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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,684
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Post by cdj on Feb 8, 2020 17:08:17 GMT -5
Ken rosenthal out here acting like the Sox can google graterol’s medical records
Very irresponsible reporting by one of the best
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,966
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Post by TearsIn04 on Feb 8, 2020 17:20:42 GMT -5
I'm looking for the greatest return that will help the RS in 2022 and beyond. think it's going to take two years to accumulate meaningful low-priced talent to integrate into a nucleus of X, Devers, Beni, E-Rod, etc. and be in a position to fill out a roster with decent FAs.
Thus, I'd like to see them maximize the prospect return here. I'd be happy with the Twinkies replacing Gatorade with Jordan Balazovic and a CBP, which would be no. 67 overall, and some international signing money. (I'm surprised there hasn't been more chatter about our demanding a CBP from the Twinkies. And the RS should be trying to extract int signing money from smaller-market teams every year.)
I'd be willing to throw Workman or Barnes into the Dodgers end of the deal and even pick up more of Price's salary to get Friedman to move off his prospect stubborness. Sweeten the pot for LA and demand Gray or Downs. If Friedman wants to pull back on Verdugo and sub in both Gray and Downs, shake his hand, do the physicals and schedule a presser to announce the deal.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 8, 2020 17:21:04 GMT -5
At this point I got to believe Rosenthal is in the tank for someone other than the Sox. Respect his reporting, but his recent tweets seems like he is projecting
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Post by manfred on Feb 8, 2020 17:29:51 GMT -5
In Rosenthal’s defense, he is making a fair point: the Twins saw him as a reliever fir reasons that likely had nothing to do with health and everything to do with the lack of an off-speed pitch. His stuff cries out closer, looks like a guy a long way from starting.
Actually reminds me of Ruby a bit.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 8, 2020 17:40:10 GMT -5
Something that needs to be pointed out: this isn't the old days, where someone bought the Globe and you guesstimated they might be doing it for Gammons' column.
Twitter accounts vacuum up followers. You know exactly where you stand. So if you want to stand out, you need a lot of those followers. You do that by stoking the fires of doubt and controversy, by keeping people on the hook. Rosenthal is a decent guy but he won't be any different, he can't be. He's in the market for eyeballs.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 8, 2020 17:41:32 GMT -5
In Rosenthal’s defense, he is making a fair point: the Twins saw him as a reliever fir reasons that likely had nothing to do with health and everything to do with the lack of an off-speed pitch. His stuff cries out closer, looks like a guy a long way from starting. Actually reminds me of Ruby a bit. And how do you know this? You have no idea how the Twins saw him. You also have no idea how the Sox see him (arm health aside). You also have no idea that if the Twins think his arm is fine and still see him as a reliever, why would the Sox see him as a starter. Seriously, they brought him up in a relief role because that's how you get the majors more quickly, for most guys. He also has that injury history, so he has fewer innings built up. If they wanted to take advantage of his power arm for the stretch run and the playoffs - relief role it had to be. So stop pretending like you have any idea what the Twins think based on this.
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Post by 07redsox on Feb 8, 2020 17:45:43 GMT -5
In Rosenthal’s defense, he is making a fair point: the Twins saw him as a reliever fir reasons that likely had nothing to do with health and everything to do with the lack of an off-speed pitch. His stuff cries out closer, looks like a guy a long way from starting. Actually reminds me of Ruby a bit. Except he does throw a change up. It’s just not considered a relatively good one. The guy is 21 years old. How do you know that the Red Sox didn’t see something in that change up that they could work with, or felt like it would get better with more refinement. Again, he’s 21 years old. That’s the point everyone is making. It’s one thing for the Sox to disagree with the Twins about his future if they see something different with how his pitches may develop. It’s another thing entirely to view the medicals and see that something may not be exactly what they expected.
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Post by 07redsox on Feb 8, 2020 17:48:20 GMT -5
Also, I don’t particularly remember seeing anything that said the Twins specifically view his as a reliever. Does anyone have a link to anything like that? From what I have seen, they put him in the bullpen to pitch in the playoffs when they get they could use him. There is a big difference between that and viewing him only as a reliever for the rest of his career. It’s not like he is a 26 year old who has been in the majors for a few years now.
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Post by manfred on Feb 8, 2020 17:48:50 GMT -5
In Rosenthal’s defense, he is making a fair point: the Twins saw him as a reliever fir reasons that likely had nothing to do with health and everything to do with the lack of an off-speed pitch. His stuff cries out closer, looks like a guy a long way from starting. Actually reminds me of Ruby a bit. And how do you know this? You have no idea how the Twins saw him. You also have no idea how the Sox see him (arm health aside). You also have no idea that if the Twins think his arm is fine and still see him as a reliever, why would the Sox see him as a starter. Seriously, they brought him up in a relief role because that's how you get the majors more quickly, for most guys. He also has that injury history, so he has fewer innings built up. If they wanted to take advantage of his power arm for the stretch run and the playoffs - relief role it had to be. So stop pretending like you have any idea what the Twins think based on this. I don’t know, but baseball journalists might. My point is, I am not sure why people see him as a top STARTER prospect, when he has started 9 games above A ball, thrown over 100 innings once, and has no demonstrated change of pace. He might be Hail Mary starter prospect or a relatively safe reliever prospect. But it might be they brought him up to relieve because that is what he is suited for?
