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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2020 15:20:21 GMT -5
This years pick doesn't have anything to do with spending this years. Last year's spending did. You also don't lose a pick, it gets pushed back 10 spots if you going 40 million over the tax line. Why are we debating this? We aren't 40 million over. Even if we don't make a trade our picks don't come into play unless they spend more money.
This was always about money, not picks. Heck the pick being moved back saves Henry money.
The tax rates are 20, 30, and 50% in there basic form. Resetting doesn't save you a ton, the year you reset by not spending I'd where you save the most money. Oh no our 16 million tax bill will jump to like 20 million we have to reset ASAP! The biggest savings is chopping the 40 million in payroll, not the tax money.
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
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Post by shagworthy on Feb 7, 2020 15:28:13 GMT -5
Since the details were formally announced I felt that this deal was very lite. Especially given some of the names tossed around in previous reports before the actual trade. David Price at 15 million is not a negative asset, and 1 year of Mookie Betts is still adding 1 year (with the potential for more if you can meet his demands salary wise in FA) of the consensus 2nd best player in baseball to your lineup.
I think Bloom needs to hit the escape button on this deal, with clear eyes on Graterol's physical. Will it be tough to invite Price and Betts into the clubhouse to start spring training, sure, but you can't get fleeced on a deal where you are trading away your best home grown talent offensively since Nomar, and a pretty good might I add veteran starter. I think doing that would force Friedman's hand because he will get murdered in LA after all the hype of now having Mookie alongside Bellinger only to see that slip away. That doesn't mean Betts, or Price stay here long term, I still think the decision to trade him before he hits FA with no guarantee of an extension is sound, but you don't give the cash cow away for a bale of hay.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 7, 2020 15:33:56 GMT -5
This years pick doesn't have anything to do with spending this years. Last year's spending did. You also don't lose a pick, it gets pushed back 10 spots if you going 40 million over the tax line. Why are we debating this? We aren't 40 million over. Even if we don't make a trade our picks don't come into play unless they spend more money. This was always about money, not picks. Heck the pick being moved back saves Henry money. The tax rates are 20, 30, and 50% in there basic form. Resetting doesn't save you a ton, the year you reset by not spending I'd where you save the most money. Oh no our 16 million tax bill will jump to like 20 million we have to reset ASAP! The biggest savings is chopping the 40 million in payroll, not the tax money. Clearly the tax matters because both the Yankees and Dodgers deliberately cut payroll to reset the tax rate to just go over it again the following season. All the highest payroll teams are all doing the same thing
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,685
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 16:00:20 GMT -5
Since the details were formally announced I felt that this deal was very lite. Especially given some of the names tossed around in previous reports before the actual trade. David Price at 15 million is not a negative asset, and 1 year of Mookie Betts is still adding 1 year (with the potential for more if you can meet his demands salary wise in FA) of the consensus 2nd best player in baseball to your lineup. I think Bloom needs to hit the escape button on this deal, with clear eyes on Graterol's physical. Will it be tough to invite Price and Betts into the clubhouse to start spring training, sure, but you can't get fleeced on a deal where you are trading away your best home grown talent offensively since Nomar, and a pretty good might I add veteran starter. I think doing that would force Friedman's hand because he will get murdered in LA after all the hype of now having Mookie alongside Bellinger only to see that slip away. That doesn't mean Betts, or Price stay here long term, I still think the decision to trade him before he hits FA with no guarantee of an extension is sound, but you don't give the cash cow away for a bale of hay. 15 mill for David price this coming year Has the potential to work out but I highly doubt it works out for the entire deal. He’s in that rare 2000 innings club, we’ve seen him battle injury for a lot of his time here, and I do not see that situation getting better with age and further wear and tear. Could be wrong. “Special” elbow after all!
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Post by kman22 on Feb 7, 2020 16:14:16 GMT -5
Haven't figured out how to embed a tweet, but Heyman tweeted that Arte Moreno is really upset that the Pederson/Stripling deal has been held up, unclear who he's mad at.
I mean, get in line. We've got 36 pages of this trade and it hasn't happened yet.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 16:16:50 GMT -5
Haven't figured out how to embed a tweet, but Heyman tweeted that Arte Moreno is really upset that the Pederson/Stripling deal has been held up, unclear who he's mad at. I mean, get in line. We've got 36 pages of this trade and it hasn't happened yet. He's probably mad at everyone. Dodgers should just bite the bullet and send over a prospect. They won't. But they should.
