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2021 MLB Draft
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2021 11:09:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't expect the biggest Sox guys to surface yet.
Like if you're going to bring Bloom or the national crosscheckers in why wouldn't he go to, say, the SEC tournament and get one-stop shopping on a bunch of guys?
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 11, 2021 11:50:07 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2021 11:55:17 GMT -5
Ugh. Awful.
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Post by tjb21 on May 11, 2021 12:14:27 GMT -5
Brutal news for Gunnar.
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Post by incandenza on May 11, 2021 12:38:31 GMT -5
So. Hoglund at #40?
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Post by tyler3 on May 11, 2021 12:44:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't expect the biggest Sox guys to surface yet. Like if you're going to bring Bloom or the national crosscheckers in why wouldn't he go to, say, the SEC tournament and get one-stop shopping on a bunch of guys? Great point, just have heard other things about orioles and tigers which are above and below. The intel from a couple different sources seems to be Pirates Rangers Leiter, Lawlar what ever order. Detroit loves Mayer but also had a heavy presence to see House. Orioles Gm has also seen House and they Love Mayer, but may go Davis. Red Sox?? Well...I mean Kumar Rocker hasn’t been picked yet so... that’s all I’m saying.
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 11, 2021 12:49:03 GMT -5
I'd be down for that, although you're looking at a similar situation to JT Ginn from last year, which would mean going about ~$1 mill overslot (Ginn signed for $2.9 mill at pick 52 last year).
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Post by jdb on May 11, 2021 12:57:51 GMT -5
Got to admit this is why the debate on position player Vs pitcher is there. There were several posters who are against drafting a pitcher this high because of the additional risk.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 11, 2021 14:26:04 GMT -5
Got to admit this is why the debate on position player Vs pitcher is there. There were several posters who are against drafting a pitcher this high because of the additional risk. This. Especially this year when you consider college pitchers and their workload after a shortened season. Someone like Gunnar has a pitch count over 100 several times this year or you can look at Rocker's IP: 2020: 15 IPs 2021: 74 IPs and counting. Leiter had to be shut down at the last minute last week. Let someone else take the risk with a pick that high, give me the Davis's and the Mayers of the world.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 11, 2021 14:40:14 GMT -5
1967 Draft picks--Interesting to see who the Sox could have drafted at No. 3 Pick Player Team Position Hometown/School 1 Ron Blomberg New York Yankees 1B Atlanta 2 Terry Hughes Chicago Cubs SS Spartanburg, South Carolina 3 Mike Garman Boston Red Sox RHP Caldwell, Idaho 4 Jon Matlack New York Mets LHP West Chester, Pennsylvania 5 John Jones Washington Senators C St. Joseph, Tennessee 6 John Mayberry Houston Astros 1B Detroit, Michigan 7 Brian Bickerton Oakland Athletics LHP Santee, California 8 Wayne Simpson Cincinnati Reds RHP Los Angeles 9 Mike Nunn California Angels C Greensboro, North Carolina 10 Ted Simmons St. Louis Cardinals C Southfield, Michigan 11 Jack Heidemann Cleveland Indians SS Brenham, Texas 12 Andrew Finlay Atlanta Braves OF Sacramento, California 13 Dan Haynes Chicago White Sox 3B East Point, Georgia 14 Phil Meyer Philadelphia Phillies LHP Downey, California 15 Jim Foor Detroit Tigers LHP Ferguson, Missouri 16 Joe Grigas Pittsburgh Pirates OF Brockton, Massachusetts 17 Steve Brye Minnesota Twins 3B-OF Oakland, California 18 Dave Rader San Francisco Giants C Bakersfield, California 19 Bobby Grich Baltimore Orioles SS Long Beach, California 20 Don Denbow Los Angeles Dodgers 3B Southern Methodist University Other notable selections [2] Round Pick Player Team Position 2 27 Vida Blue Kansas City Athletics Pitcher 2 29 Dave Kingman* California Angels Pitcher 2 30 Jerry Reuss St. Louis Cardinals Pitcher 2 39 Don Baylor Baltimore Orioles Outfielder 3 52 Ralph Garr Atlanta Braves Second Baseman 3 56 Richie Zisk Pittsburgh Pirates Outfielder 4 68 Fred Kendall Cincinnati Reds Catcher 4 78 Steve Busby* San Francisco Giants Pitcher 4 80 Steve Yeager Los Angeles Dodgers Catcher 5 96 Dave Goltz Minnesota Twins Pitcher 8 157 Dave Lopes* San Francisco Giants Outfielder 10 189 Lenny Randle* St. Louis Cardinals Shortstop 11 216 Al Hrabosky* Minnesota Twins Pitcher 15 296 Rick Dempsey Minnesota Twins Catcher 20 396 Gary Lavelle San Francisco Giants Pitcher 20 397 Doug Rau* Baltimore Orioles Pitcher 26 503 Dusty Baker Atlanta Braves Outfielder 31 587 Chris Chambliss* Cincinnati Reds First Baseman 32 599 Dan Pastorini* New York Mets Shortstop 43 779 Archie Manning* Atlanta Braves Shortstop 60 924 Steve Rogers* New York Yankees Pitcher * Did not sign It looks like the 2nd round ended up better than the first.
