Sox before it happened. But look at it this way. No team in the majors needs Betts more than the Red Sox, who have the money to sign him.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 5, 2020 16:28:03 GMT -5
I view Verdugo as JBJ's replacement after Mookie is re-signed. That's the only thought that would make me feel better but frankly I don't believe they're going to re-sign Betts. I don't trust them to throw that kind of money at him and do what it takes to bring him back to Boston. I think he has already played his last game as a Red Sox. I remember people floating around the idea that the Red Sox could re-sign Lester after that traded him. Theories are nice, but there was never a chance of that happening. The same is true in this instance. Mookie will be spending his prime elsewhere.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 5, 2020 16:34:28 GMT -5
With money coming off the books between now and 2023 and the tax threshold has been reset let's get a quick rundown on some of what they can now spend their money on: 2021: Mookie Betts J.T. Realmuto George Springer Daniel Murphy (mutual option) Justin Turner Marcus Semien Andrelton Simmons Jonathan Villar James Paxton Trevor Bauer 2022: Francisco Lindor Carlos Correa Corey Seager Trevor Story Javier Baez Anthony Rizzo Freddie Freeman Brandon Belt Salvador Perez Wilson Ramos Yan Gomes Michael Conforto Tommy Pham Starling Marte Kyle Schwarber Byron Buxton Aaron Nola Noah Syndergaard Clayton Kershaw Chris Archer Aroldis Chapman Kenley Jansen Brad Hand Jeurys Familia Corey Knebel Archie Bradley Raisel Iglesias Roberto Osuna Please identify which of these individuals you would give a top of market or near top of market contract to? Like Mr. Dunne, I see maybe three that I would go for, and one of those is Mookie.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Feb 5, 2020 16:37:58 GMT -5
The absolute worst trade I can remember. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb trade. They could have held onto both and maybe contended this year. They got 2 guys who may not even be significant players at all. How many guys with shoulder problems go on to great pitching careers? I would think not many statistically. They could have had a year of all star performance and got a top pick when Mookie left potentially. Even Price could have been of some value. Dumb trade. They might as well go full Florida Marlins now after this. Didn't even get full money from the Dodgers? Just awful. I'm serious. Go full Florida Marlins in epic Loria mode. But first fire the GM and get someone with a brain. May not even be significant players at all? Verdugo was a 3 WAR player in less than a full season and was a top-30 prospect and Graterol is ranked 60th by BA. I mean there's always a possibility they bust but there's also a chance they're both very good. And if you think they're bad, then you would hate whoever they draft with the 70-whatever-th pick they'd get when Mookie walks. Stop being overdramatic, Bloom isn't the one without a brain here. I haven't followed this closely but I think I read that the pitcher we got had a shoulder injury recently, after a TJ. And he's a young flame thrower. I also read that the hitter we got also played injured last year with a back injury, which appeared to hurt his OPS quite a bit. I'm sure they considered these issues and rolled the dice but they also did that with Price and with Sale and many others over the years and it's just risky to project injured players especially. And neither is proven, right? So "they may not even be significant players at all" is a valid statement. This looks like a classic Tampa Bay move but not as well reasoned. They better be sure these guys are both healthy.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 16:41:35 GMT -5
With money coming off the books between now and 2023 and the tax threshold has been reset let's get a quick rundown on some of what they can now spend their money on: 2021: Mookie Betts J.T. Realmuto George Springer Daniel Murphy (mutual option) Justin Turner Marcus Semien Andrelton Simmons Jonathan Villar James Paxton Trevor Bauer 2022: Francisco Lindor Carlos Correa Corey Seager Trevor Story Javier Baez Anthony Rizzo Freddie Freeman Brandon Belt Salvador Perez Wilson Ramos Yan Gomes Michael Conforto Tommy Pham Starling Marte Kyle Schwarber Byron Buxton Aaron Nola Noah Syndergaard Clayton Kershaw Chris Archer Aroldis Chapman Kenley Jansen Brad Hand Jeurys Familia Corey Knebel Archie Bradley Raisel Iglesias Roberto Osuna Please identify which of these individuals you would give a top of market or near top of market contract to? Like Mr. Dunne, I see maybe three that I would go for, and one of those is Mookie. Betts Baez Nola Syndergaard based on health Freeman or Rizzo on short deals
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bleedred21
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I’ve been following for years and I think it’s time to join in on the conversation.
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Post by bleedred21 on Feb 5, 2020 16:42:26 GMT -5
Gonna miss Mookie he is plain fun to watch. I’m not happy about this trade. I’m going to hold out some hope that he misses Boston and come back home next year. It may be a long shot but if he does this trade could work out nicely. These two young players also need to hit near their ceilings.
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