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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 7, 2020 21:55:22 GMT -5
I'm unfortunately too busy from now till the end of the month to hang out here much. So just two observations.
First, apologies to jimoh, who was much closer to the deal that actually went down than I was. Like most of the rest of us, I put too much stock in media speculation, and got swept up in the idea that the Mookie trade was going to a steal rather than a solid one. I have to remind myself that I liked Mookie for Verdugo even up when the whole thing started!
Now, the Graterol situation (with apologies for possible redundant points). As I read the deal, we asked for him because we felt he had top-of-the-rotation potential. And it's hard to make up for that by adding another player from the Twins who also has less of an upside.
Do we like Gray enough as a replacement? BA had Graterol as #60 and none of their staffers had Gray in their top 150, and that's a big gap (even though MLB had Gray higher than Graterol). In which case, we might take Gray and a smaller piece, the Dodgers keep Graterol and they get something more from the Twins to offset the medical surprise. I think the Dodgers might have more interest in a potential closer than we do (hello, Darwinzon!)
The other possibilities are crazier. Maybe the Dodgers back out of the Maeda deal altogether and trade him for someone else we like as much as Graterol (we may have given them a list of two or three names). Or they adjust the Graterol trade on the own and make a new trade for someone we want. That Graterol might be replaced in the trade has been speculated online.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 7, 2020 22:57:23 GMT -5
Twins beat writer...
To sum up...
The Twins aren't willing to add another significant prospect to Graterol.
The Twins aren't willing to substitute a starting pitcher with similar value in Balazovic.
If I'm the Red Sox, I feel like I have to get a starting pitcher out of this deal who's at least somewhat close the majors, and I wouldn't be willing to take a pupu platter of lesser prospects from either LA or Minnesota.
How, exactly, does this get worked out?
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Post by redsox3in10 on Feb 7, 2020 23:24:42 GMT -5
Twins beat writer... To sum up... The Twins aren't willing to add another significant prospect to Graterol. The Twins aren't willing to substitute a starting pitcher with similar value in Balazovic. If I'm the Red Sox, I feel like I have to get a starting pitcher out of this deal who's at least somewhat close the majors, and I wouldn't be willing to take a pupu platter of lesser prospects from either LA or Minnesota. How, exactly, does this get worked out? If Minny won't give any on this at some point, I genuinely think you say sorry and move on. I don't think we'll do that for some reason, but that's what you would do in any other reasonable situation.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 7, 2020 23:31:29 GMT -5
Twins beat writer... To sum up... The Twins aren't willing to add another significant prospect to Graterol. The Twins aren't willing to substitute a starting pitcher with similar value in Balazovic. If I'm the Red Sox, I feel like I have to get a starting pitcher out of this deal who's at least somewhat close the majors, and I wouldn't be willing to take a pupu platter of lesser prospects from either LA or Minnesota. How, exactly, does this get worked out?Simple. Back of the of the dumbest trade in franchise history since Babe Ruth.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 7, 2020 23:42:43 GMT -5
Twins beat writer... To sum up... The Twins aren't willing to add another significant prospect to Graterol. The Twins aren't willing to substitute a starting pitcher with similar value in Balazovic. If I'm the Red Sox, I feel like I have to get a starting pitcher out of this deal who's at least somewhat close the majors, and I wouldn't be willing to take a pupu platter of lesser prospects from either LA or Minnesota. How, exactly, does this get worked out? If Minny won't give any on this at some point, I genuinely think you say sorry and move on. I don't think we'll do that for some reason, but that's what you would do in any other reasonable situation. Tell them to have fun with Kevin Slowey bobblehead night and hang up the phone.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,685
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Post by cdj on Feb 8, 2020 0:01:49 GMT -5
Twins beat writer... To sum up... The Twins aren't willing to add another significant prospect to Graterol. The Twins aren't willing to substitute a starting pitcher with similar value in Balazovic. If I'm the Red Sox, I feel like I have to get a starting pitcher out of this deal who's at least somewhat close the majors, and I wouldn't be willing to take a pupu platter of lesser prospects from either LA or Minnesota. How, exactly, does this get worked out? you walk away from the table. The dodgers will come back
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Post by buffs4444 on Feb 8, 2020 1:39:29 GMT -5
Strange that a deal takes this long to finalize....
Strange to the point of wondering whether this is more of a “Mookie stared at the reality of what was about to happen and decided he really could be happy making $30M/yr, for way too many years, playing in Boston.”
Now, nothing about any of that is intended to disparage other teams or really any other aspect of the deal. But, sometimes we as human beings while in the process of making those ‘big decisions’ in life sometimes watch as everything goes down to the absolute frayed end of last thread on the wire, to the point where for many years later you will have this bizarre story-of-all-stories to share over beers and campfires, and about that time when this really important aspect of your life almost becomes something else entirely....it’s right then when you realize that you’re pretty happy with where you’ve been all along.