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Post by nonothing on Feb 7, 2020 16:22:08 GMT -5
If they didn’t agree that it was contingent on the Betts deal, that deal should be forced through. If it was contingent, he can basically pound sand and whine.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 7, 2020 16:35:02 GMT -5
I mean, we'll take Adell if you really want to speed things along, Arte.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
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Post by shagworthy on Feb 7, 2020 16:38:37 GMT -5
Since the details were formally announced I felt that this deal was very lite. Especially given some of the names tossed around in previous reports before the actual trade. David Price at 15 million is not a negative asset, and 1 year of Mookie Betts is still adding 1 year (with the potential for more if you can meet his demands salary wise in FA) of the consensus 2nd best player in baseball to your lineup. I think Bloom needs to hit the escape button on this deal, with clear eyes on Graterol's physical. Will it be tough to invite Price and Betts into the clubhouse to start spring training, sure, but you can't get fleeced on a deal where you are trading away your best home grown talent offensively since Nomar, and a pretty good might I add veteran starter. I think doing that would force Friedman's hand because he will get murdered in LA after all the hype of now having Mookie alongside Bellinger only to see that slip away. That doesn't mean Betts, or Price stay here long term, I still think the decision to trade him before he hits FA with no guarantee of an extension is sound, but you don't give the cash cow away for a bale of hay. 15 mill for David price this coming year Has the potential to work out but I highly doubt it works out for the entire deal. He’s in that rare 2000 innings club, we’ve seen him battle injury for a lot of his time here, and I do not see that situation getting better with age and further wear and tear. Could be wrong. “Special” elbow after all! See, now I see a different Price, out of Fenway, and no longer with the expectations attached to his contract in Boston, if managed correctly, he could definitely be a very positive force for that club, especially since they have Buhler and May as the young stud, next torch bearers. Just getting out of Fenway park for half of his starts is going to be a net positive on his numbers if he can remain semi-healthy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2020 16:55:09 GMT -5
This years pick doesn't have anything to do with spending this years. Last year's spending did. You also don't lose a pick, it gets pushed back 10 spots if you going 40 million over the tax line. Why are we debating this? We aren't 40 million over. Even if we don't make a trade our picks don't come into play unless they spend more money. This was always about money, not picks. Heck the pick being moved back saves Henry money. The tax rates are 20, 30, and 50% in there basic form. Resetting doesn't save you a ton, the year you reset by not spending I'd where you save the most money. Oh no our 16 million tax bill will jump to like 20 million we have to reset ASAP! The biggest savings is chopping the 40 million in payroll, not the tax money. Clearly the tax matters because both the Yankees and Dodgers deliberately cut payroll to reset the tax rate to just go over it again the following season. All the highest payroll teams are all doing the same thing When did the Dodgers do that? They have been under for years now and the Yankees reset once in 17 years Sure it matters, it's money I spelled out the basics for you. Our owner said I'll pay 20%, 30%, but I have to reset because I can't pay 50% on a payroll around 30 million over the tax line. At the same time revenues are exploding. It's not like the NBA system when repeaters pay a huge difference and a lot higher rate to begin with. Yet you don't see contenders trading stars so they don't have to pay! I'm not even against resetting. Yet you don't take less on a Betts trade just so you can reset. It's actually the opposite, if you need to stay over and eat money to get a better return you should do just that. We have tons of money, we don't have tons of prospects.
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Post by soxfanatic on Feb 7, 2020 17:01:08 GMT -5
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
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Post by shagworthy on Feb 7, 2020 17:04:42 GMT -5
A tweet from the worst player representative in history. He's 100% responsible for why the offseason has become a nightmare. He only cares about the players who make money, the young kids and the minor league guys aren't even worth his time.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,685
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 17:07:43 GMT -5
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 7, 2020 17:20:24 GMT -5
"I know you don't want to give up Downs, but you don't understand - Tony Clark is pissed."
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 7, 2020 17:21:04 GMT -5
The statements by Mookie Betts, that he owes it to others to be paid the most of any player ever, have to stop. It has unfairly put the Red Sox GM's job and the team's connections to the fans in limbo, requiring many players to now be displaced. It serves as a reminder that too often teams are treated as ATM machines by those supplying the talent.
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Post by caseytins on Feb 7, 2020 17:22:45 GMT -5
Regardless of what happens, Bloom was put in an awful situation by the owners, and the previous GM. I mean seriously, with Dombrowski, it's all about the atrophy of the butterfly.. Get me?
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Post by manfred on Feb 7, 2020 17:26:14 GMT -5
The statements by Mookie Betts, that he owes it to others to be paid the most of any player ever, have to stop. It has unfairly put the Red Sox GM's job and the team's connections to the fans in limbo, requiring many players to now be displaced. It serves as a reminder that too often teams are treated as ATM machines by those supplying the talent. Whatever might be said about these negotiations, I’m all for players getting as much of the revenue as they can. I am never going to feel sorry for owners or management against the labor that actually produces the value they are squabbling over.
