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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Nov 23, 2020 16:22:35 GMT -5
Some fallout of the Hayward decision.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2020 16:48:34 GMT -5
Robert Williams could use a consistent 18 min a night for 15 straight games. Just to see if he can do it on an every night basis. He is a decent passer and rim runner and shoots an extremely high percentage (I know most of those are dunks and lay-ups.) But we need to find out if he gets it on defense (weakside rotations, Pick-n-roll.), and if he can continue to knock down the 12-15 footer like he was in the bubble. He's only going to improve if he gets regular playing time and he deserves regular playing time. He's likely the best offensive big you have. He only deserves it if he’s healthy which he’s never been. If he’s healthy, I have little doubt he will be player 25+ a night before long. I have questions if he can be healthy. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2020 16:53:55 GMT -5
The delay in the Hayward signing suggests that there are a few moving parts. The first is that Charlotte probably wants the Celtics to take on a salary and not just an exemption to lower their payroll. Second, the Celtics are probably agreeing but want Charlotte to load the contract upfront so they will still get back as large an exemption as possible. Should be interesting how this finishes up. You really don't have much room to front load Haywards deal. He's maxed out at 30% of the cap, which is 109 million if I remember right. So instead of 30, you could make it 33 and then decrease, yet that's about it. If I had to guess, they are trying to get a third team involved. Which then gets interesting, as we could get a piece from another team. Also, the 30m trade exception is too big to really use right? They can’t use it until next offseason and if they use it then it can’t be a sigh and trade because they’d be hard capped and will be way over the tax with Tatum’s extension. Therefore, it would be more in a traditional deal or a deal where they are the 3rd team taking a player into the exception. Either way, i doubt it’s a 30m player. |
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Post by artfuldodger on Nov 23, 2020 17:05:21 GMT -5
Trade exception can be split but not combined. Therefore, the team could potentially add a $10-$15 million dollar player this year and use the rest next year. Considering that teams (with the exception of Charlotte and Golden State) are nervous about their financial situations, you will see teams wanting to shed payroll.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 23, 2020 17:07:14 GMT -5
Couple of notes:
- You don't have to use the whole TPE.
- They can us it in a trade if a player is made available
- They are only hard-capped at the tax this year bc they used the full MLE and even though it's a 2-year deal, that only hard-caps them there for this year (next year, it's just a 9+M contract).
- I think the Apron (where, typically, the hard cap occurs) is usually 6M over the tax line. I haven't seen the math yet on what their cap situation will but I don't think they'll be up against the hard cap. But again, I have to see the math.
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Post by philarhody on Nov 23, 2020 17:29:53 GMT -5
It’s funny, 2 years ago with Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Kyrie, Rozier, Horford people were upset there were too many stars and too many mouths to feed so the pieces didn’t fit. You need to build a team that fits. We are luck that we have our stars in Tatum and Brown with Walker as the complimentary veteran. They have 2 wings now that can play roles and also have the potential to develop into 3rd star type players. At 26 you should be happy as hell if you get a strong role player who fits the team. Again I don’t love the pick, I would have gone Terry because I am really high on him, but let’s see what Pritchard does - the pick makes sense. I personally think that secondary creators/slashers fit really well next to Tatum. Pritchard is not that. He is a primary who needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Watch Tyrell Terry and you see a player who is constantly moving and relocating and hitting the open guy. And then doing the same thing again. Watch Maxey and you see a slashing blur who exploits defenses once they have made adjustments for gravitational forces like Tatum. This is part of the reason why Brown is so effective next to Jayson, because he can exploit tilted defenses without needing the ball-handling or playmaking chops to make plays for himself. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2020 17:54:55 GMT -5
 I was very wrong about Waters - didn’t expect him to be back on a 2way. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 23, 2020 18:35:19 GMT -5
He's only going to improve if he gets regular playing time and he deserves regular playing time. He's likely the best offensive big you have. He only deserves it if he’s healthy which he’s never been. If he’s healthy, I have little doubt he will be player 25+ a night before long. I have questions if he can be healthy. I've seen you and a few others keep saying this. Based on what? His one injury that had him miss 37 games over two years? |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Nov 23, 2020 18:59:00 GMT -5
IT says he is back
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 23, 2020 19:01:05 GMT -5