(Welcome back home, Mookie. Congrats on the $300M extension)
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 8, 2020 7:21:47 GMT -5
I can’t imagine how anything iideal is going to come forward as a solution. Probably a pitching prospect or mlb pitcher with a more modest ceiling and better X-Rays? This has probably been pre-refuted ten pages ago, but we couldn’t just take Maeda and his weird contract and cut our Price payments by a good bit? Too mediocre? Dependent on big park? Dodgers wouldn’t like it but what would they like? (Thanks, Eric)
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 8, 2020 7:25:49 GMT -5
I wouldn't want 30+ year old Maeda. There's no upside there. He's a solid contributor to a team ready to win now. Boston doesn't fit that profile right now. They need a 2021 potential rotation piece with upside. Hopefully we hear something today.
Dodgers might have to give up more value and hope that they are motivated enough to do it. The Twins aren't giving up more value for Maeda.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 8, 2020 7:57:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think we're in a place as a franchise where we should be taking on Kenta Maeda or even Joc Pederson.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 8, 2020 8:19:35 GMT -5
Oh good, spent the day away and I was afraid this might be a done deal when I got back home. It's still not too late guys, let's not trade Mookie. Remember last year, when people were complaining that the offseason was too boring? Great, glad we solved that problem.
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 8, 2020 8:37:18 GMT -5
Jon Heyman is up early this morning encouraging the Red Sox to just accept a franchise-altering trade that they're not happy with in order to avoid hurting Mookie and Price's feelings.
I wonder if it's hard to tweet with Scott Boras pulling all those strings.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 8, 2020 8:39:43 GMT -5
Twins beat writer... To sum up... The Twins aren't willing to add another significant prospect to Graterol. The Twins aren't willing to substitute a starting pitcher with similar value in Balazovic. If I'm the Red Sox, I feel like I have to get a starting pitcher out of this deal who's at least somewhat close the majors, and I wouldn't be willing to take a pupu platter of lesser prospects from either LA or Minnesota. How, exactly, does this get worked out?Simple. Back of the of the dumbest trade in franchise history since Babe Ruth. Basically, the Sox have two choices: 1) Back out of this deal if they don't get what they want. 2) Settle for far less than what they were anticipating they were going to get. My guess is that the Sox will settle for far less than what they wanted which was obviously Verdugo and a high upside young cost controlled starter near major league ready. The Twins are not going to give more for Maeda than Graterol and they shouldn't. That's about equal value, and no other team is going to give that up for the equivalent of Maeda, either. The Twins aren't stupid. These aren't the same Twins that gave away David Ortiz so they could protect some young SS who couldn't hit. Really, the Dodgers should kick in a prospect to make this work, but they won't. In their mind 5 years of Verdugo is equal to one of Mookie and mathematically speaking, it is. My feeling is that the Sox' desire to get under the luxury tax, rid themselves of part of David Price's contract, and their lack of desire to give Mookie market value money will add up to the Sox just taking what they can get to complete the deal. They'll get some lottery ticket or some draft pick compensation or international money (I would have loved to see the Red Sox get a guy like Andy Pages. At this point I'd probably settle for Caleb Ferguson if that was an option, if the Dodgers would stop hoarding all of their young pitchers, but then again why shouldn't they?) from somebody to complete the deal. The Red Sox don't want this to fall apart anymore than the other teams or else the Sox are saddled with payroll they still can't get rid of in their quest to drop below 208 million. Hope I'm wrong but I think by the end of this weekend the Sox will blink, and the deal will be completed. Short of Jeter Downs and either Gray or Ruiz/Cartaya, I'd run away from this deal if I were the Red Sox, but I'm afraid they won't.
