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Post by jimed14 on Feb 7, 2020 18:21:24 GMT -5
The statements by Mookie Betts, that he owes it to others to be paid the most of any player ever, have to stop. It has unfairly put the Red Sox GM's job and the team's connections to the fans in limbo, requiring many players to now be displaced. It serves as a reminder that too often teams are treated as ATM machines by those supplying the talent. Whatever might be said about these negotiations, I’m all for players getting as much of the revenue as they can. I am never going to feel sorry for owners or management against the labor that actually produces the value they are squabbling over. I'm all for the younger and lesser players getting a lot more revenue. I'm not all for Mookie getting $60M a year instead of $35M, because that doesn't take money from the owners. It takes money away from the cheaper players.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 18:29:52 GMT -5
Don’t understand why he cares so much about the leaked medicals A) everybody would know what’s up by now anyway B) it doesn’t really impact graterol or his earning potential seeing as how he would take a physical before any transaction involving him anyway No “great medical concern” is kind of hilarious considering we are talking about a 21 year old pitcher who has already had TJ and shoulder issues I love Graterol as a prospect andI’m happy he is in the deal but give me a break with that nonsense. That’s the only reason he’s IN the deal Boras is just carrying the water for his client. Bloom will cave. If for no other reason his job probably depends on it. But as for Graterol he should get a crack to close in training camp. The Sox are going nowhere so its time to bridge to the future. Lets see what they can get for Workman and Barnes next.
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Post by kevfc89 on Feb 7, 2020 18:40:46 GMT -5
ahh, i see is Boras trying to screw the Sox here
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Post by p23w on Feb 7, 2020 18:49:10 GMT -5
I've seen enough film clips now of Graterol's mechanics (warming up, without men on base and with runners on base) to have significant concerns about his future ability to stay away from the DL. Love the "arm" really don't care for his mechanics. A conundrum for all concerned. So far this has evolved into a lose lose situation for the players, agents and management and "yawn" for the owners, who will make this happen. Makes my annual sojourn to ST much less inviting. fortunately I have other interests (motorsports) available during February and March.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 18:50:09 GMT -5
Don’t understand why he cares so much about the leaked medicals A) everybody would know what’s up by now anyway B) it doesn’t really impact graterol or his earning potential seeing as how he would take a physical before any transaction involving him anyway No “great medical concern” is kind of hilarious considering we are talking about a 21 year old pitcher who has already had TJ and shoulder issues I love Graterol as a prospect andI’m happy he is in the deal but give me a break with that nonsense. That’s the only reason he’s IN the deal Boras is just carrying the water for his client. Bloom will cave. If for no other reason his job probably depends on it. But as for Graterol he should get a crack to close in training camp. The Sox are going nowhere so its time to bridge to the future. Lets see what they can get for Workman and Barnes next. Yeah you’re right his job totally depends on it about 2.5 months in Ridiculous
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Post by manfred on Feb 7, 2020 18:53:18 GMT -5
Whatever might be said about these negotiations, I’m all for players getting as much of the revenue as they can. I am never going to feel sorry for owners or management against the labor that actually produces the value they are squabbling over. I'm all for the younger and lesser players getting a lot more revenue. I'm not all for Mookie getting $60M a year instead of $35M, because that doesn't take money from the owners. It takes money away from the cheaper players. Ok, that is fair. I do mean on a more collective level.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 19:10:54 GMT -5
Boras is just carrying the water for his client. Bloom will cave. If for no other reason his job probably depends on it. But as for Graterol he should get a crack to close in training camp. The Sox are going nowhere so its time to bridge to the future. Lets see what they can get for Workman and Barnes next. Yeah you’re right his job totally depends on it about 2.5 months in Ridiculous I would imagine a mandate of getting under 208 and failing to complete a deal that would successfully complete that mandate would put anyone on the hot seat. Doesn't matter if he's been working there 2.5 months or 2.5 years if your boss tells you to do something and you cant get it done then you're not in a good spot. Do I think he would get fired tomorrow? No. But I wouldn't put it past this ownership group to find a reason to let him go at the end of the season if he can't reset the tax.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 7, 2020 19:12:59 GMT -5