He only deserves it if he’s healthy which he’s never been. If he’s healthy, I have little doubt he will be player 25+ a night before long. I have questions if he can be healthy. I've seen you and a few others keep saying this. Based on what? His one injury that had him miss 37 games over two years? Not to pile on but I was thinking the same thing. Usually guys with his athleticism are not injury prone, he is built for the rigors of the game. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2020 19:09:46 GMT -5
He only deserves it if he’s healthy which he’s never been. If he’s healthy, I have little doubt he will be player 25+ a night before long. I have questions if he can be healthy. I've seen you and a few others keep saying this. Based on what? His one injury that had him miss 37 games over two years? One injury? Last year: Got a concussion in preseason and set him back from the rotation. bone edema in his left hip missed 12/6/19 - 3/3/20 Also missed a game with and ankle injury in November Year before: Missed summer league after injuring his knee Missed games with back injuries, back tightness, left quad, his knee The guys been hurt constantly and missing games and practices. He needs to stay healthy. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 23, 2020 19:20:49 GMT -5
Nesmith popping right away would be great but their are a bunch of guys who can grow into very solid pieces and R Williams could be at the top of the list with his size and athleticism. My fear with the timelord is at times it seems like he doesn't have a great BB IQ, but I have seen some video lately that refutes that a bit. He is already a good passer for a young big but needs to show more patience on the defensive end to hit his ceiling, which is considerable. It might take some time but he has the raw tools. Grant could also be the guy who is much improved this year. The path might be narrower but keep in mind the C's only had a healthy productive Hayward for hardly one season so his loss is big but not that big based on his unavailability. A healthy all star level Kemba would also go a long way and if the refs ever let Theis play D without calling everything he does a foul it would be nice. Refs always make great defensive players prove it before they allow them to play, Smart went thru it and now gets the respect he deserves on D. Another way for Theis to stay on the floor is for him to stop committing 2+ lazy fouls per game. I do agree that he gets a tough whistle, but some of it is self-inflicted. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 23, 2020 19:35:54 GMT -5
A guy gets elbowed in the head and that's on him? It was last preseason game, he was ready game one of the season. Like OMG almost every player misses some games over a long 82 game season. He's only had one major injury that kept him out long-term.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 23, 2020 19:42:24 GMT -5
Nesmith popping right away would be great but their are a bunch of guys who can grow into very solid pieces and R Williams could be at the top of the list with his size and athleticism. My fear with the timelord is at times it seems like he doesn't have a great BB IQ, but I have seen some video lately that refutes that a bit. He is already a good passer for a young big but needs to show more patience on the defensive end to hit his ceiling, which is considerable. It might take some time but he has the raw tools. Grant could also be the guy who is much improved this year. The path might be narrower but keep in mind the C's only had a healthy productive Hayward for hardly one season so his loss is big but not that big based on his unavailability. A healthy all star level Kemba would also go a long way and if the refs ever let Theis play D without calling everything he does a foul it would be nice. Refs always make great defensive players prove it before they allow them to play, Smart went thru it and now gets the respect he deserves on D. Another way for Theis to stay on the floor is for him to stop committing 2+ lazy fouls per game. I do agree that he gets a tough whistle, but some of it is self-inflicted. He also gets a bunch of so-so fouls. That's his game, contest everything, give up nothing easy in the paint. Given how he plays 100% he needs rest. Which he'll get this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2020 19:58:08 GMT -5
A guy gets elbowed in the head and that's on him? It was last preseason game, he was ready game one of the season. Like OMG almost every player misses some games over a long 82 game season. He's only had one major injury that kept him out long-term. Sorry i was just listing them - I didn’t say they were all his fault nor did I say he’s had a series of major injuries. I mean unless we are talking about pulled muscles most injuries aren’t anyone’s fault but they exist. His rookie year was completely interrupted by a series of injuries. Year 1 he played in 32 of 82 games Year 2 he played in 29 of 72 games And before you say “DNP coaches decision” was a factor in those numbers, they were, but I’d say injures were a bigger factor due to missed time making him not ready to play. At least now he knows the system so small injuries will be less of a factor should they exist. Let’s hope they don’t. Those are just the facts - don’t like it but don’t dispute it. I’ve never said he won’t be able to stay healthy. But he needs to if he wants to take a jump developmentally. You can’t miss practices every few weeks and expect to gain momentum. |
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Nov 23, 2020 21:09:03 GMT -5
