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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 19, 2021 19:56:55 GMT -5
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Post by orion09 on Mar 19, 2021 20:07:09 GMT -5
I've watched every pitch Hill has thrown this year and I love everything about him except the dominance is just not there, at least not yet. Physically looks awesome. Swagger is there. Hard fastball, good slider, elite change. Maybe it's just him being a football player with limited college looks, but there is no way these kids should make as much contact / good contact against him that they have thus far. I'd love to get a look at his pitch data to see what this all looks like under the hood. There's some info here, scouting report is from last year: www.lookoutlanding.com/2020/8/3/21339659/2021-mlb-draft-preview-jaden-hill-mariners-tankity-tank-tank
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Post by RedSoxStats on Mar 19, 2021 20:40:42 GMT -5
Player IP H R ER BB K WP BK HP BF 2B 3B HR XBH FO GO GDP TP ST ERA
Rocker 8.0 3 2 2 2 14 0 0 0 29 1 0 0 1 4 5 0 116 82 0.58
Hoglund 8.0 5 0 0 1 13 1 0 0 30 1 0 0 1 7 4 0 117 82 2.27
Hill 7.1 9 6 6 2 2 0 0 1 32 2 0 1 3 6 12 1 106 67 5.18
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Post by unitspin on Mar 19, 2021 20:47:55 GMT -5
Hill is deff going to be dropping in mocks moving forward. Kumar on the other hand is getting close to cementing himself in the 1 spot.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 19, 2021 21:12:08 GMT -5
There are a few people who have been questioning Rocker a lot and I'm starting to think you might be watching a different pitcher than I am? I have gotten two good looks at him this year and frankly, he looks like the best college pitcher I've seen in a decade.
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Post by southernredsoxality on Mar 19, 2021 21:21:50 GMT -5
There are a few people who have been questioning Rocker a lot and I'm starting to think you might be watching a different pitcher than I am? I have gotten two good looks at him this year and frankly, he looks like the best college pitcher I've seen in a decade. That’s a bit extremist, I would definitely take Cole and Bauer as better draft prospects, and that’s just off the top of my head. Edit: Well I just checked the draft the last 9 years and you might be onto something. The only other guy that could be argued is Appel, even though he turned out to be bust I remember the Astros getting torched for selecting Correa instead of him. So in the last nine years maybe Kumar is indeed the best, but since you said ten, I had to throw out Cole and Bauer in there.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 19, 2021 21:49:04 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 19, 2021 22:34:47 GMT -5
There are a few people who have been questioning Rocker a lot and I'm starting to think you might be watching a different pitcher than I am? I have gotten two good looks at him this year and frankly, he looks like the best college pitcher I've seen in a decade. That’s a bit extremist, I would definitely take Cole and Bauer as better draft prospects, and that’s just off the top of my head. Edit: Well I just checked the draft the last 9 years and you might be onto something. The only other guy that could be argued is Appel, even though he turned out to be bust I remember the Astros getting torched for selecting Correa instead of him. So in the last nine years maybe Kumar is indeed the best, but since you said ten, I had to throw out Cole and Bauer in there. 10 seasons would be 2012 to 2021, so I'll stand by it. Appel looked polished and ready, like a guy who could be in the majors within a year of the draft, but he was never dominant in this way. The appeal with Appel was that he didn't seem to have the same downside as the other guys. Which, we see how that worked out. I actually thought Rodon looked better at his best (especially his sophomore year) than Appel did. And I think there's some similarity between Rocker and Rodon, how they were both kinda the consensus #1 guy for a long enough time that people starting nitpicking their weaknesses.
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Post by tyler3 on Mar 19, 2021 22:38:44 GMT -5
There are a few people who have been questioning Rocker a lot and I'm starting to think you might be watching a different pitcher than I am? I have gotten two good looks at him this year and frankly, he looks like the best college pitcher I've seen in a decade. I’ve been the biggest on here. To me last year and the first three games he looked like a pitcher with one elite pitch. Now he’s commanding his fastball, holding the velocity, adding a cutter, and sprinkle if in the change to lefties. Looks awesome
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Post by tyler3 on Mar 19, 2021 22:39:23 GMT -5
Biggest Kumar hater, man he looks good now
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Post by southernredsoxality on Mar 19, 2021 23:22:24 GMT -5
So let’s say the stars align for the Red Sox and Pivetta/Whitlock/Seabold all have breakout years along with EROD being healthy and good again. Let’s also assume for this scenario that Downs/Duran/Casas are all struggling(it can’t all be good). Would the “ we must draft a pitcher crowd” still be bullish on an arm at 4?
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Post by manfred on Mar 19, 2021 23:30:07 GMT -5
So let’s say the stars align for the Red Sox and Pivetta/Whitlock/Seabold all have breakout years along with EROD being healthy and good again. Let’s also assume for this scenario that Downs/Duran/Casas are all struggling(it can’t all be good). Would the “ we must draft a pitcher crowd” still be bullish on an arm at 4? Yes.
