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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 18:51:23 GMT -5
The real benefits come in 2021, when Mookie becomes a free agent and can go to any team, including the Red Sox. this!! 2021 lineup Benny Mookie Devers JD Xander Verdugo Dalbec/Chavis Downs Vazquez heard it here first I like the optimism, but... I doubt it. I would be surprised if Downs nestles into 2B out of spring training in 2021. He is very young.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 9, 2020 18:56:30 GMT -5
this!! 2021 lineup Benny Mookie Devers JD Xander Verdugo Dalbec/Chavis Downs Vazquez heard it here first I like the optimism, but... I doubt it. I would be surprised if Downs nestles into 2B out of spring training in 2021. He is very young. Downs is more 2022 I think. Either way the Sox have their 2B of the future.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:01:00 GMT -5
It's too bad that getting Downs and keeping Graterol wasn't an option. A potential lights out closer is greater value than a potential backup catcher.
Hard to see Wong controlling his K issues enough to hold a high enough BA in the majors. He's probably a .220 hitter in the majors with a terrible OBP and 20 HR pop. I guess that could be a starter on a bunch of teams I suppose now that I think of it, but man, the OBP will be low and those Ks so high.
Seems to me the Sox did have to settle here. It's that beyond Verdugo, they had 3 priorities they wanted filled:
1) young cost controlled starting pitcher who could be a potential top of the rotation starter if not mid-rotation starter. 2) young cost controlled middle of the diamond athlete who could play either 2b, ss, or cf (and let's face it 2b is an area of need). 3) young catcher to plug into a system that is devoid of any catching prospects.
When Graterol's exams told the Sox that he's not going to 1), they figured he's a bullpen arm, which didn't make their top 3, so they took the other two areas instead.
I know I had a debate with somebody regarding values, but I really do think that instead of the 100% value they saw in what Graterol the starter could be, they took 75% of that value with Downs (a less valuable commodity than what they dreamed on Graterol to be) and 25% value on Wong (somebody who could be a low end starter or backup catcher) to get their imagined 100% value.
I'll contradict myself here a little and wonder if presented with the option would the Sox have taken Graterol the reliever versus Wong if that option had been presented to them. I would suspect they would have, but that the Dodgers didn't give them that choice unless the Red Sox were willing to not come away with Downs.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:01:51 GMT -5
I like the optimism, but... I doubt it. I would be surprised if Downs nestles into 2B out of spring training in 2021. He is very young. Downs is more 2022 I think. Either way the Sox have their 2B of the future. Hopefully Xander continues to be serviceable at SS over the next few years and doesn't necessitate a defensive position shift such as 2b.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:04:33 GMT -5
Dodgers are also getting a outfield prospect from the Twins, per Heyman. How? Damn they made out on that twins end of the deal Aren't they getting some useful prospects out of the Angels? I mean, they sent Joc Pederson, Ross Stripling, AND Andy Pages. They must be getting back something far more than a future utility infielder from the Angels? Right? Perhaps an OF prospect from them (not Adell)? Maybe Marsh?
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Feb 9, 2020 19:08:30 GMT -5
How? Damn they made out on that twins end of the deal Aren't they getting some useful prospects out of the Angels? I mean, they sent Joc Pederson, Ross Stripling, AND Andy Pages. They must be getting back something far more than a future utility infielder from the Angels? Right? Perhaps an OF prospect from them (not Adell)? Maybe Marsh? Deal was speculated to be for Luis Reginfo, so basically a cash clearing move.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:08:37 GMT -5
I haven't seen a mad dodger fan. Friedman killed it. A poster literally just quoted like 5 incredibly mad dodgers fans a page ago lol Dodgers fans have no reason to gripe. They killed it in these deals, although I should wait and see what they got from the Angels. They should be set for quite awhile and there's no reason they shouldn't be the front-runner to bring back Mookie if they want to. They added a key bullpen piece who could very well be a difference maker in their pen this year. My guess is he'll be the closer at the end of the year and he could very well be the man on the mound if they win the Series as long as Roberts gives Price a short leash against the Yankees (we've seen how that movie goes) They improved their current squad immensely. They'll probably replenish their OF and middle infield depth in these minor league pickups. They held onto their two best catching prospects. They held onto all of their young pitchers and I do believe Price will be a big help to them. Friedman was awesome.
