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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 1:05:37 GMT -5
I hope they ask for money! Geez, can the Dodgers spare a prospect considering how tapped out their farm system is?
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Feb 6, 2020 1:09:28 GMT -5
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. Major league baseball position players, on average (look it up, it is true) have their best season at the age of 28, Some a little earlier, some slightly later. That is the key point to consider about Betts. He may already have had his best season in 2018, but, if not, it probably is going to occur in the next year or two. Because he is such a great athlete and doesn't have some physical conditions, like overweight, that speed up declines, he probably will continue to have outstanding seasons for a while, but slowly not as great. Would it really make sense to sign him to a 10-year plus deal at $30M or more per year after a year in LA? I don't think so. This is the same problem as signing pitchers over the age of 29 or 30 to long term contracts. You really wind up up paying for past performance. I am a great believer that greed is a great destroyer of character and common sense. Betts could have had an incredible deal with the Sox that would have given him more money than he ever could need. He may live to regret not taking the deal. IMHO, I would not have made that offer and am happy it was not accepted. On the other hand, if the finances had permitted I would have offered $40M, maybe even more, for five years.
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 1:12:47 GMT -5
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. Major league baseball position players, on average (look it up, it is true) have their best season at the age of 28, Some a little earlier, some slightly later. That is the key point to consider about Betts. He may already have had his best season in 2018, but, if not, it probably is going to occur in the next year or two. Because he is such a great athlete and doesn't have some physical conditions, like overweight, that speed up declines, he probably will continue to have outstanding seasons for a while, but slowly not as great. Would it really make sense to sign him to a 10-year plus deal at $30M or more per year after a year in LA? I don't think so. This is the same problem as signing pitchers over the age of 29 or 30 to long term contracts. You really wind up up paying for past performance. I am a great believer that greed is a great destroyer of character and common sense. Betts could have had an incredible deal with the Sox that would have given him more money than he ever could need. He may live to regret not taking the deal. IMHO, I would not have made that offer and am happy it was not accepted. I don’t get the greed argument. How many people are willing to take less at work? If I thought I could get a raise, I’d push for it. When you add in the fact that the owners pocket the money if you aren’t getting it, why not?
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 6, 2020 1:17:09 GMT -5
If Graterol is a reliever, forget about more $.
Give me Keibert Ruiz and Minnesota’s competitive balance pick.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,694
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 1:21:25 GMT -5
Most of all I still hope biggy boi bruiser is still in the deal
Plus jeter
I’m expecting less tbh
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Post by johnsilver52 on Feb 6, 2020 1:23:38 GMT -5
Great, so they did trade Betts and Price for an outfielder and a reliever. Perfect. He better be a lights out closer and/or whatever additional piece better be significant or else they really got taken in this trade. They thought they were getting a potential top of the rotation starter and instead he's just a reliever? Awful. Makes me wish they'd just undo the trade. It's katy-bar-the-door time now, as in to damn late. Players know the deal was attempted to get done and now it's "never mind" "all is well". It don't work like that. Have to worry now about each player having it in the back of their mind if they stay put and what if the Sox continue to try and trade him? You think this offer was bad (I didn't by the way). Wait until offers come in after a nixed.. Publicly announced trade! I've never seen so much whining on this site as over this deal the last 2 days.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 1:28:03 GMT -5
I have a feeling the compensation will be far less than hoped for. So far just about everything has been pretty disappointing lately. I'd love to see Jeter Downs.
Hell, I'd have loved to see the Sox get somebody as interesting as Andy Pages who went to the Angels. I suspect they'll get the Twins compensation pick and that'll be it. Woohoo. Franchise/generational player Betts and subsidized Price - they'll probably pay Price not to pitch for them almost as much in luxury tax penalties had they just stayed over and have tried to improve their team (ok, probably not, but probably not as huge a difference as imagined). And they're getting an outfielder and a reliever.
