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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by carl4sox on Feb 9, 2020 19:37:08 GMT -5
Sorry, autoincorrect
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Post by geostorm on Feb 9, 2020 19:39:30 GMT -5
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Post by patford on Feb 9, 2020 19:39:36 GMT -5
Sox come away with two highly rated prospects (I'm counting Verdugo although he will likely never see the minors again) as well as an interesting catcher. And they reset the cap allowing them to resign Betts next year. I see this as a huge plus for the Sox in a year where they very likely weren't going to win the World Series.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 9, 2020 19:41:41 GMT -5
I get some people are just going to be negative about this no matter what but Verdugo is much more than just an okay outfielder, Jeter Downs more than a risky 2b prospect (I mean, all prospects are inherently risky), and Wong could be a part-time major leaguer. Stop trying to downplay the return just because you don't like losing Mookie. It's a good return. First off, it was Mookie AND Price (and half his pay). I think the latter has real value. So you trade away your #2 starter and best player. Fine. Defensible, but clearly that is a huge hit. In return, you have a RF who may be ok, but is obviously nowhere near Mookie. You get a 20-year-old 2B prospect in his 3rd organization with power and a lot of strikeouts. And a catcher who might not even project to make the majors. So the question is... when will real benefits come from this? Well... Downs is a bit away, so figure that still means both guys for Verdugo for about 2 years. The freed money better go to a big FA signing... and if that happens, maybe the team is back in business. But without spending that money well, the team is worse for this trade. You're looking at them purely for their downside and not their upside which I guess shouldn't be surprising but is ultimately illogical. Also, it's such a reach to use Downs being in his third organization is somehow a bad thing. That just means that teams covet him. Also, are you saying we only have Verdugo for 2 years? Because that's just not true. I get you're trying to spin this to look as bad as possible but you aren't doing a great job of it.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 9, 2020 19:46:40 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing.
I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best.
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Post by jdb on Feb 9, 2020 19:50:15 GMT -5
If Downs is thought of as the 2B of the future I wonder if Chavis could be dealt?
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2020 19:51:38 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth.
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Post by patford on Feb 9, 2020 19:53:23 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. I think the main reason the discussion was so negative is because lots of people are dumb.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:54:32 GMT -5
If Downs is thought of as the 2B of the future I wonder if Chavis could be dealt? Me might be the 2b of the present, but yeah, that's quite possible, but he might be needed to play 1b even if Downs is ready for 2b because Casas might not be ready at that point. Makes it hard to see a future for Dalbec and Chavis unless Chavis winds up in an OF corner, which I don't think will be the case.
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Post by geostorm on Feb 9, 2020 19:55:07 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 19:55:23 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. Nobody is happy about it. We're just resigned to it.
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Post by kevfc89 on Feb 9, 2020 19:55:37 GMT -5
if Price was our number 2 starter we probably weren't going to be all that better than last year. The last three years of Price have been 1.5 fWAR, 2.4 fWAR, and 2.3 fWAR. I don't get the idea that Price is all that valuable...seems to me the Dodgers paying half of his contract is right around what he's worth; which also suggests to me that the returning package of players would be similar if the trade only involved Betts.
Part of his lack of production has been injuries (though that doesn't explain 2018), but that's a big part of the equation with him lately and I don't exactly see it getting better as he gets older. This year he's projected by Steamer for again, 2.6 fWAR. Martin Perez reached 1.9 fWAR last year.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 19:56:57 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. That would’ve been in line if we didn’t make them take on Price’s money.
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Post by taftreign on Feb 9, 2020 19:58:08 GMT -5
If Downs is thought of as the 2B of the future I wonder if Chavis could be dealt? Prospect for prospect packages aren’t as common but you could see a case where Dalbec and Casas are redundant at some point and look to move Dalbec and Chavis in a deal for starting pitching.
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Post by jmanny24 on Feb 9, 2020 19:58:42 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. As they say don't ever let other facts get in the way of a good story. Don't worry about the fact that it also resets Draft and international signing penalties to help restock a system that needs restocking. Or the fact that they have the chance to sign said player just like every other team in baseball. Or the fact that they will have money to spend and don't have a history of sitting on money when they have a chance to spend it. but yup it was all about saving Henry money.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2020 20:03:21 GMT -5
Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. As they say don't ever let other facts get in the way of a good story. Don't worry about the fact that it also resets Draft and international signing penalties to help restock a system that needs restocking. Or the fact that they have the chance to sign said player just like every other team in baseball. Or the fact that they will have money to spend and don't have a history of sitting on money when they have a chance to spend it. but yup it was all about saving Henry money. Yeah, you are right trading our 27 year old MVP was the only way.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 20:03:58 GMT -5
Have to consider we are talking about penalties to draft picks we might not even have due to this sign-stealing thing.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 9, 2020 20:07:08 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. A. Babe Ruth hit more home runs than entire teams and the Red Sox had all the control of him. They traded him for cash. B. Mookie Betts could LITERALLY SIGN ANYWHERE next year, so how is it even remotely comparable? C. EVERY team resets after a couple of years. If the Yankees and Dodgers didn't, you'd have a point, but since literally every team does this then that means they'll have every opportunity in 2021 and 2022 to blow past the luxury tax.