I would imagine . . . . . unicorns and fairies and neither you nor I have any idea what his conversations with John Henry et al have been.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 7, 2020 19:19:13 GMT -5
I would imagine . . . . . unicorns and fairies and neither you nor I have any idea what his conversations with John Henry et al have been. Agreed. But if your boss tells you to do something and you fail to complete the task then what happens? Its not exactly speculation here. They called a press conference right after the season to pretty much hand this mandate down.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 19:22:32 GMT -5
I would imagine . . . . . unicorns and fairies and neither you nor I have any idea what his conversations with John Henry et al have been. Agreed. But if your boss tells you to do something and you fail to complete the task then what happens? Its not exactly speculation here. They called a press conference right after the season to pretty much hand this mandate down. The chances of bloom being fired are about the same odds of me being the #4 starter this year
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Post by manfred on Feb 7, 2020 19:23:30 GMT -5
Agreed. But if your boss tells you to do something and you fail to complete the task then what happens? Its not exactly speculation here. They called a press conference right after the season to pretty much hand this mandate down. The chances of bloom being fired are about the same odds of me being the #4 starter this year Can you hit 85?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 19:27:05 GMT -5
The chances of bloom being fired are about the same odds of me being the #4 starter this year Can you hit 85? Topped out at 81 and have gone through a casual bout of transverse myelitis since then- can probably get 64, 65 these days. Maybe can sneak into that 5 slot
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Post by southernredsoxality on Feb 7, 2020 19:38:07 GMT -5
So I’m guessing Gammons made up that whole Verdugo/Downs/Ferguson/lotto ticket for Mookie rumor, because if that was ever offered we probably wouldn’t be in this predicament.
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Post by lennsakata on Feb 7, 2020 19:47:35 GMT -5
So I’m guessing Gammons made up that whole Verdugo/Downs/Ferguson/lotto ticket for Mookie rumor, because if that was ever offered we probably wouldn’t be in this predicament. It was a consensus guess from three NL executives...he never claimed it was offered
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Post by southernredsoxality on Feb 7, 2020 19:55:01 GMT -5
So I’m guessing Gammons made up that whole Verdugo/Downs/Ferguson/lotto ticket for Mookie rumor, because if that was ever offered we probably wouldn’t be in this predicament. It was a consensus guess from three NL executives...he never claimed it was offered Yep, I stand corrected, the consensus was far off though.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Feb 7, 2020 20:07:12 GMT -5
Problem solved, elminate the twins, send Gray and Downs. Done deal.
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Post by caseytins on Feb 7, 2020 20:21:15 GMT -5
Problem solved, elminate the twins, send Gray and Downs. Done deal. That's clearly not going to happen. I still think that the Twins are in play. Again, I can see them sending us Graterol and Dobnak. I can also see them sending over Graterol and the comp pick. There are several other scenarios, but there is a man crush on Brusdar, and in many ways, I understand it..
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 7, 2020 20:29:06 GMT -5
Hate to say it, but I'm with Boras on this one.
1. This makes fans think he's damaged goods, even if he isn't 2. This will lead to any future transactions having extra medical questions/precautions (even if only to appease fans and owners) 3. Graterol will face a litany of questions about whether he is injured, by the media, once pitchers report 4. Most importantly this ingratiates Boras to his client that he 'has his back' which I'm sure is why he made the statement.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 20:34:14 GMT -5
Hate to say it, but I'm with Boras on this one. 1. This makes fans think he's damaged goods, even if he isn't 2. This will lead to any future transactions having extra medical questions/precautions (even if only to appease fans and owners) 3. Graterol will face a litany of questions about whether he is injured, by the media, once pitchers report 4. Most importantly this ingratiates Boras to his client that he 'has his back' which I'm sure is why he made the statement. Agreed with #4 1/2/3 was going to happen anyway due to the arm issues he’s already had at such a young age I mean, hell, you saw how half the fans reacted when they saw Graterol had TJ surgery in this thread. And that was before the team got his Medicals #2 was going to happen no matter what for the reasons outlined I don’t think #3 is really an issue. There’s not much to ask.