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Post by mainesox on Feb 9, 2020 19:09:49 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:10:11 GMT -5
Aren't they getting some useful prospects out of the Angels? I mean, they sent Joc Pederson, Ross Stripling, AND Andy Pages. They must be getting back something far more than a future utility infielder from the Angels? Right? Perhaps an OF prospect from them (not Adell)? Maybe Marsh? Deal was speculated to be for Luis Reginfo, so basically a cash clearing move. It's gotta be more than that or else that's an awful deal. I get the gist of it is to clear cash, but Stripling and Pedersen are big additions to the Angels and Pages is a very intriguing offensive prospect as well. That's a lot just to clear cash.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 19:10:40 GMT -5
I like the optimism, but... I doubt it. I would be surprised if Downs nestles into 2B out of spring training in 2021. He is very young. Downs is more 2022 I think. Either way the Sox have their 2B of the future. That is SUPER optimistic. Guy has a lot of room for development. People seem to be plugging him in, when he is a 20-year-old who has played a dozen games over A ball (where he hit around .260). We’ll see.
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jmanny24
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Post by jmanny24 on Feb 9, 2020 19:12:09 GMT -5
I think this is a solid return given the circumstances and certainly better than a 4th rd pick, and now they still have a chance to re-sign Betts if he reaches FA. Now they have to fill out the rotation, one thing is for sure, a lot of people ie media fans etc. overvalue what a return can actually be for a guy with 1 yr left who has publically stated he's going to FA no matter what. Lastly, I know some people will find something wrong with everything but man I really wanna know from a few, what does cheerios with urine taste like b/c that's all I see a lot of peeing in cheerios.
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 9, 2020 19:12:48 GMT -5
So does Downs start the year at Portland, instead of Ryan Fitzgerald?
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 19:13:46 GMT -5
I think this is a solid return given the circumstances and certainly better than a 4th rd pick, and now they still have a chance to re-sign Betts if he reaches FA. Now they have to fill out the rotation, one thing is for sure, a lot of people ie media fans etc. overvalue what a return can actually be for a guy with 1 yr left who has publically stated he's going to FA no matter what. Lastly, I know some people will find something wrong with everything but man I really wanna know from a few, what does cheerios with urine taste like b/c that's all I see a lot of peeing in cheerios. Tastes a lot like trading away the best player you’ve developed in over 50 years and punting on at least next season?
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Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 9, 2020 19:14:35 GMT -5
Downs is more 2022 I think. Either way the Sox have their 2B of the future. That is SUPER optimistic. Guy has a lot of room for development. People seem to be plugging him in, when he is a 20-year-old who has played a dozen games over A ball (where he hit around .260). We’ll see. He put up excellent numbers last year and should start this year in AA. Downs making the majors this year is super optimistic, but making the 2022 squad just means he continues on his current trajectory.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 9, 2020 19:15:39 GMT -5
The real benefits come in 2021, when Mookie becomes a free agent and can go to any team, including the Red Sox. I’ve said all along that if they end up signing Betts, this was brilliant. I just don’t think that will happen. This trade absolutely hinges on how the money gets spent. Verdugo is not a guy who stars on a championship team. He might start on one, but he is not an MVP replacement. At least one of two things must happen for the Sox not to have a few years in the wilderness: Devers has to keep improving and they need to sign a top-line, MVP candidate FA. Nobody is arguing that Verdugo is going to be an MVP. But Nobody is giving up an ML ready top 10 prospect (Soto or Acuna type) for 1-yr of Mookie. Bloom did fantastic.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 19:20:18 GMT -5
I’ve said all along that if they end up signing Betts, this was brilliant. I just don’t think that will happen. This trade absolutely hinges on how the money gets spent. Verdugo is not a guy who stars on a championship team. He might start on one, but he is not an MVP replacement. At least one of two things must happen for the Sox not to have a few years in the wilderness: Devers has to keep improving and they need to sign a top-line, MVP candidate FA. Nobody is arguing that Verdugo is going to be an MVP. But Nobody is giving up an ML ready top 10 prospect (Soto or Acuna type) for 1-yr of Mookie. Bloom did fantastic. Look, people can say he did well if you add “under the circumstances.” Fine, so in a loser position, the Sox may have lost less bad than they might have. But that is different than “fantastic” period. The team is worse than it was by far as it stands. That is just the way it is. So the best that can be said is this incomplete until they spend the money they saved.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:20:58 GMT -5