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Post by grangerdanger413 on Feb 9, 2020 20:09:02 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. You can be mad about it all you want but this trade benefits us. Yeah it sucks that he’s gone. But you can’t fix that. “They’re idiotic for trading Betts” at this point they’re not but they shouldn’t have let it get to this point in the first place. It’s also not Chaims fault. He inherited this mess and made the most of what he could bring back. We’re VERY well positioned to spend big in the next couple years based on this trade and getting significantly below the luxury tax. Yes it sucks that he got traded but we would’ve been worse off had he had stayed. If he stayed we still would’ve been way over the line, would endure even more severe penalties, and would’ve been in baseball purgatory had we not cut the food off the tree. They’re doing this for the future of the team. And if they resign mookie, which is doubtful, then that’s a big win. But being mad about them trading him is irrational at this point because it was pretty inevitable.
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Post by kman22 on Feb 9, 2020 20:09:12 GMT -5
The Joc Pederson to LAA deal fell through.
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Post by mainesox on Feb 9, 2020 20:10:29 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Yeah, while it is completely possible that they re-sign Mookie a year from now, it's more likely that he ends up somewhere else. Frankly though, if he gets 10+ years, I'm not convinced that I want them to re-sign him.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 9, 2020 20:10:45 GMT -5
I do think one of the reasons the discussion around this trade was so negative is because even those who had come around to the trade talked them into packages like Verdugo, Downs, Ruiz, and Ferguson or something along those lines, which was clearly not in line with where the league valued Mookie Betts. Some people set the expectation too high so the reality seemed a lot more disappointing. I think a lot of you are doing that again with leaving the door open to the possibility that Betts could sign here again in 2021. It's probably not going to happen. Just brace yourself for the possibility. I'd love it if it did but I'd say the odds of that are 10%, at best. Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. Well, when Babe Ruth played, he wouldn't have been allowed to leave via Free Agency the next year - or any year. Nobody loves trading Mookie, but he made it clear he wanted to test free agency. And the Mookie part had less to do with money than getting nothing in return when the farm is so weak there's nobody there to step up. Price was about the money. If you cannot see this was best for the long term health of the team, albeit a step back in 2020, then I'm sorry. But feel free to pick another favorite team. I mean, they'll disappoint you, too, eventually. No reason to stay here and keep whining about the Sox, though.
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Post by kevfc89 on Feb 9, 2020 20:13:35 GMT -5
Wow that sucks for Angels fans. they were supposed to get Joc, Stripling, and Pages for what looked like a salary dump by the Dodgers. Also, Joc lost his arbitration case in between all of this so I wonder if that factored into the Dodgers decision.
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Post by grangerdanger413 on Feb 9, 2020 20:15:05 GMT -5
Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. Well, when Babe Ruth played, he wouldn't have been allowed to leave via Free Agency the next year - or any year. Nobody loves trading Mookie, but he made it clear he wanted to test free agency. And the Mookie part had less to do with money than getting nothing in return when the farm is so weak there's nobody there to step up. Price was about the money. If you cannot see this was best for the long term health of the team, albeit a step back in 2020, then I'm sorry. But feel free to pick another favorite team. I mean, they'll disappoint you, too, eventually. No reason to stay here and keep whining about the Sox, though. Could not agree more. You never want to trade your franchise player but it would’ve been much much worse to keep both and let mookie walk and end up with a 4th rd pick. And suffer even worse penalties at that
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2020 20:15:44 GMT -5
Nah, we're negative about it because our franchise is idiotic for traded a 27 year old MVP. The best homegrown player we've developed in half a century. All in the name of saving our billionaire owner money. Such a joke. Dumbest decision this franchise has made since selling Babe Ruth. Mentioned this a couple times, but Betts' career OPS away from Fenway is .858 and Verdugo had a higher dWAR than Betts last year. It's not outside the realm of possibility that the Sox got the best player in this deal on top of everything else. I'd give it until May or June to see how everyone adapts to their new environments before grading this trade. lol no. That's literally the worst take in the history of this website.
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