Does anyone else create preseason spreadsheets for projected minutes of the roster? No just me? I've been doing it for the past several years. Last year the 2 roster spots where I missed the minutes per game the most was Wannamaker, had him at 5 averaged 19 and D.Theis had him at 8 and he averaged 24, the rest were fairly spot on. One thing that makes this hard to do is how many players play a limited amount of games which increases their minutes/game but I'm trying to project for 240 minutes a game for a full season, 48 for ball handlers, 48 for bigs, and 144 for wings. It's not perfect either as several players go beyond these descriptions such as Smart and Grant Williams, albeit with the latest move he will be limited with big minutes and likely to get most at wing.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 23, 2020 21:17:54 GMT -5
Does anyone else create preseason spreadsheets for projected minutes of the roster? No just me? I've been doing it for the past several years. Last year the 2 roster spots where I missed the minutes per game the most was Wannamaker, had him at 5 averaged 19 and D.Theis had him at 8 and he averaged 24, the rest were fairly spot on. One thing that makes this hard to do is how many players play a limited amount of games which increases their minutes/game but I'm trying to project for 240 minutes a game for a full season, 48 for ball handlers, 48 for bigs, and 144 for wings. It's not perfect either as several players go beyond these descriptions such as Smart and Grant Williams, albeit with the latest move he will be limited with big minutes and likely to get most at wing. I do it a little bit when looking at the roster from year to year. When I look at the minutes and players this year it leads me to believe the 2nd unit will be pretty good. Then again I am always optimistic by nature, I figure why not be when it comes to sports and being a fan. Beats being a negative nellie as a fan. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2020 21:38:34 GMT -5
There is a loud contingent of fans and media who believe it’s Ainge’s fault that he didn’t accept what the Pacers were offering in order to get something in exchange for Hayward. It turns out Ainge simply didn’t like what that was going to be. “I think, really, talking to people and reading the tea leaves as best I could, it really comes down to the Celtics didn’t want Myles Turner,” Lowe said, later adding “I did hear from some teams around the league that the Celtics have done some preliminary research on what Myles Turner’s trade value would have been to them had they acquired him either in this deal or in a separate deal and obviously didn’t like what they saw.” www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/11/gordon-hayward-rumors-boston-celtics-indiana-pacers-offered-at-least-100-million-myles-turner-may-have-been-stumbling-block-report.html |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 23, 2020 23:33:21 GMT -5
A guy gets elbowed in the head and that's on him? It was last preseason game, he was ready game one of the season. Like OMG almost every player misses some games over a long 82 game season. He's only had one major injury that kept him out long-term. Sorry i was just listing them - I didn’t say they were all his fault nor did I say he’s had a series of major injuries. I mean unless we are talking about pulled muscles most injuries aren’t anyone’s fault but they exist. His rookie year was completely interrupted by a series of injuries. Year 1 he played in 32 of 82 games Year 2 he played in 29 of 72 games And before you say “DNP coaches decision” was a factor in those numbers, they were, but I’d say injures were a bigger factor due to missed time making him not ready to play. At least now he knows the system so small injuries will be less of a factor should they exist. Let’s hope they don’t. Those are just the facts - don’t like it but don’t dispute it. I’ve never said he won’t be able to stay healthy. But he needs to if he wants to take a jump developmentally. You can’t miss practices every few weeks and expect to gain momentum. Wait a second, so Robert Williams wasn't a crazy raw center coming out of College? That's exactly what he was, most of those are because he wasn't ready and no one expected that. He was always a what is he in five years type guy, not a Pritchard ready day one guy. So you blaming his four DNPs in the postseason on injuries also? It couldn't have been a match-up thing or game plan right? It's because he's injury prone, got it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 23, 2020 23:43:48 GMT -5
There is a loud contingent of fans and media who believe it’s Ainge’s fault that he didn’t accept what the Pacers were offering in order to get something in exchange for Hayward. It turns out Ainge simply didn’t like what that was going to be. “I think, really, talking to people and reading the tea leaves as best I could, it really comes down to the Celtics didn’t want Myles Turner,” Lowe said, later adding “I did hear from some teams around the league that the Celtics have done some preliminary research on what Myles Turner’s trade value would have been to them had they acquired him either in this deal or in a separate deal and obviously didn’t like what they saw.” www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/11/gordon-hayward-rumors-boston-celtics-indiana-pacers-offered-at-least-100-million-myles-turner-may-have-been-stumbling-block-report.html"reading the tea leaves best I could" lol He admits he doesn't know. It's just his opinion. Which actually goes against what others have said. He admits Danny might have been playing chicken and thought he had more time than he actually did. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2020 6:35:47 GMT -5