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Post by manfred on May 11, 2021 14:42:05 GMT -5
1967 Draft picks--Interesting to see who the Sox could have drafted at No. 3 Pick Player Team Position Hometown/School 1 Ron Blomberg New York Yankees 1B Atlanta 2 Terry Hughes Chicago Cubs SS Spartanburg, South Carolina 3 Mike Garman Boston Red Sox RHP Caldwell, Idaho 4 Jon Matlack New York Mets LHP West Chester, Pennsylvania 5 John Jones Washington Senators C St. Joseph, Tennessee 6 John Mayberry Houston Astros 1B Detroit, Michigan 7 Brian Bickerton Oakland Athletics LHP Santee, California 8 Wayne Simpson Cincinnati Reds RHP Los Angeles 9 Mike Nunn California Angels C Greensboro, North Carolina 10 Ted Simmons St. Louis Cardinals C Southfield, Michigan 11 Jack Heidemann Cleveland Indians SS Brenham, Texas 12 Andrew Finlay Atlanta Braves OF Sacramento, California 13 Dan Haynes Chicago White Sox 3B East Point, Georgia 14 Phil Meyer Philadelphia Phillies LHP Downey, California 15 Jim Foor Detroit Tigers LHP Ferguson, Missouri 16 Joe Grigas Pittsburgh Pirates OF Brockton, Massachusetts 17 Steve Brye Minnesota Twins 3B-OF Oakland, California 18 Dave Rader San Francisco Giants C Bakersfield, California 19 Bobby Grich Baltimore Orioles SS Long Beach, California 20 Don Denbow Los Angeles Dodgers 3B Southern Methodist University Other notable selections [2] Round Pick Player Team Position 2 27 Vida Blue Kansas City Athletics Pitcher 2 29 Dave Kingman* California Angels Pitcher 2 30 Jerry Reuss St. Louis Cardinals Pitcher 2 39 Don Baylor Baltimore Orioles Outfielder 3 52 Ralph Garr Atlanta Braves Second Baseman 3 56 Richie Zisk Pittsburgh Pirates Outfielder 4 68 Fred Kendall Cincinnati Reds Catcher 4 78 Steve Busby* San Francisco Giants Pitcher 4 80 Steve Yeager Los Angeles Dodgers Catcher 5 96 Dave Goltz Minnesota Twins Pitcher 8 157 Dave Lopes* San Francisco Giants Outfielder 10 189 Lenny Randle* St. Louis Cardinals Shortstop 11 216 Al Hrabosky* Minnesota Twins Pitcher 15 296 Rick Dempsey Minnesota Twins Catcher 20 396 Gary Lavelle San Francisco Giants Pitcher 20 397 Doug Rau* Baltimore Orioles Pitcher 26 503 Dusty Baker Atlanta Braves Outfielder 31 587 Chris Chambliss* Cincinnati Reds First Baseman 32 599 Dan Pastorini* New York Mets Shortstop 43 779 Archie Manning* Atlanta Braves Shortstop 60 924 Steve Rogers* New York Yankees Pitcher * Did not sign It looks like the 2nd round ended up better than the first. Very solid football draft, too.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 11, 2021 14:56:09 GMT -5
Teams that are always at the bottom of the league and thus at the top of the drafting order just prove how inconsequential drafting position is. That being said I really hope the Sox can take advantage of this opportunity to draft a top prospect as it doesn't happen often.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 11, 2021 16:32:56 GMT -5
Got to admit this is why the debate on position player Vs pitcher is there. There were several posters who are against drafting a pitcher this high because of the additional risk. Especially a college pitcher! They just flop early so much. Usually due to arm issues. High in draft high school pitchers are so fickle but you can find college pitchers early ( 6 or above) littered with injury risks or arm issues ( and therefor blown picks)
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Post by ematz1423 on May 11, 2021 17:06:32 GMT -5
Got to admit this is why the debate on position player Vs pitcher is there. There were several posters who are against drafting a pitcher this high because of the additional risk. Especially a college pitcher! They just flop early so much. Usually due to arm issues. High in draft high school pitchers are so fickle but you can find college pitchers early ( 6 or above) littered with injury risks or arm issues ( and therefor blown picks) I may be wrong here but I think the bust rate on early draft pick high school pitchers vs college is worse for high school. That could maybe just be my bias looking back at trey ball as a Sox fan and not exactly being a MLB draft historian.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 11, 2021 18:05:00 GMT -5
