2020 Celtics Offseason

I think the Sixers get a much better offer. If I was GM and told it had to be the Celtics, I'm taking a Smart, Theis, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Langford plus all three first this year package over Hayward. Still think some team steps up with a good young player and better package than we can or are willing to offer.

I don't get the fire Doc stuff, when all that stuff came out about Paul George basically being an Irving and not buying into team ball.

Doc is a good coach and if the Sixers get him, that's a huge upgrade over Brown.

The Rockets signed Chris Paul to a massive four year deal and dealt him after the first year. That's the most recent example I can think of.

You can trade him, it's more what can you get and should you trade him?

I thought Jordan was crazy for letting his one star walk. Well maybe he knew that his knee would be an issue going forward.

Why? They basically have to trade one of their young bigs. Rumors say it's Turner who is most likely to get traded. I don't see how they get more than Hayward, who likely looks better with a bigger role. Oladipo is talking about leaving, so getting some picks and young players for him makes sense. That actually makes a lot of sense if the two teams want those guys and are willing to pay the price. I'd guess it includes Langford, Grant or Robert. Maybe a combo, then 14th and say 30th pick. Then giving Oladipo a big new contract and locking in a set core with a massive tax bill. I'd have to think about it and look into Oladipo's medicals. It's a crazy interesting idea though.

I really want shooting - like legit shooting from this draft. Give me Terry or Nesmith at 14 if they are still there. Immanuel Quickly or Marcus Howard in the 2nd round...

Question is will Brad be able to live with their poorer defense early enough to build their confidence as shooters like Spo did with Robinson and Herro?

You're in luck because the draft is filled with it. Searched top shooters in draft and found three lists that weren't close to the same. There are great shooters all the way into the second round.

I really need athletic numbers on Bane, who kinda looks like Grant Williams, yet is a SG. As long as he's decent he could be a good late first round target.

Here's the thing though, there are good shooters and their are great shooters. Robinson is crazy elite and Herro isn't far behind and he can create his own shot. Yeah Stevens plays those guys. Herro looked good on D and Robinson played good team D. You'll play if you're that good and not a major liability on D. The biggest issue is finding guys that good. A guy like Robinson only plays because he's so crazy elite, because he doesn't do anything else. It's not just the shooting either with him, he's crazy good at moving slightly to get open looks. A pump fake to get a guy airborne, then side step him for a great look. You just don't see a bunch of guys do what Robinson does. His footwork is very good.

If I was Danny I don't go away from my formula though. I'd take the next Herro at 14, I wouldn't try to find the next Robinson there. Herro could turn into an all-star, Robinson never will be one unless he adds a ton to his game.

I really, really like Bane. He would be an absolute steal at 26 and honestly would consider going for him at 14 because I'm worried about one of the mid 20s teams grabbing him, like Philly. Hes a top 15 player in this draft for me. He's the best 3pt volume shooter in this class (44%) and a dog on defense. Fits the Celtics system to a T and could easily be the scorer off the bench that we desperately need, with good defense too. 

For me, a dream draft would be: Upside guard at 14 (Tyrese Maxey, Kira Lewis, or Cole Anthony), Desmond Bane at 26, and Xavier Tillman at 30. Tillman is also a beast on defense and setting screens, IMO a better version of Theis with a high BBIQ who would fit this team great. But really nervous about letting Bane, a beast 3 pt shooter and defender coming off screens, getting away from us if we wait too long. Also really like Bolmaro, reminds me of Manu and an incredibly underrated on-ball defender. Rare in combination with his playmaking ability. I also think Bane/Bolmaro/Tillman would be a great draft for us.

Others in this class I like: Killian Hayes (one stud in this class IMO), Vassel, Patrick Williams, Okongwu, Isaiah Joe (3 & D), Tyrell Terry, Leandro Bolmaro, Killian Tillie (if he can stay healthy), Malachi Flynn, Grant Riller, Tyler Bey

Players I do not like relative to their projected draft spots: LaMelo, Toppin, Avdija, Wiseman, Edwards, Nesmith (think the 3pt is small sample noise + not amazing in other facets), Saddiq Bey, Isaiah Stewart, Zeke Nnaji

Who are you all targeting or liking in this class? What would you like to see the Celtics do?

I haven't come close to finishing my complete list and likely won't till I get athletic numbers.

A few things off recent tape I watched. Tillman isn't a better Theis, he's more Horford recently, not Horford when he was young. His testing numbers will be big for his draft slot. Theis moves much better, Tillman is much stronger. Theis challenges everything, Tillman stays on his feet more. Not as switchable.