Sorry i was just listing them - I didn’t say they were all his fault nor did I say he’s had a series of major injuries. I mean unless we are talking about pulled muscles most injuries aren’t anyone’s fault but they exist. His rookie year was completely interrupted by a series of injuries. Year 1 he played in 32 of 82 games Year 2 he played in 29 of 72 games And before you say “DNP coaches decision” was a factor in those numbers, they were, but I’d say injures were a bigger factor due to missed time making him not ready to play. At least now he knows the system so small injuries will be less of a factor should they exist. Let’s hope they don’t. Those are just the facts - don’t like it but don’t dispute it. I’ve never said he won’t be able to stay healthy. But he needs to if he wants to take a jump developmentally. You can’t miss practices every few weeks and expect to gain momentum. Wait a second, so Robert Williams wasn't a crazy raw center coming out of College? That's exactly what he was, most of those are because he wasn't ready and no one expected that. He was always a what is he in five years type guy, not a Pritchard ready day one guy. So you blaming his four DNPs in the postseason on injuries also? It couldn't have been a match-up thing or game plan right? It's because he's injury prone, got it. We are all on the same team here and are excited for the guy. The point is injuries were a factor in his rookie year and certainly were last year. We can disagree to what extent but we can’t say they didn’t play a role. People who are concerned about that have a right to be and no one has declared him injury prone at this point. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2020 6:39:29 GMT -5
There is a loud contingent of fans and media who believe it’s Ainge’s fault that he didn’t accept what the Pacers were offering in order to get something in exchange for Hayward. It turns out Ainge simply didn’t like what that was going to be. “I think, really, talking to people and reading the tea leaves as best I could, it really comes down to the Celtics didn’t want Myles Turner,” Lowe said, later adding “I did hear from some teams around the league that the Celtics have done some preliminary research on what Myles Turner’s trade value would have been to them had they acquired him either in this deal or in a separate deal and obviously didn’t like what they saw.” www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/11/gordon-hayward-rumors-boston-celtics-indiana-pacers-offered-at-least-100-million-myles-turner-may-have-been-stumbling-block-report.html"reading the tea leaves best I could" lol He admits he doesn't know. It's just his opinion. Which actually goes against what others have said. He admits Danny might have been playing chicken and thought he had more time than he actually did. No one knows and it actually doesn’t go against what others have said. Show me a report that states Danny wanted Turner to be on the Celtics. This says he wanted to flip him and that doesn’t contradict a report of Turner being in a deal. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 24, 2020 7:27:38 GMT -5
Summary: Jeff Teague bad, TT good. Tre Waters is better than Teague right now lol but its a minimum so whatever. Hayward walking bad, but would have been worse to give him that contract lol. Waters is definitely not better than Teague. I wouldn’t call myself a big fan, but he’s good value at $2.5 million and a significant upgrade from Wannamaker. And at 6’3 and a pass-first point guard, he brings a lot of versatility off the bench from a lineups perspective. Meh, I disagree. Teague is a has been who overdribbles the air out of the ball with 0 upside IMO. He's a name. Tre Waters is pretty similar imo with a little less size but much more upside. I mean I hope I'm wrong, just my eval of them both. It continues a worrying trend of not playing upside players in favor of worse veterans (see Robert Williams) versus seeing what we actually have in upside young players. That said, there's no downside to the move really given its a minimum. Could be completely wrong and its a sneaky good pickup. |
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Post by texs31 on Nov 24, 2020 8:41:50 GMT -5
Is "upside" part of the "better right now" evidence?
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2020 9:16:36 GMT -5
Waters is definitely not better than Teague. I wouldn’t call myself a big fan, but he’s good value at $2.5 million and a significant upgrade from Wannamaker. And at 6’3 and a pass-first point guard, he brings a lot of versatility off the bench from a lineups perspective. Meh, I disagree. Teague is a has been who overdribbles the air out of the ball with 0 upside IMO. He's a name. Tre Waters is pretty similar imo with a little less size but much more upside. I mean I hope I'm wrong, just my eval of them both. It continues a worrying trend of not playing upside players in favor of worse veterans (see Robert Williams) versus seeing what we actually have in upside young players. That said, there's no downside to the move really given its a minimum. Could be completely wrong and its a sneaky good pickup. If Kemba is being given maintenance days or misses time with the knee, you do not want Waters playing 25 minutes in his place, you want Teague. |
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