Downs is more 2022 I think. Either way the Sox have their 2B of the future. That is SUPER optimistic. Guy has a lot of room for development. People seem to be plugging him in, when he is a 20-year-old who has played a dozen games over A ball (where he hit around .260). We’ll see. Actually he is 21 and will be 22 in July. He hit .269 in A ball but with walks, speed, and power. Also, his numbers he has put up hasn't been in hitter friendly leagues. And then he went to AA ball briefly and played very well, so he was hardly overmatched in AA. There's a reasonable chance that he's ready at some point in 2021, possibly sooner than later. Jeter Downs is a legit prospect. You wanted one...here you go. He projects to be an everyday regular who might have some all-star seasons in him. He's not going to be a superstar but he should hit for a respectable BA, with power, speed, and decent plate discipline. And he can play 2b, ss, cf, probably rf, although 2b is his best position, which coincidentally is a position of need with the Red Sox. Hopefully Xander stays at SS over the next few years.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 9, 2020 19:22:38 GMT -5
I’ve said all along that if they end up signing Betts, this was brilliant. I just don’t think that will happen. This trade absolutely hinges on how the money gets spent. Verdugo is not a guy who stars on a championship team. He might start on one, but he is not an MVP replacement. At least one of two things must happen for the Sox not to have a few years in the wilderness: Devers has to keep improving and they need to sign a top-line, MVP candidate FA. Nobody is arguing that Verdugo is going to be an MVP. But Nobody is giving up an ML ready top 10 prospect (Soto or Acuna type) for 1-yr of Mookie. Bloom did fantastic. They had a gaping void at 2B that they now have hopes on filling with a good, cost-controlled player. Again, Verdugo was January 2019 Baseball Prospectus number 16th prospect in baseball. That's a phenomenal return for 1 season of any player. Jeter Downs is the Red Sox number 1 prospect right now. They also got some future catching depth who could maybe develop more if he cuts down on his k-rate. All this and going below the luxury tax means they are more likely to re- sign Betts in 2021. If/when this team is out of the Wild Card I suspect they'll go further under and trade pieces like JBJ, Martinez, and maybe Eovaldi if he's healthy and pitching to his potential. Edit: If Verdugo has an .850+ OPS I wonder what the narrative on this trade will be?
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 9, 2020 19:25:06 GMT -5
Downs is more 2022 I think. Either way the Sox have their 2B of the future. That is SUPER optimistic. Guy has a lot of room for development. People seem to be plugging him in, when he is a 20-year-old who has played a dozen games over A ball (where he hit around .260). We’ll see. Kind of like people did with Xander, Mookie, and Devers
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Post by carl4sox on Feb 9, 2020 19:25:39 GMT -5
Congratulations, Chaim! You hung in there. Some others here thought we could get 4-5 top 10 prospects. You aimed high, and we got it. Total cojanes. So sorry to see Mookie go but that’s the way it is. Vertigo-Downes-Wong is an OK package. I love Chaim as GM.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:27:25 GMT -5
Nobody is arguing that Verdugo is going to be an MVP. But Nobody is giving up an ML ready top 10 prospect (Soto or Acuna type) for 1-yr of Mookie. Bloom did fantastic. Look, people can say he did well if you add “under the circumstances.” Fine, so in a loser position, the Sox may have lost less bad than they might have. But that is different than “fantastic” period. The team is worse than it was by far as it stands. That is just the way it is. So the best that can be said is this incomplete until they spend the money they saved. Yes. It's all how you look at it. I'm sad because I know the Sox will be hardpressed to ever develop a prospect like Mookie again. He may be once in a lifetime, a guy who was great at EVERYTHING. I don't trust that the Sox will do what it takes to sign him back. They theoretically could if they outbid the Dodgers and whoever else bids, and if they did, they really kicked butt today. As far as this season goes, I never really felt they had a big shot at winning anything. I would have taken my chances, but for me, that's like a 51-49 proposition. I have little doubt the Yankees are better, and I'm pretty sure that there are two other non-division winners that are probably better than the Red Sox, with TB and Oakland as top candidates. Then there is still Cleveland, an improved teams in Toronto, Chicago, and Anaheim. The odds of the Sox making the playoffs were not great. And the only thing worse than this day is if Mookie walks away, the Sox didn't get under the limit, and they're stuck with a pick after the 4th round. That would really suck. You can't tell me a wasted season of Mookie and a draft pick is better than Verdugo (put aside the other stuff for the sake of this point), Downs, and Wong. Now the Sox have absolutely no excuse not to spend come 2021 - and I damn well hope it's on Mookie although I suspect it won't be. The one thing that does suck - is that the Sox have not improved their farm system's pitching one bit. That does suck. Bloom tried with Graterol, but it didn't work. The Sox have to start developing their own starting pitching prospects.
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Post by taftreign on Feb 9, 2020 19:29:34 GMT -5
Congratulations, Chaim! You hung in there. Some others here thought we could get 4-5 top 10 prospects. You aimed high, and we got it. Total cojanes. So sorry to see Mookie go but that’s the way it is. Vertigo-Downes-Wong is an OK package. I love Chaim as GM. This whole escapade left us all with a bit of Vertigo! Some people are pretty Downes about it. I hope their Wong.
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 9, 2020 19:30:46 GMT -5
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2020 19:36:14 GMT -5
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Idiots shouldn't have traded Mookie Betts.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 9, 2020 19:36:56 GMT -5
Well at least it’s over.
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