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Post by texs31 on May 6, 2020 8:25:57 GMT -5
Like the Bruins thread, who knows if how much more we have to include in the Season Thread. This article (the link is Part II), tbh, is part Playoff discussion and part Offseason but if you have an Athletic sub, it's a good discussion between John Hollinger and Jay King). theathletic.com/1793164/2020/05/06/state-of-the-celtics-down-on-the-rookies/?source=emp_shared_articleThe offseason piece of the discussion suggests that Boston use some assets to get a traditional 4 (Hollinger shoots high on a trade for John Collins and offers a more reasonable suggestion in Nemanja Bjelica). Hopefully, there is more to discuss in the season thread but there is a lot of information (FA rankings, Draft, etc) coming out in preparation for the offseason. |
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Post by philarhody on May 11, 2020 15:59:16 GMT -5
John Hollinger has Paul Reed of DePaul as his best defender on his board and said he is shocked that teams currently only have a 2nd round grade on him. Also saying that he really likes this draft from 10-40. Sees a lot of rotational players in that area of the draft.
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2020 14:48:09 GMT -5
Bleacher Report is doing a Fake Offseason (trades this week and then a draft this weekend - not doing FA signings) which I thought would be a fun exercise.
Then the C's GM traded Marcus Smart and Robert Williams for Clint Capela and I lost all interest. This obsession to get a "real big" has infested the C's guy on that site too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 13, 2020 11:31:27 GMT -5
I need more data on Paul Reed. He sounds interesting, yet is he a tweener? It really depends if you believe in his shot.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 15, 2020 11:58:19 GMT -5
I think the we need a big thing is responsible. Kinda thing that pops up in the playoffs more than the regular season. Kinda hard to pull a Warriors without that type of firepower and they still had Green an all NBA type defender.
The draft is currently crazy. Guys are all over the place, which does point to it being a rather deep draft. I mean Tre Jones who most had going on the 20s last year before he pulled out is now in the 2nd round. He didn't seem to have a bad season did he?
It will be interesting, given we have three picks Danny can do what he did last year. Go for some home runs while also taking some safer picks. The draft is loaded with bigs of all different types.
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Post by philarhody on May 18, 2020 6:39:23 GMT -5
I need more data on Paul Reed. He sounds interesting, yet is he a tweener? It really depends if you believe in his shot. I think the Shot with Reed would be a bonus. Think of him as a Daniel Theis with a handle Edit: yes, a tweener in a good sense |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2020 13:56:23 GMT -5
Can he add another 25 pounds of muscle? Reed is 220, Theis is 245 and even then true centers destroy him down low. That's really the question with him, is he close to maxing out? He was 6'5" 170 as a high school recruit, so he's already had a massive growth spurt and added a ton of muscle. Heck a bunch of places list him 210-215.
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Post by texs31 on May 19, 2020 11:00:30 GMT -5
O'Connor has his draft guide update to the Top 50. Includes reports on some of the guys talked about here and in the season thread. nbadraft.theringer.com/ |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 19, 2020 13:13:26 GMT -5
I like the Ringer, very detailed scouting reports. Yet wow a bunch of guys all over the place. This is either a crazy deep draft that has very little separation from after the lottery to middle second round or without NBA input these guys don't have a clue. After looking at my normal five plus sources there is craziness. The Minny big man is top 10 on some, then mid to late first, then the Ringer has him in the 40s. RJP guy isn't top 50? Veron Carey Jr. Is another guy all over the place.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on May 21, 2020 7:23:04 GMT -5
I like the Ringer, very detailed scouting reports. Yet wow a bunch of guys all over the place. This is either a crazy deep draft that has very little separation from after the lottery to middle second round or without NBA input these guys don't have a clue. After looking at my normal five plus sources there is craziness. The Minny big man is top 10 on some, then mid to late first, then the Ringer has him in the 40s. RJP guy isn't top 50? Veron Carey Jr. Is another guy all over the place. There was no consensus long before the season shut down. Everyone at the top still has so many questions, and obviously no one could complete the book on themselves. Chad Ford (back at it now) compared this draft to 2013, where you might not know the #1 pick until it's called, and there's plenty of talent within the draft for some long-term stars to emerge, but no one knows which ones they will be. I have dynasty fantasy basketball stock in Tyrese Haliburton, who improved his shooting percentage (though not his mechanics) and is a solid playmaker, gets rebounds at 6-5, and has solid D potential. He won't be the top pick but I think he'll thrive as a 1B with a more natural scorer, and could end up as what people hoped Lonzo would become. I doubt he'd make it to the Memphis pick, and would just add another guy who should have the ball in his hands. But I like him. |
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2020 8:25:26 GMT -5
Lot of people are thinking NYK should go Haliburton (assuming they stay at 6).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 23, 2020 15:08:30 GMT -5
So I watched a ton of Paul Reed tape. He makes plays, heck a highlight tape looks him look like a top ten pick. Yet his body, he's a string bean and already gets out muscled in College. He'd have crazy trouble with even Tatum's physical level right now. He has an ugly shot, I can't stress that enough. Those combos are why he's where he is ranking wise. He's a great jump athlete, he's very athletic for his size, yet he's not a complete freak athlete either. Maybe it's because he needs more muscle or power, yet something is missing. Yet he's around the ball a lot, is quick for a big and can dribble. A lot of his plays are on the move, not your typical feed the big in the post guy. Seems like a smart player who uses his skills to the best of his abilities.