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Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 8, 2020 17:50:57 GMT -5
And how do you know this? You have no idea how the Twins saw him. You also have no idea how the Sox see him (arm health aside). You also have no idea that if the Twins think his arm is fine and still see him as a reliever, why would the Sox see him as a starter. Seriously, they brought him up in a relief role because that's how you get the majors more quickly, for most guys. He also has that injury history, so he has fewer innings built up. If they wanted to take advantage of his power arm for the stretch run and the playoffs - relief role it had to be. So stop pretending like you have any idea what the Twins think based on this. I don’t know, but baseball journalists might. My point is, I am not sure This is my point.
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Post by manfred on Feb 8, 2020 17:52:25 GMT -5
In Rosenthal’s defense, he is making a fair point: the Twins saw him as a reliever fir reasons that likely had nothing to do with health and everything to do with the lack of an off-speed pitch. His stuff cries out closer, looks like a guy a long way from starting. Actually reminds me of Ruby a bit. Except he does throw a change up. It’s just not considered a relatively good one. The guy is 21 years old. How do you know that the Red Sox didn’t see something in that change up that they could work with, or felt like it would get better with more refinement. Again, he’s 21 years old. That’s the point everyone is making. It’s one thing for the Sox to disagree with the Twins about his future if they see something different with how his pitches may develop. It’s another thing entirely to view the medicals and see that something may not be exactly what they expected. That is, of course, equally speculative. But I’ll say this: changeups are hard pitches, harder than sliders and cutters. When you throw 100 and have a good slider, maybe you get away with a show-me change. But the point is, again, as is he looks like a reliever, so he’d have to be a different guy to have a starter’s repertoire.
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Post by manfred on Feb 8, 2020 17:54:47 GMT -5
I don’t know, but baseball journalists might. My point is, I am not sure This is my point. Well, that sort of takes me out of context, but cool. Luckily, it looks like it won’t matter, because it looks like the Sox might not get him. Always been my preference.
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Post by 07redsox on Feb 8, 2020 17:56:06 GMT -5
Except he does throw a change up. It’s just not considered a relatively good one. The guy is 21 years old. How do you know that the Red Sox didn’t see something in that change up that they could work with, or felt like it would get better with more refinement. Again, he’s 21 years old. That’s the point everyone is making. It’s one thing for the Sox to disagree with the Twins about his future if they see something different with how his pitches may develop. It’s another thing entirely to view the medicals and see that something may not be exactly what they expected. That is, of course, equally speculative. But I’ll say this: changeups are hard pitches, harder than sliders and cutters. When you throw 100 and have a good slider, maybe you get away with a show-me change. But the point is, again, as is he looks like a reliever, so he’d have to be a different guy to have a starter’s repertoire. The point is though that the Red Sox clearly see him (before the medicals) as a starter. You may not, but it really doesn’t matter what we think. If that’s how they view him then it makes sense for them to want him and the value they placed on him. Whether that is right or wrong, none of us will know for a long time. Given the lack of development for starters in the system I wouldn’t be too confident, but crazier things have happened.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 8, 2020 18:24:10 GMT -5
Why can't they just keep Mookie? Why people say it's a foregone conclusion they can't re-sign him?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 8, 2020 18:26:48 GMT -5
Why can't they just keep Mookie? Why people say it's a foregone conclusion they can't re-sign him? They can. Especially if other teams keep low balling us and Yankees keep getting hurt or suspended.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 8, 2020 18:35:38 GMT -5
Why can't they just keep Mookie? Why people say it's a foregone conclusion they can't re-sign him? Also, why would people like us who hated the deal from the first millisecond, who are rooting for it to fall apart, be mad if it plays out that way? I'd rather never trade Mookie and see him walk because someone gave him $450 million than trade him for a terrible package just because.
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Post by p23w on Feb 8, 2020 18:39:58 GMT -5
It's all about IP.... Price will likely give the Dodgers an equivalent amount of innings as Maeda (160-180). Graterol's chance of giving the RS the same as Price is doubtful (very). Porcello is gone. Sale and Eovaldi have endurance questions. Perez who knows. Front office stepped in with pitching if this trade goes through as is.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Feb 8, 2020 18:54:09 GMT -5
I don’t understand why the Twins would be motivated to go back to the table in the interest of acquiring Maeda. If the Dodgers tmrwakit want Betts then they should be motivated to trade some of their top minor league players. Now the door is open for other teams such as the Padres and Braves to come back into the trade negotiations. The amount of projection by guys like Rosenrhal are putting out there is over the top, How about reporting that deals aren’t done until teams sign off on the medicals. The rush to be first shouldn’t compromise the importance of being accurate.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 8, 2020 18:55:48 GMT -5
Sucks to lose out on Graterol, but it is what it is. It will be interesting to hear the final reasoning from the Redsox mouths. Definitely will be interesting as well to see what happens at this point. I do hope a deal is struck in one way or another, but obviously for the right price (no pun intended with price haha).