Getting a young starter with serious upside was such a huge part of this deal for the Sox and they're not even getting that. They did that probably at the expense of getting a bigger package with lesser ceiling prospects and now they might get neither.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 1:31:23 GMT -5
Great, so they did trade Betts and Price for an outfielder and a reliever. Perfect. He better be a lights out closer and/or whatever additional piece better be significant or else they really got taken in this trade. They thought they were getting a potential top of the rotation starter and instead he's just a reliever? Awful. Makes me wish they'd just undo the trade. It's katy-bar-the-door time now, as in to damn late. Players know the deal was attempted to get done and now it's "never mind" "all is well". It don't work like that. Have to worry now about each player having it in the back of their mind if they stay put and what if the Sox continue to try and trade him? You think this offer was bad (I didn't by the way). Wait until offers come in after a nixed.. Publicly announced trade! I've never seen so much whining on this site as over this deal the last 2 days. Being angry about a deal isn't "whining". You can't tell me the Sox are cool with this deal now that they find out their key acquisition is a reliever which isn't what they were looking for. For the record I felt the return was a bit short but like I said, if Graterol was a starter, then the return wasn't too bad and that the real anger is directed at the failure to secure Betts long-term, making mistakes prior that led them to this path. Fans do have a right to be displeased and be able to voice their displeasure. You don't always have to go with the program.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 1:35:53 GMT -5
Great, so they did trade Betts and Price for an outfielder and a reliever. Perfect. He better be a lights out closer and/or whatever additional piece better be significant or else they really got taken in this trade. They thought they were getting a potential top of the rotation starter and instead he's just a reliever? Awful. Makes me wish they'd just undo the trade. It's katy-bar-the-door time now, as in to damn late. Players know the deal was attempted to get done and now it's "never mind" "all is well". It don't work like that. Have to worry now about each player having it in the back of their mind if they stay put and what if the Sox continue to try and trade him? You think this offer was bad (I didn't by the way). Wait until offers come in after a nixed.. Publicly announced trade! I've never seen so much whining on this site as over this deal the last 2 days. One other question. Why are you surprised that there's no much angst over this deal? Try thinking of another time the Sox dealt away a player of Betts' caliber away during their prime? Nomar was post-prime. I don't think anybody was attached to Adrian Gonzalez to care about his departure. Carlton Fisk was a brutal, stupid unnecessary loss although I doubt anybody thought that at age 33 he had another 13 years left in his career. Freddy Lynn was a tough loss. He's the closest in recent memory, but even he couldn't do all the things Betts could. He couldn't run like Betts nor was he as great defensively. Who else is there who was squarely in their prime and traded away? I mean this kind of thing doesn't happen every day.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,694
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 1:39:54 GMT -5
....I’d take the twins pick.......
Let’s have ourselves a g-darn draft. Build that pool up
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Post by johnsilver52 on Feb 6, 2020 2:03:38 GMT -5
It's katy-bar-the-door time now, as in to damn late. Players know the deal was attempted to get done and now it's "never mind" "all is well". It don't work like that. Have to worry now about each player having it in the back of their mind if they stay put and what if the Sox continue to try and trade him? You think this offer was bad (I didn't by the way). Wait until offers come in after a nixed.. Publicly announced trade! I've never seen so much whining on this site as over this deal the last 2 days. One other question. Why are you surprised that there's no much angst over this deal? Try thinking of another time the Sox dealt away a player of Betts' caliber away during their prime? Nomar was post-prime. I don't think anybody was attached to Adrian Gonzalez to care about his departure. Carlton Fisk was a brutal, stupid unnecessary loss although I doubt anybody thought that at age 33 he had another 13 years left in his career. Freddy Lynn was a tough loss. He's the closest in recent memory, but even he couldn't do all the things Betts could. He couldn't run like Betts nor was he as great defensively. Who else is there who was squarely in their prime and traded away? I mean this