I think he's a good fit for our offense and defense. The question really is can he get bigger and stronger? You can see the upside, at the same time his body type has to worry you. There's not many guys in the NBA like him. He's kinda like Bol from last year in that he's so skinny it makes you question his upside. Yet if you can develop his body and game he could be a crazy unique player. Seen his weight listed from 210 to 220, he looks 210 yet maybe his long legs and arms are deceiving. You'd feel better about him if his shot was better and he could play the 3/4 and not the 4/5. I'd also slightly worry that he's a junior and how that experience is helping him. Though he is going for a junior.
Overall I can see how people disagree on him. It's basically looking at what he did versus projecting him in the NBA. You need a lot less projection with a guy like Oturu who's a monster compared to Reed. I think he's ranked right about where he should be end of the first, early second in a deep draft.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 23, 2020 15:27:21 GMT -5
I also looked at Reggie Perry who NBA draft.net has going #20 in it's recent mock, while listed #50 on the big board. He's a good athlete, has good production and plays with some power. After watching his highlight tape I was going to say he should be a late first round target. Can score inside, can create off the dribble and is mobile at 6'9" and 250 pounds. Yet after watching a bunch more tape he has issues. Dribble while good for a big gets him in a ton of trouble with turnovers. Doesn't have the jump ability or certainly doesn't show it as much as Reed does. Played a ton in the post and got doubled team repeatedly. Has a very good running hook, but not crazy skilled in the post. Has a nice looking shot,yet very bad shot selection. Has decent length, but nothing special.
Should have stayed in school. He just needs to work on a lot of things. Yet if he's a hard worker that can learn and adjust he could become an NBA player. Likely goes undrafted or late second. Kinda highlights watching just highlights vs actual in game tape. Makes you question his smarts frankly. He's got some upside, yet I don't see it being high enough to warrant the needed development time. He's like the anti Grant Williams.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 3, 2020 18:23:21 GMT -5
So I watched a lot of Vernon Carey Jr. tape. I'm highly confused as I thought he'd be more of a Greg Monroe type player. Not sure I agree with ranking his athletic ability a 7 out of 10. He's a much better athlete than Stewart. Heck he's really good for his size. He can score inside, run the floor, great at rim running, battles down low and has a nice looking shooting stroke for a big. He's not close to a guy who can't switch and be a major liability on D. Comp of Sabonis on the Pacers seems fairly close. He has the tools to be a good starter in this league. I mean the guy can take people off the dribble already. Seen a Vin Baker comp and I think that also fits. Mocks that have him in the second round are crazy.
Now he needs a bunch of work like any freshman. Is he a hard worker that can adjust? That's the million dollar question with him. His passing isn't that good and he's used to playing as a low post scorer which we don't see a ton of anymore. He just has a lot more upside than I expected because he's a much better athlete than I thought.
He's in play for me at 17 if he's a bright guy that is going to work hard and put in the work. Has to be willing to adjust as his role will be much different in the NBA unless the Celtics change their plays. I don't see how he last to the end of the first unless he has major red flags and you think he's unwilling to learn and adjust. The guy w like be top five pick 20 years ago. Very similar to Wendell Carter from a few years ago that went in the lottery.
You see a ton of Stanley watching Carey tape. You see why RJP likes him, yet I don't get why he doesn't like Carey.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 4, 2020 0:08:36 GMT -5
So I watched tape on Daniel Oturu. He's an athletic big that moves very well. Carey can move well for his size, Oturu is another level. He can legit guard college guards on the perimeter and athletic enough to block their shot even if they get by him slightly. Call it old school KG lite type stuff. Good shooter, being able to take and make shots at all three levels. A much bigger part of his game compared to a Carey. Carey can do it and look good doing it, but doesn't do it a ton. Oturu takes a bunch of mid range jumpers. Can create off the dribble for drives and jumpers. What I really like was seeing him involved in the high post with ball movement. Type of thing the Celtics have their bigs down lot of. Move the ball and set screens.
The negatives he turns it over a lot. His dribble needs work. He's very good for a big and certainly a center. Yet it's his bread and butter. Not the strongest guy, College Bigs can back him down in the post a ton. Much more of a use his size, quickness and athletic ability than a true beast down low. Will be interesting if he can add that without losing his quickness.
Most ratings have Carey and Oturu close in the rankings. Be it top 20s, early second or crazy late like the list RJP posted. I see why as both are very skilled, yet very different bigs. Carey is more old school with some new school skills. Oturu is a new age big in my opinion. Carey was a pleasant surprise, a guy who should have a long NBA career. Oturu is the better fit for today's NBA on this Celtics team. Yet some GMs might be afraid he's kinda a tweener. I bet Carey can bully him in the post right now, the upside is huge. The right coach and if he's very teachable watch out. He's not a true center currently and not a true small ball five. Yet he might just be the perfect combo. A big that defends enough against both and can score in a bunch of ways to be able to play him 30 plus minutes a night. I love the guys upside. Oturu is going to be a very good player for a longtime in this league if he has his head on straight.