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Post by caseytins on Feb 7, 2020 17:33:25 GMT -5
Personally, I love Brusdar's arm and still want him in the trade. There are lots of permutations right now and that is neither good or bad. At least we have a GM that will play this out correctly, in my opinion. Look at the physical, access, and then play it to your advantage. Dombrowski would have already accepted the deal, similar to when the Padres screwed him over with Pomeranz..
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
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Post by shagworthy on Feb 7, 2020 17:42:38 GMT -5
The statements by Mookie Betts, that he owes it to others to be paid the most of any player ever, have to stop. It has unfairly put the Red Sox GM's job and the team's connections to the fans in limbo, requiring many players to now be displaced. It serves as a reminder that too often teams are treated as ATM machines by those supplying the talent. Whatever might be said about these negotiations, I’m all for players getting as much of the revenue as they can. I am never going to feel sorry for owners or management against the labor that actually produces the value they are squabbling over. I agree, only slightly. I don't feel bad for the players, or the owners. I'm all for the players maximizing their value, and I'm equally ok with the owners or business setting the top value they are willing to pay for an individual. I will say however that the Players Association is a sham. They don't care about the players, they care about maximizing the wealth of chosen veterans at the expense of the younger talent. It's unfortunate that the teams have caught up to the fact that paying veterans for past performance and now Tony Clark's main constituents are now feeling the pinch of a market correction. Whether or not they want to agree, baseball players are commodities, often times well rewarded commodities in comparison to the non-athletic world. I can't feel bad for a guy making 10m a year anymore than I can feel bad for an organization worth 6.6 billion dollars. The media is constantly used as a tool to play the public against one or the other, and I just won't partake. For most of the rest of the "real world" adulthood is when you realize you are worth more dead to your love ones than alive(Via Insurance). These few talented guys don't ever have to come to that realization.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 7, 2020 17:49:00 GMT -5
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 7, 2020 17:56:48 GMT -5
Yeah, like duh. They are commodities. They are human beings also, but he's trying to but his way into something that doesn't concern the players union. Teams are just following protocol and doing what's best for their organization.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 7, 2020 18:01:00 GMT -5
All sorts of people who can't tell Chaim Bloom what to do have an opinion, all of the sudden.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,685
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 18:06:56 GMT -5
Don’t understand why he cares so much about the leaked medicals
A) everybody would know what’s up by now anyway
B) it doesn’t really impact graterol or his earning potential seeing as how he would take a physical before any transaction involving him anyway
No “great medical concern” is kind of hilarious considering we are talking about a 21 year old pitcher who has already had TJ and shoulder issues
I love Graterol as a prospect andI’m happy he is in the deal but give me a break with that nonsense. That’s the only reason he’s IN the deal
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Post by aboynamedkimandrew on Feb 7, 2020 18:11:12 GMT -5
Clearly the tax matters because both the Yankees and Dodgers deliberately cut payroll to reset the tax rate to just go over it again the following season. All the highest payroll teams are all doing the same thing When did the Dodgers do that? They have been under for years now and the Yankees reset once in 17 years Sure it matters, it's money I spelled out the basics for you. Our owner said I'll pay 20%, 30%, but I have to reset because I can't pay 50% on a payroll around 30 million over the tax line. At the same time revenues are exploding. It's not like the NBA system when repeaters pay a huge difference and a lot higher rate to begin with. Yet you don't see contenders trading stars so they don't have to pay! I'm not even against resetting. Yet you don't take less on a Betts trade just so you can reset. It's actually the opposite, if you need to stay over and eat money to get a better return you should do just that. We have tons of money, we don't have tons of prospects. That's true since under for 2 years is "under for years now." The Dodgers traded expiring 2018 contracts for Adrian Gonzalez and Scott Kazmir to the Braves in order to get under the threshold. Gonzalez and Kazmir were then cut. In exchange the Dodgers took on Matt Kemp. IIRC correctly the money lined up but Gonzalez and Kemp were going to make it all in 2018 while Kemp's was spread out over 2018 and 2019. As a result the Dodgers saved more than $20M in 2018, which is what they needed to do to reset the counter. It was an obvious attempt to get around the tax and it worked. Prior to 2018 the Dodgers had the majors highest payroll for several years - and by a big margin.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Feb 7, 2020 18:16:08 GMT -5
Are some of the involved players complaining that they were notified of the trade and then put on hold and therefore are in "limbo"? Or else, how are they in limbo if they weren't officially notified? I thought it was all basically "sources" leaking info as usual and no different then the leaks that Heyman and the others report on regarding all of the possible free agent signing and offseason trades. Nothing is official until the players have been notified and the club releases a statement. Fans are in limbo all offseason.
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