kind of thing doesn't happen every day. Lynn, Carney Lansford. Sullivan group was flat out cheap, even if had Jean Yawkey's money (somewhat) behind it. Remember Sullivan almost single handedly dismantled those powerhouse late 70's teams. burleson, Fisk, Lynn.. Gave up future perenial AS's Reggie Smith and Cecil Cooper for pretty much Rick Wise and 1 decent year of George Scott. Sullivan may have been a nice guy (yes, I knew him somewhat), but as a GM/owner he was awful Mostly am sick of the chronic complaining and not necessarily urs. Probably picked wrong post to go off on myself. As to the previous post u made.. yes, the arm issue believe does need redress Another prospect, perhaps the Twinkies comp pick. Something tho from either LA/MN.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Feb 6, 2020 2:06:47 GMT -5
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Post by bluechip on Feb 6, 2020 3:55:30 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo@ChrisCotillo Blockbuster update: Red Sox viewed Brusdar Graterol's medicals and "projected him more as a reliever than a starter," per @ken_Rosenthal . Sox might ask for additional player or money. Teams "confident the deal will be completed, but perhaps not in its original reported form." Well... if you expect to get a starter and are left with a player who can only relieve, then the trade return is not worth it, right? Of course, I expect the amended trade provides little additional compensation.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 6, 2020 5:43:57 GMT -5
You've gotta get a starter in this deal.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 6, 2020 5:57:18 GMT -5
You've gotta get a starter in this deal. Do you have any doubts that Henry will take cash out of the deal? Those Loubotons for Linda aren't free ya know.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Feb 6, 2020 6:31:37 GMT -5
Reading the scouting reports (two pitches), history of TJ and being significantly overweight, how could the Red Sox reasonably expect this guy to be anything more than a reliever? That is a red flag on their scouting department.
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Post by jdb on Feb 6, 2020 6:58:53 GMT -5
Twins have the last competitive balance pick. Seems like a nice throw in.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 6, 2020 7:16:03 GMT -5
Twins have the last competitive balance pick. Seems like a nice throw in. Ask them for Kirilloff instead of Brusdar and then flip him to the Dodgers for May. I doubt Friedman will give up any prospects in the deal and the Sox will end up with a pick or cash. Something where Henry doesn't have to pony up any money until later in the year.
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Post by geostorm on Feb 6, 2020 7:30:14 GMT -5
on an "age 28" tangent - I'm 60 yo, following the Sox since the mid 60s, and, two of my favorite Sox players of all time, Reggie Smith & Freddie Lynn, iirc, left Boston, after their respective "age 28" seasons
If Betts sees Boston as his home and if the Sox really want him then the trade was brilliant. With the Luxury Tax reset the team can spend whatever it takes to resign him. I don't think any team is going to give Betts the deal he was asking the Sox for and playing a full season for the Dodgers might even suppress his perceived value as it is not unlikely his power won't play very well in Dodger stadium. Major league baseball position players, on average (look it up, it is true) have their best season at the age of 28, Some a little earlier, some slightly later. That is the key point to consider about Betts. He may already have had his best season in 2018, but, if not, it probably is going to occur in the next year or two. Because he is such a great athlete and doesn't have some physical conditions, like overweight, that speed up declines, he probably will continue to have outstanding seasons for a while, but slowly not as great. Would it really make sense to sign him to a 10-year plus deal at $30M or more per year after a year in LA? I don't think so. This is the same problem as signing pitchers over the age of 29 or 30 to long term contracts. You really wind up up paying for past performance. I am a great believer that greed is a great destroyer of character and common sense. Betts could have had an incredible deal with the Sox that would have given him more money than he ever could need. He may live to regret not taking the deal. IMHO, I would not have made that offer and am happy it was not accepted. On the other hand, if the finances had permitted I would have offered $40M, maybe even more, for five years.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 7:48:46 GMT -5