What am I missing about this class? I don't get how Noah Vohleh can go top ten and Oturu is a 2nd round pick even today by a recent SI mock.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 4, 2020 1:00:46 GMT -5
Jalen Smith is a unique player. He can shoot, is very athletic and makes some highlight reel plays. Yet the announcers named sticks because his lower half literally looks like two sticks. He's much more powerful than you'd expect given his size, yet it looks like a huge issue. Embiid might hurt him lol. He was used in a kinda weird way given his talents. Taking three's and lobs basically. He had flashes of good drives, yet you don't see a ton of it.
I must be losing it because comps were PJ Brown plus and Ibaka. I don't see either of those, those guys had way more power and strength. Much more Channing Frye in my opinion.
He needs a ton of work on defense. The tools are there for him to be a very switchable player, given his quickness he let way too many guys blow by him though. Literally left multiple guys open for threes while guarding there to run into the paint to get blocks.
I see why people like him, heck I see the upside. Yet not my cup of tea given I hate bigs who can't dominate the paint. Has upside, not the type I want to bet on though. Yet I could be dead wrong on this one, he's that confusing of a big to grade. I'd rate him third behind Oturu and Carey. Not many guys in the NBA do much with his type of frame, yet not many that have that frame have his skill set either.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 4, 2020 12:47:50 GMT -5
Aug 25th Lottery and Oct 15 Draft per Woj.
Follow up from Shams is that no matter what happens in the pre-play in games, Lottery Order for the teams not making the playoffs will be based on standings as of today.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 4, 2020 17:26:31 GMT -5
Aug 25th Lottery and Oct 15 Draft per Woj. Follow up from Shams is that no matter what happens in the pre-play in games, Lottery Order for the teams not making the playoffs will be based on standings as of today. That’s so crazy. I definitely don’t even want to talk about the draft now for a bunch of months. What a bummer of a draft to have to marinate with for and extra 5 months. On the plus side, I like that Danny’s gonna have extra time to sort through the huge tier 3 of players |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 4, 2020 20:50:17 GMT -5
The good news is that if this works, we'll have bball and/or Draft/FA and then bball again with very little interruption.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 6, 2020 2:39:36 GMT -5
I think the Grizzly's make out like Bandits here. They had 17 games left and it was crazy hard, likely the hardest schedule left. They just lost Jonas to injury and Winslow was still injured. Now just eight games and both should be healthy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2020 4:55:28 GMT -5
www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/2020-nba-mock-draft-50-celtics-load-size-three-picks?b#slide-38I don't have much respect for Blakely when it comes to mocks. I can certainly see the McDaniels pick. Ainge has a history of going after high recruits that don't have great freshman seasons. The guy sounds a lot like Brown, just with a body that needs a lot more work. Not a fan of Smith, I'd probably gamble on Reed or look at a PG. I mean Danny isn't taking three bigs. Pokusevski sounds like an interesting guy. Rated about that position. Thin as can be, yet only 18. Yet like OMG he picks three bigs and all three are thin as can be and need to add serious amounts of weight and muscle. Not exactly what you expect from a GM that builds defensive teams. Danny also isn't afraid to just draft a ton of guys and let them compete in camp. If this is the way the board falls, I'm trying to trade up for Oturu or Carey. Guys that look like they can play rotation minutes next year. Oturu and Carey might be the two most underrated players currently in the draft.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2020 17:13:52 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Aug 20, 2020 11:40:00 GMT -5
There were a bunch of draft related posts in the season thread but I'm going to put this hear and let mods/others move stuff if needed/desired.
J Wasserman (Bleacher Reports) has some "rumors" based on what he's hearing. Keeping in mind that what is spread can be done so for VERY different reasons, here are some of the tidbits:
- Avdija ranked higher than LaMelo for some
- Wiseman graded as late-lottery
- Jalen Smith over Okongwu - some feel skill set was masked at Maryland
- Okoro compared to MKG
- Patrick Williams as a sleeper to be the top prospect - 6'8", powerful and youngest player in draft
- International Scouts who say Killian Hayes is top 5, College scouts who "don't see it"
- Anthony Edwards having lowest BBall IQ for ANY potential #1 in memory
- RJ Hampton falling
- Haliburton #2 PG (likely in top 10)
- Tyrell Terry up to 6'3" in shoes
- Saddiq Bey last lottery.
Lottery is tonight btw.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 20, 2020 12:15:06 GMT -5
Related to the post in the other thread, why would O'Connor post a lottery-only mock on the morning BEFORE the lottery?? Seems odd.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 20, 2020 12:40:26 GMT -5
So he's putting Jalen Smith in the lottery? I'm not surprised given the current NBA. Yet I didn't see him being masked on tape, actually they used him perfectly. Most Colleges teams would stick a guy with his size under the basket, they allowed him to play on the perimeter. I'm not a huge fan, yet he was easily the hardest guy to project long-term of the centers I watched tape on.
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