Especially a college pitcher! They just flop early so much. Usually due to arm issues. High in draft high school pitchers are so fickle but you can find college pitchers early ( 6 or above) littered with injury risks or arm issues ( and therefor blown picks) I may be wrong here but I think the bust rate on early draft pick high school pitchers vs college is worse for high school. That could maybe just be my bias looking back at trey ball as a Sox fan and not exactly being a MLB draft historian. That’s the word on the street as to why teams don’t pick high school right handed pitchers high in draft. I don’t know much data in top 6 beyond josh Beckett. But I do know college pitchers early tend to have arm issues. 2010- Jameson tailon (hs) injury Drew pomeranz (college) injury Barrett loux ( college) injury 2011- gerrit Cole ( college) elite Danny hultzen ( college) injury bad Trevor Bauer ( college). Elite Dylan bundy ( hs) injury 2012- Kevin gausman ( college) no injury Kyle zimmer (college) elbow injury 2013- mark appel ( college) injury Jon gray ( college) late injury Kohl Stewart ( hs) injury 2014- Brady Aiken (hs) injury Tyler kolek (hs) injury Carlos rondon ( college) injury 2015- Dillon Tate ( college) injury 2016- Ian Anderson (hs) success Riley point (hs) yuck 2017- hunter greene (hs). Arm issues Mackenzie gore (hs). Elite right now Kyle Wright ( college) Vanderbilt no injury Brendan McKay ( college) injury 2018- Casey mize ( college). Good so far So I guess I’m a bit off. More high school pitchers than I thought were taken top 6. 5/13. 5 being successful pitchers with no injury history (college) 2/8. Being successful with no major injuries. ( hs) Side note. In 10 years look at that list. YUCK. Unless you strike gold with a Cole/Bauer/gore/mize type.
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Post by ematz1423 on May 11, 2021 18:17:24 GMT -5
I may be wrong here but I think the bust rate on early draft pick high school pitchers vs college is worse for high school. That could maybe just be my bias looking back at trey ball as a Sox fan and not exactly being a MLB draft historian. That’s the word on the street as to why teams don’t pick high school right handed pitchers high in draft. I don’t know much data in top 6 beyond josh Beckett. But I do know college pitchers early tend to have arm issues. 2010- Jameson tailon (hs) injury Drew pomeranz (college) injury Barrett loux ( college) injury 2011- gerrit Cole ( college) elite Danny hultzen ( college) injury bad Trevor Bauer ( college). Elite Dylan bundy ( hs) injury 2012- Kevin gausman ( college) no injury Kyle zimmer (college) elbow injury 2013- mark appel ( college) injury Jon gray ( college) late injury Kohl Stewart ( hs) injury 2014- Brady Aiken (hs) injury Tyler kolek (hs) injury Carlos rondon ( college) injury 2015- Dillon Tate ( college) injury 2016- Ian Anderson (hs) success Riley point (hs) yuck 2017- hunter greene (hs). Arm issues Mackenzie gore (hs). Elite right now Kyle Wright ( college) Vanderbilt no injury Brendan McKay ( college) injury 2018- Casey mize ( college). Good so far So I guess I’m a bit off. More high school pitchers than I thought were taken top 6. 5/13. 5 being successful pitchers with no injury history (college) 2/8. Being successful with no major injuries. ( hs) Side note. In 10 years look at that list. YUCK. Unless you strike gold with a Cole/Bauer/gore/mize type. That's some solid work you did pulling that all together. I haven't said it yet I don't think but that just reinforces my thought that I'd prefer to stay away from pitcher early due to injury issues more often than not and go with a hitter. On the same end I wouldn't be upset with Rocker or Leiter so I guess long story short I'm indecisive and have no clue what the best route would be haha.
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Post by James Dunne on May 11, 2021 18:38:18 GMT -5
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on May 11, 2021 19:10:04 GMT -5
It looks like the 2nd round ended up better than the first. Very solid football draft, too. Manning was drafted four times by mlb, three when he was in college: Archie Manning Bats: Unknown • Throws: Unknown [[ ?? ]] Draft: Drafted by the Atlanta Braves in the 43rd round of the 1967 MLB June Amateur Draft from Drew HS (Drew, MS), the Chicago White Sox in the 3rd round of the 1970 MLB June Draft-Secondary Phase from University of Mississippi (Oxford, MS), the Kansas City Royals in the 2nd round of the 1971 MLB January Draft-Secondary Phase from University of Mississippi (Oxford, MS) and the Chicago White Sox in the 3rd round of the 1971 MLB June Draft-Secondary Phase from University of Mississippi (Oxford, MS). High School: Drew HS (Drew, MS) School: University of Mississippi (Oxford, MS)
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Post by manfred on May 11, 2021 19:18:13 GMT -5
I guess that list doesn’t look that bad to me. I mean, it is hard to know about some of the more recent guys. But you have a Cy Young, a runner up, and Rondon off to a crazy start this year. Then some decent pitchers like Gray.