One other question. Why are you surprised that there's no much angst over this deal? Try thinking of another time the Sox dealt away a player of Betts' caliber away during their prime? Nomar was post-prime. I don't think anybody was attached to Adrian Gonzalez to care about his departure. Carlton Fisk was a brutal, stupid unnecessary loss although I doubt anybody thought that at age 33 he had another 13 years left in his career. Freddy Lynn was a tough loss. He's the closest in recent memory, but even he couldn't do all the things Betts could. He couldn't run like Betts nor was he as great defensively. Who else is there who was squarely in their prime and traded away? I mean this kind of thing doesn't happen every day. Lynn, Carney Lansford. Sullivan group was flat out cheap, even if had Jean Yawkey's money (somewhat) behind it. Remember Sullivan almost single handedly dismantled those powerhouse late 70's teams. burleson, Fisk, Lynn.. Gave up future perenial AS's Reggie Smith and Cecil Cooper for pretty much Rick Wise and 1 decent year of George Scott. Sullivan may have been a nice guy (yes, I knew him somewhat), but as a GM/owner he was awful Mostly am sick of the chronic complaining and not necessarily urs. Probably picked wrong post to go off on myself. As to the previous post u made.. yes, the arm issue believe does need redress Another prospect, perhaps the Twinkies comp pick. Something tho from either LA/MN. The Betts trade brings back those memories unfortunately. Sullivan was brutal as a GM/owner. I don't always agree or like what John Henry might do, but man...I'll tell you this. The next owner will be hard pressed to match our current ownership's track record. 4 championships in 2 decades. Good luck to the next ownership group matching that. A lot of people don't remember how messed up it was when Yawkey owned the team or Sullivan took over or how unsteady it was when Harrington inherited it or the mess that Buddy LeRoux caused. I do wonder what would have happened had Dom DiMaggio had been allowed to purchase the team.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 6, 2020 8:19:43 GMT -5
Would it be so bad to cut the Twins out and take Maeda straight from the Dodgers instead, with a lower-tier prospect or pick to make up the difference? You don't get the system's next big pitching prospect that it seems Bloom was shooting for, but you do get a guy who can slide right into the rotation and might approximate what you would have gotten from Price at a fraction of the cost.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 6, 2020 8:26:51 GMT -5
Would it be so bad to cut the Twins out and take Maeda straight from the Dodgers instead, with a lower-tier prospect or pick to make up the difference? You don't get the system's next big pitching prospect that it seems Bloom was shooting for, but you do get a guy who can slide right into the rotation and might approximate what you would have gotten from Price at a fraction of the cost. I think Maeda makes to much money. Almost as much as they are sending with Price I think.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 6, 2020 8:28:16 GMT -5
Would it be so bad to cut the Twins out and take Maeda straight from the Dodgers instead, with a lower-tier prospect or pick to make up the difference? You don't get the system's next big pitching prospect that it seems Bloom was shooting for, but you do get a guy who can slide right into the rotation and might approximate what you would have gotten from Price at a fraction of the cost. I was just thinking the same thing. Ask for Maeda and a lottery ticket, then either flip him or trade Eduardo for a better prospect haul. I'd be pretty happy to keep Maeda - he's a good pitcher, and his low AAV might enable to them to take on someone else's bad contract to enhance a prospect package. Would it be so bad to cut the Twins out and take Maeda straight from the Dodgers instead, with a lower-tier prospect or pick to make up the difference? You don't get the system's next big pitching prospect that it seems Bloom was shooting for, but you do get a guy who can slide right into the rotation and might approximate what you would have gotten from Price at a fraction of the cost. I think Maeda makes to much money. Almost as much as they are sending with Price I think. His eight-year contract was for less guaranteed money total than Price's AAV. His incentives would basically max out at somewhere near $11.5M.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 6, 2020 8:42:29 GMT -5
Thought I read somewhere that it could be as high as 16m and a lot of it was tied to games started. And if he started 20 games (which I would think would be needed by the Red Sox) it would be over 12m. And that it was difficult to figure out until each year played out. But I could be remembering it all wrong
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Post by southernredsoxality on Feb 6, 2020 8:45:19 GMT -5
Hopefully Bloom takes this as a chance to get at least 4 or 5 players back instead of just 2, but seen as how he got bullied already, I’m not confident.
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