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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 12:53:03 GMT -5
Now... on a strictly different topic, this trade revision is fascinating... who wants it most and has to blink? And how big a concern is the medical report (meaning, how big a revision need there be)? Sox will blink. They are trying to get some leverage again but I doubt Bloom will be able to get any traction dealing with his former boss.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 7, 2020 12:54:57 GMT -5
Ok, big picture... from the start this has been about direction of the Sox. Part of that is win/loss and part is what character should the team have. There is a good argument for trading Mookie for the former reason. Taken strictly as a w/l trade, this does not please me. You get an OF who does not look close to being a replacement — even 4 years from now — for an elite player. He might be a good secondary piece in a solid lineup, but it leaves the Sox needing more. And a pitcher I simply don’t have faith in... injury history + reliever profile. Now, add in the what-kind-of-team do I wanna root for? Personally, I’d like to stick with homegrown superstars to the end, even if what you get is a compensation pick over the above package. I value that ethos. This is not to mention the stuff I’ve already been clear on. Mookie has poor character? Jeez, I like the deal, and even I wouldn't go that far. I'm not sure "ethos" wins us a whole lot of games, either.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 12:58:01 GMT -5
Ok, big picture... from the start this has been about direction of the Sox. Part of that is win/loss and part is what character should the team have. There is a good argument for trading Mookie for the former reason. Taken strictly as a w/l trade, this does not please me. You get an OF who does not look close to being a replacement — even 4 years from now — for an elite player. He might be a good secondary piece in a solid lineup, but it leaves the Sox needing more. And a pitcher I simply don’t have faith in... injury history + reliever profile. Now, add in the what-kind-of-team do I wanna root for? Personally, I’d like to stick with homegrown superstars to the end, even if what you get is a compensation pick over the above package. I value that ethos. This is not to mention the stuff I’ve already been clear on. Mookie has poor character? Jeez, I like the deal, and even I wouldn't go that far. I'm not sure "ethos" wins us a whole lot of games, either. It doesn’t, they are an unlikable team when they lose and they’re a likable team when they win. That’s basically how it goes with radio hacks and moron fans. Good example is 2017 (unlikable) to 2018 (likeable with mostly the same damn team lol) Fans are dumb Anyway, the reports that we are possibly looking into roping another team in or just working with the dodgers just in case the twins fail is interesting
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Post by johnsilver52 on Feb 7, 2020 13:04:07 GMT -5
Mods can we please move this topic to a different thread? I don’t come here to read this crap. To the gas pipe if anything else. It's devolved into mud slinging if anything else. Norm, Chris, James.. Someone please dump all these garbage posts (mine also) somewhere so we can just read relevant posts instead on all this nonsense.. PLEASE.
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Post by soxfanatic on Feb 7, 2020 13:05:18 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 7, 2020 13:07:48 GMT -5
Good luck to the Red Sox on this. I don't think they're going to get what they want. They're going to wind up settling for less than they're seeking.
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Post by manfred on Feb 7, 2020 13:15:14 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 13:15:57 GMT -5
Good luck to the Red Sox on this. I don't think they're going to get what they want. They're going to wind up settling for less than they're seeking. Or they just blow up the trade and look at another 3rd team or solely the dodgers The Sox are in the drivers seat here. It literally does not matter to them what happens with this trade, they can find a suitor for mookie and price is probably happy they tried to trade him. Can’t say the same for any of the other guys involved in BOTH deals aside from Joc who is in a contract year
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Post by beasleyrockah on Feb 7, 2020 13:17:21 GMT -5
I don't know how the Red Sox can argue "we still want the player (Graterol), but we now think he's worth so much less that *insert significant piece(s) here* has to be included too.
You either want Graterol or you don't, and maybe medicals can get them to add some very minor consideration to the deal, but the only way you can get a different significant piece is reworking the deal without Graterol. I haven't seen any report claim the Red Sox no longer want Graterol, they just seem to want something significant with him, and that feels very unlikely.
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Post by julyanmorley on Feb 7, 2020 13:18:39 GMT -5
Heyman's stuff sounds like it's coming from the Twins, framed to make the Red Sox sound unreasonable. The Red Sox could have given the Twins a list of 6 guys, one of which is ranked 10th in some places, and Jon Heyman wouldn't be lying.
There's probably not great feelings between these two front offices right now.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 13:19:02 GMT -5
I don't know how the Red Sox can argue "we still want the player (Graterol), but we now think he's worth so much less that *insert significant piece(s) here* has to be included too. You either want Graterol or you don't, and maybe medicals can get them to add some very minor consideration to the deal, but the only way you can get a different significant piece is reworking the deal without Graterol. I haven't seen any report claim the Red Sox no longer want Graterol, they just seem to want something significant with him, and that feels very unlikely. I mean you can still want him for a different less valuable role There’s a clear value difference between front-mid rotation guy and late innings guy.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 7, 2020 13:22:48 GMT -5
Thorpe or Dobnak would be nice, but we’d probably have to send something Minnesota’s way
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Post by manfred on Feb 7, 2020 13:24:49 GMT -5
Say the Sox do this:
Send Sale to MN. Get Graterol, one other top-10 guy. Send Mookie and Price to LA, who also keep Maeta.
Get one more top-10 guy from LA (offer more money for Price if necessary, since you’ve saved with trading Sale).
Now you have potentially added 4 guys to your top 5 prospects, dumped tons of salary, and traded two pitchers who won’t be around for the renaissance anyway.