Zeke is thin, but bouncy. Maybe the best big shooter based on form I've watched. He didn't shoot many three's and didn't shoot it well. Yet I'd expect that to change. He looks for those 10-16 foot jumpers and is crazy confident in his shot. He's going to struggle against strong athletic bigs in the post though.

Isaiah Joe might be Duncan Robinson. Heck maybe Jamal Crawford the shooter meets Duncan because he creates three's off the dribble more than Robinson. Almost 11 three attempts a game. Yet what else does he do?

Bane has a funky looking shot and is a senior. Two likely reasons he's not rated higher. He's more impressive than Cam Johnson last year in my opinion. He does more. I really like him, yet his upside is limited. Yet the space of the NBA and not being a focal point could help him. Great shooter, good on drives, good passer, plays hard, not close to an elite athlete, yet not Grant Williams either. Yet plays like Grant Williams, hard, smart, though, team ball. At 14 your passing on more upside, yet it isn't crazy. If he tests well he'll rise up rankings.

Woodard is raw, yet a crazy good athlete with nice form on his three point shot. In today's NBA he could be a very good small ball center. Think Draymond Green lite without the passing. 6'7" 230 with a 7'1" wingspan. He could become a guy like Theis. Yet that's a lot of projection. FT% doesn't match crazy three point percentage. Yet with his form he should be good for a big.

This draft is crazy deep and has a little bit of everything. I certainly don't every recall a draft with more shooters than this draft. Likely seeing the effects of the game changing as High School and College starts to match the NBA. G
I wish the GMs luck because this draft is going to get a few fired. Why did you pass on him and him type crap is almost guaranteed. Good players who will play in the NBA are going undrafted. You could easily get multiple long-term starters in the second round. It's a great draft to have four picks. Yet crazy hard to separate these guys. Yet it's strong in three areas we need,scoring bigs, PGs and shooting in general.

Jaylen Smith was easily the hardest big I've watched tape on. He does a bunch of things you like, but a bunch you don't. You worry that his upper body is fully developed, yet his legs are skinny as heck. Very disappointed in his lateral movement, let guys easily drive by him repeatedly. Yet he's athletic, shoots the three well, rebounds and blocks shots. Something's just off when I watch him.

So I watched a bunch of tape on PGs expected to go in our pick range. It's limited mostly highlight take though. Don't have the time to watch full game tape on everyone. So this is more what they do well.

Terry- Quick release, a very good shooter, highly skilled. Got some Doncic type stuff, euro type skill level for his age. Maybe the most skilled guy, yet Anthony might be better if you watch more tape. The bad he's skinny, doesn't seem to have a big wingspan and easily the worst athlete at PG I watched. Not a big run jump guy and doesn't just blow by guys. It's all skill, yet shows the ability to create jumpers off the dribble.

Anthony is easily the best combo of skill and athlete of the group I watched. Not much he can't do. Easiest to project and safest player I watched. His issues are what have been reported, is he an Irving type guy or can he play team ball and be coached? Would be surprised if he's there at 14 frankly.

RJ Hampton- playing in pro league, so it likely highlights his rawness, yet he's raw. At the same time he's crazy quick, huge and easily had the most athletic showing. Needs to add weight and his shooting issues are well noted. Yet he's like Robert Williams, few players have higher upsides if you can get him to come close to reaching his. He could be a two way monster, yet carries a lot of risk.

Maledon- He's big can drive and shoot a little. Nothing jumps out, no Hampton type quickness or explosive plays. Yet playing in a pro league. You need to dig deeper.

Mannion- Was similar to Maledon, nothing jumped out. Good willing passer, yet expected more of a Rondo type passer and didn't see that. Can drive some, yet seems to want to shoot it, so he really depends on fixing that. Likely need to watch more tape. Will point out he played with a massive amount of talent, three guys could go in the first and he certainly helped Zeke get so many easy buckets. Just expected more from a guy who was such a high recruit.

Riller- Who NBA Draft Room is higher on than most, was likely the most surprising guy I watched. Now he's a small school guy, so not great competition. Yet he does it all on the offense side. You see shades of a slightly bigger Van Vleet type player. You want a bench PG that can score, pass, create he looks to be that. He's a senior and only an okay athlete, yet he's very skilled. One of the more skilled PGs in the draft.

Lewis- A speedy type player, still semi raw. Needs to add weight. Yet one of the bigger upside guys I watched. His big wingspan, shooting ability and creating are a nice package. Yet he's not close to Terry, Anthony or Riller in ability shooting wise. More leave him open he knocks it down, he's a take it to the basket guy.