Makes me wonder if the Dodgers will be inclined to overpay some now. With the fans being so excited about the deal they could drive this situation at least a little bit. Maybe the Angels step in to try and resolve everything. Thats assuming they want Joc Pederson enough. I would also be fine if they did maybe Tony Gonsolin and another prospect or something too.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 8, 2020 18:58:24 GMT -5
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Post by lennsakata on Feb 8, 2020 19:05:56 GMT -5
Sucks to lose out on Graterol, but it is what it is. It will be interesting to hear the final reasoning from the Redsox mouths. Definitely will be interesting as well to see what happens at this point. I do hope a deal is struck in one way or another, but obviously for the right price (no pun intended with price haha). Makes me wonder if the Dodgers will be inclined to overpay some now. With the fans being so excited about the deal they could drive this situation at least a little bit. Maybe the Angels step in to try and resolve everything. Thats assuming they want Joc Pederson enough. I don’t think we’ll hear any final reasoning other than we were uncomfortable with the medical info if they even say that. They can’t get into specifics regarding Gruterol’s shoulder so we’ll never know if the perceive the likelihood of future injury to be significant or marginal I do agree about the Dodgers feeling some pressure here as well... I keep hearing how the Sox have to acquiesce here but coming off two WS losses I think they need to do something. If I was a Dodgers fan I could see enough in house, long term improvements (Lux, May) that I’d be ok with them playing hardball but I think most fans what them to do something drastic to push them over the hump.
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Post by malynn19 on Feb 8, 2020 19:35:31 GMT -5
Henry can’t stop looking bad lately Henry looking bad? Have you seen the Premier League standings?
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Post by malynn19 on Feb 8, 2020 19:45:49 GMT -5
I don’t understand why the Twins would be motivated to go back to the table in the interest of acquiring Maeda. If the Dodgers tmrwakit want Betts then they should be motivated to trade some of their top minor league players. Now the door is open for other teams such as the Padres and Braves to come back into the trade negotiations. The amount of projection by guys like Rosenrhal are putting out there is over the top, How about reporting that deals aren’t done until teams sign off on the medicals. The rush to be first shouldn’t compromise the importance of being accurate. I wish I could like this comment 10 times!
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 8, 2020 19:48:13 GMT -5
Sucks to lose out on Graterol, but it is what it is. It will be interesting to hear the final reasoning from the Redsox mouths. Definitely will be interesting as well to see what happens at this point. I do hope a deal is struck in one way or another, but obviously for the right price (no pun intended with price haha). Makes me wonder if the Dodgers will be inclined to overpay some now. With the fans being so excited about the deal they could drive this situation at least a little bit. Maybe the Angels step in to try and resolve everything. Thats assuming they want Joc Pederson enough. I don’t think we’ll hear any final reasoning other than we were uncomfortable with the medical info if they even say that. They can’t get into specifics regarding Gruterol’s shoulder so we’ll never know if the perceive the likelihood of future injury to be significant or marginal I do agree about the Dodgers feeling some pressure here as well... I keep hearing how the Sox have to acquiesce here but coming off two WS losses I think they need to do something. If I was a Dodgers fan I could see enough in house, long term improvements (Lux, May) that I’d be ok with them playing hardball but I think most fans what them to do something drastic to push them over the hump. Ya I guess we never would get a 100% response outside of what you had mentioned. I feel bad for all the players involved, but particularly Graterol. Any attempt to trade him later would be harder after all this too. I could see the Dodgers playing hardball a bit, but don't think they will. Where their fanbase is so jazzed up about landing Betts/Price it will be hard to delay. That and they will be pushed some with spring training coming fast. This deal falling through would create quite a few angry players haha. So almost have to do something. I would love for them to pony up May if they were super pressured, but I would think Verdugo, Gonsolin, and/or Downs could finalize it. Tony Gonsolin has a similar profile to Graterol, but is technically a "lesser" prospect so who knows. He does have much higher rated secondary pitches and a heavy FB. Keep in mind i'm only comparing them based on the expectation of them being a SP (Lots of upside but #2-#3 type) but could become RP.
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Post by geostorm on Feb 8, 2020 22:06:50 GMT -5
Padres deal Manuel Margot and prospect Logan Driscoll to the Rays for RHP Emilio Pagan. Margot had been part of discussions with the Red Sox about Betts. Trading Margot suggests that Padres don’t expect Sox to re-engage on Betts, so SD opted to move on to another deal. per Alex Speier Twitter
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