And you look to get a high pick next year.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 13:27:16 GMT -5
Updated to reflect the current situation. Figured this was appropriate for everyone who feels the Sox are in the Driver's seat
Friedman: Twins, Leave us. Bloom: No, stay here! I'm in charge. (Friedman places a heavy hand on Bloom's shoulder) Friedman: Do you feel in charge? Bloom: (slowly realizing just how screwed he actually is) ...I've paid you a small fortune. I gave you Mookie Friedman: (disapprovingly) And this gives you power over me? Bloom: What are you? Friedman: I'm Boston's reckoning. The trade shall stand.
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Post by jdb on Feb 7, 2020 13:30:32 GMT -5
Ask for the moon and probably end up with their comp pick.
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Post by Gwell55 on Feb 7, 2020 13:34:39 GMT -5
Updated to reflect the current situation. Figured this was appropriate for everyone who feels the Sox are in the Driver's seat Friedman: Twins, Leave us. Bloom: No, stay here! I'm in charge. (Friedman places a heavy hand on Bloom's shoulder) Friedman: Do you feel in charge? Bloom: (slowly realizing just how screwed he actually is) ...I've paid you a small fortune. I gave you Mookie Friedman: (disapprovingly) And this gives you power over me? Bloom: What are you? Friedman: I'm Boston's reckoning. Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on. Seems like you forgot to add This one to the deal: Bloom: Your in LA aren't you where you just tried to add Mookie to save your GM job and the fans felt good ... however sure seems to me like 1988 is a long way back without a WS title to your credit and it's about to get old for those same fans out there.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 13:37:30 GMT -5
Updated to reflect the current situation. Figured this was appropriate for everyone who feels the Sox are in the Driver's seat Friedman: Twins, Leave us. Bloom: No, stay here! I'm in charge. (Friedman places a heavy hand on Bloom's shoulder) Friedman: Do you feel in charge? Bloom: (slowly realizing just how screwed he actually is) ...I've paid you a small fortune. I gave you Mookie Friedman: (disapprovingly) And this gives you power over me? Bloom: What are you? Friedman: I'm Boston's reckoning. Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on. Seems like you forgot to add This one to the deal: Bloom: Your in LA aren't you where you just tried to add Mookie to save your GM job and the fans felt good ... however sure seems to me like 1988 is a long way back without a WS title to your credit and it's about to get old for those same fans out there. Nah doesn't go with the whole Bane feel. I was going to include a line about David Price's new Frenchie mauling Chaim Bloom. But that could be for version 2.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 7, 2020 13:57:56 GMT -5
I continue to believe we have the leverage here until proven otherwise. Bloom needs to play hardball and extract as much is possible this time around.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 7, 2020 14:10:56 GMT -5
As its a reasonable question whether or not we keep our first round draft pick, Im not sure we absolutely have to get under the luxury tax right now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2020 14:22:03 GMT -5
It made sense if you were trading Betts to do if before the deadline. You likely get more. The Verdugo, Downs, Ferguson package backed that notion up. That is a hard deal to top at the deadline. Verdugo and a future reliever with health issues isn't that type of offer. I really like Verdugo, but I can see teams topping that during the season.
Henry you look like a fool, blow it up and say screw resetting. Regain the power and then see what happens. This is crazy, if you don't have power trading a player like Betts there is something crazy wrong. This is like playing The Show and the trade is so bad it keeps getting rejected, yet you keep trying to make it work.
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Post by kman22 on Feb 7, 2020 14:42:06 GMT -5
As its a reasonable question whether or not we keep our first round draft pick, Im not sure we absolutely have to get under the luxury tax right now. It's not this year that is the worry. If I'm not mistaken, the penalties for going over increase with each consecutive year. By resetting this year, they get that freedom back for next several years (unless the rules change).
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 7, 2020 14:50:42 GMT -5
As its a reasonable question whether or not we keep our first round draft pick, Im not sure we absolutely have to get under the luxury tax right now. It's not this year that is the worry. If I'm not mistaken, the penalties for going over increase with each consecutive year. By resetting this year, they get that freedom back for next several years (unless the rules change). I'm saying the MLB might strip us of a pick. Given what the Astros were punished, I don't have a lot of confidence that we'll get an appropriate punishment. What is the point of getting under the luxury tax if we're going to lose the pick anyway, other than saving money.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 7, 2020 15:06:27 GMT -5
So next year you can go back over the tax at 20% and not lose a pick
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Post by taftreign on Feb 7, 2020 15:08:08 GMT -5
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 7, 2020 15:15:52 GMT -5
Hoping Red Sox get a quality piece back from either Twins or Dodgers. Or just return Grateral and obtain Kiriloff instead with the Dodgers kicking a prospect back to the Twins. Although personally I like Larnach. Will Woodward posted about Urbina. He's a quality high end international prospect who is "tooled" up.
Where this went wrong was needing a starting pitcher back in the deal. Given it's Mookie Betts...it's to bad they didn't deal for a couple quality hitters. It would have given us the best chance to spin our "return on investment" was quality.
I've always been of the belief (and Tigers/Braves will test this theory) that you build through hitters in your minors when rebuilding a system. Then when the time is right, you use your financial might and push in on an established starter (Cole, Verlander, Sale, etc). Young pitchers just flame out to much, but as I said...Tigers and Braves will test this theory for sure.
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