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Post by unitspin on Mar 20, 2021 7:42:20 GMT -5
There are a few people who have been questioning Rocker a lot and I'm starting to think you might be watching a different pitcher than I am? I have gotten two good looks at him this year and frankly, he looks like the best college pitcher I've seen in a decade. I'm the resident Leiter fanboy and a couple weeks ago when ppl were saying he was going to go before Kumar, I was laughing. Kumar stuff is filthy, kid is at his best on the biggest stage as well. If he does not go #1 id be surprised.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,679
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Post by cdj on Mar 20, 2021 10:26:57 GMT -5
So let’s say the stars align for the Red Sox and Pivetta/Whitlock/Seabold all have breakout years along with EROD being healthy and good again. Let’s also assume for this scenario that Downs/Duran/Casas are all struggling(it can’t all be good). Would the “ we must draft a pitcher crowd” still be bullish on an arm at 4? I just want them to pick BPA, idc about position If Kumar falls to 4 you don’t overthink it imo
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Post by chr31ter on Mar 20, 2021 10:34:47 GMT -5
I've watched every pitch Hill has thrown this year and I love everything about him except the dominance is just not there, at least not yet. Physically looks awesome. Swagger is there. Hard fastball, good slider, elite change. Maybe it's just him being a football player with limited college looks, but there is no way these kids should make as much contact / good contact against him that they have thus far. I'd love to get a look at his pitch data to see what this all looks like under the hood. I haven't seen every pitch he's thrown this year, but I've seen a fair amount, including last night's game. I agree - there's a lot to like in terms of stuff and talent. But yeah, there's something missing. Last night, he threw a middle-middle fastball that didn't have any movement to an under-sized, light-hitting utility OF hitting in the #8 spot, and the kid put it in the 15th row of the RF bleachers. He's just so up and down. So yeah - he's talented, but there's no way I'd pick him at #4.
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Post by ramireja on Mar 20, 2021 11:34:20 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 20, 2021 12:12:25 GMT -5
There are a few people who have been questioning Rocker a lot and I'm starting to think you might be watching a different pitcher than I am? I have gotten two good looks at him this year and frankly, he looks like the best college pitcher I've seen in a decade. That’s a bit extremist, I would definitely take Cole and Bauer as better draft prospects, and that’s just off the top of my head. Edit: Well I just checked the draft the last 9 years and you might be onto something. The only other guy that could be argued is Appel, even though he turned out to be bust I remember the Astros getting torched for selecting Correa instead of him. So in the last nine years maybe Kumar is indeed the best, but since you said ten, I had to throw out Cole and Bauer in there. Just a point of information, you're mixing up draft narratives. They took heat for taking Correa 1 instead of Buxton in 2012, signing him for $1.2M less than Buxton signed for and using that money to take McCullers at #41. Worked out ok I'd say. Appel was selected 8th by Pittsburgh that year and didn't sign and the Astros took him the following year in the clusterf- known as the 2013 draft.
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Post by tyler3 on Mar 20, 2021 13:03:17 GMT -5
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Post by kevfc89 on Mar 20, 2021 13:07:36 GMT -5
Well if Rocker and Leiter keep doing what they're doing they'll be one and two in the draft. At least we'll have our pick of among the best position player prospects in that case.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,585
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Post by radiohix on Mar 20, 2021 13:22:39 GMT -5
If I have to take a pitcher at 4, I'll take Hoglund over the 2 Vandy boys: I've watched his last 2 starts, his change up is a real out pitch (in my opinion a RH starter needs an of speed pitch when facing a LH heavy lineup) and his command is (far?) superior to Leiter and Kumar. I'm still riding that Mayer bandwagon though
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Post by foreverred9 on Mar 20, 2021 13:31:02 GMT -5
If the Rangers take Lawlar and Leiter is available at 3, I'm going to really regret that final win last year. It just feels like Kumar and Leiter will quickly move up the ladder in 2022/23.
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Post by tyler3 on Mar 20, 2021 13:35:57 GMT -5
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Post by semperfisox on Mar 20, 2021 14:31:30 GMT -5
Leiter going #1
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Post by southernredsoxality on Mar 20, 2021 14:58:10 GMT -5
That’s a bit extremist, I would definitely take Cole and Bauer as better draft prospects, and that’s just off the top of my head. Edit: Well I just checked the draft the last 9 years and you might be onto something. The only other guy that could be argued is Appel, even though he turned out to be bust I remember the Astros getting torched for selecting Correa instead of him. So in the last nine years maybe Kumar is indeed the best, but since you said ten, I had to throw out Cole and Bauer in there. Just a point of information, you're mixing up draft narratives. They took heat for taking Correa 1 instead of Buxton in 2012, signing him for $1.2M less than Buxton signed for and using that money to take McCullers at #41. Worked out ok I'd say. Appel was selected 8th by Pittsburgh that year and didn't sign and the Astros took him the following year in the clusterf- known as the 2013 draft. Really? I could’ve sworn Appel was the consensus #1 pick that year and fell because he had leverage to go back for another year if he didn’t get his number. I don’t remember anything about Correa vs Buxton, but hey my memory is not perfect so I’ll have to look that up. Also, Jack Leiter... sheesh!
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Post by tyler3 on Mar 20, 2021 16:12:33 GMT -5
Honestly I love the 2 HS SSs Mayer and Lawlar. We don’t have a try SS in the system. Leiter and Rocker look awesome, would take them even with pitchers being risky. Think the top 4 is setting up well for us.
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