Dotson- Is like Lewis, a speedy drive type guy, he just doesn't have the wingspan. Now he took harder shots than Lewis, much more taking shots off the dribble. He's not as raw. He should be a decent shooter in the NBA. Just like Lewis he gets into the paint with ease. Limited upside due to size and Wingspan. Yet there's a lot to like. The Darren Collision comps fit, maybe not quite the defender he is.

Hagans- Is a guy I love. Take him and Terry, mix them together and you likely have the #1 pick. He's like Rondo lite, good not crazy wingspan and good not crazy good passer. Athletic, great defender, yet like Rondo likely gambles too much. Good driver, not a crazy speed guy like Hampton, Lewis or Dotson, yet uses his size to get good looks. Can take and make jumpers off the dribble, yet shooting is his biggest weakness. Good form, good FT shooter, yet kinda like Rondo in that he's a pass first PG that doesn't look for his own shot. Yet much better form on his jumpers than Rondo. Played with a lot of talent and three guard offense at Kentucky. He's raw in a bunch of areas, yet has good upside. Ideal type two way player and second round target for me. You dream of watching him and Smart playing D together. Been called maybe the best defender or guard defender in the draft.

What do you want at PG? Highest upside, safest guy is Anthony. Best combo of ready, skill, athlete and D. Terry could be the best offensive guy long-term, yet D will be an issue and he might struggle driving in the NBA. Hampton is the raw swing for the fences crazy upside guy. If you think like Danny, he wants athletes, wants to play D and guys that are skilled I'd say Anthony, Hampton and Hagans are targets he'd love. Maxey is more combo guard, yet he fits because of his D. Terry is the swing for the fences to get a Curry/Young type player. Lewis might be a wildcard type middle ground guy if you think he adds weight. Riller could be a very good bench scorer, heck he's gotta make my sleeper list and his combine numbers will be huge.

I believe Terry’s NBA shooting will be elite. With minimal core strength, he can snipe out of dho’s, p&r‘s and catch and shoot situations with equal aplomb. His finishing package is nasty, as he can really use angles and leverage to finish around bigger, more athletic defenders. However, he is not currently explosive enough nor a good enough ball handler to get to the hoop with any real consistency.

Defensively, I’ve seen him play tenaciously and with heart. But I’ve also heard recent reports of him taking off key rotations late in close games. I’d imagine this has more to do with his lack of strength showing up in exhausting moments than effort/character. That’s good because he’s going to need all the effort in the world to gain enough strength to play 82 games a year plus playoffs.

Out of all the players you’ve cited, Riller is easily the best offensive player now, and possibly has the highest offensive ceiling, with the possible exception of Terry. He can really fill it, although he doesn’t create much for others. Riller didn’t play much defense, was in a bad league, and is going to be 23. So there’s that.

Anthony’s NBA skill is pull-up shooting. Without it, he doesn’t get drafted. I don’t understand the comparisons to Kyrie Irving (not just you Umass, I’ve seen these before) because Cole is sort of stiff and couldn’t finish in the ACC and Kyrie might be the craftiest finisher ever. I also hate the way he lands from dunks and finishes. Vicious, stiff landings.

Lewis has to be a secondary creator, because, as fast as he is in a straight line, he has real issues shaking players off the dribble. But I think he will be fine hitting open shots, will be a problem on close outs, and could be a monster in transition.

Outside of Hampton who I talked about a few posts earlier in this thread, I don’t think I want any of these players at 14 save for maybe Lewis and MAYBE Anthony so long as there is some sort of medical excuse for his inability to finish at the rim in college.

I listened to the first two ceiling podcasts. You get some good information, I agree with a bunch of it. Yet they don't account for out of no where type crap that happens every year. Which is why they have a bunch of older guys rated really high. I liked Riller, yet #1 or #2 top scorer ceiling in the whole draft seems crazy. They talk a ton about Bam, yet he's a guy they'd miss on because he's nothing like the guy he was at Kentucky. Good information, I love more information. Yet you have to account for the unknowns when talking Ceiling.  There's no world where Anthony doesn't have a higher ceiling than Riller. Maybe you don't think he reaches it, yet players can gain skills. They can't go from so-so to darn near elite as an athlete.

They act like Jaylen Brown is overrated and can't create. Which seems crazy to me. Let me guess they missed bad on him and can't let it go. He's the perfect example of how athletes can gain skills. He does crap now you never dreamed he'd do when in College. They call Hampton the Brown of the draft, yet have his ceiling end of lottery

I almost would use those guys as a way to find sleepers. Look at Tillie, not their Ceiling as top 14 best in draft. Which is the unicorn of the draft, senior players being better in the NBA than College. The Chandler Parsons type guys are crazy rare. Young guys do it all the time, not many seniors. It's why they fall in the draft.