I guess you can say, yeah, there was Harper, Machado, etc. But there were also guys like Bubba Starling, Mike Zunino, and Albert Almora. The odds of a bust are lower, but I’d rather have Cole or Bauer than Correa, say. Because as I’ve said before, if you don’t draft Cole, you are going to pay him $30 million a year when he is in his 30s, which is a bad injury risk, too.
I guess my point is... that is a significant enough difference that I would draft a pitcher nervously.... but not enough to dissuade me from a guy who could be a front-line starter. Pick and pray.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 11, 2021 20:38:01 GMT -5
And Carlos rondon did what exactly before he got hurt? I’m absolutely saying Carlos rondon was the wrong pick because of injury. ( 4 years is roughly what it takes a position player to become an established major league player after being drafted. Established meaning cornerstone ). Carlos rondon has never been .... yet... a cornerstone. ( if he keeps this up he will be after this year and we could have had him in off season when he was WAIVED by the white Sox Look I’m just putting every bit of info I could put there. I’ll let others make their own conclusions. If nothing else I’m saying there is HUGE risk of injury and this becoming another trey ball part 2
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Post by dyoungteach on May 11, 2021 20:39:42 GMT -5
I guess that list doesn’t look that bad to me. I mean, it is hard to know about some of the more recent guys. But you have a Cy Young, a runner up, and Rondon off to a crazy start this year. Then some decent pitchers like Gray. I guess you can say, yeah, there was Harper, Machado, etc. But there were also guys like Bubba Starling, Mike Zunino, and Albert Almora. The odds of a bust are lower, but I’d rather have Cole or Bauer than Correa, say. Because as I’ve said before, if you don’t draft Cole, you are going to pay him $30 million a year when he is in his 30s, which is a bad injury risk, too. I guess my point is... that is a significant enough difference that I would draft a pitcher nervously.... but not enough to dissuade me from a guy who could be a front-line starter. Pick and pray. I sure hope we don’t have to do that. But respect your opinion. For some reason I’m sure this argument will be bantered about in Red Sox war room also
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 11, 2021 20:42:49 GMT -5
You can use injury risk as an excuse to never acquire a pitcher ever again. It’s something to consider but it’s far from the end-all-be-all
If they pick Leiter or Rocker I’d have zero complaints
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Post by James Dunne on May 11, 2021 20:43:02 GMT -5
And Carlos rondon did what exactly before he got hurt? I’m absolutely saying Carlos rondon was the wrong pick because of injury. ( 4 years is roughly what it takes a position player to become an established major league player after being drafted. Established meaning cornerstone ). Carlos rondon has never been .... yet... a cornerstone. ( if he keeps this up he will be after this year and we could have had him in off season when he was WAIVED by the white Sox Look I’m just putting every bit of info I could put there. I’ll let others make their own conclusions. If nothing else I’m saying there is HUGE risk of injury and this becoming another trey ball part 2 He got to the majors 10 months after getting drafted and was like a #3 starter: www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodonca01.shtmlThe next three picks were Kyle Schwarber, Nick Gordon, and Alex Jackson. Stop treating pitchers as the only ones who have risks and underperformance. And you don't need to post every single day about how you don't want a pitcher, we all get it.
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Post by manfred on May 11, 2021 20:44:03 GMT -5
I guess that list doesn’t look that bad to me. I mean, it is hard to know about some of the more recent guys. But you have a Cy Young, a runner up, and Rondon off to a crazy start this year. Then some decent pitchers like Gray. I guess you can say, yeah, there was Harper, Machado, etc. But there were also guys like Bubba Starling, Mike Zunino, and Albert Almora. The odds of a bust are lower, but I’d rather have Cole or Bauer than Correa, say. Because as I’ve said before, if you don’t draft Cole, you are going to pay him $30 million a year when he is in his 30s, which is a bad injury risk, too. I guess my point is... that is a significant enough difference that I would draft a pitcher nervously.... but not enough to dissuade me from a guy who could be a front-line starter. Pick and pray. I sure hope we don’t have to do that. But respect your opinion. For some reason I’m sure this argument will be bantered about in Red Sox war room also Oh... I mean abstractly. I am not nearly informed enough to say my view applies to Rocker et al. My view of the draft is... I accept in advance what they do. They are good at this, will make a good choice for good reasons, and then they, like all of us, will be subject to fate.
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 12, 2021 9:29:56 GMT -5
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