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Post by nonothing on Feb 7, 2020 20:35:48 GMT -5
Clearly the tax matters because both the Yankees and Dodgers deliberately cut payroll to reset the tax rate to just go over it again the following season. All the highest payroll teams are all doing the same thing When did the Dodgers do that? They have been under for years now and the Yankees reset once in 17 years Sure it matters, it's money I spelled out the basics for you. Our owner said I'll pay 20%, 30%, but I have to reset because I can't pay 50% on a payroll around 30 million over the tax line. At the same time revenues are exploding. It's not like the NBA system when repeaters pay a huge difference and a lot higher rate to begin with. Yet you don't see contenders trading stars so they don't have to pay! I'm not even against resetting. Yet you don't take less on a Betts trade just so you can reset. It's actually the opposite, if you need to stay over and eat money to get a better return you should do just that. We have tons of money, we don't have tons of prospects. It isn’t the tax amount you are talking about that is the problem. It is the contracts you have to sign new players to once you are there and paying 50% over. You talk about it as if you are paying $12MM on say $232MM. That doesn’t sound so bad. But if you want to sign a major free agent or take on a big contract once you are there, you are faced with adding a $30MM guy for $45MM per year for that guy. The incremental signings and spending don’t fit normal player valuations. So if you are trying hard for a championship in a given year, maybe you do that. But you would be incredibly stupid to leave yourself for long in a position where every player you acquire, or any added salary your players achieve through arbitration comes on at 50% over market. That is why teams don’t stay up there. Say you are willing to go up to $12MM on the reliever you think will make the difference for you in the playoffs — that will cost you $18MM per year. It just doesn’t make sense to stay up there. They have created a system where not all dollars are created equal. And that is hurting the players by taking teams out of the market in certain years on top of the other teams staying out of the market to purposely tank. Both those things are bad for competition and for total player compensation. But in this system, it also pays to eat money on bad contracts when you are under the cap to buy a farm system.
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Post by nonothing on Feb 7, 2020 20:44:09 GMT -5
Whatever might be said about these negotiations, I’m all for players getting as much of the revenue as they can. I am never going to feel sorry for owners or management against the labor that actually produces the value they are squabbling over. I'm all for the younger and lesser players getting a lot more revenue. I'm not all for Mookie getting $60M a year instead of $35M, because that doesn't take money from the owners. It takes money away from the cheaper players. If I could “like” this post x100 I would. This is the truth. The middle class of baseball has been gutted so that the top guys can make huge amounts of money. Then teams cut the middle class vets to afford the stars and rely on the nearly free kids to offset the mega-deals.
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Post by nonothing on Feb 7, 2020 20:46:01 GMT -5
I've seen enough film clips now of Graterol's mechanics (warming up, without men on base and with runners on base) to have significant concerns about his future ability to stay away from the DL. Love the "arm" really don't care for his mechanics. A conundrum for all concerned. So far this has evolved into a lose lose situation for the players, agents and management and "yawn" for the owners, who will make this happen. Makes my annual sojourn to ST much less inviting. fortunately I have other interests (motorsports) available during February and March. The mechanics are what make me wonder why they were willing to take him in the first place, even though he has an 80 fastball and throws some unhittable stuff. It doesn’t take a lot of clips or super sophisticated pitching knowledge to see a problem there. He looks like an injury waiting to happen.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 7, 2020 21:15:10 GMT -5
Oh good, spent the day away and I was afraid this might be a done deal when I got back home. It's still not too late guys, let's not trade Mookie.
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Post by bnich on Feb 7, 2020 21:24:28 GMT -5
Can we get some kind of resolution already?! I can't keep refreshing twitter. Jared Carrabis is losing his shit about the Astros.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 7, 2020 21:41:26 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom right now, probably:
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