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 8, 2020 8:44:11 GMT -5
I wouldnt be surprised if now that the Maeda part of the deal is public, the Dodgers and Sox are enlisting other teams for that portion to get the right prospect. Bidding war on Maeda. Maybe Graerool is the best return for that. But I doubt the Sox and Dodgers are just staring each other down right now. And if it were a matter of getting secondary parts from Minn, that's an easy conversation that doesn't take a day.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 8, 2020 8:44:34 GMT -5
Strange that a deal takes this long to finalize.... Strange to the point of wondering whether this is more of a “Mookie stared at the reality of what was about to happen and decided he really could be happy making $30M/yr, for way too many years, playing in Boston.” Now, nothing about any of that is intended to disparage other teams or really any other aspect of the deal. But, sometimes we as human beings while in the process of making those ‘big decisions’ in life sometimes watch as everything goes down to the absolute frayed end of last thread on the wire, to the point where for many years later you will have this bizarre story-of-all-stories to share over beers and campfires, and about that time when this really important aspect of your life almost becomes something else entirely....it’s right then when you realize that you’re pretty happy with where you’ve been all along. (Welcome back home, Mookie. Congrats on the $300M extension) I think more likely it'll reinforce to Mookie that there's no loyalty and it really is all just about business, so I think he'll still be going to go to the highest bidder at the end of the season and if it's the Red Sox, cool, but if it's not, he'll enjoy his new home.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 8, 2020 8:47:43 GMT -5
I wouldnt be surprised if now that the Maeda part of the deal is public, the Dodgers and Sox are enlisting other teams for that portion to get the right prospect. Bidding war on Maeda. Maybe Graerool is the best return for that. But I doubt the Sox and Dodgers are just staring each other down right now. And if it were a matter of getting secondary parts from Minn, that's an easy conversation that doesn't take a day. But that's the thing - who in their right mind values Maeda as a starter worthy of giving up a young cost controlled mid to upper rotation potential kind of guy? That's what the Sox thought was possible with Graterol. If the Twins thought that were possible, they'd never have included him in the deal, the same way they won't include Jordan Balsavich (or however you spell his name). I think the Sox and Dodgers will be looking for a long time for a sucker to give what the Sox thought the Twins were giving them, which was the Dustin May substitute.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 8, 2020 8:56:06 GMT -5
Oh good, spent the day away and I was afraid this might be a done deal when I got back home. It's still not too late guys, let's not trade Mookie. Remember last year, when people were complaining that the offseason was too boring? Great, glad we solved that problem. This off-season has been awesome, outside of Houston and Boston. Even still, bad news is still relevant news that helps the sport.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 8, 2020 8:59:36 GMT -5
Jon Heyman is up early this morning encouraging the Red Sox to just accept a franchise-altering trade that they're not happy with in order to avoid hurting Mookie and Price's feelings. I wonder if it's hard to tweet with Scott Boras pulling all those strings. Boras puppet or not, he's not wrong. The whole idea that Mookie wants to be in Boston I think is wishful thinking anyway, but the team is doing its damnedest to extinguish any kind feelings he might have towards them. Mmm, sure want to come back to the team that couldn't even trade me away correctly.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 8, 2020 9:01:38 GMT -5
Hope I'm wrong but I think by the end of this weekend the Sox will blink, and the deal will be completed. Short of Jeter Downs and either Gray or Ruiz/Cartaya, I'd run away from this deal if I were the Red Sox, but I'm afraid they won't. Yup.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 8, 2020 9:01:54 GMT -5
Remember last year, when people were complaining that the offseason was too boring? Great, glad we solved that problem. This off-season has been awesome, outside of Houston and Boston. Even still, bad news is still relevant news that helps the sport. I was thinking specifically of the Red Sox offseason, but also, I don't know if I'd say it "helps the sport" when you have a significant number of fans who now believe the 2017 WS to be fundamentally illegitimate.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 8, 2020 9:02:14 GMT -5
Jon Heyman is up early this morning encouraging the Red Sox to just accept a franchise-altering trade that they're not happy with in order to avoid hurting Mookie and Price's feelings. I wonder if it's hard to tweet with Scott Boras pulling all those strings. Boras puppet or not, he's not wrong. The whole idea that Mookie wants to be in Boston I think is wishful thinking anyway, but the team is doing its damnedest to extinguish any kind feelings he might have towards them. Mmm, sure want to come back to the team that couldn't even trade me away correctly. No he isn't. Its looking at this situation through rose colored glasses to believe that the Red Sox are in the drivers seat. They honestly probably will accept the deal as is and move on. It was a good try but Friedman is amazing at his job and Bloom got played by his old boss.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 8, 2020 9:05:19 GMT -5
This off-season has been awesome, outside of Houston and Boston. Even still, bad news is still relevant news that helps the sport. I was thinking specifically of the Red Sox offseason, but also, I don't know if I'd say it "helps the sport" when you have a significant number of fans who now believe the 2017 WS to be fundamentally illegitimate. Meh, it drives interest. Gives the fans a villain, just like the Patriots are the football's villain. It adds to it. First time in forever for me where the NFL playoffs were on and all I heard about is the Houston cheating scandal. As for the Sox, most knew this was coming. Henry was showing his cards in September by already talking about cutting payroll. It is what it is.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 8, 2020 9:06:23 GMT -5
No he isn't. Its looking at this situation through rose colored glasses to believe that the Red Sox are in the drivers seat. They honestly probably will accept the deal as is and move on. It was a good try but Friedman is amazing at his job and Bloom got played by his old boss. He got played by his new boss. So much leverage went out the window when the Red Sox telegraphed their mandate to re-set the luxury tax. Friedman wants Mookie, but Bloom needs to move him. And Friedman knows that, because Warner and Henry were blabbing about it in November. Game over.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 8, 2020 9:17:12 GMT -5
Just trade Mookie to SD if Minnesota of all teams is trying to low ball us.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 8, 2020 9:19:58 GMT -5
Jon Heyman is up early this morning encouraging the Red Sox to just accept a franchise-altering trade that they're not happy with in order to avoid hurting Mookie and Price's feelings. I wonder if it's hard to tweet with Scott Boras pulling all those strings. Does this moron know Mookie is a free agent next year?
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